(Aug 17) NEW Interdepartmental HEO comp (Serving civil servants only)

brownstove

Everything has gone very quite on here, is there no movement anywhere?

14ccastle

Well I'm in batch 2 for Dublin, and I know clearance is underway for those placed from 70+ (not sure what number they are going up too)

The_Conductor

14ccastle wrote: »

Well I'm in batch 2 for Dublin, and I know clearance is underway for those placed from 70+ (not sure what number they are going up too)

Over order of merit 100

Just an observation- there seem to an abnormal number of people turning down offers- and holding out for regional offers. The Dublin order of merit must be over 1,500 at this stage- but the regionals are much lower- probably somewhere between 600-700 (reflecting the vastly higher number of posts in Dublin).

Given the panel has a lifespan up to Oct 2019- on previous form- what is likely to happen with the regionals? Obviously- its a roll of the dice to turn down a Dublin post- in the hope of a regional offer- but how much of a gamble is it- is what I'm getting at?

brownstove

Seems very unfair that this panel should close in Oct 2019 when regional panels have only just been set up now. And why are all the posts in Dublin anyway, it would not be financially viable for people from the country to move to Dublin for a heo salary and then people have family commitments to consider.I

Marls17

I turned down a Dublin offer in the hope of being placed on the next regional panel for my area! The regional panel is extremely small so I'm hoping that something will pop up in the next 18 months and if not c'est la vie! I had hoped for Dublin Norh but not what was offered and as a result didn't suit so I turned it down.for me personally it's worth the gamble instead of being stuck with a commute I don't want for who knows how long and with little monetary benefits.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Over order of merit 100

Just an observation- there seem to an abnormal number of people turning down offers- and holding out for regional offers. The Dublin order of merit must be over 1,500 at this stage- but the regionals are much lower- probably somewhere between 600-700 (reflecting the vastly higher number of posts in Dublin).

Given the panel has a lifespan up to Oct 2019- on previous form- what is likely to happen with the regionals? Obviously- its a roll of the dice to turn down a Dublin post- in the hope of a regional offer- but how much of a gamble is it- is what I'm getting at?

Marls17

As this is predominantly a Dublin competition I think they should have run 2 separate comps; a Dublin comp and a regional. There is currently a panel of 3 for my regional selection and no positions. Seems to be a pointless panel although I did turn Dublin down in favour of there being movement on the regional so fingers crossed.and I agree the timeline is very unfair.

brownstove wrote: »

Seems very unfair that this panel should close in Oct 2019 when regional panels have only just been set up now. And why are all the posts in Dublin anyway, it would not be financially viable for people from the country to move to Dublin for a heo salary and then people have family commitments to consider.I

The_Conductor

Marls17 wrote: »

As this is predominantly a Dublin competition I think they should have run 2 separate comps; a Dublin comp and a regional. There is currently a panel of 3 for my regional selection and no positions. Seems to be a pointless panel although I did turn Dublin down in favour of there being movement on the regional so fingers crossed.and I agree the timeline is very unfair.

I agree- I think a seperate competition would have been fairer for candidates- however, I can only imagine PAS are tearing their hair out over all the competitions they're running at the moment- it probably has never been as busy as it is now for them..............

When you know that the Dublin cohort are at 1,600 (or whatever) in the order of merit- but the regionals are only at 600- its hard not to despair........... The main movement on a lot of the regionals- seems to be people who are on both the Dublin and a regional county- taking a Dublin post- rather than a regional post coming up.........

Someone in another thread mentioned Departments owing two posts to the Interdep for each internal promotion- is this right? Aka- if there are internal promotions happening- it might have a disproportionate effect on the interdepartmentals- if this is the case?

All-in-all- it does seem rather inequitable..............?

Marls17

Ooh what's the other thread!? Also yes the internals are definitely having a knock on affect to the positions available eg deasp is not in the interdepartmental comp therefore ruling out a lot of locations. It seems that the rest of the country is awash with HEOs and/or HEOs on panels waiting to get out of Dublin. So the internal comps will move a lot out of Dublin and therefore restrict the regional interdepartmental even more so. Catch 22.

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree- I think a seperate competition would have been fairer for candidates- however, I can only imagine PAS are tearing their hair out over all the competitions they're running at the moment- it probably has never been as busy as it is now for them..............

When you know that the Dublin cohort are at 1,600 (or whatever) in the order of merit- but the regionals are only at 600- its hard not to despair........... The main movement on a lot of the regionals- seems to be people who are on both the Dublin and a regional county- taking a Dublin post- rather than a regional post coming up.........

Someone in another thread mentioned Departments owing two posts to the Interdep for each internal promotion- is this right? Aka- if there are internal promotions happening- it might have a disproportionate effect on the interdepartmentals- if this is the case?

All-in-all- it does seem rather inequitable..............?

brownstove

Marls17 wrote: »

Ooh what's the other thread!? Also yes the internals are definitely having a knock on affect to the positions available eg deasp is not in the interdepartmental comp therefore ruling out a lot of locations. It seems that the rest of the country is awash with HEOs and/or HEOs on panels waiting to get out of Dublin. So the internal comps will move a lot out of Dublin and therefore restrict the regional interdepartmental even more so. Catch 22.

How do you mean deasp is not in the interdepartmental comp?

Marls17

brownstove wrote: »

How do you mean deasp is not in the interdepartmental comp?

As far as I'm aware deasp is using their internal competition and not pulling from the interdepartmental as they owe too much to the internal.

stillstandin

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree- I think a seperate competition would have been fairer for candidates- however, I can only imagine PAS are tearing their hair out over all the competitions they're running at the moment- it probably has never been as busy as it is now for them..............

When you know that the Dublin cohort are at 1,600 (or whatever) in the order of merit- but the regionals are only at 600- its hard not to despair........... The main movement on a lot of the regionals- seems to be people who are on both the Dublin and a regional county- taking a Dublin post- rather than a regional post coming up.........

Someone in another thread mentioned Departments owing two posts to the Interdep for each internal promotion- is this right? Aka- if there are internal promotions happening- it might have a disproportionate effect on the interdepartmentals- if this is the case?

All-in-all- it does seem rather inequitable..............?

I rang PAS and was informed that departments are supposed to take from the interdepartmental and internal panels in the ratio 2:1
My bone of contention is though, that it is up to the individual departments to police this rule.
Some departments are definitely filling positions mostly from internal panels and PAS seem to have no say.

Addle

Separate competitions would in effect mean no regional competition and that would cause more problems than it's worth.
Hopefully a lot of retirements by the end of this year (staff taking salary increases into account and waiting) so it should create a lot more vacancies in regional locations.
Hopefully...

Aglomerado

Addle wrote: »

Separate competitions would in effect mean no regional competition and that would cause more problems than it's worth.
Hopefully a lot of retirements by the end of this year (staff taking salary increases into account and waiting) so it should create a lot more vacancies in regional locations.
Hopefully...

Hope so too. It's like groundhog day in my office... Every day I'm asked by someone in the canteen or corridor when's the big move.... No vacancies in my regions just yet!

Addle

Aglomerado wrote: »

Hope so too. It's like groundhog day in my office... Every day I'm asked by someone in the canteen or corridor when's the big move.... No vacancies in my regions just yet!

It was obvious that the current situation was going to arise given the end result of the last panel.
Anyone who really wants the job is foolish to turn down Dublin, IMO.
It's such an unfair application process.
What other jobs are advertised where you don't know where the vacancies are?!
There has to be some sort of forward planning where departments know how many retirements/job opportunities they expect, and so PAS should know how many vacancies to expect.

Aglomerado

It's a long game, even for those of us at the top of the queue!

It's only been a month though, even in the best case scenario, I wouldn't expect to have heard by now.

With 17-18 months to go on the panel I'm optimistic I'll get placed eventually.

I didn't apply for Dublin as I live too far away and would have to rent...and the funny rentals thread in AH is only funny up to a point!!!

The_Conductor

Addle wrote: »

It was obvious that the current situation was going to arise given the end result of the last panel.
Anyone who really wants the job is foolish to turn down Dublin, IMO.
It's such an unfair application process.
What other jobs are advertised where you don't know where the vacancies are?!
There has to be some sort of forward planning where departments know how many retirements/job opportunities they expect, and so PAS should know how many vacancies to expect.

I hear what you're saying- but for a significant number of people, its simply not plausible to take a Dublin post. We all *want* the job(s)- but we have to live too- and a 4 hour daily commute for people- when they're currently working in a local area- and may have small children or other responsibilities- simply isn't fair. There are many many people who it suits to work in Dublin- and great for them- but there are also many of us- who it simply doesn't suit- or is wholly implausible for us.

Of at least as much concern- is the manner in which internally- Departments are actively using the lateral mobility schemes- to get people out of Dublin- when there are people paneled in regional locations- so effectively the regional vacancies are being quenched by people- who took Dublin posts- with the intention of moving back ASAP- despite there people significantly higher in the order of merit locally- who- weren't in a position to take Dublin posts........?

For a lot of people- if you are currently in a regional post- and aren't in a position to take a Dublin promotional post- you are defacto simply not going to get promoted- ever......... Its a brick wall in front of you ever moving upwards- it doesn't matter how good you are, what you have to offer- or how well you did in the competitions- you're stuck- until such time as you somehow manage to work your life around a commute for however long is necessary- before HR move you back to your region again........... Its a game of musical chairs- where you *have* to sit in a Dublin chair for a set period of time- come what may.

I realise that there is never going to be a setup that suits everyone- however, the current setup places unfair handicaps on someone who isn't willing to, or in a position to, spend a significant number of hours on a daily basis commuting- its supposed to be a promotion- and something you look forward to- not a unique form of torture treatment you have to endure- which is what it is for a great many people..........

Addle

I didn't even apply for this competition!
Not that I'd be guaranteed a position on a panel, but I just couldn't see there being vacancies in the regions I'm willing to work.

Aglomerado

Addle wrote: »

I didn't even apply for this competition!
Not that I'd be guaranteed a position on a panel, but I just couldn't see there being vacancies in the regions I'm willing to work.

I've a couple of major urban centres in my regions with a number of large offices in each, so I'm still hopeful.

ParkRunner

I agree it is unfair how the competition has been run in terms of the uncertainty about regional panels. I would have preferred a regional position but took a Dublin post in the hope that a mobility move would come along in the next few years. It’s not ideal but I don’t see them doing as many competitions in the future.

Either way it’s a risky uncertain path taking a Dublin post and hoping for a future move or turning down a Dublin post and betting on a regional post being offered.

Addle

Will HEO positions ever be offered in an open competition?

The_Conductor

Addle wrote: »

Will HEO positions ever be offered in an open competition?

I was going to say 'probably' on the basis that its the only grade that isn't- however, given the nature of the post- and the background knowledge one would be expected to have of the civil service, its structures and practices- in retrospect- there is a strong argument for keeping it as the sole remaining grade that is not open to public application.

Megidje

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree- I think a seperate competition would have been fairer for candidates- however, I can only imagine PAS are tearing their hair out over all the competitions they're running at the moment- it probably has never been as busy as it is now for them..............

When you know that the Dublin cohort are at 1,600 (or whatever) in the order of merit- but the regionals are only at 600- its hard not to despair........... The main movement on a lot of the regionals- seems to be people who are on both the Dublin and a regional county- taking a Dublin post- rather than a regional post coming up.........

Someone in another thread mentioned Departments owing two posts to the Interdep for each internal promotion- is this right? Aka- if there are internal promotions happening- it might have a disproportionate effect on the interdepartmentals- if this is the case?

All-in-all- it does seem rather inequitable..............?

I am new to how things work in Interdepartmental competitions. Correct me if I’m wrong but could you just have put down Dublin and a region to ensure you got an interview (top 600ish) and then get placed for your regional panel out of getting the Dublin interview? If this was allowed to happen, it’s no wonder that so many are turning down Dublin posts, as they never planned on taking a Dublin post in the first place!

The_Conductor

Megidje wrote: »

I am new to how things work in Interdepartmental competitions. Correct me if I’m wrong but could you just have put down Dublin and a region to ensure you got an interview (top 600ish) and then get placed for your regional panel out of getting the Dublin interview? If this was allowed to happen, it’s no wonder that so many are turning down Dublin posts, as they never planned on taking a Dublin post in the first place!

Dublin + 1 region = 1 interview
Dublin gets top 2,600 placed
Regional (everywhere other than Dublin) gets top 580
I.e. you could be in the 20% for Dublin- and not qualify for a regional panel (at all).

Its the one interview for both- and 'Dublin' could be anywhere in Dublin (INIS have taken a fairly interesting cohort of HEOs- as have some locations in South Co. Dublin, Santry and Swords......... So- someone who puts down Dublin- imagining it is likely to be Dublin city centre- could be in for a shock- and someone who aces the regional competition- could end up without being paneled at all (as Departments are using lateral transfers to fill vacancies in the regions- from Dublin- and promoting to Dublin posts- but not regional posts.......

Then you have the likes of DEASP- who have decided to ignore the panel altogether- and go do their own thing- making a complete and utter mockery of the rules everyone else plays by.........

Its a series of fiefdoms- where there are 'golden child' departments- who are gifted exactly what they want, 'unloved departments'- who are seen as albatroses- and bold children- who do what they want- regardless of what they are suggested is the appropriate course of action........ (its funny how its normally a 'suggestion' rather than an instruction- seriously- why bother?)

Addle

Excuse my ignorance, but what's INIS?

Though not at HEO level, Revenue is doing its own thing too with open competitions (the results of which don't seem to be successful) and a lot of ICT based comps are open.

The_Conductor

Addle wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but what's INIS?

Though not at HEO level, Revenue is doing its own thing too with open competitions (the results of which don't seem to be successful) and a lot of ICT based comps are open.

INIS- Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (it comes under Justice).

Revenue aren't the only one doing ICT competitions- Agriculture did an open competition recently, under licence from PAS- on behalf of 4 Departments. Apparently it has 20 people in two streams (software dev and infrastructure)- not aware of whats happening with it.

The ICT competitions are being hamstrung by how high the demand is for ICT professionals in the private sector- however, that said- there are Deloitte and Version One contract staff on the panels for both Revenue and Agriculture- so its not a valid argument to say that the posts do not have an attraction for those in the private sector (though in time- even the few who are paneled may change their minds- time will tell.....)

There are a few funny things happening out there at the moment.

Aglomerado

I wonder how it works if a candidate expressed a preference for Dublin and a region, say Galway, and then placed on the panel for both. Did their placing on the Galway panel only issue after the regional candidates were interviewed and panelled?

brownstove

Anyone happen to know if there is an live internal panel in the Dept of Justice at the moment?

agnena

brownstove wrote: »

Anyone happen to know if there is an live internal panel in the Dept of Justice at the moment?

no, there is talk about the upcoming competition, but nobody knows when.

ParkRunner

brownstove wrote: »

Anyone happen to know if there is an live internal panel in the Dept of Justice at the moment?

There is at PO level, just launched, & they will work down the grades with individual competitions durIng the rest of the year

Aglomerado

Any movement in anyone's region this week? Nothing yet in mine. Itchy feet here...

GS2K

Aglomerado wrote: »

Any movement in anyone's region this week? Nothing yet in mine. Itchy feet here...

Got the call last week for Clare so they are starting to move. Staying in my home department.

Aglomerado

GS2K wrote: »

Got the call last week for Clare so they are starting to move. Staying in my home department.

Congratulations! Great to hear!

gagsvonbuten

New to all this, got placed third on a regional panel, but am getting the impression that unless you had indicated Dublin and are prepared to serve a two year "apprenticeship" in Dublin and be a good girl and seeing that social protection and revenue seem to be running solo then the process is a farce. Does anyone know if figures are available for the last panel, specifically who got posts from what panels. Alternatively would this info be available through FOI.

Addle

gagsvonbuten wrote: »

Does anyone know if figures are available for the last panel, specifically who got posts from what panels. Alternatively would this info be available through FOI.

I'd love to see the results too.

brownstove

GS2K wrote: »

Got the call last week for Clare so they are starting to move. Staying in my home department.

Congrats GS2K, may I ask what Dept?

Aglomerado

Ideally I'd like to stay in my home department but prepared to move if necessary. Nothing yet but the department grapevine is humming with stories of upcoming HEO vacancies, most of which I'll take with a grain of salt unless verified by HR.

muddle

Got the call last week for Wexford

stillstandin

muddle wrote: »

Got the call last week for Wexford

Congrats. Great to hear that there are positions out there.
Your home department or a new department?
Do PAS ring you first with the offer and then do clearance, or is clearance done first?

trigger26

muddle wrote: »

Got the call last week for Wexford

congrats muddle, which dept?

Chieftain

Is there a specific number or email address to contact PAS to see if there is any movement on a regional panel. Be nice to know if even 1 or 2 have been appointed in my region to give me some hope that i'll get placed in the end

Aglomerado

I've used this email address in the past:

"Any queries regarding panels should be addressed to clearance@publicjobs.ie with the Subject Line "HEO clearance""

Chieftain

Aglomerado wrote: »

I've used this email address in the past:

"Any queries regarding panels should be addressed to clearance@publicjobs.ie with the Subject Line "HEO clearance""

Nice one, thanks for that. Might send them a mail just to see if anything is happening in my region.

Aglomerado

Chieftain wrote: »

Nice one, thanks for that. Might send them a mail just to see if anything is happening in my region.

They replied to my query within a day. Maybe time for me to fire off another one soon to see if anything's coming up.

Aglomerado

Got the call (or, rather, the message to check my PAS account.)

Not for my home department but in a good area geographically for me so very very feasible!

I don't know what's in the pipeline in my home department though so I'm going to see what's happening here too before I make a decision.

Addle

Well done.
How long do you get to decide?

Aglomerado

Addle wrote: »

Well done.
How long do you get to decide?

Thanks . I'm not sure how long I get to decide. I have been given a name and number for a person in HR who will be in touch soon, so I think it'll be between me and them to arrange a start date. I remember when I got EO (ages ago) that was how it worked as well.

stillstandin

Aglomerado wrote: »

Got the call (or, rather, the message to check my PAS account.)

Not for my home department but in a good area geographically for me so very very feasible!

I don't know what's in the pipeline in my home department though so I'm going to see what's happening here too before I make a decision.

Great news!!
Curious about which regional panel will you be gone from.
No problem if you prefer not to say here.

Aglomerado

stillstandin wrote: »

Great news!!
Curious about which regional panel will you be gone from.
No problem if you prefer not to say here.

PM sent!

Bridie402

Hi all,

Quick Q please...........????

Is there anymore Regional canidates being called to interview any time soon?

The last I heard they had stopped at the 720 Mark!!

Perhaps I should email public jobs to check?

Thanks so much!!! Much appreciated!!

:-)

Luckymummy

Hi there,

I’d be interested in knowing if anymore regional candidates are been called too!

Bridie402 wrote: »

Hi all,

Quick Q please...........????

Is there anymore Regional canidates being called to interview any time soon?

The last I heard they had stopped at the 720 Mark!!

Perhaps I should email public jobs to check?

Thanks so much!!! Much appreciated!!

:-)