The rise of the 'cyclivist'

Jawgap

First off, I don't cycle as much as I used to (or should) but I still get out occasionally and as yesterday evening proved - there's not much to beat a summer evening's cycle around the city.......even if it is going from meeting to meeting!!

Anyhooooo.....on the way back I detoured to have a look at the 'protest' going on at the Customs House regarding the use of that stretch of solid line bike lane as an effective coach park and I just wondered if anyone else has considered the rise of what might be called 'cyclivism.'

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/897493404124413953

As an aside, I thought I'd invented a new word but google tells me there is a (very nice) cyclivist blog.

I kind of defined cyclivism as something more than advocacy, as in activities that stray into the realm of more direct action.

Anyway, my own view, fwiw, is that while highlighting important issues, I'm not sure this type of action does much to help resolve matters because it tends to be escalatory, rather than conciliatory, and can result in unintended consequences - in the case of the cycle lane issue, for example, the reaction of DCC may well be to turn 'solid line' lanes into 'dashed line' lanes (or remove them altogether). And in any event, is the fundamental issue in cycle safety terms the lack of infrastructure or the country's driving and road safety culture (or lack thereof)? Personally, I think it's less of the former and much more of the latter.

Plus, I think it just shifts the perception of cycling from being a pleasant activity to being almost, but not quite, some form of political activity!! But there again, Orwell (I think) did say the revolution will arrive by bicycle.

Macy0161

Jawgap wrote:

Anyway, my own view, fwiw, is that while highlighting important issues, I'm not sure this type of action does much to help resolve matters because it tends to be escalatory, rather than conciliatory, and can result in unintended consequences - in the case of the cycle lane issue, for example, the reaction of DCC may well be to turn 'solid line' lanes into 'dashed line' lanes (or remove them altogether). And in any event, is the fundamental issue in cycle safety terms the lack of infrastructure or the country's driving and road safety culture (or lack thereof)? Personally, I think it's less of the former and much more of the latter.

If they are never enforced, they might as well be a dashed line or not there.

And is it not also highlighting the lack of driving skill/ knowledge or ignorance? Cycle lanes are seen as somewhere to park, drop off, move broken down vehicles, or pull over people to ticket!

I'm not involved in the campaign, but the ignorance (willful or not) of mandatory cycle lanes is a big bug bear of mine!

LeChienMefiant

Not an active cyclist myself either, it would be disingenuous of me to suggest it's purely down to safety concerns. Although my wife has "forbidden" me from commuting by bike since witnessing some accidents, and also I personally collided with a stray car one day.

It's fantastic that these guys are highlighting this lack of provision for cyclists and it's a conversation that needs to happen. Need to keep the pressure up to bring about a change for the better in the city.

newport2

Macy0161 wrote: »

And is it not also highlighting the lack of driving skill/ knowledge or ignorance? Cycle lanes are seen as somewhere to park, drop off, move broken down vehicles, or pull over people to ticket!

If you put on your hazard lights then the rules of the road don't apply to you.

magicbastarder

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm not sure this type of action does much to help resolve matters because it tends to be escalatory, rather than conciliatory

isn't this the sort of criticism usually levelled at any sort of direct action, though?

the issue of parking in cycle lanes is simply *not policed* in dublin. non-cyclists don't notice and don't care, so this is a good way of highlighting the issue.

regarding it being escalatory, they're not removing illegally parked cars; this seems a rather passive form of direct action.

PAKNET

I think it's an excellent campaign to be honest and I also am not a cyclist.

Farmers, hauliers, taxi drivers, to name but a few, have shown in the past they're very quick to launch campaigns and protests on issues surrounding them, and they're not afraid to hold everyone in the entire city up in doing so either!

So I wouldn't consider this campaign by cyclists as in any way politicising it.

amcalester

I think as protests go these guys have the balance right between raising awareness and not needlessly antagonizing other road users.

Its not just protest for the sake of protest, it's very pointed, and has very little impact on people obeying the rules of the road while highlighting an important issue. Fair play to them.

Anyone else see the title and think this thread was going to about Cycledub's YouTube channel?

Hunterbiker

This level of protest is fine and reasonable.

If you look at protests in Countires like France we look almost too polite.

The French really know how to highlight an issue and protest.

Jawgap

Macy0161 wrote: »

If they are never enforced, they might as well be a dashed line or not there.

And is it not also highlighting the lack of driving skill/ knowledge or ignorance? Cycle lanes are seen as somewhere to park, drop off, move broken down vehicles, or pull over people to ticket!

I'm not involved in the campaign, but the ignorance (willful or not) of mandatory cycle lanes is a big bug bear of mine!

That's the key issue, imv. The lack of enforcement. And while not disputing the value of such interventions to highlight an issue, I would question their value in generating a constructive response - as in more widespread and more vigorous enforcement of the relevant laws.

The objective of any activist is to provoke a response but it isn't axiomatic that you'll get the response you want or hope for. That's why I think winning over the relevant authorities by weight of argument, rater than by force of action would be better in the longer term.

dermabrasion

Irish people do not call-out minor infractions, as usually you will be told to f***-off' (at the very least), which puts most people off. We do call-out the major stuff. I think this translates into the attitude of Gardai to minor road traffic infractions. For example I've never seen a Garda pull someone out for stopping in a yellow box, or in this case ignoring bike lanes. But, they do go after 165kph on the M6, or drink-driving. So I think this attitude translates into an unwritten SOP for the Gardai. They did act when the new bike path in the Phoenix park was recently completely parked-on top-to-bottom, which would reach the threshold of 'completely-out-of-order'.
To get to the point, I think this type of protest is important as it says that we do want this particular law enforced. Reaching the right tone is important to be perceived as regular people and avoiding the 'cyclvists' or 'cycle-istas', and then be marginalised.

magicbastarder

Jawgap wrote: »

That's why I think winning over the relevant authorities by weight of argument, rater than by force of action would be better in the longer term.

i've mentioned this several times here before. i regularly cycle the ballymun road, in both directions. there's an on-road cycle lane in both directions for 2km, which is generally clear, as it's a cycle/bus lane - you do get people parking in it outside the school on the junction with glasnevin avenue, but to be fair, that's before the 4pm-7pm hours of operation there - but the spot you are *absolutely* guaranteed to find people parked in it - not matter the time of day or hours of operation of that lane - is right outside the garda station. whether any of those cars actually belong to gardai, i am not going to speculate.

i'd love the i bike dublin people to pick a spot outside a garda station for their next event.

bobbysands81

As a motorist it's great to see folk cycling to and from work, fair play to you all.

I follow this guy on YouTube, surely one of the best cyclivists out there! He's like a one man police force crusading against all other road users.

https://www.youtube.com/user/CycleDub

I wonder does he put himself at risk at all by confronting so many people.

Macy0161

dermabrasion wrote: »

Irish people do not call-out minor infractions, as usually you will be told to f***-off' (at the very least), which puts most people off. We do call-out the major stuff. I think this translates into the attitude of Gardai to minor road traffic infractions. For example I've never seen a Garda pull someone out for stopping in a yellow box, or in this case ignoring bike lanes. But, they do go after 165kph on the M6, or drink-driving. So I think this attitude translates into an unwritten SOP for the Gardai. They did act when the new bike path in the Phoenix park was recently completely parked-on top-to-bottom, which would reach the threshold of 'completely-out-of-order'.
To get to the point, I think this type of protest is important as it says that we do want this particular law enforced. Reaching the right tone is important to be perceived as regular people and avoiding the 'cyclvists' or 'cycle-istas', and then be marginalised.

Ironically, when i see them enforcing the bus lanes on the N11 (very occasionally), they often pull the drivers up into the off road cycle lane to ticket/ lecture.

buffalo

dermabrasion wrote: »

They did act when the new bike path in the Phoenix park was recently completely parked-on top-to-bottom, which would reach the threshold of 'completely-out-of-order'.

Was that the Gardaí or the OPW (in charge of the Park) ?

average_runner

The set up at custom house is just stupid. Basically there is a dedicated bus stop for buses from Wexford etc to stop there. But there is no where for a car to pull in and pick up a person from the bus there.

I raised this with the city council and its meant to be something they are looking at.

If providing a bus stop for buses around the country, you have to provide a pick up zone!

LeinsterDub

Like the bus lane in Whitehall people were ignoring. All solid white line cycling lanes should have these

https://www.pittman.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/i/pittman_traffic_safety_equipment_0086_v2.jpg

magicbastarder

average_runner wrote: »

The set up at custom house is just stupid. Basically there is a dedicated bus stop for buses from Wexford etc to stop there. But there is no where for a car to pull in and pick up a person from the bus there.

it's a pity there are no footpaths provided for said passenger to transport themselves to another location for said pickup.

magicbastarder

heh.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/08/16/finally-155/

average_runner

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's a pity there are no footpaths provided for said passenger to transport themselves to another location for said pickup.

Not everyone can walk across the bridge and across the junction when green man doesn't last long enough.

For example my Dad is pretty old.

The best solution would be for the buses to stop at the Ulster bank across the river.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/08/16/finally-155/

And ticketed by a garda on a bike too.

Jawgap

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/08/16/finally-155/

In fairness to the Guards - this is neither the first nor the only time they've done people for parking in bike lanes - it pops up reasonably frequently on their Twitter feed.

Plus they do their bit for reducing congestion by seizing cars all over the place

LeinsterDub

average_runner wrote: »

Not everyone can walk across the bridge and across the junction when green man doesn't last long enough.

For example my Dad is pretty old.

The best solution would be for the buses to stop at the Ulster bank across the river.

Get off at a different stop so.

average_runner

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/08/16/finally-155/

Its great to see, now if they just did the same for cars parked on footpaths it be great.

magicbastarder

average_runner wrote: »

The best solution would be for the buses to stop at the Ulster bank across the river.

is that the last stop? wondering if it'd make more sense to pull up a bit further down (i.e. nearer the point) - more room for the bus to pull in, potentially, plus it might mean that anyone driving in to do a pickup might have less need to use the quays.
would be nice to see some joined up thinking where regional bus tickets would also include an onward trip on the luas or DB.

average_runner

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Get off at a different stop so.

Not really a solution, maybe better thinking by Dublin council would be better.

blackwhite

Macy0161 wrote: »

If they are never enforced, they might as well be a dashed line or not there.

And is it not also highlighting the lack of driving skill/ knowledge or ignorance? Cycle lanes are seen as somewhere to park, drop off, move broken down vehicles, or pull over people to ticket!

I'm not involved in the campaign, but the ignorance (willful or not) of mandatory cycle lanes is a big bug bear of mine!

I don't think it's specific to mandatory cycle lanes - double yellows, clearways, parking opposite a solid white line - all are just as routinely ignored as well.

It's a problem of enforcement across the board - Dublin City Council clampers are under instruction to focus on marked parking spots where people have either overstayed, or haven't paid at all. their instructions for people parked outside of marked parking spaces is to wait 15 min before doing anything (I've asked them before why they were clamping a car in a proper parking space and ignoring the one 30m behind it parked on double yellows). They don't have the authority/permission to issue tickets without clamping - so they end up usually ignoring anything that isn't in a marked parking spot.

Tenzor07

I admire there calm actions in highlighting the widespread abuse of painted cycle lanes in Dublin..
The fact that parking motor vehicles in active cycle lanes is allowed by Gardai and DCC gives rise to this kind of protest..

Though in Russia things are so bad that activists started physically stopping cars and trucks from driving on footpaths, and stickered cars who parked illegally.... I heard they are banned now though..

I'm fairly sure there are times during the day that parking is allowed there? Do the signs still say clear 07:00 to 10:00 - 12:30 to 19:00?

mr spuckler

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/08/16/finally-155/

i also saw a garda on Baggot st this morning ticketing a taxi driver parked in a loading bay. strange coincidence, i never normally see them ticketing anyone for dodgy parking!

average_runner

magicbastarder wrote: »

is that the last stop? wondering if it'd make more sense to pull up a bit further down (i.e. nearer the point) - more room for the bus to pull in, potentially, plus it might mean that anyone driving in to do a pickup might have less need to use the quays.
would be nice to see some joined up thinking where regional bus tickets would also include an onward trip on the luas or DB.

You would think, it stops outside the Spencer Hotel which is not a great location either. Actually it stops in alot of cycle lanes in Dublin!!!!

The bus can easily go across the bridge, pull in at Ulster Bank( it pull's in there when going to wexford) and then go back across Talbot bridge, ie a full circle. Why the council havent done this I never know!

I like the plan for the quays, while it will affect me when coming in from West Dublin, I very rarely drive in.

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

i also saw a garda on Baggot st this morning ticketing a taxi driver parked in a loading bay. strange coincidence, i never normally see them ticketing anyone for dodgy parking!

I think you were hallucinating! :eek: