The rise of the 'cyclivist'

jive

It is good work they are doing and highlights the issues whether you agree with their approach or not. I cycle to and from work every day but there's no chance I'd let me kids cycle to school along the same route; the 'stress' of cycling around Dublin does inhibit a lot of people.

Infrastructure/rules being more respected and increased segregated lanes where relevant would massively increase the number of cyclists. You don't need to look much further than the segregated lane along the canal to see evidence of this. It's a win-win for all road users in terms of health, traffic management, cost-efficiency, etc.

mr spuckler

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I think you were hallucinating! :eek:

maybe i'd fallen off earlier and knocked my head, i'll check the camera footage later to make sure :pac:

TallGlass

You've to question the mentality of some drivers, yesterday I literally witnessed a driver behind a guy turning right, only that his path wasn't clear so he done the correct action and didn't turn till clear as it was a yellow box. Yet the clown behind him was hockying the horn out of it for him to do something illegal.

The Gardaí Corps should assign two members to just literally get a dart board out and place a map of Dublin on it, fire it at said board and then patrol that street and surrounding streets for the day, literally handing out tickets for everything they can, bike lanes, red lights, yellow boxes, parking, bus lanes, drivers phones. Plain cloths if needs be, in fact have one in uniform and one in plain cloths. The best thing is you never know what street it will be on.

Jawgap

jive wrote: »

It is good work they are doing and highlights the issues whether you agree with their approach or not. I cycle to and from work every day but there's no chance I'd let me kids cycle to school along the same route; the 'stress' of cycling around Dublin does inhibit a lot of people.

Infrastructure/rules being more respected and increased segregated lanes where relevant would massively increase the number of cyclists. You don't need to look much further than the segregated lane along the canal to see evidence of this. It's a win-win for all road users in terms of health, traffic management, cost-efficiency, etc.

This is the bit that always has me scratching my head......is Dublin really that stressful a city to cycle around?

Personally, I find it a great city to cycle in - generally flat, generally dry and plenty to see. I know there are idiot road users of other classes you have to contend with but no more so (in fact less so) compared to other cities I've cycled in.

.....that's not to say there isn't significant room for improvement and enhancement but I think its wrong, in my experience, to somehow equate the unrealised potential of the city to it being stressful or dangerous to cycle around it.

I'd see protests such as this as highlighting a negative about the city in terms of cycling, whereas I'd prefer my protests to be a bit more positive......ymmv.

Maybe a few more 'critical mass' type events to get people on bikes rather than standing on the road.

Chips Lovell

Likewise. I've always found Dublin to be very safe and very pleasant to cycle in. Even the rain isn't so bad once you get moving.

Jawgap

TallGlass wrote: »

You've to question the mentality of some drivers, yesterday I literally witnessed a driver behind a guy turning right, only that his path wasn't clear so he done the correct action and didn't turn till clear as it was a yellow box. Yet the clown behind him was hockying the horn out of it for him to do something illegal.

The Gardaí Corps should assign two members to just literally get a dart board out and place a map of Dublin on it, fire it at said board and then patrol that street and surrounding streets for the day, literally handing out tickets for everything they can, bike lanes, red lights, yellow boxes, parking, bus lanes, drivers phones. Plain cloths if needs be, in fact have one in uniform and one in plain cloths. The best thing is you never know what street it will be on.

Personally, I'd prefer that if the Guards had 2 spare bodies they put them both in plain clothes (or plain lycra:D) and send them out with go-pros just to ticket all the dangerous over-takers and cornerers.

Thus tackling directly a genuine safety issue in a focused and sustainable way, rather than just setting out to antagonise a corner of the city.

magicbastarder

Jawgap wrote: »

I'd see protests such as this as highlighting a negative about the city in terms of cycling, whereas I'd prefer my protests to be a bit more positive......ymmv.

Maybe a few more 'critical mass' type events to get people on bikes rather than standing on the road.

there's another 'critical mass' style ride on sep 10th.

Jawgap

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's another 'critical mass' style ride on sep 10th.

Having them on Sunday isn't really the point though? Is it?

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

Plus, I think it just shifts the perception of cycling from being a pleasant activity to being almost, but not quite, some form of political activity!! But there again, Orwell (I think) did say the revolution will arrive by bicycle.

That cycling club are great for misquoting people :P

LeinsterDub

average_runner wrote: »

Not really a solution, maybe better thinking by Dublin council would be better.

North wall quay or Merrion Sq aren't that far away

TallGlass

Jawgap wrote: »

Personally, I'd prefer that if the Guards had 2 spare bodies they put them both in plain clothes (or plain lycra:D) and send them out with go-pros just to ticket all the dangerous over-takers and cornerers.

Thus tackling directly a genuine safety issue in a focused and sustainable way, rather than just setting out to antagonise a corner of the city.

They can do that too, have them on bikes, which ever you want, they don't leave the street for 8 hours, cycling and walking that street. It's antagonising to the fools not following the law.

magicbastarder

Jawgap wrote: »

Having them on Sunday isn't really the point though? Is it?

but you mentioned that one of the concerns you had about the bike lane action was that it is 'escalatory rather than conciliatory' - and one of the issues people have (whether you agree with their conclusion or not) with weekday critical mass bike rides is that they create traffic jams for motorists - many of whom may be 'bike friendly' - for no other aim than visibility for cyclists.

whereas these bike lane actions are specifically targetting *only those* motorists who would choose to ignore the law, while still maintaining visibilty. i'd see these as less escalatory.

purcela

TallGlass wrote: »

You've to question the mentality of some drivers, yesterday I literally witnessed a driver behind a guy turning right, only that his path wasn't clear so he done the correct action and didn't turn till clear as it was a yellow box. Yet the clown behind him was hockying the horn out of it for him to do something illegal.

The Gardaí Corps should assign two members to just literally get a dart board out and place a map of Dublin on it, fire it at said board and then patrol that street and surrounding streets for the day, literally handing out tickets for everything they can, bike lanes, red lights, yellow boxes, parking, bus lanes, drivers phones. Plain cloths if needs be, in fact have one in uniform and one in plain cloths. The best thing is you never know what street it will be on.

I reckon the Gardai should hire CycleDub from YouTube

Jawgap

magicbastarder wrote: »

but you mentioned that one of the concerns you had about the bike lane action was that it is 'escalatory rather than conciliatory' - and one of the issues people have (whether you agree with their conclusion or not) with weekday critical mass bike rides is that they create traffic jams for motorists - many of whom may be 'bike friendly' - for no other aim than visibility for cyclists.

whereas these bike lane actions are specifically targetting *only those* motorists who would choose to ignore the law, while still maintaining visibilty. i'd see these as less escalatory.

There is a difference between using the streets and getting people to use them in a way that says "we're here" and simply occupying a static location. One action sets out to prove a positive.....that cycling is both enjoyable and a viable way to move around the city, whereas the other aims to make a point by being narrowly disruptive.

.....plus, encouraging drivers, public transport users etc to get on a bike and enjoy a day of commuting as part of a wider social, critical mass grouping is much more likely to convert people to the merits of the bike as a mode of transport than occupying a location, even if it is for the purposes of deterring behaviour non-compliant with road traffic legislation.

Can't see too many drivers giving up their car to spend an hour standing beside a bike lane, but they may be minded to try an ol' spin on the bike if they could, within the safety a larger group offers.

tomasrojo

The event in September isn't mean to be a "critical mass" event, as I understand CM. It's meant to create an image that accurately reflects how much a decent facility is wanted along the Liffey, rather than to block traffic and force motorists to think about cyclists.

I might be being unfair to CM. It just always seemed counterproductive to me, which I don't find the IBIKEDUBLIN lot or the pro-Liffey cycleway campaigns to be.

tomasrojo

The thing about Dublin being stressful to cycle in: I definitely don't find it stressful overall. But I guess I've a lot of experience behind me, and I've filtered out all the worst roads from my regular and semi-regular routes.

The only problem with this approach (which is a great success, from my point of view) is that it probably takes perseverance beyond what someone who enjoys cycling less than me would have (or someone who has enjoyed, shall we say, a more continuous relationship with full-time paid employment than I have).

It would obviously be better for any major road to be intuitively navigable and low-stress for even the just about competent cyclist.

Plasid

About the hours in use (or not)

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/897545817233514496

AndrewJRenko

Jawgap wrote: »

The objective of any activist is to provoke a response but it isn't axiomatic that you'll get the response you want or hope for. That's why I think winning over the relevant authorities by weight of argument, rater than by force of action would be better in the longer term.

Dublin Cycling Campaign and Cyclist.ie have been doing the 'hearts and minds' lobbying for a decade or two. If you think this is the way to go, feel free to help them out.

IBIKEDublin are taking a more direct approach, which compliments the other activities.

Jawgap

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Dublin Cycling Campaign and Cyclist.ie have been doing the 'hearts and minds' lobbying for a decade or two. If you think this is the way to go, feel free to help them out.

IBIKEDublin are taking a more direct approach, which compliments the other activities.

How do you know I don't

Kaisr Sose

Plasid wrote: »

About the hours in use (or not)

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/897545817233514496

AGS should be ashamed of themselves for allowing a situation to develop where motorists feel/believe they can park wherever they want and face no consequence. It permiates onto the road and again the belief that 'the ROTR don't apply to me' mentality pervades. On the fist page someone wrote the ROTR don't apply when you have hazard lights on – Seriously? Do people believe they can fly, walk on water or suffer no consequence for their actions when responsible for/driving a motor vehicle?

It should be so easy to deal with all these behaviours and beliefs – active and visible enforcement of the ROTR for all road users.

The roads would be safer for all...

average_runner

LeinsterDub wrote: »

North wall quay or Merrion Sq aren't that far away

You ever try to get parking up there. There is a easy solution, just get the bus to stop across the river like it does when going the other way.

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

On the fist page someone wrote the ROTR don't apply when you have hazard lights on – Seriously?

i very, very, very strongly suspect that was in jest; mocking the attitude of certain road users, not a statement of fact.

Weepsie

average_runner wrote: »

You ever try to get parking up there. There is a easy solution, just get the bus to stop across the river like it does when going the other way.

There shouldn't be a pick up point. You'll have cars camped all day.

A better shared terminus elsewhere where people can go in might be better. Those who are staying in the city quickly disembark and get where they are going. Those who need or want to be collect wait until the terminus so private vehicles aren't having to come into the city centre

average_runner

Weepsie wrote: »

There shouldn't be a pick up point. You'll have cars camped all day.

A better shared terminus elsewhere where people can go in might be better. Those who are staying in the city quickly disembark and get where they are going. Those who need or want to be collect wait until the terminus so private vehicles aren't having to come into the city centre

Forward thinking would be a good idea, but that doesn't happen in Ireland.

Its a dedicated bus stop, so the bus can park there as long as it needs. I just pull in right behind and then leave when the bus leaves. I can fit the car in the bus stop so not affecting anyone else.

And if people want to drive into the city, they can.

beauf

Jawgap wrote: »

...is the fundamental issue in cycle safety terms the lack of infrastructure or the country's driving and road safety culture (or lack thereof)? Personally, I think it's less of the former and much more of the latter....

About 50:50 IMO

Better infrastructure requires less decision making from road users but it also raises awareness.

Some road design removes infrastructure to improve safety

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/removal-road-markings-safer-fewer-accidents-drivers

Jawgap

beauf wrote: »

About 50:50 IMO

Better infrastructure requires less decision making from road users but it also raises awareness.

Some road design removes infrastructure to improve safety

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/removal-road-markings-safer-fewer-accidents-drivers

indeed - but even in the best countries good infrastructure is not universal whereas a respectful road use culture (if it could be engendered) would be ubiquitous.

eagle eye

A place on the road for cyclists only makes me scream for a bicycle tax. Why should I be paying motor tax to repair a part of the road I cannot use?

I think if there was a bicycle tax it would make people more aware of the fact that it's for cyclists only and we could spend more money putting these lanes on a lot more roads too and not just in towns and cities.

Of course as somebody who cycles myself I don't want to pay a bicycle tax.

Esroh

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

On the fist page someone wrote the ROTR don't apply when you have hazard lights on – Seriously?

Having worked as a Driver doing 'Home Deliveries' .It was something we were told in our training from Day1.Put your hazards on and park. You could do so for 15 minutes without reprecussion if parking bays were not provided for commercial use. Or if it outside stated times of Commercial Deliveries on Loading Bays and they were full of private cars.

I know it doesn't make it legal but it seems to be an unwritten allowence for deliveries.

amcalester

eagle eye wrote: »

A place on the road for cyclists only makes me scream for a bicycle tax. Why should I be paying motor tax to repair a part of the road I cannot use?

I think if there was a bicycle tax it would make people more aware of the fact that it's for cyclists only and we could spend more money putting these lanes on a lot more roads too and not just in towns and cities.

Of course as somebody who cycles myself I don't want to pay a bicycle tax.

It would cost more to implement a cycle tax that it would generate.

Also, bicycles have 0 emissions so how would you tax them.

I already pay motor tax anyway, do I get a refund because I don't use my car as much as others and so cause less damage?

Weepsie

eagle eye wrote: »

A place on the road for cyclists only makes me scream for a bicycle tax. Why should I be paying motor tax to repair a part of the road I cannot use?

I think if there was a bicycle tax it would make people more aware of the fact that it's for cyclists only and we could spend more money putting these lanes on a lot more roads too and not just in towns and cities.

Of course as somebody who cycles myself I don't want to pay a bicycle tax.

Firstly, Roads are paid out of general taxation not motor tax.

now,

[Mod Voice] Let's end the motor tax, bike tax talk there. There are some posts which are unfairly bashing AGS who are vastly understaffed at present, and unfairly tarring all motorists with one brush.

As a thread about the rise of 'cyclivist' it's better to keep it to discussing such activities and not how it's a pain to find parking or do the above tarring of all motorists/garda/cyclists or whichever group[Mod Voice]