The rise of the 'cyclivist'

Jawgap

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

....anyway, I'm off shopping now

I'm all in favour of behaviour change but imo enforcing rules of the road and the plastic bag levy are not comparable. The latter involved the imposition of a charge and the obligation on the retailer to collect it. Even the smoke in pubs ban was easier than ROTR as while there are many pubs they are always to be found in their predictable location and it's a good guess that there are more non-smokers than smokers to complain if ban infringed. ROTR infringements on the other hand happen randomly everywhere and there's a good chance the majority of motorists aren't bothered by the risk and inconvenience of parking in cycle lanes,( though hopefully they feel differently re dangerous overtaking). Remember too that people who cycle are perceived as an out group and not "people like us". It seems to me that there's an awful lot more processing, money, manpower involved in enforcing this area of behaviour change. I agree it should be done but in the meantime more power to ibike Dublin for trying to protect the little bit of infrastructure that's designated for bike riders.

Well, as far as missing a point goes that's a pretty long one.....

.....my point was that the State, when it deems it politically expedient, can act decisively to quickly alter citizen behaviour and cultural norms.

A poster highlighted the water charges campaign as an example of how people resisted such action successfully.

I rebutted with those examples.

I could also have used examples linked to Road Traffic legislation such as seatbelt usage, drink driving, speeding, the NCT, driver training/education etc but I thought the others were better examples as they had a much wider societal impact.

Corca Baiscinn

No, I get your point and I said I was in favour of behaviour change initiatives.Some of those you mention have been a lot more successful than others, seatbelts yes but the cars of my youth didn't have them whereas now they're a standard item. Dont think out speed culture has altered much though except when we fear getting caught and that's my point, there wont be a garda/warden on every street corner so my view is that people on bikes need to help themselves.

Chuchote

Esroh wrote: »

Having worked as a Driver doing 'Home Deliveries' .It was something we were told in our training from Day1.Put your hazards on and park. You could do so for 15 minutes without reprecussion if parking bays were not provided for commercial use. Or if it outside stated times of Commercial Deliveries on Loading Bays and they were full of private cars.

I know it doesn't make it legal but it seems to be an unwritten allowence for deliveries.

And if your action causes someone on a bike to be killed, your company will be sued for everything up to and including your false teeth and knickers, and you'll be out of a job.

beauf wrote: »

I think that is going to be difficult in a country which doesn't have mindset of following rules in general.

Again, I'd have to agree with the many who have pointed out that most rules in Ireland are kept, usually with a relaxed, jokey mode, and that major changes such as for instance seatbelt wearing and having cars tested for safety have been accepted and become part of normal behaviour with no problem.

Dublin isn't a nice city to cycle in; nor are Cork, Galway, Limerick or any other Irish city. If they were, the census would not show virtually no children riding their bikes to school. It would be far more convenient for parents and far healthier and more fun for children if the kids could get on a bike. But parents just don't feel safe enough.

The iBikeDublin manifs, of which I'm a part, are very deliberately good-humoured and non-confrontational. They started in Andrew's Street, where a contraflow bicycle lane is commonly parked on by tour coaches - really, really dangerous for someone who has to cycle out into oncoming traffic. They have continued in some of the places where it is customary for vans and coaches especially to ignore cycle lanes in an unsafe way.

(By the way, wouldn't it be possible for the car park at Heuston Station to be reorganised and coaches to disgorge their passengers there and drive on? And for the coach tickets - and train tickets - to include a Luas fare to the city centre or further? Or indeed for the intercity buses to stop at the Luas depot at the Red Cow and the passengers to have tickets to go into the city?)

With the number of cyclists growing so fast, it's time to have protected and separated bike tracks - to give up the nonsense of Finnegan's Wake style dotted bike lanes that are sometimes in and sometimes out again; to have all bike tracks wide enough for purpose and protected from cars by bollards or planters. Then maybe we'll have kids riding bikes to school, and then in turn I would predict a softening of the current fashion for arrogance by some drivers.

dermabrasion

Chuchote wrote: »

With the number of cyclists growing so fast, it's time to have protected and separated bike tracks - to give up the nonsense of Finnegan's Wake style dotted bike lanes that are sometimes in and sometimes out again; to have all bike tracks wide enough for purpose and protected from cars by bollards or planters. Then maybe we'll have kids riding bikes to school, and then in turn I would predict a softening of the current fashion for arrogance by some drivers.

All Lord Winston Churchtown seems to be thinking about is the judicial appointments farce. He is the most useless minister for transport I can remember.

MrMorooka

The cycle lane on SSG East is completely full of (double-)parked cars today, like every Friday, for the people selling art on the railings there. Also blocking some stands of the DB station. Why is this allowed?

Chuchote

MrMorooka wrote: »

The cycle lane on SSG East is completely full of (double-)parked cars today, like every Friday, for the people selling art on the railings there. Also blocking some stands of the DB station. Why is this allowed?

SSG?

DanDublin1982

Chuchote wrote: »

SSG?

St Stephens Green

Chuchote

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

St Stephens Green

Ah, thanks, never heard it called SSG before!

dub_skav

Chuchote wrote: »

Ah, thanks, never heard it called SSG before!

Swanky Sodium Glutamate

magicbastarder

Stereo sodium glutamate.

ED E

Scharfschützengewehr

AndrewJRenko

MrMorooka wrote: »

The cycle lane on SSG East is completely full of (double-)parked cars today, like every Friday, for the people selling art on the railings there. Also blocking some stands of the DB station. Why is this allowed?

Is this temporary while unloading or do they stay for a while? Any pics?

I've seen that lane blocked at school opening and closing times by parents from Loreto.

Corca Baiscinn

And if your action causes someone on a bike to be killed, your company will be sued for everything up to and including your false teeth and knickers, and you'll be out of a job.

Chuchote, have you ever heard of that happening here, ie a fatality because of a blocked bike lane resulting in a conviction for the driver who blocked the lane? I've wondered about it since I read about a case in Strasbourg where a young woman was killed and both the driver blocking the lane and the driver who hit her when she moved out were convicted though if I understood the French properly it was a suspended sentence. I can't remember where I read the link to the story and have often meant to look for it again.

I haven't read Finnegan's Wake but Lanigan's Ball has people stepping in and out again!

Chuchote

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

And if your action causes someone on a bike to be killed, your company will be sued for everything up to and including your false teeth and knickers, and you'll be out of a job.

Chuchote, have you ever heard of that happening here, ie a fatality because of a blocked bike lane resulting in a conviction for the driver who blocked the lane? I've wondered about it since I read about a case in Strasbourg where a young woman was killed and both the driver blocking the lane and the driver who hit her when she moved out were convicted though if I understood the French properly it was a suspended sentence. I can't remember where I read the link to the story and have often meant to look for it again.

I haven't read Finnegan's Wake but Lanigan's Ball has people stepping in and out again!

I'm not talking about State cases; I'm saying that if a company causes a death by an illegal action it lays itself open to private prosecution.

Finnegans Wake is the book, Finnegan's Wake is the song And yes, it's the song I meant - sometimes a bike lane, sometimes not a bike lane, with the result that people in cars regard it as not really existing.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

I'm not talking about State cases; I'm saying that if a company causes a death by an illegal action it lays itself open to private prosecution.

I think you massively overestimate the likely penalty for causing death if the mechanism somehow involves a car. We've seen people speeding through red lights while on their phone leaving a pedestrian crippled for life get off with a fine. When judges routinely seem to get confused about whether they are the judge or the defence and come out with things like "everyone makes mistakes"/"momentary lapse"/"we're not robots" it is hard to imagine what sort of circumstances would result in a company being sued in to oblivion like you imagine.

Yesterday, next to the Luas stop on Harcourt Street I saw two taxis stopped on the double yellow lines with their magic parking lights on. Despite the fact that this is a busy road and stopping on the double yellows blocks one of the two lanes this is completely endemic. It is rare that I don't see a taxi or delivery van doing this when I getting my lunch. What makes yesterday's situation unusual was that these two assholes had chosen to park on opposite sides of the road creating a slalom for the two lanes of traffic coming around the corner from Camden street. Advocates of tax and licencing for cyclists would have you believe that lack of these things is the reason for cyclists bad behaviour. When PSV drivers, with their ID numbers in glowing letters on the roof of their cars routinely pull crap like this the obvious conclusion is that they know full well that they can get away with it, and the very worst that will happen is that they will have to move on if they are unlucky enough to have a guard who could be bothered see them.

magicbastarder

i also think there's a misunderstanding of liability too in relation to the above scenario (which seems to be van drivers parked where they shouldn't be, and cyclists going around them); it is always the primary responsibility of the motorist or cyclist to look after their own safety. even if someone has parked like an idiot, it's my responsibility to only pull around them when it is safe to do so.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i also think there's a misunderstanding of liability too in relation to the above scenario (which seems to be van drivers parked where they shouldn't be, and cyclists going around them); it is always the primary responsibility of the motorist or cyclist to look after their own safety. even if someone has parked like an idiot, it's my responsibility to only pull around them when it is safe to do so.

However, when infrastructure has been provided specifically to keep someone separate from faster traffic, and this is blocked, anyone blocking it contributes to the death or injury of someone who would have been safe if using it.

Kaisr Sose

It is worth noting that commercial van (and possibly taxi) insurance covers accidents and injury that occur while the van is parked for the purposes of loading or unloading of the vehicle.