Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Non book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

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lawred2

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

In fairness you used the exact same defense of Alien Covenant on the film forum, as if 'entertainment' should negate all reasonable expectation and those who rightfully point out glaring flaws are somehow reaching to find fault.

There is no reaching required - it's essentially a fact that that GOT has become lazy and convenient, and it being entirely entertaining does not change that simple fact.

I'll watch it to the end as I've been watching from the start but I'm just finding myself sighing far too often at this stage.. I feel that the depth of a lot of the long and slowly developed characters is being reduced with almost every scene. Reduced in banal entertainment industry shortcuts and dialogues.. An attempt at forced tension where non really exists. Rather hollow attempts at humour at inappropriate times.

For me it's a huge pity. Others will still enjoy it and that's why we can expect more of the same.

MOH

Drumpot wrote: »

This . . .

Some people take themselves way too serious, they need to lighten up. Enjoying the roller coaster is way more satisfying then applying rigid expectations that are only going to lead to disappointment . .

There's any number of badly written shows which are still entertaining.

Less common shows that are well written, consistent, with well developed characters which establish in-universe conventions and motivations and stick to them.

This was one of the latter, but is rapidly throwing all that out of the window. There's still hope for it but it's fading.
That mightn't bother you, great, I'm actually envious.
But it's not unreasonable to comment on it.

TimeToShine

nc6000 wrote: »

Why did the captured wight not die along with the others in his group when the white walker with them was killed?

I think they were trying to get across the fact that the NK is so organized that he has every WW group take basically a scout with them who was raised by a different WW, so that if the WW dies his job is to start screaming to attract attention or run and inform someone. That explains why the last one went berserk with the shouting when he was caught.

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benny79

MOH wrote: »

Any reason you didn't just post a link to the article?

I did above

Drumpot

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

In fairness you used the exact same defense of Alien Covenant on the film forum, as if 'entertainment' should negate all reasonable expectation and those who rightfully point out glaring flaws are somehow reaching to find fault.

There is no reaching required - it's essentially a fact that that GOT has become lazy and convenient, and it being entirely entertaining does not change that simple fact.

Yes, you are correct, I see a pattern of people who are more often then not desperately disappointed because of their rigid expectations, rigid criteria of what makes something entertainment and inability to just allow themselves be entertained.

And it is the exact same thing. Either you change the way you look at GOT or you will be disappointed for the rest of the series, so why bother even watching? I think most people are enjoying the new strategy, you are only going to spend the rest of the series lamenting the change in style and letting people know how disappointed you are. I am saying you are better served lowering your expectations and trying to enjoy it. Far more satisfying then spending the next 12 months picking out negative things that annoy you .

team_actimel

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I had to Google it..it means 'go **** yourself'. :eek:

charlieIRL

Few theories I have after watching last few episodes and especially this one.

The Waif killed Ayra in the house of Black & White and took her face. She's continuing on killing as per Ayra's list. So nobody is safe from her.

John Snow being brought back from the dead, he's like a living white walker now, wasn't it his mad idea to go north of the wall? And not killed when surrounded on the lake? This was to get a dragon to the Night King.

The Night King can use his new ice breathing dragon (presumably) to freeze the sea at Eastwatch?

Also, John Snow's got everyone together in one place as per the trailed for final episode. All the major players, perfect spot for the Night King to kill them all??

Maybe I should put this in the speculation thread.

SafeSurfer

Can the nk think strategically and attack kings landing with his new dragon while dany and cersei are negotiating. Cersei would assume treachery on Danys part thus preventing a unified force combining against him.

expectationlost

so the whites couldn't traverse the the lake until it froze again?

tobsey

charlieIRL wrote: »

Few theories I have after watching last few episodes and especially this one.

The Waif killed Ayra in the house of Black & White and took her face. She's continuing on killing as per Ayra's list. So nobody is safe from her.

John Snow being brought back from the dead, he's like a living white walker now, wasn't it his mad idea to go north of the wall? And not killed when surrounded on the lake? This was to get a dragon to the Night King.

The Night King can use his new ice breathing dragon (presumably) to freeze the sea at Eastwatch?

Also, John Snow's got everyone together in one place as per the trailed for final episode. All the major players, perfect spot for the Night King to kill them all??

Maybe I should put this in the speculation thread.

I'm pretty sure we saw Arya remove the maid's face when she killed Frey. I think it would be a stretch that she was wearing Arya's face who has then wore more faces.

Ann22

empacher wrote:

presumably theres no point trying to rally three armies to kingslanding.

biggebruv wrote:

people say game of thrones hasn't really killed anyone major lately but I think that's a major death in my eyes so sad please don't kill any more lol

I was on the verge of tears!! I couldn't bear another one to die.

expectationlost

was DAni doing the Queenish I can't show emotion thing as he child plummets to the ground or can she not act?

lawred2

team_actimel wrote: »

I had to Google it..it means 'go **** yourself'. :eek:

that came across more aggressively than intended - probably should have added an old smiley

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Drumpot wrote: »

Yes, you are correct, I see a pattern of people who are more often then not desperately disappointed because of their rigid expectations, rigid criteria of what makes something entertainment and inability to just allow themselves be entertained.

And it is the exact same thing. Either you change the way you look at GOT or you will be disappointed for the rest of the series, so why bother even watching? I think most people are enjoying the new strategy, you are only going to spend the rest of the series lamenting the change in style and letting people know how disappointed you are. I am saying you are better served lowering your expectations and trying to enjoy it. Far more satisfying then spending the next 12 months picking out negative things that annoy you .

These "rigid expectations and criteria" have been set out by the show over the first few seasons. We're not monkeys that are just going to enjoy everything regardless of the standard.

What's (far) worse that the people who complain about the show are the people who complain about people complaining (and yes, I see the irony in my post). This is a discussion forum after all, where people can discuss the show, not just fawn over it. Maybe you should adjust your rigid expectations and criteria of what a discussion board is, otherwise you're just going to spend the rest of the series disappointed by these threads.

team_actimel

expectationlost wrote: »

was DAni doing the Queenish I can't show emotion thing as he child plummets to the ground or can she not act?

I think she was more stunned than anything and you could see the emotion on her face.

Pugzilla

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It was a genuine question as there's been nothing as definitive as that, as far as I can recall, even though it's a natural assumption, in either the show or the books, so thanks for the response. You don't get any thanks for being a sarky arse about things though.

I thought MMA fighters didn't have feelings?

Drumpot

expectationlost wrote: »

so the whites couldn't traverse the the lake until it froze again?

One explanation might be that the WW king is waiting for the Dragon to come so he can get his hands on one. Perhaps The hound was meant to throw that stone at that time (fate) and the wwS were meant to attack just before the cavalry arrived.

I feel GOT has a sense of Fate (Prophecy) and fantasy at its core.

Pugzilla

Drumpot wrote: »

I feel GOT has a sense of Fate (Prophecy) and fantasy at its core.

More like the shltty writing of D&D.

poundhound

Am I the only one noticing the actor playing the Night King has changed?
The new guy just doesn't look right.

homerun_homer

charlieIRL wrote: »

The Waif killed Ayra in the house of Black & White and took her face. She's continuing on killing as per Ayra's list. So nobody is safe from her.

Jaqen H'ghar and the viewers saw the waif's face hanging in that finale where Arya decides she's leaving.

poundhound wrote: »

Am I the only one noticing the actor playing the Night King has changed?
The new guy just doesn't look right.

Yeah it's a different actor, I had to look it up too to be sure. Richard Brake, who was in Batman Begins, and a few other things, plays him. I think the new guy doesn't look as bad ass playing him. I know he just has to stand there and look intimidating but he had a far better look about him at Hardhome, the last episode Richard Brake played him.

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expectationlost

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cgi versus actor + cgi?

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

I think you have hit the nail on the head here with most of what you said.

Still thoroughly entertaining to watch but it does feel rushed due to the little time they have left to wrap it up.

Now I don't think it's gotten as bad as some seem to think but it has lost a little something.

Its not as bad as some are making it out to be but when people are claiming this is the best ever episode? It's hard not to retort with hyperbole.

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MisterAnarchy

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The new guys feet look weird ,really turned out and his shoes look like something out of the Paul Galvin catalogue.

tedpan

Who thinks the white walker dragon will be all fixed and brand new in the next episode?

The spear ripped his bowels open. If he was a human who was turned they'd still be ripped out.

Let's wait and see....

AlmightyCushion

tedpan wrote: »

Who thinks the white walker dragon will be all fixed and brand new in the next episode?

The spear ripped his bowels open. If he was a human who was turned they'd still be ripped out.

Let's wait and see....

I don't remember the spear going anywhere near his bowels. It hit him in the neck.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Drumpot wrote: »

Yes, you are correct, I see a pattern of people who are more often then not desperately disappointed because of their rigid expectations, rigid criteria of what makes something entertainment and inability to just allow themselves be entertained.

A rigid expectation of it being good?

Alien Covenant is objectively a bad film, while Alien is a good one. The fact that you may have enjoyed it doesn't change this fact. Transformers 5 is also not a good movie, but some people say that they don't care if it's trash, they still like it. Bully for them.

I don't care about Sharknado or Birdemic. They are terrible movies, but if people like them that's great. But I think it's legitimate for fans to complain when terrible sequels are released to things which they are a fan of. It's one thing though when it's something like Indiana Jones and Crystal Skull, which is just tacked onto an already complete series, and a series which still hasn't reached its conclusion.

OneOfThem Stumbled

tedpan wrote: »

Who thinks the white walker dragon will be all fixed and brand new in the next episode?

The spear ripped his bowels open. If he was a human who was turned they'd still be ripped out.

Let's wait and see....

It's been shown that wights can function with lots of missing appendages.

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JamboMac

You'll only see the dragon near the end of the episode, can't see the wall standing for long.

muckwarrior

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Maybe, but I'm pretty sure I recall fire exploding from his chest. Doesn't really matter though. A missing pancreas or liver doesn't seem to bother the rest of them too much.

team_actimel

The new Night King looks like Tywin.

JamboMac

muckwarrior wrote: »

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure I recall fire exploding from his chest. Doesn't really matter though. A missing pancreas or liver doesn't seem to bother the rest of them too much.

Sure remember the bear half his flesh was missing and his ribs were out.

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

Yes, you are correct, I see a pattern of people who are more often then not desperately disappointed because of their rigid expectations, rigid criteria of what makes something entertainment and inability to just allow themselves be entertained.

And it is the exact same thing. Either you change the way you look at GOT or you will be disappointed for the rest of the series, so why bother even watching? I think most people are enjoying the new strategy, you are only going to spend the rest of the series lamenting the change in style and letting people know how disappointed you are. I am saying you are better served lowering your expectations and trying to enjoy it. Far more satisfying then spending the next 12 months picking out negative things that annoy you .

I find this bizarre. Am I supposed to actively repress my own thoughts? I can't help but find inconsistencies or terrible tropes if they're blatantly obvious.

If this season was the first season, there is a good chance I would stop watching tbh.

muckwarrior

JamboMac wrote: »

Sure remember the bear half his flesh was missing and his ribs were out.

Indeed. It's entirely possible the purpose of the bear scene was to remind people how animals can be undead too.

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MisterAnarchy

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In a behind the scenes video for the episode Weiss and Benioff said that they had been trying to get a zombie polar bear into the show for the last four seasons but they kept getting told no ,due to budgetary constraints.
Its at the 4 minute mark.

Its a very interesting video ,they converted a quarry in Belfast into the frozen Lake,a huge job.

Even the director of the episode admitted that they were stretching plausibility with the timeline in this episode.
They were only on the lake for one night

“We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy,” Taylor told Variety. “We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.”
“It’s cool that the show is so important to so many people that it’s being scrutinized so thoroughly,” he continued. “If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/

JamboMac

Will we see hodoor as a zombie at some point? We've seen giants.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

I find this bizarre. Am I supposed to actively repress my own thoughts? I can't help but find inconsistencies or terrible tropes if they're blatantly obvious.

If this season was the first season, there is a good chance I would stop watching tbh.

Who said anything about repressing your thoughts or not writing down what you don't like? It just seems to be a common theme that some people are constantly writing more about what they don't like about shows/movies then celebrating the elements that they enjoy. .

I have stopped watching plenty of shows that I wasn't enjoying (like Walking dead on series 5), I don't get why people would continue to watch GOT if they felt so vehemently against the direction its taken. And being invested in the show is no excuse, this is the way its going to be for the next year, so its your choice to watch it. The question is, are you going to watch it and spend the next year whinging about what it failed to do or are you going to try and watch it and enjoy whatever elements you are watching it for ?

I think most people see the inconsistencies and not so great things that you mention but many of us choose not to let that get in the way of enjoying the programme. A person can enjoy the show and at the same time see parts of it that aren't perfect.

Pugzilla

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More likely one of the carotid or vertebral arteries. Veins don't spurt blood like that, the blood has to be under high pressure.

Yeah, I know this is a TV show, but still.

JamboMac

A bit of an odd question, but are dragons cold blooded like the cooling system in your car as obviously breeding fire of a couple of thousand degrees?

MOH

Drumpot wrote: »

Who said anything about repressing your thoughts or not writing down what you don't like? It just seems to be a common theme that some people are constantly writing more about what they don't like about shows/movies then celebrating the elements that they enjoy. .

I have stopped watching plenty of shows that I wasn't enjoying (like Walking dead on series 5), I don't get why people would continue to watch GOT if they felt so vehemently against the direction its taken. And being invested in the show is no excuse, this is the way its going to be for the next year, so its your choice to watch it. The question is, are you going to watch it and spend the next year whinging about what it failed to do or are you going to try and watch it and enjoy whatever elements you are watching it for ?

I think most people see the inconsistencies and not so great things that you mention but many of us choose not to let that get in the way of enjoying the programme. A person can enjoy the show and at the same time see parts of it that aren't perfect.

And I don't see why people would just accept a massive drop in quality as not even being worthy of comment, but each to their own.

Also, how do you know what the show is going to be like for the next year? Have you somehow access to leaked episodes that haven't been filmed yet?

I think many people see the inconsistencies and suddenly paper-thin characters and feel them worth of discussion, on a discussion forum.


Back on topic, was there some reason Jon and co didn't bring horses? I'd guess it could be argued that it might make more likely to be noticed by the dead, I can't see any other reason.

(On a related note, is Benjen's horse dead or an actual living horse?
What's it been eating?)

Mousewar

Drumpot wrote: »

l I don't get why people would continue to watch GOT if they felt so vehemently against the direction its taken. And being invested in the show is no excuse

Of course it is. That's what invested means.

Vojera

I've just had a thought. I was so annoyed during the Arya/Sansa confrontation that it has only occurred to me now. Was the dagger that Arya gave to Sansa the one belonging to Littlefinger? If so, I imagine that will be somehow significant. Otherwise why do it at all?

I'm hoping it indicates that the sisters are in cahoots because the whole "all I need is your face!" thing was weird.

Edit:

maybe Arya telling Sansa that she can take LF's face and take his place?

Yester

MOH wrote: »

(On a related note, is Benjen's horse dead or an actual living horse?
What's it been eating?)

I think it eats the heads that Benjen knocks off.

drkpower

Drumpot wrote: »

It just seems to be a common theme that some people are constantly writing more about what they don't like about shows/movies then celebrating the elements that they enjoy.

Criticising something or someone is a cheap and easy way to feel a bit better about yourself. Praising something or someone just doesn't reach the same spot.