Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

Nody

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Nody

Mod:
Note that this thread has been opened early and do contain spoilers; you are now thrice warned that there are spoilers from the early release in this thread after this post! Note if you are waiting until Sunday/Monday to watch the show do not read further in this thread.































































... You were warned.

CMOTDibbler

So...

I'm going to have a hot shower now because I absolutely froze during that episode.

Tazzimus

Which dragon was that? Not Drogon obviously.
They all look the same colour now..

GerB40

Holy fúck. Now that was some episode... Even though so many characters are considered 'safe' because the plot needs them, any character could've died beyond the wall and I wouldn't have been surprised. The jeopardy felt real and any death wouldn't have felt cheap. I could nit pick and say Benjen popping up in the nick of time was too convenient but why else would they have brought him back. He's saved Bran and Jon so I'd say his work is done.

I'm not a fan of the Arya/Sansa stuff. They really seem to be pushing the sense of dread that one will kill the other. Of course it might happen but I think Littefinger might have pushed his luck. Arya left The Faceless Men after claiming "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell". Surely she hasn't already forgotten that..

Easily one of the best episodes so far, a very solid 9/10 in my opinion.

Nody

Am I the only one annoyed by the teleportation fields?
Timeline:
Bastard arrives to wall at evening day 1 to send a raven the distance it takes 3 months to sail
Morning after about 12h later not only has the raven arrived south but Danerys has flown north as well with all the dragons, talk about having some rockets attached to their backs to make that timeline work

And to add icing (Ha!) to the cake only one person died sleeping out in the significant sub zeroes all night long without any proper protection along with Danerys who somehow is unaffected by the cold...

GerB40

Nody wrote: »

Am I the only one annoyed by the teleportation fields?
Timeline:
Bastard arrives to wall at evening day 1 to send a raven the distance it takes 3 months to sail
Morning after about 12h later not only has the raven arrived south but Danerys has flown north as well with all the dragons, talk about having some rockets attached to their backs to make that timeline work

And to add icing (Ha!) to the cake only one person died sleeping out in the significant sub zeroes all night long without any proper protection along with Danerys who somehow is unaffected by the cold...

I've trained myself to not get annoyed by the flexible timelines in the show a long time ago. What takes one character a month to travel takes another a few hours as needed by the plot. It's best not to think about it...

Tazzimus

Nody wrote: »

Am I the only one annoyed by the teleportation fields?
Timeline:
Bastard arrives to wall at evening day 1 to send a raven the distance it takes 3 months to sail
Morning after about 12h later not only has the raven arrived south but Danerys has flown north as well with all the dragons, talk about having some rockets attached to their backs to make that timeline work

And to add icing (Ha!) to the cake only one person died sleeping out in the significant sub zeroes all night long without any proper protection along with Danerys who somehow is unaffected by the cold...

I imagine sitting on something that breathes fire means you're generally kept warm

CMOTDibbler

Nody wrote: »

Am I the only one annoyed by the teleportation fields?
Timeline:
Bastard arrives to wall at evening day 1 to send a raven the distance it takes 3 months to sail
Morning after about 12h later not only has the raven arrived south but Danerys has flown north as well with all the dragons, talk about having some rockets attached to their backs to make that timeline work

And to add icing (Ha!) to the cake only one person died sleeping out in the significant sub zeroes all night long without any proper protection along with Danerys who somehow is unaffected by the cold...

I think sitting on a dragon gives you the warm fuzzies. You're basically sitting on an oven.

As for the three months travel... I am so tired of telling people to look at a map and look up the speed of sailing ships in mediaeval times. Even back in the days of the Greeks, sailing ships could do 1000 mile trips in 8 or 9 days.

The raven/dragon trip did seem a trifle compressed alright, I'll give you that.

EagererBeaver

Ho. Lee. ****.

Nothing unexpected happened, just wasn't expecting it all in this episode!

Really though, the Night King is a jobber and you have three dragons. Just converge on him and burn everything.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Ho. Lee. ****.

Nothing unexpected happened, just wasn't expecting it all in this episode!

Really though, the Night King is a jobber and you have three dragons. Just converge on him and burn everything.

The Night King doesn't seem to be bothered by flames. Certainly the white walkers walked through them en route to Hodor.

turnikett1

I enjoyed it but it still seemed a bit gammy. I genuinely chuckled when they threw the sack over the wight's head! It just seemed so ridiculous, the whole thing. Even Jon admitting they probably shouldn't have gone on such a "stupid" mission. Still though, I enjoyed it way more than the last episode. The Arya/Sansa plot is interesting but I have honestly no idea where it's gonna go. Why is Arya so weird now? I guess after Harrenhal and being part of a foreign assassin death-cult will do things to ya.

It's great to see so much White Walker action though, I love those guys and the whole Other buzz. I can't wait to find out what it's all about, what does it all mean!? Heard some very interesting theories that the White Walkers are an allegory of the plague/Black Death.

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The Night King doesn't seem to be bothered by flames. Certainly the white walkers walked through them en route to Hodor.

Dragon fire though.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Dragon fire though.

No evidence that this is fatal to them yet.

Edit: I wonder is this the law of unintended consequences come back to bite them in the arse? THe Night King has a dragon now and as we saw, dragons can melt ice and the wall is made of ice...

EagererBeaver

Why was the Wight they captured will intact when Jon killed the white walker leading them? Conveniently raised by another one?

turnikett1

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Why was the Wight they captured will intact when Jon killed the white walker leading them? Conveniently raised by another one?

It was wearing plot armour. Or perhaps only the wights that that Walker re-animated die?

CMOTDibbler

turnikett1 wrote: »

It was wearing plot armour. Or perhaps only the wights that that Walker re-animated die?

That's pretty much exactly what they said. Apart from the plot armour bit, that is.

heebusjeebus

turnikett1 wrote: »

It was wearing plot armour. Or perhaps only the wights that that Walker re-animated die?

Ya, think that was mentioned. That wight was in the wrong platoon when they got amushed.

EagererBeaver

Lucky break there lads.

bur

Don't like where Arya and Sansa are headed. Bran needs to step in(pun intended).

Dany and Tryion's set-to was really well done.

Not much else happened, bit of a slow episode.

turnikett1

bur wrote: »

Don't like where Arya and Sansa are headed. Bran needs to step in(pun intended).

Dany and Tryion's set-to was really well done.

Not much else happened, bit of a slow episode.

Errr...?

Dyr

So the ice pop king flies over the wall with his frost dragon and starts creating new armies of the dead with its frosty breath.

Meanwhile the dickhead sisters in winterfell try to kill each other because they fail to see the bigger picture and the loonytunes queen in kings landing also fails to see the bigger picture

The moral of all this might be don't leave wimmen in charge

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Lucky break there lads.

Meh, there were thousands of the feckers surrounding them on the ice. Bit of rope and lasso one of them and you've the same result.

EagererBeaver

Night King seems to be a bit of a ****e military commander I have to say. His army is the definition of dispensable. Did he really need to wait for the Hound to **** a rock at one of them to think about the ice being frozen?

CMOTDibbler

I obviously can't put this in the speculation thread, so I'll spoiler tag the speculative bits for everyone. It's pure speculation based on what we've seen so far and especially from this episode.

Firstly, we now know why the Night King has been hanging about north of the wall for so long. We could clearly see small platoons and larger companies of wights heading towards a kind of staging point. But as I thought of that, it occurred to me that the Night King has much the same abilities as Bran. He can at least see the present and the past and even interact with other seers.

So was he waiting for the dragons to cross the wall? He had the throwing spears prepared and possibly even the chains. Not necessarily to pull a dragon from the lake, but it's certainly a possibility. We know the dragons can melt ice and the wall is made of ice. A dragon is feck all use to him unless he can get the rest of his army across the wall.

EagererBeaver

Kill off someone that matters please ffs. Thoros was a complete jobber and I'm only disappointed he didn't die earlier. Bald ****. What was point of them rescuing him only to kill him off a few scenes later? Bald **** twice. Beric can **** off too.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Kill off someone that matters please ffs. Thoros was a complete jobber and I'm only disappointed he didn't die earlier. Bald ****. What was point of them rescuing him only to kill him off a few scenes later? Bald **** twice. Beric can **** off too.

I thought beavers were herbivores? :pac:

Viserion and Benjen Stark do not like this post :eek:

Edit: Beric clearly has something fairly massive to do. All that build up can't end with him being squished by a dead polar bear.

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I thought beavers were herbivores? :pac:

Viserion and Benjen Stark do not like this post :eek:

Edit: Beric clearly has something fairly massive to do. All that build up can't end with him being squished by a dead polar bear.

Viserion was the wee pansy of the litter from the beginning. He's far cooler (geddit?!) now.

Coldbenjen another nothing character.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Viserion was the wee pansy of the litter from the beginning. He's far cooler (geddit?!) now.

Coldbenjen another nothing character.

Ah, Coldhands was as cool as they come. His fiery censer was a great weapon against wights and there was always that touch of mystery about him. I'll certainly miss him.

I never really got to know Viserion, but I'm sure his brothers miss him terribly. I'm already imagining their confusion when he flies again.

EagererBeaver

Coldhands was cool (the mission to kill the mutineers at Craster's, using "Locke," is one of the deviations from the books that annoyed me most, especially as they ended up somewhat retaining the coldhands character) but Coldbenjen was a bit meh.

Viserion really has a chance to come into his own and start main eventing now he's turned heel and left his stable. They'll build him up for a bit as unstoppable I think, then bam, he'll lose his title shot at Westerosmania.

EagererBeaver

One other thing, Sansa actually referring to the "Battle of the Bastards" really, really annoyed me.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

One other thing, Sansa actually referring to the "Battle of the Bastards" really, really annoyed me.

Yeah. I noted other people (Hot Pie for one) calling it that too. It's a bit too fourth wall breaking for my liking. The Battle for Winterfell would have been better coming from Sansa even if common parlance has it named otherwise.

A bit jarring. But I suppose they have to call it something and it's easily recognised by audiences.

And before you say audiences aren't that unobservant, read some of the questions people ask after an episode on here. :rolleyes:

Daith

EagererBeaver wrote: »

One other thing, Sansa actually referring to the "Battle of the Bastards" really, really annoyed me.

In two minds here. It sounds like something the small folk might say but they've been breaking the 4th wall quite a bit now.

Why would Sansa need to go to Kings Landing? To see a wight? She believes Jon and Bran? Jon is going to be there in any case. He can speak on behalf of the entire North.

I think Arya already played her game with Sansa at the start. Not sure what's going on but nothing feels right about their scenes.

The Night King was clearly waiting on a dragon. Do they just have massive chains lying around?

Paddy Cow

When Jon went into the water I thought for sure he was a gonner and would come back to fly the ice dragon. What a curve ball that would've been :eek:

Paddy Cow

Daith wrote: »

In two minds here. It sounds like something the small folk might say but they've been breaking the 4th wall quite a bit now.

The Hound made a comment recently about the red priest's "top knot". That was really jarring as it's a modern hipster thing. I can accept they would call it the battle of the bastards because that's basically what it was.

Why would Sansa need to go to Kings Landing? To see a wight? She believes Jon and Bran?

The whole thing was weird. LF told her that Brienne would have her back against Arya and Brienne is probably the only person in Winterfell Sansa can trust 100%. Why would she send Brienne away and to KL of all places? It makes absolutely no sense She could have sent Cersi a PFO by raven.

I think Arya already played her game with Sansa at the start. Not sure what's going on but nothing feels right about their scenes.

This storyline is getting on my nerves. Arya should be smart enough to be all over LF like a rash and her seeming hatred of Sansa is ridiculous. Sansa going to LF for counsel is also ridiculous. She was showing real growth and emerging as someone who could be a match for him and this is regressing her character.

The Night King was clearly waiting on a dragon. Do they just have massive chains lying around?

For the plot the Night King needed a dragon but the way he got it was just plain fcuking stupid. "Hey guys, instead of laying siege to KL and taking the throne after we basically toasted all the food and a good portion of the Lannister army and destroying House Tarly, lets go on a suicide mission to get a wight to convince the person we plan to overthrow anyways to call a truce." :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Paddy Cow

Oh and why didn't the Night's King spear Drogon? He was the nearest dragon, grounded and carrying a lot of people on his back who would've died if he did.

This show is going the way of the Walking Dead for me. Started off brilliantly but the quality has dipped and there's so many plot holes that I just can't defend it the way I used to. I'll watch because I've invested in it and I want to know how it ends but I'm not as excited about it anymore

Daith

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Oh and why didn't the Night's King spear Drogon? He was the nearest dragon, grounded and carrying a lot of people on his back who would've died if he did.

This show is going the way of the Walking Dead for me. Started off brilliantly but the quality has dipped and there's so many plot holes that I just can't defend it the way I used to. I'll watch because I've invested in it and I want to know how it ends but I'm not as excited about it anymore

Good point about drogon. Also where did Rhaegal disappear to after Viserion died.

I guess the reason it started of great was the source material. I'm not hating this season but noticeable dip in quality.

CMOTDibbler

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Oh and why didn't the Night's King spear Drogon? He was the nearest dragon, grounded and carrying a lot of people on his back who would've died if he did.

Drogon's wings were covering his vital spots I thought. He hit Viserion in the side, looked like it hit his heart.

Liamalone

I'm willing to overlook some things that don't quite make sense but the motley cruel and their lack of dragonglass is odd.

Great episode, lots of wee funnies at the start.

CMOTDibbler

Liamalone wrote: »

I'm willing to overlook some things that don't quite make sense but the motley cruel and their lack of dragonglass is odd.

Great episode, lots of wee funnies at the start.

I thought some of them had dragonglass daggers? Fairly sure Jorah had one that he killed the bear with.

Somebody mentioned that Gendry was possibly pulled in for his smithing prowess to make weapons from it. I imagine small shards of it are only good close in and that they need to develop swords from it. Or even re-invent Valyrian steel.

Daith

Sansa's "I've all the guards I need/I'm safe here" is definitely going to bite her

Paddy Cow

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Drogon's wings were covering his vital spots I thought. He hit Viserion in the side, looked like it hit his heart.

I really want to believe this but I believe that the magic of his spear could pierce armour. He could also have thrown the second spear when Drogon was beginning to take off. It looked like Drogon was struggling a bit with the extra weight.

Paddy Cow

Daith wrote: »

Sansa's "I've all the guards I need/I'm safe here" is definitely going to bite her

She was totally bluffing and Arya knew it. I don't know where Arya is going with the Sansa thing. Hopefully it will be cleared up in the next episode. Sansa was dead right though. Arya would not have survived in KL. She would've gotton herself killed.

Paddy Cow

Liamalone wrote: »

I'm willing to overlook some things that don't quite make sense but the motley cruel and their lack of dragonglass is odd.

Great episode, lots of wee funnies at the start.

They used their swords at long range and dragon glass at close range.

CMOTDibbler

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I really want to believe this but I believe that the magic of his spear could pierce armour. He could also have thrown the second spear when Drogon was beginning to take off. It looked like Drogon was struggling a bit with the extra weight.

True. But then Drogon wasn't actively burning his troops like Viserion was.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

She was totally bluffing and Arya knew it. I don't know where Arya is going with the Sansa thing. Hopefully it will be cleared up in the next episode. Sansa was dead right though. Arya would not have survived in KL. She would've gotton herself killed.

I saw that as Arya testing Sansa. Just pushing her to see how she'd handle it. And Sansa handled it very well. A test of trust. Sansa didn't back off when Arya picked up the dagger and walked towards her talking about taking her face. So Arya then handed her the dagger as a sign of trust too.

At least that's how I saw it.

Also sending Brienne away was interesting. LF was pushiing Brienne as some kind of weapon against Arya and immediately Sansa sends her away. Is that a rejection of LF and his scheming?

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

True. But then Drogon wasn't actively burning his troops like Viserion was.

Huh? He was still burning them after he landed.

Paddy Cow

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

True. But then Drogon wasn't actively burning his troops like Viserion was.


I saw that as Arya testing Sansa. Just pushing her to see how she'd handle it. And Sansa handled it very well. A test of trust. Sansa didn't back off when Arya picked up the dagger and walked towards her talking about taking her face. So Arya then handed her the dagger as a sign of trust too.

At least that's how I saw it.

Also sending Brienne away was interesting. LF was pushiing Brienne as some kind of weapon against Arya and immediately Sansa sends her away. Is that a rejection of LF and his scheming?

If Arya and Sansa can truly trust each other and be a team, they would be formidable. Arya is a trained assassin and Sansa has a very good political mind. They would make mince meat of LF.

Daith

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Also sending Brienne away was interesting. LF was pushiing Brienne as some kind of weapon against Arya and immediately Sansa sends her away. Is that a rejection of LF and his scheming?

It seemed so cold? "I'm not walking into a trap, here Brienne you go. Don't worry, the guy who crippled my brother is there".

I guess she might have sent Brienne away so Littlefinger couldn't manipulate Brienne?

J. Marston

Sansa is looking at the bigger picture and while she may be jealous of Jon's status, she won't betray him.

Liamalone

Paddy Cow wrote: »

They used their swords at long range and dragon glass at close range.

Not much difference between long range and close range really. As mentioned, Jorah might have had one when killing the bear.

But in the fighting they all used swords apart from Jorah and the Hound - he ditched Gendry's hammer for a wee hatchet or summat.

Podge_irl

What is the raven to Dany supposed to have said?

"There are white walkers up here"

Well duh...that's why you went up there.

It all just seems incredibly lazy at this point and characters being saved out of nowhere at the last minute is getting tedious. Even mentioning the timing issues seems pointless - it has gone so far past farcical you may as well just laugh at it.

They're doing a lot of things very well still and it looks gorgeous. It just comes across like they have some set piece battles in mind but no real idea of how to get to them.