Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

turnikett1

Podge_irl wrote: »

What is the raven to Dany supposed to have said?

"There are white walkers up here"

Well duh...that's why you went up there.

It all just seems incredibly lazy at this point and characters being saved out of nowhere at the last minute is getting tedious. Even mentioning the timing issues seems pointless - it has gone so far past farcical you may as well just laugh at it.

They're doing a lot of things very well still and it looks gorgeous. It just comes across like they have some set piece battles in mind but no real idea of how to get to them.

Yeah, seriously... Fair enough if they don't want to kill off characters, it's too late in the series to make new arcs or plots or whatever so most of the characters still alive are necessary. But why bother almost killing them if they're just gonna be miraculously saved anyways? I thought Benjen appearing at the very last second was reeeeeally lame.

My gripes that I had posted about episode 5 still stand. It's become a bit cheap and feels much more like a typical cliché fantasy work rather than the gritty ambiguous style of GoT-fantasy that we've become used to. I found myself cringing a little bit from time to time watching that episode. I get that they needed the WW and the dragons to have an interaction, no doubt that a dragon wight is a part of GRRM's script. But they reached that in the most ridiculous manner. Don't think I'll ever let go of this "potato sack-a-wight" suicide mission :P Again why the f**k is Mormont even there?

Anyway I'll stop because between the last thread and this post I don't want to come across as someone who hates season 7 and is a negative nancy. It's been one of the worse season for sure but all in all a bad season of GoT is still far better than all the other rubbish we're fed on TV!

y0ssar1an22

the brienne thing and LF....i thought LF manipulated the situation so sansa would sent her away. you remember that sansa looked jealous when brienne and arya were training, i think LF picked up on this. and he knows brienne wouldn't suffer any of his $hit. something along the lines of 'shes sworn to both stark daughters'. maybe sansa thinks brienne would favour arya over her?

whats frustrating for me is why cant sansa and arya confront LF together, include bran as well. an open conversation between them all would have LF ****ed. he preys on mis information, and people not having a candid conversation.

enjoyable episode all the same. enjoyed all the one to ones between the fellowship on their journey. and the hounds excessive use of *unt is excellent too!

Daith

Podge_irl wrote: »

What is the raven to Dany supposed to have said?

"There are white walkers up here"

Well duh...that's why you went up there.

I'm guessing
"We're completely surrounded. Need aerial support. Bring dragons pls"

Which is why Jon is apologetic for a dragon dying?

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Daith

....... wrote: »

What is blue eyed dragon going to breathe now? Frost rather than fire?

Either fire and the wall goes down or ice and they're freezing the sea beside Eastwatch?

EagererBeaver

Dany really needs to work on her attack strategy. She just swoops into the middle of things and arbitrarily burns groups at a time. Think about it a bit more, woman!

Edit: ****ing phone.

The White Wolf

I thought thought Emilia and Kit were great in this episode. Dany for the first time in awhile was a worthy Queen while I loved Jon's genuine sorrow at Viserion's death. They really are great together on screen.

Pleasantly surprised to see Beric survived as the spoilers I read suggested he died here alongside Thoros.

Sucks now that Viserion has joined the Night King's army though it was almost worth it to see the initial evisceration of the wights by dragon fire. Awesome moment.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The whole thing was weird. LF told her that Brienne would have her back against Arya and Brienne is probably the only person in Winterfell Sansa can trust 100%. Why would she send Brienne away and to KL of all places? It makes absolutely no sense She could have sent Cersi a PFO by raven.


This storyline is getting on my nerves. Arya should be smart enough to be all over LF like a rash and her seeming hatred of Sansa is ridiculous. Sansa going to LF for counsel is also ridiculous. She was showing real growth and emerging as someone who could be a match for him and this is regressing her character.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Also sending Brienne away was interesting. LF was pushiing Brienne as some kind of weapon against Arya and immediately Sansa sends her away. Is that a rejection of LF and his scheming?

I interpreted that as Sansa getting Brienne out of the way in case she feels she needs to make a move against Arya, which Brienne would stop.

I can juust about buy Arya and Sansa being so easily played by LF. They never got along, haven't seen each other in ages, Arya is hugely loyal to Jon and knows she never liked him when they were all at Winterfell, and Sansa has doubts about Jon and his decisions and knows that Arya is now super dangerous and has a murder list she's making good progress through. Not a huge amount of groundwork has been laid on screen for making it all ring true though, but when you rationalise it in your head it at least makes some sort of sense, which you can't say for everything or even most things the last while. There's no clear sense of how the fcuk long anyone's supposed to have been in any one place but I can get a feel for how in GRRM's hands or in an earlier season that might have been a convincing, slow burning arc.

Good episode though, liked the bantering at the start and there was a real sense of peril when Tormund nearly died. Dragon's death was really well conceived, last shot was cheesy as fcuk but I still liked it

Paddy Cow

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The Hound made a comment recently about the red priest's "top knot". That was really jarring as it's a modern hipster thing.

Eh? It most certainly is not. It's been prevalent for men in many cultures for many centuries.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

True. But then Drogon wasn't actively burning his troops like Viserion was.


I saw that as Arya testing Sansa. Just pushing her to see how she'd handle it. And Sansa handled it very well. A test of trust. Sansa didn't back off when Arya picked up the dagger and walked towards her talking about taking her face. So Arya then handed her the dagger as a sign of trust too.

At least that's how I saw it.

Also sending Brienne away was interesting. LF was pushiing Brienne as some kind of weapon against Arya and immediately Sansa sends her away. Is that a rejection of LF and his scheming?

I really want to believe this post because I have no idea wtf the pair of them are at otherwise

maudgonner

bluewolf wrote: »

Eh? It most certainly is not. It's been prevalent for men in many cultures for many centuries.

Slagging someone for wearing their hair like that hasn't though. It did feel a bit like another crowd-pleaser to me, but I haven't minded them so much. Thormund's defense of gingers this week made me laugh

y0ssar1an22

what do people read into

jon calling dany dany, and her replying that her brother was the last to call her dany?

is it a targaryan thing?

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y0ssar1an22

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i donno. i saw a few posts were spoilered. didnt want to annoy anyone

Kunkka

Enjoyed the episode but not as much as episode 4.

So the Night King has been waiting to get a dragon all along, only reason they can't cross the "magical" wall. On Dany's fertility, maybe the red woman cures that on her last visit to Westeros as she said to Varys and that will be part of the happy ending. It was mentioned a lot for a reason I reckon.

The stuff in Winterfell was so ****ing boring! Ayra acting like Charles Manson's daughter is getting annoying, for me anyway.

I'm holding out hope against hope that sansa suddenly ran to LF because she and arya wanted to find out wtf his plan was, so once they found out he's on about brienne she sent her off. Or something. And the the latest fight was in case he's spying again.
I don't know.

Daith

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

what do people read into

jon calling dany dany, and her replying that her brother was the last to call her dany?

is it a targaryan thing?

"The last person to call me Dany was a family member"

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y0ssar1an22

watching again

LF to sansa: 'if 1 stark girl wanted to hurt the other woulnt brienne be honor vound to intercede?' (paraphrsing)

Sansa: She would


arya offers sansa the dagger, my read on this is arya has no plan to hurt sana.


sansa sends brienne away. ergo, sansa is planning something on arya

y0ssar1an22

Daith wrote: »

"The last person to call me Dany was a family member"

that sounds about right

Pete Moss

Great episode, but it wasn't up there with some of the other penultimate episodes. Still though I thoroughly enjoyed it. As soon as all three dragons took off, I think everyone knew what was going to happen.

Mo 'Gendry' Farrah certainly runs faster than he rows

Am I right in saying The Hound is on his way to KL with Jon & Dany? Also, reason no. 1,457 to love The Hound: He saved Thormund!

mewso

Dare I say it but sharks and acrobatics are starting to enter my thoughts now.

Arya is no longer the character we grew to love. The writers are so in love with her being a "badass" they have ruined her.

This plan to capture a wight has entered the terrible ideas hall of fame.

All wights bar one fall when the white walker is killed. Very convenient.
Jon turns to Gendry. "Run to Eastwatch and send a raven. Tell them we are about to be surrounded in such a way we can last oh, I don't know, lets say a day. How do I know that? Just go with the flow man. There are dragons and undead in this world so you know.."
4 redshirts and Denis Pennis are the only casualties when completely surrounded by 100s of the dead. They should all have been done for in seconds.
OK pay attention youtubers they are about to die so get ready to cheer as the most unsurprising savior is about to appear in the nick of time.
White Walker grabs spear. Hmm should I aim for the largest dragon? The one that isn't moving and has all my enemies sitting on his back. Nah I like a challenge. Lets go for that one in the air moving at speed.
Jon on his own. Wait a minute theres Uncle Benjen coming out of the shower. It was all a dream.

What has happened to this show? It is almost completely devoted to providing source material for the React Channels on youtube.

martingriff

I have not seen the episode scanned the last 2 pages before realizing but in relation to LF do not forget he commands an army that saved them against the Boltons so they need to be careful. He may have made alliances with others in winterfell so if Sansa and Arya suspect anything they would have to be careful. Maybe Brienne leaving is a ploy

Hans Bricks

I'll actually say, the physics breaking time warp of Gendry running back to the wall, sending a raven to Dragonstone, Dany travelling at light speed to the wall ....

Could they not have just brought her to Eastwatch with the dragons initially to wait on standby there in case the **** hit the fan ?

Anyway, that aside, exhilarating episode. Any major screentime the WW's get is always so satisfying.

Great theory shoutout with the giant chains and the Night King's Greenseer foresight and the ultimate plan for taking down the wall too ! Was wondering where they came out of.

turnikett1

mewso wrote: »

Dare I say it but sharks and acrobatics are starting to enter my thoughts now.

Arya is no longer the character we grew to love. The writers are so in love with her being a "badass" they have ruined her.

This plan to capture a wight has entered the terrible ideas hall of fame.

All wights bar one fall when the white walker is killed. Very convenient.
Jon turns to Gendry. "Run to Eastwatch and send a raven. Tell them we are about to be surrounded in such a way we can last oh, I don't know, lets say a day. How do I know that? Just go with the flow man. There are dragons and undead in this world so you know.."
4 redshirts and Denis Pennis are the only casualties when completely surrounded by 100s of the dead. They should all have been done for in seconds.
OK pay attention youtubers they are about to die so get ready to cheer as the most unsurprising savior is about to appear in the nick of time.
White Walker grabs spear. Hmm should I aim for the largest dragon? The one that isn't moving and has all my enemies sitting on his back. Nah I like a challenge. Lets go for that one in the air moving at speed.
Jon on his own. Wait a minute theres Uncle Benjen coming out of the shower. It was all a dream.

What has happened to this show? It is almost completely devoted to providing source material for the React Channels on youtube.

The Uncle Benjen thing did it for me. I had come to accept it as a more typical high fantasy show than what it used to be and was ok with it, but Benjen Ex Machina was seriously sloppy writing! Why bother with that part? Why bother with Jon nearly getting killed at all? Why not just badly injured while escaping? The end scene with Dany would've been the same, and the whole thing would've looked a tad less silly.

Conall Cernach

I had hoped that Bran would have had some input into getting Dany north of the Wall instead of Marathon Man Gendry and the jet powered ravens. There could easily have been a scene of him watching what was happening and then getting in touch with Dany before the lads got stranded enabling her to make the journey in a more reasonable time frame. He has all this knowledge and power and has done nothing with it so far except freak out his sister.

Daith

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I had hoped that Bran would have had some input into getting Dany north of the Wall instead of Marathon Man Gendry and the jet powered ravens. There could easily have been a scene of him watching what was happening and then getting in touch with Dany before the lads got stranded enabling her to make the journey in a more reasonable time frame. He has all this knowledge and power and has done nothing with it so far except freak out his sister.

Yup, I was hoping Bran would be like Oracle from Batman. Keeping everyone in contact. Not needed at all. Though Bran being the Night King is appealing to me more now.

TheShow

Who fell off the rock/cliff into the waiting wights just before the dragons arrived. I thought it was the Hound initially, but he was in the next scene where they panned to all the characters. I re-watched the scene a few times and couldn't make out who it was.

Benjen out of nowhere was a bit ridiculous. Also, it was very nice of the wights to wait around patiently, for Jon Snow to fight off a few lads before they advanced on him.
There was only 6/7 of them in a circle with hundreds/thousands of wights who had them surrounded. The wights could have easily charged them and won, be a short episode then though....

TheShow

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I had hoped that Bran would have had some input into getting Dany north of the Wall instead of Marathon Man Gendry and the jet powered ravens. There could easily have been a scene of him watching what was happening and then getting in touch with Dany before the lads got stranded enabling her to make the journey in a more reasonable time frame. He has all this knowledge and power and has done nothing with it so far except freak out his sister.

probably watches her as she bathes!:D

Daith

TheShow wrote: »

.
There was only 6/7 of them in a circle with hundreds/thousands of wights who had them surrounded. The wights could have easily charged them and won, be a short episode then though....

Yes but then Dany wouldn't have stuck around with her dragons and the Night King wouldn't have got his Ice Dragon. All part of the plan.

y0ssar1an22

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I had hoped that Bran would have had some input into getting Dany north of the Wall instead of Marathon Man Gendry and the jet powered ravens. There could easily have been a scene of him watching what was happening and then getting in touch with Dany before the lads got stranded enabling her to make the journey in a more reasonable time frame. He has all this knowledge and power and has done nothing with it so far except freak out his sister.

great point. where was he this episode?

EagererBeaver

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

great point. where was he this episode?

Everywhere.

y0ssar1an22

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Everywhere.

can he warg into (say) tyrion and pass a message that way?

Dyr

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I'll actually say, the physics breaking time warp of Gendry running back to the wall, sending a raven to Dragonstone, Dany travelling at light speed to the wall ....

Could they not have just brought her to Eastwatch with the dragons initially to wait on standby there in case the **** hit the fan ?

Anyway, that aside, exhilarating episode. Any major screentime the WW's get is always so satisfying.

Great theory shoutout with the giant chains and the Night King's Greenseer foresight and the ultimate plan for taking down the wall too ! Was wondering where they came out of.

"I need proof of the night kings army"

"Why dont you ****ing fly up there on your dragon and have a look?"

It's like the eagles in lord of the rings all over again

MisterAnarchy

mewso wrote: »

What has happened to this show? It is almost completely devoted to providing source material for the React Channels on youtube.

The decision to reduce the series from 10 episodes to 7 was a terrible mistake.
In doing so they have reduced screen time that could be used to flesh out the story
They seem to be concentrating on large action scenes and basically saying if we give people big exciting action scenes people will forget about the massive plot holes and ridiculous decisions being taken by characters.
The series has jumped the shark

Euron can build a huge fleet of ships and sail them all the way from the Iron Islands to Kings Landing in what ,a few months .
Numerous characters travelling thousands of miles across enemy territories in days.
Bronn saving Jamie and they escape scot free and make it back to Kings Landing in a jiffy.
Daenarys and the dragons flying a thousand miles in hours .
Not to mention the Night King bringing down a dragon with a manually thrown spear :rolleyes:

turnikett1

'Twas some throw though to be fair!

I'm not sure how filming works. Would production for season 8 have already begun? If not, would it start after season 7 has finished? Because I really hope they can look back on this and learn and not have the final season ever be as ridiculous as this.

MisterAnarchy

turnikett1 wrote: »

'Twas some throw though to be fair!

I'm not sure how filming works. Would production for season 8 have already begun? If not, would it start after season 7 has finished? Because I really hope they can look back on this and learn and not have the final season ever be as ridiculous as this.

It seemed to hit Viserion in the neck ,so perhaps it hit his jugular vein .
I thought it was ridiculous to be honest .

They only have 6 episodes for the 8th season so its going to be even more helter skelter .
Whoever thought less episodes per series was a good idea was an imbecile.It wouldnt have cost HBO much more to make 10 episodes per series ,especially if it wasnt battle/cgi stuff.

CMOTDibbler

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Daenarys and the dragons flying a thousand miles in hours .

Ducks can fly at up to 60mph. Peregrine falcons can stoop at up to 200mph. I suspect that dragons can fairly shift if needed.

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ducks can fly at up to 60mph. Peregrine falcons can stoop at up to 200mph. I suspect that dragons can fairly shift if needed.

How 'bout dem ravens though?

This is a ridiculous discussion, everyone knows the timeline there is a joke. Yes, peregrine falcons can dive extremely quickly, flying almost vertically. Unless Drogon flew up to Eastwatch in a sine wave pattern, that's a bit pointless to bring up.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

How 'bout dem ravens though?

This is a ridiculous discussion, everyone knows the timeline there is a joke. Yes, peregrine falcons can dive extremely quickly, flying almost vertically. Unless Drogon flew up to Eastwatch in a sine wave pattern, that's a bit pointless to bring up.

'Everyone' was saying how the trip to Eastwatch would take months. They were so far wrong it was funny. So yeah, question stuff, but do it from a position of knowledge, not bandwagon jumping.

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

'Everyone' was saying how the trip to Eastwatch would take months. They were so far wrong it was funny. So yeah, question stuff, but do it from a position of knowledge, not bandwagon jumping.

Position of knowledge? You're banging on about peregrine falcons ffs.

I have no issue with the jumping timeline in the show as I'm aware we're not necessarily watching things chronologically, but that was a clear set of events one after the other - they send Gendry packing, he gets to Eastwatch and sends a raven, raven gets to Dragonstone, Dany makes it back up. That is ridiculous, whether you get out the measuring stick and speed gun or not.

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Position of knowledge? You're banging on about peregrine falcons ffs.

I have no issue with the jumping timeline in the show as I'm aware we're not necessarily watching things chronologically, but that was a clear set of events one after the other - they send Gendry packing, he gets to Eastwatch and sends a raven, raven gets to Dragonstone, Dany makes it back up. That is ridiculous, whether you get out the measuring stick and speed gun or not.

Ok, I'll play. Say a raven flies at the same speed as a duck. Gendry got to Eastwatch at nightfall, about 3-4pm in winter in these parts. As the raven flies, it's about 900 miles. So that's 15 hours. Arrives at Dragonstone about 6-7am. That leaves anything up to 9 hours for the dragons to get there.

Is that unbelievable?

Mr.Prodston

Against my better judgment I watched it, and was annoyed when Facebook was completely spoiler free, although I haven't checked Twitter yet, and Monday is still a long way away.

The dramatic pace of episode 3 was a novelty, the ending of episode 4 was just :eek:!!!!!! which gave episode 5 a pass for the minor details which I said I wasn't going to annoy, and for the most part they haven't.

But.

This entire episode just felt kind of....off? Something just not quite right?

Perhaps its because I've become accustomed to watching it on Sky on a Monday but I don't think it's that.

I was super excited having seen the trailer, but it all sort of felt like they were going through the motions. Perhaps the new frenetic pace has just caught up a little

That's not to say I didn't enjoy it because I mean we had 7 of the coolest mofos north of the Wall taking on the Night King and his minions. And how about that Ice Dragon?

Also the Sansa/Arya scenes feel so off and I really hope it's been deliberately done that way for some big reveal like Arya is wearing Littlefinger's face who is wearing Arya's own face :pac:

Anyway, stupid Spanish HBO for not allowing me a full week to process episode 5 and leaving me with so long for episode 7! It's beyond a joke that it's happened again for whatever reason!

RobbingBandit

That was some Olympic level javelin throwing from Night King, Jebus exciting episode rip Thoros life is no nintendo game for the lightning lord now, I swear to the gods I'll eat my hat if Gendry is not some sort of glamour, the dialogue between Tormund and The Hound was priceless, hackers release episode 7 please and let this season end before Friday so I can get on to watching The Defenders.

Mc Love

I thought it was better than 4 - was literally on the edge of my seat for most of it. At once stage when they were on the island, it looked a bit like the walking dead tv show

Dyr

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ducks can fly at up to 60mph. Peregrine falcons can stoop at up to 200mph. I suspect that dragons can fairly shift if needed.

Whats the GPS on them like?

Not bad navigating for a young wan who's just off the boat

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ok, I'll play. Say a raven flies at the same speed as a duck. Gendry got to Eastwatch at nightfall, about 3-4pm in winter in these parts. As the raven flies, it's about 900 miles. So that's 15 hours. Arrives at Dragonstone about 6-7am. That leaves anything up to 9 hours for the dragons to get there.

Is that unbelievable?

Yes

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Yes

:cool:

Liam O

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ok, I'll play. Say a raven flies at the same speed as a duck. Gendry got to Eastwatch at nightfall, about 3-4pm in winter in these parts. As the raven flies, it's about 900 miles. So that's 15 hours. Arrives at Dragonstone about 6-7am. That leaves anything up to 9 hours for the dragons to get there.

Is that unbelievable?

You've got to stop trying to justify everything. The raven flying from eastwatch in winter? Dany on standby and just knowing where to go? The whole eastwatch journey was silly as was the north being easily navigated while in winter. Took them a long time to get there and Gendry about an hour to sprint back. A raven from Dragonstone waiting. What would the note have said? Why wouldn't the army have just attacked and not go one at a time?

I've never been the show's biggest fan but at least there was some justification for the decisions. Now it's a load of bollocks and I can't believe they signed off on these scripts.

CMOTDibbler

Liam O wrote: »

You've got to stop trying to justify everything. The raven flying from eastwatch in winter? Dany on standby and just knowing where to go? The whole eastwatch journey was silly as was the north being easily navigated while in winter. Took them a long time to get there and Gendry about an hour to sprint back. A raven from Dragonstone waiting. What would the note have said? Why wouldn't the army have just attacked and not go one at a time?

I've never been the show's biggest fan but at least there was some justification for the decisions. Now it's a load of bollocks and I can't believe they signed off on these scripts.

Because I'm not such a negative nanny like yourself. :P

I enjoy a good rant. But then, mid-rant, somebody says something that's provably wrong, well that just hits a bum note with me and the rant stops being enjoyable.

And then I have to logically explain where the rant went wrong and point out how it could have been a far better rant if they'd just left that one thing out, or thought it through a bit more.

It's hard to believe that people click 'submit' on that stuff.

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

'Everyone' was saying how the trip to Eastwatch would take months. They were so far wrong it was funny. So yeah, question stuff, but do it from a position of knowledge, not bandwagon jumping.

If you're referring to me, I said the journey to Eastwatch, then the journey to the Night King's army, back to Eastwatch and then back to Dragonstone/King's Landing would take months. Which it could, and I demonstrated completely reasonably how it could. It could take shorter, it could take longer depending on maths and weather (and some north of the wall distances we're not sure on). To say that everyone was "so far wrong it was funny" is plain inaccurate.

I get that you're tired of the complaints about teleportation given how close we are to the end of the season and show, but most reasonable people would admit that some of the geographical leaps have been ... a bit of a stretch. If I can say that "You know what, it is a bit of a stretch to believe this but I'll get over it because it's good TV and I realise we're coming to the end" then you can too without having to defend the actual realism of it.