Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

martingriff

Deleted User wrote: »

The show has picked up a lot of pace this season, that cannot be denied. It has had different effects on different viewers, some like it, some don't mind, while it's ruining the show for others.

It got me thinking about the books. With reportedly only two books left in the series and so many plot threads still open by the end of the last book (ADWD), GRRM is going to have to do similar with the pace of the books if he wants to finish the story in the next two.

That's not to excuse the show, just me suggesting that this heightened pace in the show which can prove deal-breaking for some viewers, it could happen yet with the books.

I think this is it in a nutshell

The last 2 books i think will be big, Bigger then the books that were split in 2 (Book 3 and 4 I think). I don't think it will be like that in the books for 1 there is less threads and characters (In the book and you can give a better sense of time in the books. The only plot I have a hard time with and how they will end it unless they kill her as in the program is Myrcella.

Some say she is dead and its a decoy

The White Wolf

Hyzepher wrote: »

i think the episode proves that it wont be the dragons that defeat the Night King

Maybe they'll dust of Ramsay and Cersei's plot armour to put on Drogon and Rhaegal. Wouldn't feel right to me unless they survived until at least the beginning of the very last episode.

Daith

Hyzepher wrote: »

i think the episode proves that it wont be the dragons that defeat the Night King

Yes. Probably help with the wights if they're still around but that's limited. I think they'll be gone before the true end game

IR1SH RANG3R

Deleted User wrote: »

The show has picked up a lot of pace this season, that cannot be denied. It has had different effects on different viewers, some like it, some don't mind, while it's ruining the show for others.

It got me thinking about the books. With reportedly only two books left in the series and so many plot threads still open by the end of the last book (ADWD), GRRM is going to have to do similar with the pace of the books if he wants to finish the story in the next two.

That's not to excuse the show, just me suggesting that this heightened pace in the show which can prove deal-breaking for some viewers, it could happen yet with the books.

Just as an aside, this is not uncommon in fantasy and changesbeing made to split the last book(s). Thinking mainly of the excellent wheel of time series here completed after Robert Jordan's death by the brilliant Brandon Sanderson. They split the last book into three books that really worked well!

Kunkka

I presume the children of the forest will have a say in the Night King's demise.

Daith

Kunkka wrote: »

I presume the children of the forest will have a say in the Night King's demise.

Aren't they all dead?

rossie1977

A quite detailed synopsis of episode 1 from season 8 has leaked online. Interesting because I didn't think they had anything from season 8 taped?

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Daith

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I think the show suggested they were all dead? That they all lived in the cave and Bran is essentially the last person to have their knowledge.

Can anybody explain why everyone is going to Kings Landing too? Wouldn't Tyrion or Dany want it on neutral ground? Tyrion also seems to forget about Euron. If the armies and dragons are at KL, couldn't Euron take Dragonstone pretty easily?

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errlloyd

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Pretty sure that ship is how Jon got from Dragonstone to Eastwatch.

Daith

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Jaime can't marry Cersei. If anything Euron would probably play Jaime by talking about he'll raise Jaime's son.

errlloyd wrote: »

Pretty sure that ship is how Jon got from Dragonstone to Eastwatch.

Ah yes. I thought the ship Jon got from White Harbour was still around but maybe that went back to WH.

AlreadyHome

I read the meeting in Arya's room between the sisters to be a sort of act - Arya well aware that they're more than likely being spied upon and handing the knife over as a symbol of trust.

I can't think that the writers are going to have Sansa play naively into LF's hands - her character arc would dictate that she's more astute now (all the Stark kids have powers now - her's is supposedly being familiar with The Game). I think the twist in the storyline will be that she's been well aware of LF's play from the start and is waiting for the right time to be rid of him without inducing a revolt from the knights of the Vale.

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J. Marston

rossie1977 wrote: »

A quite detailed synopsis of episode 1 from season 8 has leaked online. Interesting because I didn't think they had anything from season 8 taped?

HBO need to get their shít together, if true.

pm1977x

This may have been covered but with Frey and all his men dead why hasn't Arya told Sansa to get the knights of the Vale or whoever else is just sitting around Winterfell moaning to ride down to the Twins and take it for the North - it was built up as such a vital strategic location in the past but now they just ignore the fact that they could control it with zero resistance at a time of war?

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Kunkka

Hmm maybe Cersei will marry Euron soon which will send Jaime over the edge again, as he'll have to pretend to not be a father again?

MrsFlushdraw

Just on Viserion, shame to see him go but knew it was going to happen,.

GO DROGON, least someone learned to ZIG ZAG

MrsFlushdraw

On the whole Bran is the NK etc, I don't believe that for a second. He was told he will never walk, but he will fly. Does this mean he will somehow Warg into Viserion and help bring down the NK?

Also, if the NK can now get beyond the wall due to the thing on Bran's arm, he would have done it surely? unless he was just waiting patiently for the Dragon to come along, and blast either side of the water and take army that way. Unless the breath from Vis can destroy the wall and they march on through.

We saw the NK being created years ago, it wasn't Bran, so I just don't get this chain of though tbh

TheShow

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

On the whole Bran is the NK etc, I don't believe that for a second. He was told he will never walk, but he will fly. Does this mean he will somehow Warg into Viserion and help bring down the NK?

Also, if the NK can now get beyond the wall due to the thing on Bran's arm, he would have done it surely? unless he was just waiting patiently for the Dragon to come along, and blast either side of the water and take army that way. Unless the breath from Vis can destroy the wall and they march on through.

We saw the NK being created years ago, it wasn't Bran, so I just don't get this chain of though tbh

I agree, doesn't make sense at all.

Daith

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

On the whole Bran is the NK etc, I don't believe that for a second. He was told he will never walk, but he will fly. Does this mean he will somehow Warg into Viserion and help bring down the NK?

He'll be flying on a dragon.

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

Also, if the NK can now get beyond the wall due to the thing on Bran's arm, he would have done it surely? unless he was just waiting patiently for the Dragon to come along, and blast either side of the water and take army that way. Unless the breath from Vis can destroy the wall and they march on through.

The mark was just about the cave. Was just a theory it would let him past the Wall. He was just patiently waiting for a dragon because he knew a dragon was coming cos he sees things. He herded Jon and crew to a place big enough for a dragon to fall. He had Ice Spears. He had chains.

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

We saw the NK being created years ago, it wasn't Bran, so I just don't get this chain of though tbh

Maybe Bran tried to warg the guy who became the Night King and now Bran is stuck?

Bran gets desperate because the White Walkers are winning. He tries to change the past, thinking he's better prepared now than with Hodor. He can't. Bran needs to die twice. Bran created Hodor from the future. No reason he couldn't have created the Night King too.

"We needed to defend ourselves... from you"

Savage Tyrant

AlreadyHome wrote: »

I read the meeting in Arya's room between the sisters to be a sort of act - Arya well aware that they're more than likely being spied upon and handing the knife over as a symbol of trust.

I can't think that the writers are going to have Sansa play naively into LF's hands - her character arc would dictate that she's more astute now (all the Stark kids have powers now - her's is supposedly being familiar with The Game). I think the twist in the storyline will be that she's been well aware of LF's play from the start and is waiting for the right time to be rid of him without inducing a revolt from the knights of the Vale.

I like this. Hopefully it's an accurate description of what's going on between them. Otherwise I haven't a feckin clue what they're doing.

J. Marston

Agree with that. Really hope it's some sort sisterly bluff to somehow catch Littlefinger out because if it isn't, it's just making Arya seem like a tool and stupid.

blackwhite

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

On the whole Bran is the NK etc, I don't believe that for a second. He was told he will never walk, but he will fly. Does this mean he will somehow Warg into Viserion and help bring down the NK?

Also, if the NK can now get beyond the wall due to the thing on Bran's arm, he would have done it surely? unless he was just waiting patiently for the Dragon to come along, and blast either side of the water and take army that way. Unless the breath from Vis can destroy the wall and they march on through.

We saw the NK being created years ago, it wasn't Bran, so I just don't get this chain of though tbh

I had assumed this meant the ravens?

MrsFlushdraw

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

On the whole Bran is the NK etc, I don't believe that for a second. He was told he will never walk, but he will fly. Does this mean he will somehow Warg into Viserion and help bring down the NK?

Also, if the NK can now get beyond the wall due to the thing on Bran's arm, he would have done it surely? unless he was just waiting patiently for the Dragon to come along, and blast either side of the water and take army that way. Unless the breath from Vis can destroy the wall and they march on through.

We saw the NK being created years ago, it wasn't Bran, so I just don't get this chain of though tbh

I actually forgot about that. Did that marking on Bran by the Night King mean anything in the end beyond dramatic effect in the episode?

On another subject folks - These latest dragon-centric episodes got me thinking about a vision of Bran's from an earlier season. One where he sees the shadow of a dragon on Kings Landing as it soars overhead.

I wonder will this come back into play. Could the shadow from the vision be that of Viscerion's as he escorts the Night King to the Red Keep? That leads me onto thoughts of Dany's vision of a snow-laden Throne Room.

youngblood

Can anyone explain the short scene just after the opening credits where the camera pans along the table with the map and into the fire?

That scene isnt revisited again in the episode?

GottaGetGatt

youngblood wrote: »

Can anyone explain the short scene just after the opening credits where the camera pans along the table with the map and into the fire?

That scene isnt revisited again in the episode?

Eh it just panned to where they were beyond the Wall. Nothing more. Wouldn't look into it that much.

youngblood

Have they used that device before to show us the viewer where they are in the next scene?

Hadnt we just seen the map in credits?

Just seemed a little jarring...

Savage Tyrant

It was just an artistic shot I imagine.
It scanned up the table that is carved in the map of westeros. Scanned up to the top were the wall would be and then into the fire.... a bit of foreshadowing that the dragons would be bringing fire beyond the wall?
I liked it.

ThunbergsAreGo

Logic gaps get bigger every week in this.

Starting to enjoy them now .

Teleporting ravens now

ThunbergsAreGo

pm1977x wrote: »

This may have been covered but with Frey and all his men dead why hasn't Arya told Sansa to get the knights of the Vale or whoever else is just sitting around Winterfell moaning to ride down to the Twins and take it for the North - it was built up as such a vital strategic location in the past but now they just ignore the fact that they could control it with zero resistance at a time of war?

Because that would be logical or because Arya is a spoilt brat with very little redeeming qualities

Conall Cernach

pm1977x wrote: »

This may have been covered but with Frey and all his men dead why hasn't Arya told Sansa to get the knights of the Vale or whoever else is just sitting around Winterfell moaning to ride down to the Twins and take it for the North - it was built up as such a vital strategic location in the past but now they just ignore the fact that they could control it with zero resistance at a time of war?

Maybe she didn't kill all the Freys. Old Walder had a string of young wives so maybe there are some baby Frey's running around who could claim the title and to whom bannermen would still be loyal.

Turtyturd

Just on the plan behind the trip beyond the wall, after they were attacked by the bear couldn't they have just brought the body of the guy killed back to Eastwatch and wait for it to reanimate? It's what happened at Castleblack in season 1, and why Jon wants Thoros burned.

J. Marston

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just on the plan behind the trip beyond the wall, after they were attacked by the bear couldn't they have just brought the body of the guy killed back to Eastwatch and wait for it to reanimate? It's what happened at Castleblack in season 1, and why Jon wants Thoros burned.

Might have been too fresh looking?

Gotta have the rotted-flesh-dripping-off-the-bone look to convince Cersei.

Skylinehead

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just on the plan behind the trip beyond the wall, after they were attacked by the bear couldn't they have just brought the body of the guy killed back to Eastwatch and wait for it to reanimate? It's what happened at Castleblack in season 1, and why Jon wants Thoros burned.

I don't think he would reanimate - the bear was a zombie bear, and in GoT I don't think getting killed by a wight turns you into one. You need the White Walkers around for that.

bnt

Re: the Arya / Sansa thing: this may fall under speculation, but I think they're working together at this point, putting on a show for Littlefinger to get him to reveal his schemes. This would mean that sending Brienne away isn't a problem, sinnce Arya already has plans for Littlefinger: he's on her list.

So I think we're all agreed that he's for the chop, so why not just make him disappear? Because the Knights of the Vale would leave, and the North needs them. They're essentially the only reason Sansa's tolerated him at Winterfell at all. To keep them on her side, Littlefinger can't just disappear: he has to be publicly discredited in front of his troops, and that means exposing his schemes.

The White Wolf

bnt wrote: »

Re: the Arya / Sansa thing: this may fall under speculation, but I think they're working together at this point, putting on a show for Littlefinger to get him to reveal his schemes. This would mean that sending Brienne away isn't a problem, sinnce Arya already has plans for Littlefinger: he's on her list.

So I think we're all agreed that he's for the chop, so why not just make him disappear? Because the Knights of the Vale would leave, and the North needs them. They're essentially the only reason Sansa's tolerated him at Winterfell at all. To keep them on her side, Littlefinger can't just disappear: he has to be publicly discredited in front of his troops, and that means exposing his schemes.

Publicly discrediting doesn't seem to be that easy. I mean it's not like they can wheel Bran out and list all of his crimes as there's no proof other than the word of a time travelling psychic.

Sansa could lean on Robin's temper by merely uttering that LF murdered his father and mother, but in the latter case she'd be exposing her complicity.

martingriff

The White Wolf wrote: »

Publicly discrediting doesn't seem to be that easy. I mean it's not like they can wheel Bran out and list all of his crimes as there's no proof other than the word of a time travelling psychic.

Sansa could lean on Robin's temper by merely uttering that LF murdered his father and mother, but in the latter case she'd be exposing her complicity.

I think that's the point. They either need LF to show his hand so they can show it to everyone or Brianna is gone looking for proof

RobbingBandit

Littlefinger is Robins father.

Savage Tyrant

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Littlefinger is Robins father.

Hmmmm... I never even thought of that before. Interesting.

RobbingBandit

I thought Lysa revealed this before she dies

DeadHand

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Littlefinger is Robins father.

It's possible that LF impregnated Lyssa at Riverrun and she carried him to the Eerie.

But is Robin not too young for that and more likely he was conceived while LF was making his name in Kingslanding?

It's a good theory, I'm just not sure of the timeline and if it allows.

RobbingBandit

Lysa was the wife of the hand of King Robert while Lord Baelish was master of coin, both were at Kingslanding in the court at the same time this is going way off topic here but I think he got her pregnant during that time, Robin is lord only by way of his mother's marriage to Jon Arryn. Makes sense to me, Littlefinger mistreat him as a misdirection but all in he fully supported the boy.

RobbingBandit

Might be a Bran reveal somewhere down the line.

Savage Tyrant

We've discussed this episode to death and it's only supposed to air in 6 hours time..... We need the final episode to leak... Now.

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Turtyturd

Skylinehead wrote: »

I don't think he would reanimate - the bear was a zombie bear, and in GoT I don't think getting killed by a wight turns you into one. You need the White Walkers around for that.

But the two in Castleblack in season 1 weren't reanimated by anyone, and I'm fairly certain they have burned other bodies in Castle Black to prevent them from coming back.

Todd Toddington III

John "how many days has it been?"

The hound "10, I think. And that spikey haired cnut up there has been watching us the whole time."

And just like that, plot hole filled.