ISIS Terrorist Attack in Barcelona

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So what if he is a Spanish citizen.

Are you seriously suggesting it would have been deemed irrelevant if this ISIS nutjob marauded into Spain on Mrs Merkel's initiative?

If course it's bloody relevant. It would have been relevant if he had recently immigrated, but the fact is that he (like many, or most of his kin) are Europeans.

That is relevant. It forces us to ask serious questions about European countries' domestic (non immigration) policies.

SafeSurfer

end of the road wrote: »

not in my opinion, but in fact. he was spanish

You obviously are not aware of the definition of nationality.

Are all people born in Northern Ireland British?

Answer me that please.

SafeSurfer

Nettle Soup wrote: »

So I call ye ostriches and you reply with the utter nonsense above? What age are you?
At least I can acknowledge facts and consider the difficultly in fighting this terrorism. Some of you clowns can only deal in black + white causes and solutions.

Ageist as well as deluded. You are the one who sees things in black and white terms. Are people born in Northern Ireland British?

Nettle Soup

end of the road wrote: »

not in my opinion, but in fact. he was spanish

it doesn't matter. what he identifies himself as is irrelevant, he was spanish.

Someone sees sense...and we both know that identifying home grown minors (u18) as terrorist risks is a lot harder than imported unknown risks.

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting it would have been deemed irrelevant if this ISIS nutjob marauded into Spain on Mrs Merkel's initiative?

If course it's bloody relevant. It would have been relevant if he had recently immigrated, but the fact is that he (like many, or most of his kin) are Europeans.

That is relevant. It forces us to ask serious questions about European countries' domestic (non immigration) policies.

You consider him European. He would not consider himself European but I guess you believe you are right.

end of the road

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You obviously are not aware of the definition of nationality.

wrong. i'm very aware of the definition, and the terrorist was spanish.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are all people born in Northern Ireland British?

none of those born in northern ireland are british, they are irish.

Snake Plisken

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Stupid post. Are you saying he was not Spanish?

It's best to accept the facts and assess them rather than act the ostrich. We are dealing with a 17 year old Spaniard who was somehow radicalised enough to murder 14 innocent people by driving at speed through a crowd. This is the kind if lunacy we are dealing with. It's a difficult enemy to engage or defeat.

You do realise that these scum consider themselves Muslim first and probably Moroccan before Spanish!

gw80

Nettle Soup wrote: »

So I call ye ostriches and you reply with the utter nonsense above? What age are you?
At least I can acknowledge facts and consider the difficultly in fighting this terrorism. Some of you clowns can only deal in black + white causes and solutions.

Hmm, ostriches, clowns, what is it they say about resorting to name calling when losing an argument?

SafeSurfer

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Someone sees sense...and we both know that identifying home grown minors (u18) as terrorist risks is a lot harder than imported unknown risks.

What a nonsense statement. You are saying that European citizens who we can track their internet search history, associations, organisations memberships etc are more difficult to identify as potential threats than unknown individuals running from a boat up s beach in Spain. This is clearly nonsense.

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You consider him European. He would not consider himself European but I guess you believe you are right.

It's not a question of opinion, but one of fact.

You don't choose to be Senegalese or American or Japanese by dint of will. You either are, you are not.

end of the road

Snake Plisken wrote: »

You do realise that these scum consider themselves Muslim first and probably Moroccan before Spanish!

irrelevant. they are still spanish. from spain if born in spain

Snake Plisken

end of the road wrote: »

wrong. i'm very aware of the definition, and the terrorist was spanish.



none of those born in northern ireland are british, they are irish.

Yeah and your Halawa buddy considers himself Egyptian! Or that's what he said when he was up on the stage! It's only when he was thrown in jail that he decided he was Irish

Yamanoto

Nettle Soup wrote: »

China??? Are you sure?
The Chinese economy has been roaring for decades. Why would they be working in service stations in grotty Dublin??

Best pop in & ask them.

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's not a question of opinion, but one of fact.

You don't choose to be Senegalese or American or Japanese by dint of will. You either are, you are not.

This is also nonsense. One of the individuals caught up in this incident was an Irish citizen. A man born in the Philippines who chose to become an Irish citizen.
Do you feel the same about gender? You are either one or the other? Your arguments are nonsense.

mezzz

AT FIRST YOUR IN DENIAL,

THEN RAGE,

THEN ACCEPTANCE

SafeSurfer

end of the road wrote: »

wrong. i'm very aware of the definition, and the terrorist was spanish.



none of those born in northern ireland are british, they are irish.

Such hypocrisy. So nationality is fluid when it suits your arguments but rigid when it suits your narrative.
So no one born in Northern Ireland is British?

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

This is also nonsense. One of the individuals caught up in this incident was an Irish citizen. A man born in the Philippines who chose to become an Irish citizen.

so then he was Irish. What's your point caller?

Do you feel the same about gender? You are either one or the other? Your arguments are nonsense.

Of course not.

I guess I'm a bit of a language pedant, but one can identify as either (or neither) woman or man, but you can't just identify as being a citizen of a desired State.

If he were Syrian or Afghani, and chose to identify as Spanish, you'd probably (quite rightfully) ridicule that.

Similarly, I don't believe you'd find his nationality quite so irrelevant if he were a Syrian or Afghani.

You lot must be very disappointed tonight.

end of the road

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So no one born in Northern Ireland is British?

correct. the same as anyone born in other british ruled overseas territories that they stole from other countries aren't british. only those born in england scotland and wales are british.

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Such hypocrisy. So nationality is fluid when it suits your arguments but rigid when it suits your narrative.
So no one born in Northern Ireland is British?

Gender is variable in the same way as religious and political affiliations are.

But citizenship is not variable by any legal or logical means.

Are you saying citizenship is fluid?

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

so then he was Irish. What's your point caller?

Of course not.

I guess I'm a bit of a language pedant, but one can identify as either (or neither) woman or man, but you can't just identify as being a citizen of a desired State.

If he were Syrian or Afghani, and chose to identify as Spanish, you'd probably (quite rightfully) ridicule that.

Similarly, I don't believe you'd find his nationality quite so irrelevant if he were a Syrian or Afghani.

You lot must be very disappointed tonight.

I don't see any evidence that you are a pedant as you seem very confused.
You are aware that people with an Irish granny can play for the Irish soccer team. Dual citizenship exists. People born in one country can become citizens of others. You rejoice that's 17 year old murderer was Spanish not Moroccan or Syrian. If this delights you then you have a very happy future.
Do you really believe that he identified as Spanish?

SafeSurfer

end of the road wrote: »

correct. the same as anyone born in other british ruled overseas territories that they stole from other countries aren't british. only those born in england scotland and wales are british.

Are children born of Irish parents in England British? I suppose you would refer to them as plastic Paddy's?

Richard Hillman

Are people really nitpicking over madey-up U.N "laws"?

The guy was a Muslim first, with probably more of an allegiance to a tribe of people in North Africa.

This U.N nonsense of "citizenship" needs to be told to jog-on. It was the U.N that has gotten us into this mess of not being able to mass-deport people we don't like.

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Gender is variable in the same way as religious and political affiliations are.

But citizenship is not variable by any legal or logical means.

Are you saying citizenship is fluid?

Do you deny that people can renounce and obtain citizenship. Of course citizenship is fluid. Do you not know that?

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are aware that people with an Irish granny can play for the Irish soccer team.

Dual citizenship exists

As a dual Irish-UK citizen, I assure you I am more than aware that dual citizenship exists.

You seem to be ignoring the point that one cannot merely self-identify as Spanish, or Syrian, or Saudi, by dint of choice, i.e. waking up in the morning and unilaterally choosing to be Spanish.

Citizenship is granted, not merely identified.

It isn't like identifying as a Fine Gaeler, or a Catholic, or even a woman. It has a very strict literal and legal meaning.

Now, let me ask again. Would you have been so dismissive of his nationality were he Saudi or Syrian?

Hmmmm?

Grab All Association

1. Where's Nodin?
2. Syrian refugee in Thurles last night hitting on a teenage girl and verbally abusing her when she rejected him. He said his people would stone her to death Christian devil's. The man was a ******* lunatic. It's not going to be long before an attack happens in this country.
3. Let's blame her skimpy tracksuit and say she was asking for it.
4. He's Muslim it's not harassment.

Grab All Association

The incident happened near Stradavoher just up near the Revenue offices.

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

As a dual Irish-UK citizen, I assure you I am more than aware that dual citizenship exists.

You seem to be ignoring the point that one cannot merely self-identify as Spanish, or Syrian, or Saudi, by dint of choice, i.e. waking up in the morning and unilaterally choosing to be Spanish.

Citizenship is granted, not merely identified.

It isn't like identifying as a Fine Gaeler, or a Catholic, or even a woman. It has a very strict literal and legal meaning.

Now, let me ask again. Would you have been so dismissive of his nationality were he Saudi or Syrian?

Hmmmm?

I think his citizenship is a complete irrelevance. Citizenship you say is granted not identified. Yet citizenship is granted automatically on application once the criteria is met.
Maybe you could familiarise yourself with article 13(2) and 15(2) of the Univrrsal Declaration of Human Rights.

Ulysses Gaze

mezzz wrote: »

AT FIRST YOUR IN DENIAL,

THEN RAGE,

THEN ACCEPTANCE

end of the road

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Are people really nitpicking over madey-up U.N "laws"?

The guy was a Muslim first, with probably more of an allegiance to a tribe of people in North Africa.

This U.N nonsense of "citizenship" needs to be told to jog-on. It was the U.N that has gotten us into this mess of not being able to mass-deport people we don't like.

if UN laws are laws then they aren't made up. the guy was spanish, doesn't matter whether he identified as muslim first or not. if This "U.N nonsense" of "citizenship" needs to be told to jog-on, then that means we are all no longer citizens of a country but citizens of the world. indeed rightly so the UN has insured we can't mass-deport or individually deport people because "jay browny" or "mudlimz init"

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yet citizenship is granted automatically on application once the criteria is met.

No it isn't.

From what I recall, that's a pretty significant ongoing debate in European legal discourse: citizenship is the gift of the Government of the host country, there's nothing automatic about it.

Ireland, for example, the Minister for Justice is free to refuse an application for citizenship even if all of the residential requirements are met, as well as employment history and criminal record.

Maybe you could familiarise yourself with article 13(2) and 15(2) of the Univrrsal Declaration of Human Rights.

...which is not justiciable...

You may as well quote from the bible.

Anyway, you've tried to avoid this point, but I dont think anybody here (honest people on either side, of which both exist) seriously believes you'd be dismissing this man's nationality, were he Syrian or Afghani.

Bad end to your fun, I guess.

end of the road

Grab All Association wrote: »

1. Where's Nodin?

what does it matter where he is? if he wants to post he will.

Grab All Association wrote: »

2. Syrian refugee in Thurles last night hitting on a teenage girl and verbally abusing her when she rejected him. He said his people would stone her to death Christian devil's. The man was a ******* lunatic.

i hope you gave the gards any information you have. this individual needs to be behind bars.

Grab All Association wrote: »

3. Let's blame her skimpy tracksuit and say she was asking for it.

no, lets not. sickening you would even suggest that people should do such a thing.

Grab All Association wrote: »

4. He's Muslim it's not harassment.

wrong.

Snake Plisken

Grab All Association wrote: »

1. Where's Nodin?
2. Syrian refugee in Thurles last night hitting on a teenage girl and verbally abusing her when she rejected him. He said his people would stone her to death Christian devil's. The man was a ******* lunatic. It's not going to be long before an attack happens in this country.
3. Let's blame her skimpy tracksuit and say she was asking for it.
4. He's Muslim it's not harassment.

Nodin closed his account but he is still here under a new name.
Surprised some of the lads in Thurles didn't batter the little scrote! Put some manners on him and explain to him that he is only a guest in this country and he needs to respect the law of the land and abusing girls won't be accepted here!

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No it isn't.

From what I recall, that's a pretty significant ongoing debate in European legal discourse: citizenship is the gift of the Government of the host country, there's nothing automatic about it.

Ireland, for example, the Minister for Justice is free to refuse an application for citizenship even if all of the residential requirements are met, as well as employment history and criminal record.

...which is not justiciable...

You may as well quote from the bible.

Anyway, you've tried to avoid this point, but I dont think anybody here (honest people on either side, of which both exist) seriously believes you'd be dismissing this man's nationality, were he Syrian or Afghani.

Bad end to your fun, I guess.

Maybe you didn't read or simply chose to ignore the multiple times I said I believe his citizenship is irrelevant. Whether it is Spanish, Syrian or Moroccan.
Do say bad end to my fun is just disgusting. We are debating an attack on innocent people in which children were murdered. This may be a fun debate to you but not to me.

What I said re citizenship is accurate.

Anyway, debating citizenship when non citizens can simply enter a territory with impunity is in itself an irrelevance.

Irish Praetorian

Grab All Association wrote: »

1. Where's Nodin?
2. Syrian refugee in Thurles last night hitting on a teenage girl and verbally abusing her when she rejected him. He said his people would stone her to death Christian devil's. The man was a ******* lunatic. It's not going to be long before an attack happens in this country.
3. Let's blame her skimpy tracksuit and say she was asking for it.
4. He's Muslim it's not harassment.

I'm perfectly willing to believe it happened but do you have a source for that because I can find nothing in the news.

Spider Web

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

No they don't deserve to be attacked by scumbags who follow a cruel version of their religion, but lets be real here. There was no Isis, in Saddam time. We played a big part in this and allowing groups like this to grow and spread.

Misuse of "we". It's like saying all Muslims have a role to play in the terrorist attacks because of being Muslim.

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't like the populist, "arrest all muslims", "stop all immigration", "string em up" mob mentality that is promoted by many posters on this thread and I have argued against it.

Somebody earlier wanted all 1st and 2nd generation muslim immigrants interned earlier. Just think how ridiculous and impractical that is.

I agree but why do you have to be so aggressive with people who express completely valid concerns? I agree with them too. It's not essential to be just one or the other.

And aren't the terrorist attacks more deserving of concern than what someone posts on an Internet forum?

sink wrote: »

I have a beard, look at the photo of the guy they're currently hunting, no beard. It's stupid stereotype generalizations like that, which make racial profiling dragnet style police operations completely useless. It just ties up police resources chasing down the wrong people when the actual perpetrators can sidestep them easily by shaving or some other simple misdirection.

In the USA, that type of dragnet police action against gangs led to a lot of arrests for pretty crimes like holding a weapon or small quantities of drugs. Meanwhile the gang problem kept getting worse and worse. A lot of non violent normal people got caught up in it and sent to prison for lengthy sentences. When they got out they could no longer get a job because of their criminal records and so crime was the only avenue left open to them. The dragnet police operations actually worsened the situation.

If it actually worked I would be for it, but it doesn't and so i'm not. I'm not some bleeding heart, I have no qualms about cracking a few heads if it works, but you need to crack the right heads and not some innocuous bystanders.

I would be for more targeted action, that targets specific traits of radical Islamism as opposed to Islam itself or brown people in general. For instance, foreign governments and people should be banned from funding Mosques and all religion in general (I would include Christians in this too), it's basically allowing foreign propaganda. If Muslims in Europe want to practice their faith they can fund it themselves. Severing European Islam from despotic Islamic regimes would go along way to encouraging a more moderate westernized Islam to prevail.

I would be for banning advocating sharia law, the subjugation of women and the persecution of gays and other such oppressive beliefs. People who direct espouse and promote those beliefs should be imprisoned and deported were possible. At the moment they're protected under the guise of freedom of speech, but that is a con, it is not necessary to protect a persons right to promote direct oppression based on race, religion, gender and sexuality, in order to allow freedom of political and religious thought in all other areas. We can and should separate out promoting persecution (based on race, religion, gender and sexuality) from lawful speech just as we have separated out promoting violence.

With those laws in place it would make it a lot easier to lock up and deport dangerous individuals in a targeted manner without innocuous/innocent bystanders being caught in the net and making matters worse.

Great post.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You have a far better chance of winning the Irish lottery than of getting killed by ISIS.

"Far better"? Maybe 50/50? Or maybe you've a slightly better chance of being killed by isis? We just don't know really. I don't see why an attack could not occur in Ireland.

Spider Web

Spider Web wrote: »

"Far better"? Maybe 50/50? Or maybe you've a slightly better chance of being killed by isis? We just don't know really. I don't see why an attack could not occur in Ireland.

Oh no.

Not 50/50

There is a far better chance of winning the Irish lottery than being killed in an ISIS terrorist attack

Ted Plain

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But La Falange is a fascist movement.

The protesters you were feeling sorry for... are Fascists. Do you get that at all?

LOL

La Falange?

I immediately thought you were using a pisstake name for a knobjockey politician. like Ruairi Quinn being Ho Chi Quin or Eamon Gilmore being Eamon Gimmemore.

I thought you were on about the bauld Nige. Nigel, garage, garrajsch, Farridge. Farrajsch.

Nigel la Flange.

SafeSurfer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Oh no.

Not 50/50

There is a far better chance of winning the Irish lottery than being killed in an ISIS terrorist attack

Yet again you are wrong.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/25/world/map-isis-attacks-around-the-world.html





Here's how many times each county has won the lottery jackpot
http://jrnl.ie/2584594

Ted Plain

Ted Plain wrote: »

LOL

La Falange?

I immediately thought you were using a pisstake name for a knobjockey politician. like Ruairi Quinn being Ho Chi Quin or Eamon Gilmore being Eamon Gimmemore.

I thought you were on about the bauld Nige. Nigel, garage, garrajsch, Farridge. Farrajsch.

Nigel la Flange.

No

I am not taking the piss.

The 'protesters' were La Falange. They pursue an ultranationalist fascist ideology called Falangism.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Here's how many times each county has won the lottery jackpot
http://jrnl.ie/2584594

This is almost tiresome now.

How many times have any of the above counties been victims of ISIS terrorism?

Again I say, you are far more likely to win the national lottery than to be a victim of ISIS.

Grab All Association

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm perfectly willing to believe it happened but do you have a source for that because I can find nothing in the news.

I didn't witness it but I live in the housing estate around the corner and have heard what happened. It was a traveller girl apparently coming back with shopping heading to Cabra/Oakfield estates I assume.

Last year a girl was pushed on the crossing on Parnell street by a woman in a burka and a Syrian teenager had to be escorted off the grounds of one of the local girls schools. Harassment on Parnell street aimed at Irish girls drinking in pubs is also common ask anyone who goes to the club's on that street. Thurles is becoming the new Rochdale. There was also trouble reported at a barbecue in the town held last year to integrate the refugees. There was insults fired at people from the town who showed up.

This last year when these issues were raised around the town http://tippfm.com/news/news_detail/garda_plea_made_to_report_thurles_crimes

kraitor

the word on the grapevine re the refugee attack on the girl in thurles,

word is she is a niece of one of the most, if not the most feared traveler gangs from the donegal border

, refugee attackers of peace need 24 hour protection, not naming names

FraR

Lucy8080 wrote: »

6 posts..are you English,trying to stir the pot ? Let us decide our relationship to our new Irish. Not many problems so far, we may be doing some things right.

New Oirish??? What does that make the natives? Old Irish? Preposterous term.

ChikiChiki

Have concrete bollards been introduced to Grafton Street, Henry Street and other parts of the CC? If not, then why not? Both areas have a huge number of people per sq m at any given time. There shouldn't be a seconds thought given to it. In Ireland we tend to be reactive instead of proaxtive and I would hope our security services are on the ball here.

Here in Oz they have introduced them to pedestrianized areas of Melbourne and Sydney.

Lucy8080

FraR wrote: »

New Oirish??? What does that make the natives? Old Irish? Preposterous term.

Interesting use of the word "oirish". Definite stirring of the pot here.

kraitor

Maggie Carty wrote: »

Well if that's true the muslim fairly ****ed up cos the travelers will murder the kunt. They don't care about being pc.

you said it in one,

there are are 100,000 children in this country they coould have attacked, with relative impunity, thanks to zappone, especially thanks to coveney and their cronies,

however this is not berlin, this is neither paris nor barcelona,

they have hit a strong family and they will be struck down with great anger and furious vengance

Lucy8080

kraitor wrote: »

you said it in one,

"...and they will be struck down with great anger and furious vengance"

Welcome to Hollywood.

FraR

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting it would have been deemed irrelevant if this ISIS nutjob marauded into Spain on Mrs Merkel's initiative?

If course it's bloody relevant. It would have been relevant if he had recently immigrated, but the fact is that he (like many, or most of his kin) are Europeans.

That is relevant. It forces us to ask serious questions about European countries' domestic (non immigration) policies.

A Moroccan born and raised in Morocco to Moroccan parents isn't European. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Europe's migration madness didn't start in 2015. It's being going on for decades and the chickens are coming home to roost.

The borders should have been shut long ago but it's better late than never.

FraR

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Interesting use of the word "oirish". Definite stirring of the pot here.

Immigrants aren't new Irish, Oirish or whatever newspeak you want to call them.

If I move to China do I become new Chinese?

Lucy8080

FraR wrote: »

Immigrants aren't new Irish, Oirish or whatever newspeak you want to call them.2""2

If I move to China do I become new Chinese?

It's up to yourself if you want to embrace the culture or not...if they are willing to acknowledge your embrace ..best of luck to both of you. Irish/American...Irish/Chinese..what harm?

btw...it was yourself that used the word "Oirish"...not me.

FraR

Lucy8080 wrote: »

It's up to yourself if you want to embrace the culture or not...if they are willing to acknowledge your embrace ..best of luck to both of you. Irish/American...Irish/Chinese..what harm?

btw...it was yourself that used the word "Oirish"...not me.

Nobody with a brain would view an Irish immigrant to China as Chinese. And rightfully so. New Irish is a preposterous term regurgutated by simpletons and cowards.

Call them what they are. Immigrants in Ireland. Just like id be an immigrant in China and not new Chinese.