Zander in Lough Mask and concerted effort against pike.

Bikerguy

Mr Coolwings i could not better say that myself... kudos to you..

twin_beacon

Coolwings, great few posts.

Just back to the Zander on Mask, one of the fake facebook profiles "Shane Crossan" that I believe was one of the original people that was spreading this news, has since deleted the facebook account. This guy was an online troll to both Pike angling clubs, and also some Trout angling clubs that shared the online magazine "Off The Scale", as the magazine has posted articles against the pike culls. The guy was just a menace trying to cause a divide between pike and trout anglers.

kildare lad

I think he had one or two different aliases before he called himself shane Crossan, i think corrib dribbler or something like that was another,I just had a look on oughterards FB page, you'd swear trout were goin extinct cause of pike, theyre currently sharing all the scare stories of pike eating everything in America.

While i do believe if pike are introduced to small lakes or rivers that never had them before,yes they will cause a lot of damage to the natural fish stocks that are there. And they should be removed accordingly. But they're in the corrib hundreds of years at least and its a massive expanse of water, so im sure pike will some eat trout, just the same as trout will eat trout, cormorants will eat trout, and the trout anglers who'd definitely eat trout . Thats nature.

TBH ive talked to a few anglers about this on the bank, and most of them like myself wouldnt mind if the fish were removed and put somewhere else, its the fact that theyre killed and dumped or excinerated or sold for dog food is the problem.

thefisherbuy

Shane crossan what a pr#ck.. Just seen the topic and would have posted earlier. He's such a coward he used a fake profile and commented under everyone's scientific comments about the removal of pike in the corrib.. He then tried to put a border between coarse fisherman/Game fishermen with the supposed release of "zander" in the mask to protect the corrib.

twin_beacon

Another escalation. They have also contacted local radio stations, and news papers. Even The Irish Sun as written an article on this issue. Of course, its a one sided debate by people that want pike exterminated from the country. Its a poor reflection on Galway Bay FM, and Shannonside FM that they did not ask anybody from the other side of the argument to balance it.

OwlEye

http://fishinginireland.info/news/uncategorized/statement-from-inland-fisheries-ireland-on-the-issue-of-pike-and-trout-management/

pheasant tail

Just seen this on the rte news there too, their down in oughterard. Lots of noise been made about it again

spaceHopper

Heard a guy on one of the national radio stations talking about the harm pike are doing and how they are not native they where introduced in Norman times. So let's look at this another way pike may have been here for give or take 1000 years and they never managed to eat all the trout in Lough Corrib so evidently they aren't the problem and the engineer in me knows you can only solve a problem once you know the root cause which ain't the pike

Caribs

@spacehopper I don't think it is quite as simple as that. The Pike in Corrib appear to have been introduced much more recently than that, possibly around the 1600's but there are a number of differing opinions on that. In terms of their impact, records show albeit anecdotally in terms of their being reference books written in the early to mid 1800's that Corrib contained relatively few larger trout at that time and lots of Pike. In the late 1800's local people started managing the pike and this has continued to a greater or lesser extent to this day. The great western lakes are some of the last few remaining wild salmonoid fisheries in Western Europe and potentially the world. The people who have lived here for generations have a deep emotional association with the lake and it's trout. That association may not be perfect but from what I have seen this IFI review of Pike Management in Brown Trout Fisheries is causing a very emotional response. The experience from the 1800's would appear to resonate with more recent studies in Sweden whereby larger lakes with deeper colder water could potentially sustain an ecosystem where Pike and Trout can co-exist as this would provide significant areas of water where Pike wouldn't go, Trout with the ability to adapt to cooler water conditions therefore have room to escape and grow to a size to avoid predation. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Corrib but while there are areas of deeper water where larger Trout can go, there are a multitude of shallows and bays which provide the perfect environment for Pike to thrive. The studies from Sweden suggest that in these types of waters Pike will extirpate ( I had to look it up, effectively means destroy or erradicate) Trout stocks. There are loads of other issues too which to an extent are being tackled in terms of stream enhancement, water quality, pollution from farming, forestry, sewage and then the zebra mussel and lagorsiphon to name a few but inextricably linked to this are Pike.

spaceHopper

Caribs wrote: »

@spacehopper. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Corrib but while there are areas of deeper water where larger Trout can go, there are a multitude of shallows and bays which provide the perfect environment for Pike to thrive. The studies from Sweden suggest that in these types of waters Pike will extirpate ( I had to look it up, effectively means destroy or erradicate) Trout stocks. There are loads of other issues too which to an extent are being tackled in terms of stream enhancement, water quality, pollution from farming, forestry, sewage and then the zebra mussel and lagorsiphon to name a few but inextricably linked to this are Pike.

To be honest I don't know it well at all, did some reading, mostly on facebook so you have to take it with a big pinch of salt but, I seems that some of the anti-pike people are taking it too far, hanging half gutted pike around slips ways to intimidate pike angles. And that a much bigger part of the problems is agricultural pollution, which nobody is willing to face up to. They can blame pike all they want but unless they tackle the root cause trout in Corrob could well die out, char have after all. Maybe they need to look at where their efforts are better spent.

Caribs

Agriculture and Forestry run off have as you say had a impact on water quality and is something that is being tackled on an on-going basis. There is a water protection group and the Lough Corrib angling federation who regularly look to tackle these issues. A lot of the time you are banging your head against a very powerful brick wall though.

Separately there's a foundation run through the Federation that is purely focussed on stream enhancement which is looking at fixing and improving the nursery streams, redds etc. IFI have been dealing with the Lagorsiphon issue and unfortunately the zebra mussel are well and truly established.

Part of the problem is that there isn't just one root cause but lots of root causes each of which need to be tackled. I personally agree that hanging gutted pike around isn't on, I think it distracts from the main thrust of the arguments.

Autochange

I have started a campaign where i will kill every size trout i catch. It does not matter how big or small they are, if i catch them they are dead. Any pike I catch are safetly returned to the water.

kildare lad

Caribs wrote: »

Agriculture and Forestry run off have as you say had a impact on water quality and is something that is being tackled on an on-going basis. There is a water protection group and the Lough Corrib angling federation who regularly look to tackle these issues. A lot of the time you are banging your head against a very powerful brick wall though.

Separately there's a foundation run through the Federation that is purely focussed on stream enhancement which is looking at fixing and improving the nursery streams, redds etc. IFI have been dealing with the Lagorsiphon issue and unfortunately the zebra mussel are well and truly established.

Part of the problem is that there isn't just one root cause but lots of root causes each of which need to be tackled. I personally agree that hanging gutted pike around isn't on, I think it distracts from the main thrust of the arguments.

Thats good that they're trying to sort out the other problems aswell, but why are pike being solely blamed on RTE news,their radio show and in the newspapers too. Theres been no mention of water quality or pollution in the media regarding falling trout stocks, its all the pikes fault. Pike are an easy target, the big bad pike eating all our poor trout. Trout will be extinct if predator control is stopped.Bla Bla Bla,Such sensationalist crap coming from them.

Rows Grower

Autochange wrote: »

I have started a campaign where i will kill every size trout i catch. It does not matter how big or small they are, if i catch them they are dead. Any pike I catch are safetly returned to the water.

Do you require any funding?

Just let me know via pm, you are not alone.

You are an inspiration, I hate brown trout too.

Kill um all.

Send me your bank details.

Autochange

Rows Grower wrote: »

Do you require any funding?

Just let me know via pm, you are not alone.

You are an inspiration, I hate brown trout too.

Kill um all.

Send me your bank details.

I am assembling a specialist raiding team. We have some plans in place. Fishing fly only swims with worms, using big hooks so the fish swallow all meaning their innards come out on retrieval of said hook.
We have a plan.
Dont contact me directly, I will be in touch.

Pike rule, Trout drool

thefisherbuy

To be fair I'm totally against all this and love me pike fishing (did more pike fishing than trout this year) but I don't think this is the best idea.. shouting and cursing is only fueling their cause. We're not going to get anywhere by saying sh#te online we have to do something.. what can we do not much I've "herd" of protests but likely will not get many attending.

Caribs

kildare lad wrote: »

Thats good that they're trying to sort out the other problems aswell, but why are pike being solely blamed on RTE news,their radio show and in the newspapers too. Theres been no mention of water quality or pollution in the media regarding falling trout stocks, its all the pikes fault. Pike are an easy target, the big bad pike eating all our poor trout. Trout will be extinct if predator control is stopped.Bla Bla Bla,Such sensationalist crap coming from them.

Because the big issue at the moment is the review of the Pike management policy by IFI and the potential for this to be stopped. While it is a multi-faceted issue the threat of one of the key pillars being removed is very serious hence the focus.

twin_beacon

kildare lad wrote: »

but why are pike being solely blamed on RTE news,their radio show and in the newspapers too. Theres been no mention of water quality or pollution in the media regarding falling trout stocks, its all the pikes fault. Pike are an easy target, the big bad pike eating all our poor trout.

This is the biggest thing I have an issue with. People think Pike are vermin and don't have any problem killing them, throughout the country. A bit like the shark hysteria after Jaws was in the cinemas.

hurler014

A lot of the available literature back in the 1800's appears to be anecdotal alright, I don't know how difficult it would be to ascertain validity.
On the reasons for the foundation of the first salmon hatchery on the Corrib, it's interesting to note that poaching was recorded as a means for catching salmon. Also factor in the idea that people were netting trout around the Corrib to sustain their families. I remember reading something about this on the Oughterard angling page.
I have no idea how many trout or salmon were being removed but I wonder if there's a potential for conflict if people favour catching and eating salmonoids over pike. They were different times alright. I couldn't find any record of when the netting stopped.
I suppose pike being opportunistic feeders on other fish and seasonal variations of fish movement around bigger lakes and the availability of fodder fish such as roach and perch would help to alleviate any predation on salmonoids.
Another piece of literature from the 1800's and I'm paraphrasing refers to an infestation of pike that were difficult to catch.

kildare lad

Caribs wrote: »

Because the big issue at the moment is the review of the Pike management policy by IFI and the potential for this to be stopped. While it is a multi-faceted issue the threat of one of the key pillars being removed is very serious hence the focus.

yes well its about time the IFI got a bit of backbone and got it stopped. Its an absolute disgrace, the treatment of pike have received in this country. Trout stocks havent improved with all the culling that their doing. if u read the Irish Pike societies report they done using IFI's data it'll show you that. If the trout anglers are so passionate about their trout, they should ban catch and kill competitions and heaviest fish comps.

There seems to be plenty of trout for these comps. But when it comes to pike culling being stopped, trout are on there way to extinction they claim. They should look a bit closer to home before they start blaming pike on falling trout stocks.

kildare lad

Another piece of literature from the 1800's and I'm paraphrasing refers to an infestation of pike that were difficult to catch.

The place was infested with pike that were difficult to catch. Ive heard it all now. haha

kildare lad

hurler014 wrote: »

On the reasons for the foundation of the first salmon hatchery on the
Another piece of literature from the 1800's and I'm paraphrasing refers to an infestation of pike that were difficult to catch.

It was that infested with pike but they were difficut to catch!!
Ive heard it all now. hahaha

kildare lad

Caribs, this a IPS document they delivered to the IFI regarding pike managment. This was obtained using data collected from the IFI, who are no lover of pike by the way.

http://www.irishpikesociety.org/pike-policy-submission-document.html

Caribs

I think I've read parts of the document already and to be honest I'm not sufficiently qualified or knowledgeable to be in a position to debate the merits/shortcomings of it. Some trout anglers with more of a scientific background than I criticise elements of the findings and conclusions which contradict other data submitted on behalf of the trout submissions. I know IFI said that they would base their decision on scientific data so hopefully they are sufficiently qualified to make such a decision.

What is interesting is that many of the trout angling groups have an opposing opinion of corporate IFI relative to yours! By that I mean there seems to be a pro-pike bias there :-)

kildare lad

A pro pike bias in the IFI ??? Are you on drugs??What planet are you. Is this the same IFI that kills thousands of pike every year because they love them so much. The IFI are a mainly game orientated organisation, Theres no coarse/pike people on the IFI board. Never has been. They dont give a crap about about any fish unless it has spots.

Ultimate Seduction

What is the obsession with game fish in this country, besides frying them? I mean you can use the same method to catch pike, they're usually bigger, and give a great fight. I probably fish both as much as each other over the year, and get as much enjoyment out of pike as I do trout.

kildare lad

Good point ultimate seduction. Some people still think all coarse fish are vermin, but have no bother going stocky rainbow bashing when the season ends. Ive been meaning to start fly fishing myself but i cant seem to get away from tench during the summer, spent 200 euro on a set up but as the canals are starting to get a bit better coarse fishing wise i cant seem to make the jump yet.

BTW not all trout lads are backwards i know quiet a few that are equally appalled by the gillnetting on the loughs. I think its just ingrained in the boys from the west that pike are dirt, Their fathers and grandfathers brought them up teaching them that the only good pike is a dead one. Thankfully that mindset seems to be dying off with the younger lads as ive seen a picture of a meeting held by Connacht Angling Council on predator control and everyone in the room seemed to be over 50.

twin_beacon

Now they are having a dig at Nathan Edgell, for wearing this t shirt.
They are claiming that he made this t-shirt in response to whats going on in the west at the moment. When in reality, thats an old picture, just made for a bit of banter. But the propaganda machine is working very well, and people are believing it.

blackpearl

twin_beacon wrote: »

Now they are having a dig at Nathan Edgell, for wearing this t shirt.
They are claiming that he made this t-shirt in response to whats going on in the west at the moment. When in reality, thats an old picture, just made for a bit of banter. But the propaganda machine is working very well, and people are believing it.

If it was a trout on the t shirt and the writing was the other way yous pike men would be losing the plot go away and get a life,what a bunch of cryers you are.

twin_beacon

blackpearl wrote: »

If it was a trout on the t shirt and the writing was the other way yous pike men would be losing the plot

Not at all, I'd have no issues using a small dead jack as Ferox bait. Its just easier to get my hands on roach

blackpearl wrote: »

go away and get a life,what a bunch of cryers you are.