Zander in Lough Mask and concerted effort against pike.

gumbo1

blackpearl wrote: »

If it was a trout on the t shirt and the writing was the other way yous pike men would be losing the plot go away and get a life,what a bunch of cryers you are.

It's not the pike men that are crying over this tshirt now is it? It was used for a joke in England several years ago and now you trout men are all up in arms over it thinking that it's directed at ye and all that's happening here now! That'd be the guilt. It's actually quite sad to see that you belive all the sh¡te the trout federations are spewing. An ecosystem is a finely balanced thing, if you go messing with it then the whole thing will collapse and then where will you be and who will be to blame when all the pike are gone from your precious lakes? There'll be plenty of roach and perch to eat the trout food but no one to keep their numbers under control.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

If it was a trout on the t shirt and the writing was the other way yous pike men would be losing the plot go away and get a life,what a bunch of cryers you are.

It's so nice in your trout "lakes" there under threat from s*x mad pike can't wait till sheelin is full of perch and roach in a few years!! :rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

As someone who has fished all methods and species for over 60 years I have never come across the vitriol that seems to be present in all this. All anglers I know respect all other anglers and their chosen or favoured type of fishing. To be honest I find the bickering and venom that seems to be present in Mask, and on here, quite disgusting and demeaning of our sport.

kildare lad

Everett Scruffy Physician wrote: »

As someone who has fished all methods and species for over 60 years I have never come across the vitriol that seems to be present in all this. All anglers I know respect all other anglers and their chosen or favoured type of fishing. To be honest I find the bickering and venom that seems to be present in Mask, and on here, quite disgusting and demeaning of our sport.

Well its a very emotive topic to be honest. How would you feel if the quarry you fished for, was netted out lakes and thrown in bins to die or incinerated.There are game anglers out there who have no respect for pike. Clubs on the corrib and loughrea and other places im sure,hold catch and kill competitions for pike. So they can feel good about themselves, That they're doing there part to protect trout stocks. They get special permission from the IFI for this. Watch this videos of the IFI in action, and tell me its doesn't boil your blood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-kWh39okXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEzcIXuUnAM

demanufactured

blackpearl wrote: »

If it was a trout on the t shirt and the writing was the other way yous pike men would be losing the plot go away and get a life,what a bunch of cryers you are.

?

blackpearl

thefisherbuy wrote: »

It's so nice in your trout "lakes" there under threat from s*x mad pike can't wait till sheelin is full of perch and roach in a few years!! :rolleyes:

They are taking the pike out of sheelin this years and their is no big numbers of perch and roach, in fact their numbers are way down this few years pity because perch are my no 1 eating fish it must be all the trout that are around now bashing the fry that is the cause of the small numbers of perch and roach,the trout numbers have exploded with pike numbers way down.

pheasant tail

blackpearl wrote: »

They are taking the pike out of sheelin this years and their is no big numbers of perch and roach, in fact their numbers are way down this few years pity because perch are my no 1 eating fish it must be all the trout that are around now bashing the fry that is the cause of the small numbers of perch and roach,the trout numbers have exploded with pike numbers way down.

I've bit my lip and said nothing lately on about any of this anymore but I just have to call you out on that Blackpearl, that and everything else you've contributed to this thread is uttter nonsense. Your saying trout numbers are exploding and the numbers of roach and perch are dropping on Sheelin because the extra trout due to pike culling is eating them. Do ya hear yourself, convenient wee turn of events ain't it..!! For any of yas who don't know Sheelin, I can tell yas that this is not the case at all and don't listen to the nonsense

coolwings

The pike of Sheelin will grow back, as they always do. The ones that are not caught by nets will grow faster due to the dearth of pike following culling, and those very few very large pike will continue to attract pikers who want the chance to catch a huge fish, even if they have to wait for a catch that is not a blank or jack pike.

At the same time the populations of perch will continue to rise and fall in a multi year cycle, as they have done for decades.

I find it interesting that pike anglers have never admitted that the really big pike have historically come from waters where killing pike is as old as the hills.

These loughs all had big roach while roach were a new introduced species. Then they multiplied to fill their niche and the size of roach went down. If there was a roach removal programme in place on a few loughs, those loughs would have the biggest roach, just fewer of them.

But as I have said before culling the little ones and leaving the big ones is better in my opinion, (than killing the big ones and leaving the small/weak to breed) since superior genetics are the result.

There are people who say let a natural balance emerge and leave the loughs alone. It makes no sense to do that after the roach spread from "coarse" waters into "all" waters. Now if pike predated preferentially on roach it would be a wonderful world. Unfortunately they don't.

It is what it is. Complaining that pike were being taken from a managed trout water is as idiotic as complaining that trout were taken from a carp water, or carp from a pike water. Where a water is open fishing and mixed like eg Lough Ree there's no reason for a cull, but where it is a declared trout water, like eg Sheelin so what if some pike, perch or roach are removed? Get in the car and drive from Sheelin to Derravaragh where the pike are happy and not culled!

And if you Do want to fish all year for the chance of a 40-50 pounder, deliberately set up on Sheelin, Corrib or Mask and hope they culled the pike like bejazus from 5 to 10 years ago, so pike numbers are low, food numbers high, and the big cohort of pike in the final years of life won't be ordinary 30 pounders but will have had the chance to grow beyond that size limitation.

By the way, Neville Fickling is on the record as agreeing with the idea that culled pike waters with high stock levels of food species represent the best locations for a 50 pound pike. Though I admit it's not a conversation I hear the ordinary pike anglers enter into. He should know. His 38 1/2 from Mask was during a pause or cessation of gill netting following years of gill netting.

Is that an argument for a clever on-off policy of pike culling with gill nets? Maybe gill net for 5 years (in trout waters!), then switch to reduction of smaller pike and let the smaller number of fast growers streak to huge weights? Then repeat? It possibly is. But I don't see the wisdom anywhere, in Ireland, or in this thread, to even consider such a radical action.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

They are taking the pike out of sheelin this years and their is no big numbers of perch and roach, in fact their numbers are way down this few years pity because perch are my no 1 eating fish it must be all the trout that are around now bashing the fry that is the cause of the small numbers of perch and roach,the trout numbers have exploded with pike numbers way down.

Love your views nearly every trout angler right their (not all) hit everything in the head and run catch and kill competitions, what they should do for a is have a 1 fish per day size limit 13 inches and no catch and kill Competitions! I fish for trout and release them haven't killed one in a few years and I fish for other fish... I know a lot of lads that are multi species and release 90% of the trout they catch but then you get die hard trout anglers and kill fish like mad and they say "what's wrong with eating fish"
It's a wonder trout isn't on your "number 1" list probably got used to eating it all the time.

blackpearl

I am a catch and eat man and proud of it that goes for what i catch in freshwater and the sea and hunting is the same every thing shot is for the table same goes for every thing from fungi to fruit you can get pick in the wild so to the catch and release crowd i give the fingers, and i agree their is a element on sheelin that ram catch and release down every ones throat but are the ones standing at the table in their mony making comp at the end of the season where lines of big hen fish are hanging and theirs not a word.

blackpearl

pheasant tail wrote: »

I've bit my lip and said nothing lately on about any of this anymore but I just have to call you out on that Blackpearl, that and everything else you've contributed to this thread is uttter nonsense. Your saying trout numbers are exploding and the numbers of roach and perch are dropping on Sheelin because the extra trout due to pike culling is eating them. Do ya hear yourself, convenient wee turn of events ain't it..!! For any of yas who don't know Sheelin, I can tell yas that this is not the case at all and don't listen to the nonsense

Dont listen to the nonsense ,the only nonsense is been spouted by you ,their has never been as many trout in the lake as now by what i can see you have not got a clue about sheelin i would say what you know about it you found in a report ,i am fishing the lake 45 years and i mean by fishing around 120 days a year so i know the lake like the back of my hand and your full of it.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

Dont listen to the nonsense ,the only nonsense is been spouted by you ,their has never been as many trout in the lake as now by what i can see you have not got a clue about sheelin i would say what you know about it you found in a report ,i am fishing the lake 45 years and i mean by fishing around 120 days a year so i know the lake like the back of my hand and your full of it.

Would love to know how much you've killed in "45 years" lol the day is turning and alot of these old mindset type of killing everything is going. Which it should be.. I don't mind taking one for the pot(every now and then) but killing everything ye get over the limit ? You'd be as bad as them "people" slaughtering pike and other fish.

The stocks aren't what they used to be a lot of people are turning to c&r.. and you say "I give the fingers" you are a th#ck git, atleast their releasing some of the fish they get.

blackpearl

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Would love to know how much you've killed in "45 years" lol the day is turning and alot of these old mindset type of killing everything is going. Which it should be.. I don't mind taking one for the pot(every now and then) but killing everything ye get over the limit ? You'd be as bad as them "people" slaughtering pike and other fish.

The stocks aren't what they used to be a lot of people are turning to c&r.. and you say "I give the fingers" you are a th#ck git, atleast their releasing some of the fish they get.

You stick to your frozen supermarket chicken you clown.

gumbo1

blackpearl wrote: »

You stick to your frozen supermarket chicken you clown.

That's a really well constructed and delivered reply Shane.

pheasant tail

Blackpearl, you said in some posts back somewhere that Sheelin is a wild trout lake and must be protected, can you explain that please, the part that Sheelin is a wild trout lake... honest question

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

You stick to your frozen supermarket chicken you clown.

Didn't answer my question though? Ha.. I'd rather eat chicken any day than killing a lovely trout just my opinion

blackpearl

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Didn't answer my question though? Ha.. I'd rather eat chicken any day than killing a lovely trout just my opinion

Do you want the numbers of trout i have killed in 45 years i have it somerwhere in a book do you want me to tell you ?

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

Do you want the numbers of trout i have killed in 45 years i have it somerwhere in a book do you want me to tell you ?

I said "I wondered" if you know what that means.. maybe this year have any rough guess keep it to the 100 😂

Still avoiding other people's questions???

SeaFields

MOD Lads, I know this is a topic close to a lot of fellas hearts but there is a lot of sniping and tempers are rising here. Remember, attack the post, not the poster and generally be civil. The thread will be monitored and closed if warranted.

coolwings

A lough is a natural area. It has certain things in common with eg a field of dry land.

if that field were planted in potatoes, at harvest about 9/10ths of the spuds could be taken out, and the remainder would seed for the following year and no reduction in the "potato population".
Same goes for if it were planted in trees. Every year thinnings could be cut and removed, and if seedlings wer not taken then at maturity the old trees could be taken, and there would still be a self sustaining populations of trees.

The lough has some similarities. But let me point out one more similarity which matters a lot to catch and release, slot limits, bag limits etc. Using the field of spuds analogy once more; If there are thousands of weeds like dandelions growing among the potato plants, the potato harvest - the surplus - will be reduced greatly. And next year the weeds will have increased, and the spuds will fall more. This is because weeds are more vigorous than eg potatoes, and over time they will replace them. So the farmer steps in and kills or uproots the weeds every year. Not to eliminate them as that would be impossible. He does it to ensure that his preferred species, the potato plant, remains the dominant one in this field.

So the lough is perfectly capable of creating a surplus of fish than can be safely removed without causing damage to the future years harvest. And if one species is to be consistently removed, like eg trout, then the other competitors should be managed (removed, killed!) as this creates a bigger trout harvest without destruction of the lough. So if it's a trout lough and not a pike lough, why not manage it for the best result. The IFI know all this perfectly well, and they get on with it.
I don't see them working on pike loughs to make those places better. I expect that is because the pike tend (not always) get returned in a pike lough, and the management system is allowed to be more natural. But if the pike loughs were run the way the trout loughs are run, there would be amazing pike fishing in those places.

But this is all imagination of a future nobody would agree to. Because everybody wants everybody else's lough converted to their own use it seems. Fishing for pike on a trout lake on the trout lake manager's terms seems to be unacceptable to Irish pike anglers. However I would point out what has happened in the UK where large trout waters have pike fishing allowed under certain special rules. That's where all the big pike are caught!

Just to make an obvious point before somebody takes me up wrong. I'm not in favour of indiscriminate killing of fish. But I'm also not of the religious mindset that they are to be treated like people and never ever killed either. It's a question of unused capacity: if the place is operating at it's limits, any removal can cause a fishy population crash. But if it happens to be a fertile water with plenty of spawning resources, more can be taken and no harm will come of it.

The best way to manage each water is specific to each water.

Suggesting we should release them all (from fertile waters) makes no sense to me. To me it's similar, but opposite, and just as silly as suggesting we should kill them all! Now in a hard fished river, near a city, which is heavily fished, it makes sense to return the fish, and that applies no matter if they be trout, pike, rudd, perch or tench. It's clear if everybody took a couple, and there are great numbers of anglers the water would be emptied. And we have all seen that happen so it's not a debatable thing. In general the people who want more catch and release tend to come from a background of fishing hard fished waters. So their views are understandable. But if you go from the Dodder to Sheelin the reasons to not take a fish at the end of the day are weaker while on the big lough. The crunch comes when we learn a local takes 6 home every day and regards that as his right. To my mind it depends on whether damage is being caused diminishing the fishery for the future.

Caribs

At its most simple, there are only 7 designated wild brown trout lakes left in Ireland and the game angling groups are looking for this to be maintained. Even with pike culling there is still excellent pike fishing to be found on Corrib.

I think it is too easy just to wheel out the statement that trout anglers kill everything they catch and that this poses the greatest threat to trout stocks. Yes there are still some catch and kill competitions run by individual clubs, equally there are many catch and release competitions run but the catch and kill are still limited to the overall 4 trout limit and in my experience it is very rare for anglers to hit this limit. Notwithstanding this, IFI's research stated that the pressure on trout stocks by rod and line is minimal so C&R is not the panacea by any means.

Maintaining and improving trout stocks requires a multi-faceted approach, which for the 7 remaining lakes includes pike management. Taking a step back from the Irish experience, take a look what is happening in the US where pike being introduced into fisheries is having a devastating effect on native trout stocks. This is happening currently so is a live example of why we think pike management has to continue.

thefisherbuy

Caribs wrote: »

At its most simple, there are only 7 designated wild brown trout lakes left in Ireland and the game angling groups are looking for this to be maintained. Even with pike culling there is still excellent pike fishing to be found on Corrib.

I think it is too easy just to wheel out the statement that trout anglers kill everything they catch and that this poses the greatest threat to trout stocks. Yes there are still some catch and kill competitions run by individual clubs, equally there are many catch and release competitions run but the catch and kill are still limited to the overall 4 trout limit and in my experience it is very rare for anglers to hit this limit. Notwithstanding this, IFI's research stated that the pressure on trout stocks by rod and line is minimal so C&R is not the panacea by any means.

Maintaining and improving trout stocks requires a multi-faceted approach, which for the 7 remaining lakes includes pike management. Taking a step back from the Irish experience, take a look what is happening in the US where pike being introduced into fisheries is having a devastating effect on native trout stocks. This is happening currently so is a live example of why we think pike management has to continue.

I will admit that I came from "hard fished waters" but weren't fished by many but the trout their were big and few.. so when I did eventually get them I would release them.. big fish (biggest was 6lb) so I always think releasing is the best i know compared to sheelin that "one angler" taking home fish is acceptable for the lake as said has a healthy population.

But I don't why it's all blamed on the pike.. culling is totally useless all the lakes around me are all gone to sh&t with "people" killing everything and the trout anglers say there's "hundreds of pike lakes around" when that's the opposite I even seen one fella saying how easy it was to get a 20lber pike and saying he could get more then trout on a day.. I've been fishing for a fish that big for yonks. What's your opinion then when (let's say) the pike population is low what about the perch, roach and other coarse fish? The potential for pike angling in Ireland is massive but they let it to throw it all away.

blackpearl

Then look after all the pike lakes you have and leave the handfull of trout lakes alone .The culling of pike on sheelin has made a big difference to trout stocks ,it is rare too catch a trout on sheelin with marks where it was attacked by pike ,20 years ago it was the norm the place was alive with pike you would lose casts of wet flys to pike, trout numbers were small now it is top class and few pike.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

Then look after all the pike lakes you have and leave the handfull of trout lakes alone .The culling of pike on sheelin has made a big difference to trout stocks ,it is rare too catch a trout on sheelin with marks where it was attacked by pike ,20 years ago it was the norm the place was alive with pike you would lose casts of wet flys to pike, trout numbers were small now it is top class and few pike.

"Then look after all the pike lakes you have left" are you serious?the ifi should have their limited staff to deal with not only GAME fish.. Ye have ifi under your wing and their high staff is one way road like allot of them "die hard trout anglers" as soon as you see mark you blame it on the pike? The hate for these fish is unbelievable... ifi are all about game fish simple they put most of their time into it.. no point ringing them if you see "people" with coarse fish over the limit.. nothing on the ground fellas as I know their following orders.

blackpearl

thefisherbuy wrote: »

I said "I wondered" if you know what that means.. maybe this year have any rough guess keep it to the 100 😂

Still avoiding other people's questions???

Say around 68 for the table for the year, about 30 returned in and around 3 to 4lb with some in the 6 to 7lb bracket, we eat trout once a week in the house and some for close freinds if you have trouble with this well that is sad.

thefisherbuy

blackpearl wrote: »

Say around 68 for the table for the year, about 30 returned in and around 3 to 4lb with some in the 6 to 7lb bracket, we eat trout once a week in the house and some for close freinds if you have trouble with this well that is sad.

Don't have any trouble.. what about pheasant tails question ??

blackpearl

pheasant tail wrote: »

Blackpearl, you said in some posts back somewhere that Sheelin is a wild trout lake and must be protected, can you explain that please, the part that Sheelin is a wild trout lake... honest question

A managed wild trout lake honest answer.

rpmcmurphy

thefisherbuy wrote: »

" ifi are all about game fish simple they put most of their time into it.. no point ringing them if you see "people" with coarse fish over the limit.. nothing on the ground fellas as I know their following orders.

I disagree strongly on the above. I live in an area where coarse fish are the primary species and the waters containing them are well policed by ifi. In fact I would imagine that on a national basis the majority of fixed charge penalty notices issued nationally are for non salmonid type offences. To suggest ifi management are ordering staff to ignore coarse species is absurd and unfounded.

Caribs

thefisherbuy wrote: »

I will admit that I came from "hard fished waters" but weren't fished by many but the trout their were big and few.. so when I did eventually get them I would release them.. big fish (biggest was 6lb) so I always think releasing is the best i know compared to sheelin that "one angler" taking home fish is acceptable for the lake as said has a healthy population.

But I don't why it's all blamed on the pike.. culling is totally useless all the lakes around me are all gone to sh&t with "people" killing everything and the trout anglers say there's "hundreds of pike lakes around" when that's the opposite I even seen one fella saying how easy it was to get a 20lber pike and saying he could get more then trout on a day.. I've been fishing for a fish that big for yonks. What's your opinion then when (let's say) the pike population is low what about the perch, roach and other coarse fish? The potential for pike angling in Ireland is massive but they let it to throw it all away.

I never said this is all being blamed on the pike and again don't think it's helpful to either side of the debate to blame one element such as pike and/or trout anglers killing everything they catch. I think coolwings analogy is very good and goes to the substance of the argument and essentially repeats my point. There are only 7 of these designated lakes left in Ireland where the lake is managed to the benefit of trout over other species.

Yes this requires IFI to work on keeping this but don't also forget that locals have also actively been involved in work including stream enhancement, water protection etc. Our clubs membership includes a contribution to the federation which is solely used for this type of work and I believe most if not all other Corrib clubs do the same.

pheasant tail

blackpearl wrote: »

A managed wild trout lake honest answer.

There were 3000 trout stocked into Sheelin a few years back for the internationals. There are thousands of fish released into Sheelin by the LSTPA annually from stripping fish that aren't even off Sheelin origin. It's getting harder to tell what's wild up there anymore and an argument can be made that we are essentially loosing the native Sheelin trout. Wild trout lake, not in my eyes but of course that's forbidden and not to be spoke off on the shores of Sheelin when our visitors arrive in May