Zander in Lough Mask and concerted effort against pike.

Ultimate Seduction

Where would ye put Lough derg in all this. Is there much culling going on there. Is there much trout and pike in it

blackpearl

pheasant tail wrote: »

There were 3000 trout stocked into Sheelin a few years back for the internationals. There are thousands of fish released into Sheelin by the LSTPA annually from stripping fish that aren't even off Sheelin origin. It's getting harder to tell what's wild up there anymore and an argument can be made that we are essentially loosing the native Sheelin trout. Wild trout lake, not in my eyes but of course that's forbidden and not to be spoke off on the shores of Sheelin when our visitors arrive in May

The 3000 trout were put in and plenty of other stocking took place mostly when the lake was on its knees ,so people would keep fishing it their were very few wild trout about and the lake was over run with pike and roach the lake was green, for some reason a heaven for roach thank god for the zerba mussel it is fairly clean now their is no unfed fry been put in the lake or feeder streams this few years or stockiES.The most recent international that was fished i think 10 anglers got their personal best wild trout and not a stockie in sight.The corrib was stocked with un fedfry a number of years back to help stocks recover you are nit picking at what is a wild trout and what is not their is no such thing as a native sheelin trout they came from lock leven in scotland,what about new zeland are they stockies as well they came from scotland .

kildare lad

Is there any particular reason why the fish cant be relocated?? Lough sheelin is close enough to many lakes in cavan, would it not make more sense to transfer the fish to some of them that have been poached to bits. Theres plenty of lakes in cavan that could do with restocking.

coolwings

In the past Sheelin very big pike were relocated into Kinale, Mask pike to the Castlebar lakes. I can't talk about the present situation for that practice.

Caribs

I don't know if there are any other issues from an ecological reason that would need to be considered but I suspect it is primarily down to cost.

blackpearl

Caribs wrote: »

I don't know if there are any other issues from an ecological reason that would need to be considered but I suspect it is primarily down to cost.

Cost, lough kinale is five minutes drive from sheelin and they could not move them this year instead they were dumped as much as i am a trout man this was a disaster of the worst kind.

blackpearl

coolwings wrote: »

In the past Sheelin very big pike were relocated into Kinale, Mask pike to the Castlebar lakes. I can't talk about the present situation for that practice.

A few years back their was a pike of 26 lb taken out of sheelin and tagged and put into kinale the pike was caught the following year weighted and released it was 18lb .

kildare lad

blackpearl wrote: »

A few years back their was a pike of 26 lb taken out of sheelin and tagged and put into kinale the pike was caught the following year weighted and released it was 18lb .

from what ive heard kinale has been poached to bits so i cant see why there not put in there. Ive fished a few lakes for pike around bailibourogh and lets just say i wont be going back either. Most serious pikers dont go to cavan anymore except for a few lakes there.

Also if pike are netted out at spawning time, they will be a good bit heavier than they are post spawn. granted 8lb is a lot, but a 10lb pike in july can be 13lb pike in feburary. Ive seen a picture of a pike that put on 10lb in one year from a river in england. Out of all the fish i think pike fluctuate the most in weight.

I think the solution myself is to relocate the fish. How expensive is it to put pike in an airated container?? If the IFI can spend 120,000 euro gillnetting every year can they not spend an extra few grand on transporting the fish.

It just kills me as pike angler to see pike slaughtered. The grand canal is 5 mins from house and i live 5 mins from leixlip reservoir , high doubles and twenties were regularly caught there when i was younger. Now all they're is jacks if ur lucky. Pike are still being killed illegally every week for the table. they are under severe pressure from poaching in a lot of places in this country, And yet the IFI think its ok gill net and incinerate pike instead of restocking damaged waters. Its a joke.Check out this page on facebook to see the type of "anglers" we have on are waters

https://www.facebook.com/Fishing-Ireland-CatchandRelease-1513399458947647/?fref=ts

kildare lad

Caribs wrote: »

I don't know if there are any other issues from an ecological reason that would need to be considered but I suspect it is primarily down to cost.

https://www.fisheriesireland.ie/extranet/fisheries-management-1/1247-proposed-wrbd-stock-management-plan-2017/file.html

they spent roughly 75 grand on gillnetting and 38 grand on electrofishing in 2017. You think they could put aside 10 or 20 grand for transporting the pike. BTW the IFI have earmarked 2 million for angling development. Maybe they could use a bit out of that.

Caribs

kildare lad wrote: »

https://www.fisheriesireland.ie/extranet/fisheries-management-1/1247-proposed-wrbd-stock-management-plan-2017/file.html

they spent roughly 75 grand on gillnetting and 38 grand on electrofishing in 2017. You think they could put aside 10 or 20 grand for transporting the pike. BTW the IFI have earmarked 2 million for angling development. Maybe they could use a bit out of that.

Doesn't seem like a lot in the greater scheme of things and could well be a workable solution and should also help to bring anglers together

twin_beacon

blackpearl wrote: »

A few years back their was a pike of 26 lb taken out of sheelin and tagged and put into kinale the pike was caught the following year weighted and released it was 18lb .

Actually, that wouldn't surprise me at all. All pike are netted at spawning time, which is when they are at their heaviest. A pike full of spawn in February, and with a full stomach can weigh a lot more than in late summer.
I've had pike a little over a meter going 25lb in early march, and one 114cm going just under 27lb in early November. The same 114cm fish would probably be over 30lb at spawning time.

blackpearl

kildare lad wrote: »

from what ive heard kinale has been poached to bits so i cant see why there not put in there. Ive fished a few lakes for pike around bailibourogh and lets just say i wont be going back either. Most serious pikers dont go to cavan anymore except for a few lakes there.

Also if pike are netted out at spawning time, they will be a good bit heavier than they are post spawn. granted 8lb is a lot, but a 10lb pike in july can be 13lb pike in feburary. Ive seen a picture of a pike that put on 10lb in one year from a river in england. Out of all the fish i think pike fluctuate the most in weight.

I think the solution myself is to relocate the fish. How expensive is it to put pike in an airated container?? If the IFI can spend 120,000 euro gillnetting every year can they not spend an extra few grand on transporting the fish.

It just kills me as pike angler to see pike slaughtered. The grand canal is 5 mins from house and i live 5 mins from leixlip reservoir , high doubles and twenties were regularly caught there when i was younger. Now all they're is jacks if ur lucky. Pike are still being killed illegally every week for the table. they are under severe pressure from poaching in a lot of places in this country, And yet the IFI think its ok gill net and incinerate pike instead of restocking damaged waters. Its a joke.Check out this page on facebook to see the type of "anglers" we have on are waters

https://www.facebook.com/Fishing-Ireland-CatchandRelease-1513399458947647/?fref=ts

They have a airrated container in the fisheries on sheelin and yes the poaching on kinale is still going on they are even netting the river in finae the shoals of big perch are gone wiped out by nets .

kildare lad

I know lads that used to fish kinale, they said it was a great water. fisheries board dont have a clue over here. They just keep sweeping it under the carpet and hoping itll go away. the only thing thats gone away is the fish and a lot of visiting anglers

thefisherbuy

kildare lad wrote: »

I know lads that used to fish kinale, they said it was a great water. fisheries board dont have a clue over here. They just keep sweeping it under the carpet and hoping itll go away. the only thing thats gone away is the fish and a lot of visiting anglers

Only way to get anything decent is in the middle of nowhere. That's the truth all waters be a road side have gotten exposed by them "people" not many options it's only going to get worse.

kildare lad

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Only way to get anything decent is in the middle of nowhere. That's the truth all waters be a road side have gotten exposed by them "people" not many options it's only going to get worse.

Its never ending until the IFI start coming down and heavily fining them, cars and everything should be taking. But thats unlikely.

Zzippy

Can't move the fish anymore due to new EU fish health regulations AFAIK. All fish movements need to be approved in advance by the Marine Institute. The fish being moved have to be tested free of disease, which means holding them for a number of weeks while samples are tested in the lab. Only then would the MI grant a movement order. Not feasible without large scale fish holding facilities.

pheasant tail

Lads I'm going to go against the grain here and honestly say that they might as well be killed rather than relocated, if there is going to be removal that is. Like we have said here about how removing the apex predator leaves a hole and upsets nature and the whole chain of events is set off. Adding more pike into other lakes is going to cause the same issue, although a different side off it. Essentially then we are affecting more than just the 7 named lakes. Adding pike, especially with spawn from these rich trout lakes into these other lakes and different environments just doesn't work in my opinion. Anyone here who regularly fishes for pike will know how sensitive and fragile they can actually be I hadn't heard of that pike from Kinale, it may not mean much anyway depending on time of year or age if fish but I'd love to see more of the transferred fish tagged because I reckon the survival rate is extremely low. Plus you have the chance of introducing disease but more worryingly invasive species which is something that could totally devastate our fisheries going forward

Mr Bumble

Is this issue now much more sensitive because of the reduction in pike stocks caused by people taking them to eat?
Question: Is there any restriction on killing pike for the table?

rpmcmurphy

The conservation of pike bye law 809 of 2006 prohibits taking and killing more than one pike per angler in a day,!
It is also an offence to take and kill a pike over 50cm in length.
This same bye law prohibits the possession of more than 0.75kg of pike flesh.

It is also an offence to fish for pike using live bait under the prohibition of the use live bait bye law 592 1977

pheasant tail

And 85cm I think from the managed lakes. In general do people think pike numbers are much lower than what they where in years gone by? As a whole like I dont know. There was of course a large influx of undesirables in recent years but before that we had European anglers in particular the Germans and they use take pike on a very large scale before there where ever any course fish legislation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

pheasant tail wrote: »

And 85cm I think from the managed lakes. In general do people think pike numbers are much lower than what they where in years gone by? As a whole like I dont know. There was of course a large influx of undesirables in recent years but before that we had European anglers in particular the Germans and they use take pike on a very large scale before there where ever any course fish legislation.

I find we have as many, and as big, pike now as we had 50 years ago. Back then tourists from Germany in particular used to be frequent anglers around here and took jack pike for eating - an abhorrent thought to we Irish anglers at the time.

pheasant tail

Everett Scruffy Physician wrote: »

I find we have as many, and as big, pike now as we had 50 years ago. Back then tourists from Germany in particular used to be frequent anglers around here and took jack pike for eating - an abhorrent thought to we Irish anglers at the time.

I'd agree, i remember years back meeting Germans on many occasions and they'd all have freezers full of pike. They'd tell me that their holiday could be payed for in a day or twos fishing. And I'm sure back in the day too, a lot of pike caught even by locals where taken for the table

Zzippy

pheasant tail wrote: »

And 85cm I think from the managed lakes.

Not so. 85cm was recommended in national policy but never introduced in legislation. 50cm limit applies in all waters.

demanufactured

Probably the most sense ever spoken about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK71xApcJ6E

twin_beacon

I seen the video last night, very well put together, and it had lots of things that is rare in this argument, statements backed up by peer reviewed (by people qualified in this field, i.e. not dentists) and published scientific documents.

kildare lad

ye seen it myself, good video. Will it change any in the wests opinion on pike...unlikely. That lot couldnt be any more backwards if they tried. Anyway they dont seem to happy with the IFI at the moment anway

Considering the news that has broken in the last 24 hours with respect to the Salmon Weir in Galway and the 'scorched earth' policy being pursued by Dr Ciarán Byrne (IFI CEO) against game angling in the Corrib catchment, the committee of the Oughterard Anglers & Boatmen Association are advising all our members to boycott the purchasing of IFI salmon licences for 2018.
We are taking this unilateral action for the following reasons.
(1) Since 2009 when invasive pike were discovered in the Owenriff system, IFI have failed to ring-fence any money raised through the salmon conservation fund (salmon licence sales) to finance the eradication of this invasive species from a major salmon nursery.
(2) Since 2009, IFI have failed to produce any management plan or written strategy on how to deal with invasive pike in the Owenriff system.
(3) The current review of 'pike management in designated brown trout fisheries' has become farcical with no draft policy due until early 2018. This review will now span three calendar years (2016-2018), when the last indicative timetable produced by IFI stated that the review would be fully completed by September 2017. If the IFI Executive push through their latent plans to cease invasive pike control on Lough Corrib, the recruitment of salmon parr and salmon smolts will be severely impacted.
(4) With the impending sale of IFI's Lough Corrib bases in Moycullen and Greenfields, Dr Ciarán Byrne is sending a clear signal that he longer sees Lough Corrib as a salmonid/game fishery worth preserving.
(5) With the potential privatisation of the Salmon Weir fishery and sale to UK buyers, what other parts of our angling heritage will sold off to foreign interests to make a quick buck?
(6) Will the Cong salmon hatchery be next in line for Dr Ciarán Byrne's demonic asset stripping crusade?
(7) Why invest your hard earned money in an IFI salmon licence, when the Corrib catchment is being systematically dismantled as a state managed salmonid fishery?
Oughterard Anglers & Boatmen Association Committee 2017

RockyRory

I was just sent some photos from a piker friend in muncher country that shows new Irish fisheries signs all around L Corrib for 2018 saying that pike are invasive.

whats up with these numbskulls. dont they know that pike are native to Ireland and have been in Corrib for at least 2 million years. you need pike in a lake like Corrib to clean up all the sick and diseased fish. pike bring a balance to a fishery and only eat skimmers and roach. without pike the trout numbers will crash. why do they hate pike so much???? if they released all there trout there would be no problem as they just kill millions of trout on Corrib every year. i heard they even love killing undersize fish as they fit in a frying pan easier.

twin_beacon

RockyRory wrote: »

I was just sent some photos from a piker friend in muncher country that shows new Irish fisheries signs all around L Corrib for 2018 saying that pike are invasive.

whats up with these numbskulls. dont they know that pike are native to Ireland and have been in Corrib for at least 2 million years. you need pike in a lake like Corrib to clean up all the sick and diseased fish. pike bring a balance to a fishery and only eat skimmers and roach. without pike the trout numbers will crash. why do they hate pike so much???? if they released all there trout there would be no problem as they just kill millions of trout on Corrib every year. i heard they even love killing undersize fish as they fit in a frying pan easier.

Indeed, but the people of Oughterard would rather keep their head buried in the sand. Comparing IFI's stock survey in 2012, compared to the same survey in 1996:

Pike numbers down roughly 20%
Trout numbers down roughly 45%
Roach numbers up roughly 15%
Roach/Bream numbers up roughly 900% (not a typo)
Perch numbers up roughly 3100% (not a typo)

This is what you would expect when you remove the apex predator from an eco system, the prey have reduced predation, so their numbers increase. Coarse fish reproduce in greater numbers than trout, while competing for similar food sources.

https://www.fisheriesireland.ie/documents/233-preliminary-observations-in-relation-to-an-adult-fish-stock-survey-of-l-corrib-completed-in-februar-1/file.html

Ultimate Seduction

I hope some vigilantes pull every sign down

RockyRory

are they that bad in oughtarard? I even heard that they want to kill all the ferox trout in the lake too since they eat the smaller trout and they have some big trolling comp every year with a big cash prize for the heaviest bag of ferox trout with fish over 20 pounds slaughtered annually.