Zander in Lough Mask and concerted effort against pike.

twin_beacon

How dare they come over to Ireland and spend money in their local economy!

demanufactured

Zzippy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that was directed at GB pike anglers, telling them to get their "hands off our waters". Why would British pikers be telling Irish anglers that Corrib was theirs? Fairly ambiguous though, I can see how either side would consider it provocation. And ridiculous too.

It's not the local anglers water to tell anyone not to fish there... It belongs to us all.

Zzippy

demanufactured wrote: »

It's not the local anglers water to tell anyone not to fish there... It belongs to us all.

I never said it was. I fully agree with you

twin_beacon

This is an issue that I don't think is fully understood in the West, the money to fund the gill netting comes from general taxation. I have no problem with money being spent on something that has been proven to increase trout stocks, bit gill netting does the opposite.

demanufactured

Zzippy wrote: »

I never said it was. I fully agree with you

Yep I know... We're all singing fromm the same sheet.

spaceHopper

Zzippy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that was directed at GB pike anglers, telling them to get their "hands off our waters". Why would British pikers be telling Irish anglers that Corrib was theirs? Fairly ambiguous though, I can see how either side would consider it provocation. And ridiculous too.

They were representing it as signs put up on lough corrib, photos sent in by a man out shooting. Thing is they are a very poor photo shop job.:eek:

Zzippy

spaceHopper wrote: »

They were representing it as signs put up on lough corrib, photos sent in by a man out shooting. Thing is they are a very poor photo shop job.:eek:

Yes, but to most people that would read like local anglers telling the GB Pike Club "Hands off our waters". Whoever photoshopped it didn't really think it through... then again, I've observed a distinct lack of intelligent thinking on all sides in this debate.

twin_beacon

https://www.facebook.com/OughterardAnglersAssociation/videos/744732368956129/?comment_id=744780555617977&comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22}

posted almost 3 years ago, their comment on the video is interesting:

Oughterard Anglers Association Thanks for the comments lads and agree that the word infestation might be a bit strong but to clarify the point, there is no argument that Pike have been native to many of our lakes and rivers for 100's and 1000's of years. However, the Owenriff system (above the falls) has traditionally been a trout and salmon nursery system and some years ago it is believed the Pike were deliberately introduced as they had not been found in the system up to that point. This has had a very negative impact on both the juvenile trout and salmon as well as the spawning adults. While our club is primarily a Trout angling club, many of our members enjoy the fantastic sport Pike angling gives.

Now they have totally back tracked on that statement, from their latest rant on facebook:
"Will Inland Fisheries Ireland keep propagating the myth that Esox lucius is wholly native to Ireland?"

Bogwoppit

But everyone agrees that they're not wholly native, there are parts of the country where there is no dispute about pike not being native.

Caribs

Bogwoppit wrote: »

But everyone agrees that they're not wholly native, there are parts of the country where there is no dispute about pike not being native.

Totally agree with you, there is a blinkered view that if pike are found to be native to Ireland and some of the recent commentary calls this into question in terms of if/when they were introduced versus native, it automatically follows that they must be native to all waters when this is patently not the case.

kildare lad

twin_beacon wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/OughterardAnglersAssociation/videos/744732368956129/?comment_id=744780555617977&comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22}

posted almost 3 years ago, their comment on the video is interesting:

Oughterard Anglers Association Thanks for the comments lads and agree that the word infestation might be a bit strong but to clarify the point, there is no argument that Pike have been native to many of our lakes and rivers for 100's and 1000's of years. However, the Owenriff system (above the falls) has traditionally been a trout and salmon nursery system and some years ago it is believed the Pike were deliberately introduced as they had not been found in the system up to that point. This has had a very negative impact on both the juvenile trout and salmon as well as the spawning adults. While our club is primarily a Trout angling club, many of our members enjoy the fantastic sport Pike angling gives.

Now they have totally back tracked on that statement, from their latest rant on facebook:
"Will Inland Fisheries Ireland keep propagating the myth that Esox lucius is wholly native to Ireland?"

They've also changed , how long pike have been in the Corrib. It was 400 years ago, now its 200 years since they've been introduced.

RockyRory

from what i've been hearing on the ground over the weekend it looks like the ips and ifpac have sold out us ordinary pike anglers again. shame on them.

rpmcmurphy

RockyRory wrote: »

from what i've been hearing on the ground over the weekend it looks like the ips and ifpac have sold out us ordinary pike anglers again. shame on them.

Care to elaborate on that.....

Zzippy

RockyRory wrote: »

from what i've been hearing on the ground over the weekend it looks like the ips and ifpac have sold out us ordinary pike anglers again. shame on them.

In what way? And what distinguishes the IPS/AFPAC from "ordinary pike anglers" other then the fact they give up their time to stand up for pike angling, make submissions, respond to public consultations, attend meetings to put forward the views of pike anglers, as well as being "ordinary pike anglers" themselves?

kildare lad

The Trout Anglers Federation of Ireland (Tafi), which is the national governing body for trout angling, and the National Anglers’ Representative Association (Nara), have decided to withdraw from the policy review on the Management of Pike in Designated Wild Brown Trout Fisheries, presently being conducted by Inland Fisheries Ireland.
This unprecedented step has been taken because of the alleged bias shown against trout anglers and their representatives since the start of the review process, according to a press release issued by Tafi and Nara.
The chairman of Irish Federation of Pike Angling Clubs, John Chambers, said: “The policy review will continue with two empty chairs at the table.”
From the Irish Times on line angling column

RockyRory

rpmcmurphy wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that.....

did ye see news today, fisheries board going to start even more gill netting and killing pike down west. this is not the story us pike anglers heard from ford, burn and chamber over the last 2 years. more lies and broken promises again.

twin_beacon

https://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/kyne-launches-fish-stock-management-plan-on-owenriff-catchment-for-immediate-implementation-by-ifi.html

How much will it cost?
Should full plan implementation be possible, a cost of approximately €52,000 is estimated.
How many IFI staff are directly involved in this programme?
269 man days will be required – team make up will depend on method used and location.

Bogwoppit

This policy deals specifically with the Owenriff system, whatever about the rest of the country, there's no doubt pike aren't native in the Owenriff so what is the issue with removing them?
Yes it's a lot of cash but this system has a huge influence on the trout and salmon stocks in Corrib.

twin_beacon

Bogwoppit wrote: »

This policy deals specifically with the Owenriff system, whatever about the rest of the country, there's no doubt pike aren't native in the Owenriff so what is the issue with removing them?
Yes it's a lot of cash but this system has a huge influence on the trout and salmon stocks in Corrib.

All thats going to happen is, they will get a reduction in pike numbers for now. However, pike control their own numbers. So, the reduction in numbers of the predator, allows a greater number of younger pike to survive. In 2-3 years (assuming there is no further gill netting), you can have a greater biomass of pike in the river. This leads to more gill netting, and the cycle continues, at the tax payers expense.

Pike can never be removed from the Owenriff, its impossible.

Also, unfortunately its not just the Owenriff thats getting gill nets.

Is the stock management programme being extended to the entire Corrib catchment?

Stock management operations will continue in other designated brown trout lakes in line with IFI policy.

Bogwoppit

twin_beacon wrote: »

Bogwoppit wrote: »

This policy deals specifically with the Owenriff system, whatever about the rest of the country, there's no doubt pike aren't native in the Owenriff so what is the issue with removing them?
Yes it's a lot of cash but this system has a huge influence on the trout and salmon stocks in Corrib.

All thats going to happen is, they will get a reduction in pike numbers for now. However, pike control their own numbers. So, the reduction in numbers of the predator, allows a greater number of younger pike to survive. In 2-3 years (assuming there is no further gill netting), you can have a greater biomass of pike in the river. This leads to more gill netting, and the cycle continues, at the tax payers expense.

Pike can never be removed from the Owenriff, its impossible.

It might not be possible to remove them completely but it is very possible to keep the numbers low enough that their impact is minimal, or should we just give up?

twin_beacon

Bogwoppit wrote: »

It might not be possible to remove them completely but it is very possible to keep the numbers low enough that their impact is minimal, or should we just give up?

Leaving them alone, and letting pike find a natural balance is probably the only real solution. The gill nets has reduced pike numbers over the years, but there has also been a reduction in trout numbers for the same time scale, while coarse fish numbers have exploded as they have reduced predation. The impact of pike is just one element in on trout stocks. Gill nets is just an expensive sticky plaster, that keeps locals that use the pike as a scapegoat happy.

Bogwoppit

The Owenriff doesn't have any non native coarse fish as far as I'm aware, the trout and salmon in the system are under enough pressure already and the pike have yet to find your natural balance in the time they've been in there.
The pike in this system are not a scapegoat but a major cause of predation on the native trout and salmon, the methods they'll be using are not just sticky plasters but have been proven many times over to be effective not just in Ireland.

Zzippy

twin_beacon wrote: »

Leaving them alone, and letting pike find a natural balance is probably the only real solution. The gill nets has reduced pike numbers over the years, but there has also been a reduction in trout numbers for the same time scale, while coarse fish numbers have exploded as they have reduced predation. The impact of pike is just one element in on trout stocks. Gill nets is just an expensive sticky plaster, that keeps locals that use the pike as a scapegoat happy.

Leaving them alone is fine in a mixed stock fishery where there are ample stocks of fodder fish to feed pike. The Owenriff is an oligotrophic system with low productivity, slow growth rates of native trout, no coarse fish, but a prolific spawning and nursery system for salmon and trout from Corrib. Pike have already had a huge impact on the numbers of trout in the system, and without fodder stocks of coarse fish to sustain them, have a disproportionate impact on salmonids, particularly during the smolt run and spawning run.
I am very ambivalent on pike control in the likes of Corrib, but support it 100% in a catchment like the Owenriff where pike are a recent introduction and the system is an important spawning tributary.

twin_beacon

Honestly, I have no problem with the Owenriff being electro fished, I was under the impression it was going to be gill nets. However its in the FAQ section, hidden away that I have issues with. They say that they are going to continue gill netting on the lakes that have been netted in the past. I was led to believe that this process was to be stopped until IFI have made a decision on the future of the gill nets. Its not clear if they just intend on elector fishing the Owenriff, or if its business as usual with their pike policy. After reading the statement, I take it that they are continuing with the gill netting, but I hope I'm wrong.

What does the stock management plan involve? On a practical level, how is it conducted?
In order to remove pike from the system it is proposed to undertake extensive netting operations on the lakes using both gill and fyke nets early in the year to coincide with the pike spawning season.

Is the stock management programme being extended to the entire Corrib catchment?
Stock management operations will continue in other designated brown trout lakes in line with IFI policy.

Zzippy

twin_beacon wrote: »

Honestly, I have no problem with the Owenriff being electro fished, I was under the impression it was going to be gill nets. However its in the FAQ section, hidden away that I have issues with. They say that they are going to continue gill netting on the lakes that have been netted in the past. I was led to believe that this process was to be stopped until IFI have made a decision on the future of the gill nets. Its not clear if they just intend on elector fishing the Owenriff, or if its business as usual with their pike policy. After reading the statement, I take it that they are continuing with the gill netting, but I hope I'm wrong.

Existing policy continues until a new policy is decided. Policies are not suspended while an updated policy is worked on. Pike control on Corrib continues until a new policy says otherwise, or not.
The Owenriff project involves gill nets, fyke nets and electro-fishing, dependent on location and time of year.

twin_beacon

https://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/statement-from-inland-fisheries-ireland-on-the-issue-of-pike-and-trout-management.html

right you are, I thought they had suspended the everything until they had came to an agreement on future policy.

kildare lad

Would they not be better focusing all their efforts on Owenriff system?? I remember reading that you have to remove at least 30% of pike stocks every year to have a real impact on pike numbers.

RockyRory

Lads, ye can talk all ye want but the ips and ifpac have sold out pike anglers again by allowing this Owinriff cull to go ahead with zero protest. not a word from them. pike anglers on the ground were promised and promised that pike stocks would be protected and now there is a wall of silence from the federations. makes me sick of all the lies. and you have pikers on here who keeping changing there stance depinding how the wind blows. its sickening. :mad:

Bogwoppit

RockyRory wrote: »

Lads, ye can talk all ye want but the ips and ifpac have sold out pike anglers again by allowing this Owinriff cull to go ahead with zero protest. not a word from them. pike anglers on the ground were promised and promised that pike stocks would be protected and now there is a wall of silence from the federations. makes me sick of all the lies. and you have pikers on here who keeping changing there stance depinding how the wind blows. its sickening. :mad:

If you have an argument against the owenriff cull then please feel free to share it.

twin_beacon

RockyRory wrote: »

Lads, ye can talk all ye want but the ips and ifpac have sold out pike anglers again by allowing this Owinriff cull to go ahead with zero protest. not a word from them. pike anglers on the ground were promised and promised that pike stocks would be protected and now there is a wall of silence from the federations. makes me sick of all the lies. and you have pikers on here who keeping changing there stance depinding how the wind blows. its sickening. :mad:

Do you think IFI's pike policy would be under review if it wasn't for the work of IFPAC and IPS?