Earning my go-faster stripes...

eyrie

Huzzah! wrote: »

I really blame not building a proper base as the reason for my woes this year. It's totally worth it. Good to see you finding the love again.

It is worth it, but equally there's so many things to fit in and when you're running regularly for a good while it's maybe less obvious if/when it's necessary. Though in my case it was very obvious as I've had such an pathetic few months lately! How are you doing now?

Bluesquare

Welcome back . Good luck with the base building - how long is the cycle ?

eyrie

Bluesquare wrote: »

Welcome back . Good luck with the base building - how long is the cycle ?

Thanks Bluesquare! I'm not sure to be honest. The plan (Grads plan) is 6 weeks, but at the moment I intend to extend it a bit beyond that before moving on. 6-10 weeks maybe. But I'm not really sure what's advised when it comes to base building so need to read up a bit!


Base Building Week 3: 8th - 14th July

MON | 60 min easy runmute (10:26 pace, HR 141)
TUE | 60 min progression (10:51, 10:18, 9:32, 9:17, 8:40, 8:26, + cool down)
This felt a bit tougher than two weeks ago, but it was disgustingly humid and on a different route, so... :rolleyes:
WED | Rest. Looong day in Brussels for work and travelling back.
THU | 60 mins easy (10:16 pace, HR 146). Stole a new route idea from Murph D and headed out along the Dodder a bit. Nice to get a change of scenery.
FRI | 5 x 9 mins easy, 1 min hard. Almost 7 miles all in. A great fun kind of run without having to worry about pace.
SAT | 1hr 45 min easy (10:15 pace, HR 149). Absolutely glorious run. I don't want to jinx this weather but it's something else. I noticed that towards the end any little hill would send the HR up, more so than at the start, probably down to getting more tired at that stage.
SUN | Rest. Much nail biting watching an epic Wimbledon final.

36.5 miles for the week

I'm really happy with that week. Everything is still slow, but I'm starting to feel comfortable with the training again. I wrote last week that the plan was to step up to 6 days running this time, but actually when I went back to check what I had planned, it was another week of 5 days. And to be honest, I feel like that's suiting me at the moment. The few hints of niggles I was getting are totally at bay and I feel great, so I might stick with this for one more week before trying to build again. No strength stuff done this time though, so must get that in this week.

Murph_D

Catching up - well done on the thesis completion. Handing those things in is always such a massive weight off. Welcome back!

eyrie

Murph_D wrote: »

Catching up - well done on the thesis completion. Handing those things in is always such a massive weight off. Welcome back!

Thanks - massive weight off is right! It's nice having a life again too (i.e. more time for running :P)

eyrie

It's definitely harder to get back into the logging habit than the running habit! Couple of weeks to catch up on here



Base Building Week 4: 15th - 21st July

MON | 60 min easy (10:24 pace, HR 145) | Starting to notice the HR spiking less on every little hill, which it had been doing the last while. Good sign I think.

TUE | 55 min moderate (9:15, 9:14, 9:22, 9:19, 9:31, 9:13) | 15 min strength | Yoga
The day of good intentions, clearly - getting my strength training and yoga in. Haven't managed to make it a habit yet! Effort for the moderate run seemed about right, though I was tired afterwards.

WED | 60 min easy (9:56, 145 HR) | An absolutely fantastic run.

THU | Rest

FRI | 50 min easy + 5 min threshold (7:57 avg) | Another one that just felt great. Got a new VO2 max from Garmin, higher than it's been since briefly last year before the marathon.

SAT | 1 hr 45 easy (10:09, HR 153) | Hot and sticky. Lost my new VO2 point instantly. Life on the Garmin rollercoaster :rolleyes:

SUN | 40 mins easy/recovery + 15 mins strength training
Would have been a rest day but I knew I'd be away the next two days with no chance to run so I added this but kept it short.

Total: 41 miles

Highest mileage for a good while but I really count Sunday's run as belonging to the following week, so without that it's the exact same as the previous week. Best week I've had in ages though, felt like maaaaybe starting to turn a corner.

skyblue46

Delighted to see you enjoying it so much. Is there a race on the horizon at all?

eyrie

skyblue46 wrote: »

Delighted to see you enjoying it so much. Is there a race on the horizon at all?

Haha that was then! The week after, not so much... I just haven't written it up yet.

But regardless of that - yes, I need to race more so the plan is to fit in a good few 5ks over the next while. There's one in Celbridge in 3 weeks or so that I'm considering as the next one. I did a parkrun last Saturday and it was a bit of a head-scratcher.

eyrie

22nd - 28th July

I was away Monday and Tuesday and didn't even bring the runners thanks to being limited to Ryanair's not-even-a-cabin-bag rule. Wednesday I was back home and planned a run in the evening but ended up going for drinks after work and that was that.

THU | 80 min runmute (10:10 avg pace, HR 149)
Ran to work in the morning, started off tired but got into it.

FRI | Easy + 6 x strides (80 mins, 10:05 avg pace)
Nice enough run. The strides felt great.

SAT | Brickfields Parkrun in 23:53 (7.5 miles total)
See below

SUN | 80 mins easy (10:08 avg pace, HR 148)
Thought I'd be tired for this after yesterday but felt surprisingly fine. By Monday, however, the legs were dead!

Total: Just shy of 32 miles

So, the parkrun. Splits were 7:55, 7:55, 7:36 (6:10 pace for the last 0.1)

Given the week it had been (and total lack of following the plan) I thought I'd make the most of it and give a parkrun a bash to see what happened if I tested myself a bit. I hadn't a clue what kind of pace I'd be able to hit so I decided to just run this without looking at the watch at all and make myself feel it out. It was a strange feeling having no idea if you're going too fast or too slow, and maybe I was a bit cautious early on in hindsight, though at the time I didn't know. All I felt while doing it was that I was holding fairly steady, and when it got harder I made sure not to ease off at all. Just kept telling myself "this hurts but you're not going to stop". Apart from the first few minutes I was running on my own for all of it, which probably made it harder. I had no idea what kind of time I was going to end up with but I honestly felt like I worked really hard and when I stopped the watch at the finish I thought I wouldn't be too far off the last time I ran this. Turns out I was 35 seconds slower this time.

I really expected to see something a bit quicker to be honest, but at the same time I wasn't disappointed at all as I genuinely felt I gave the effort everything I had, maybe I just need more practice to judge the pacing. At the same time if I'd started quicker I might have died a death as I was definitely really working towards the end. Hard to say. In fact I think I hit a new HR max in this (got up to 198) so I definitely couldn't have pushed harder in the final bit.

As for the actual time, I don't really know what to think about it to be honest. On the one hand I've only had 4 and a bit weeks of being back to training, but then again when I ran the same parkrun in February I wasn't much longer back after a lay off, and I ran quicker (in fact I ran a PB at the time). Different weather conditions probably made a bit of a difference (i.e. the humidity now) but still I can't figure out why it's taking me longer to get back this time. I'm going to plough on and hope it comes right soon, and get a few proper races in as a better gauge. I had been planning a longer base building phase but I might just finish out the next two weeks of the plan and get back to some 5k training to try and work on some speed, and hope that helps!

ariana`

I'd be thrilled with the mileage you knock out even on a bad week I bet if you do that parkrun again in 1-2 weeks time you'll be a lot closer to your time from Feb, you're possibly just missing the race sharpness that only racing can bring? So 5k is the goal for the next while, exciting! Are you feeling a particular grá for the distance or just feel it's the best place to build from?

skyblue46

I think it was a very decent effort without a watch. I think if I tried without a watch it would end one of two ways...either setting off too slowly and leaving myself too much to do or setting off much too fast and having to be resuscitated after 2 miles. I'd say the chances of pacing yourself to your best possible time on the day with so little recent racing would be very slim.

hillsiderunner

ariana` wrote: »

I'd be thrilled with the mileage you knock out even on a bad week

I always think the same when you are grumbling about these bad weeks.

For the 5ks I always think you need to be in the habit of that faster racing. So you probably just need another go in a couple of weeks

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

I'd be thrilled with the mileage you knock out even on a bad week I bet if you do that parkrun again in 1-2 weeks time you'll be a lot closer to your time from Feb, you're possibly just missing the race sharpness that only racing can bring? So 5k is the goal for the next while, exciting! Are you feeling a particular grá for the distance or just feel it's the best place to build from?

Thanks E A grá is about the last thing I feel for the 5k, it's more of an 'exposure therapy' type plan to get me over my dread of the distance! Though to be fair it's really more that I'd like to work on my speed a bit before going back to longer stuff. There's plenty of work needed! But I'll be following you with the plan of racing more often over the next few months anyway, hopefully we can both have a bit of fun with it :pac:

ariana`

eyrie wrote: »

Thanks E A grá is about the last thing I feel for the 5k, it's more of an 'exposure therapy' type plan to get me over my dread of the distance! Though to be fair it's really more that I'd like to work on my speed a bit before going back to longer stuff. There's plenty of work needed! But I'll be following you with the plan of racing more often over the next few months anyway, hopefully we can both have a bit of fun with it :pac:

Exposure therapy LOL! You gave me a little giggle there :pac: Yes hopefully we will both have fun while developing a love of pain The odd PB would be nice while we're at it too eh, that's hardly being greedy is it :P

eyrie

skyblue46 wrote: »

I think it was a very decent effort without a watch. I think if I tried without a watch it would end one of two ways...either setting off too slowly and leaving myself too much to do or setting off much too fast and having to be resuscitated after 2 miles. I'd say the chances of pacing yourself to your best possible time on the day with so little recent racing would be very slim.

Fair point. To be honest I thought the effort was spot on, which is the part I was happy with, I just thought that kind of effort would produce a quicker time! Then again the splits are another story I suppose. Actually it's maybe a better move to use the watch for the first mile, I'm not sure. This time around I didn't want to because I hadn't a clue what to target anyway so figured I might as well chance it.

hillsiderunner wrote: »

I always think the same when you are grumbling about these bad weeks.

For the 5ks I always think you need to be in the habit of that faster racing. So you probably just need another go in a couple of weeks

Ha! Must stop grumbling Great week from you last week anyway, looking forward to seeing how the marathon training progresses

You're dead right though about the 5ks, more practice needed for sure.

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

Exposure therapy LOL! You gave me a little giggle there :pac: Yes hopefully we will both have fun while developing a love of pain The odd PB would be nice while we're at it too eh, that's hardly being greedy is it :P

Are you not bored of PBs yet after your last few months?

ReeReeG

eyrie wrote: »

I really expected to see something a bit quicker to be honest, but at the same time I wasn't disappointed at all as I genuinely felt I gave the effort everything I had, maybe I just need more practice to judge the pacing. At the same time if I'd started quicker I might have died a death as I was definitely really working towards the end. Hard to say. In fact I think I hit a new HR max in this (got up to 198) so I definitely couldn't have pushed harder in the final bit.

As for the actual time, I don't really know what to think about it to be honest. On the one hand I've only had 4 and a bit weeks of being back to training, but then again when I ran the same parkrun in February I wasn't much longer back after a lay off, and I ran quicker (in fact I ran a PB at the time). Different weather conditions probably made a bit of a difference (i.e. the humidity now) but still I can't figure out why it's taking me longer to get back this time. I'm going to plough on and hope it comes right soon, and get a few proper races in as a better gauge. I had been planning a longer base building phase but I might just finish out the next two weeks of the plan and get back to some 5k training to try and work on some speed, and hope that helps!

Really surprised to read you weren't much pleased with the time. I'd seen it on Strava and was well impressed you weren't far off where you'd been before the layoff so soon.

I'd say you're in pretty good shape heading into focused 5k training

eyrie

ReeReeG wrote: »

Really surprised to read you weren't much pleased with the time. I'd seen it on Strava and was well impressed you weren't far off where you'd been before the layoff so soon.

I'd say you're in pretty good shape heading into focused 5k training

Thanks. Dunno, maybe I'm being unreasonable so. I just didn't really think coming back this time around versus Jan/Feb of this year would be much different, but I was a decent bit faster then. But it is what it is anyway!

Kellygirl

You did great, well done. Last Jan/Feb even though you were back after a lay off too your fitness levels were different too from the marathon training. I do think it’s the ‘exposure therapy’ you need. Fair play to you - I hate 5Ks and would happily run a HM in the other direction.

KSU

The great thing about these logs is you are able to look at the context of training buildups.

I know you might not be fully happy with the result from the PR and comparing it to back in February but I think it is actually a very optimistic result.

Looking back to your previous return to fitness I am seeing Tempo's, intervals, Hills and even a 5 mile race in the build up. You were race sharp.

The fact that you are close to that result off base phase actually lends itself to improved fitness believe it or not.

The base phase is not designed to have you race sharp. At no point should you be digging in throughout the training, its all easy aerobic development, there is a couple of strides a slight bit of tempo effort work but ultimately these are just to make sure you are keeping in touch with these systems so that it is not a shock to the body when those sessions are introduced. I would rarely expect anyone to come off the base training in super shape (save perhaps a complete novice who is improving by simply running consistently) The goal of this block is to provide a good foundation to allow the body to fully get the benefits of specific training.

In short term the quick solution would be to go out do a few of hard sessions and races and those times would come down below where you were in feb (the fitness is evidently there even judging by your closing mile) but you would struggle to break through a self imposed glass ceiling before too long. The foundation work does require a bit of patience but as the saying goes "the bigger the base, the higher the peak)

eyrie

KSU wrote: »

The great thing about these logs is you are able to look at the context of training buildups.

I know you might not be fully happy with the result from the PR and comparing it to back in February but I think it is actually a very optimistic result.

Looking back to your previous return to fitness I am seeing Tempo's, intervals, Hills and even a 5 mile race in the build up. You were race sharp.

The fact that you are close to that result off base phase actually lends itself to improved fitness believe it or not.

The base phase is not designed to have you race sharp. At no point should you be digging in throughout the training, its all easy aerobic development, there is a couple of strides a slight bit of tempo effort work but ultimately these are just to make sure you are keeping in touch with these systems so that it is not a shock to the body when those sessions are introduced. I would rarely expect anyone to come off the base training in super shape (save perhaps a complete novice who is improving by simply running consistently) The goal of this block is to provide a good foundation to allow the body to fully get the benefits of specific training.

In short term the quick solution would be to go out do a few of hard sessions and races and those times would come down below where you were in feb (the fitness is evidently there even judging by your closing mile) but you would struggle to break through a self imposed glass ceiling before too long. The foundation work does require a bit of patience but as the saying goes "the bigger the base, the higher the peak)

Hmmm yeah I get what you're saying, you're making me think about it differently now. Makes sense. So would you advise spending longer on the base building (which is what I'd been planning previously) before moving on? Happy to take a longer term view really I just don't want to be sending myself backwards if I can help it!

eyrie

Kellygirl wrote: »

You did great, well done. Last Jan/Feb even though you were back after a lay off too your fitness levels were different too from the marathon training. I do think it’s the ‘exposure therapy’ you need. Fair play to you - I hate 5Ks and would happily run a HM in the other direction.

Laughing at that last bit K :pac: I'm right there with you really, which is partly why I want to make myself do this! Thanks :P

KSU

eyrie wrote: »

Hmmm yeah I get what you're saying, you're making me think about it differently now. Makes sense. So would you advise spending longer on the base building (which is what I'd been planning previously) before moving on? Happy to take a longer term view really I just don't want to be sending myself backwards if I can help it!

I think the 6 weeks is fine (unless you wanted to stretch it out in which case could repeat the last 2 weeks once or twice)

The overall plans are 20 weeks (including the 6 week base) so there isn't too much need to drag it out it is more just manage the expectations. PB's will come but they take time and the big jumps will be made after the foundation is set and the body can absorb the heavy training which comes after.

eyrie

KSU wrote: »

I think the 6 weeks is fine (unless you wanted to stretch it out in which case could repeat the last 2 weeks once or twice)

The overall plans are 20 weeks (including the 6 week base) so there isn't too much need to drag it out it is more just manage the expectations. PB's will come but they take time and the big jumps will be made after the foundation is set and the body can absorb the heavy training which comes after.

Thanks L, appreciate the input.

eyrie

Base building - week 5
Unscheduled midweek update! Sure it was the end of the month, so why not

MON 29th | 60 min runmute (5.8 miles @ 10:28 avg pace)
Dead tired all day, and the run was fairly miserable from start to finish. Tired legs from Saturday maybe, and then my stomach was acting up. Stopped to walk at one point as I felt like puking. Thankfully it didn't happen! A strange one as even when my HR was low the effort felt a good bit higher.

TUE 30th | 70 min Progression (10:34, 10:20, 9:53, 9:34, 9:14, 8:57, 8:21, 8:12 pace for last 0.4 mile, + cool down, 8.2 miles total)
Was going to push this out a day because of the tiredness yesterday, but once I got my gear on I felt good actually. 5 mins in and the skies opened, absolutely drenched through in an instant. That made it kind of fun though, although I was planning to blame any slowness on the water weight I was now carrying with my clothes and hair dripping Anyway the run went well, felt the best of any of these progression runs on this block actually, which I put down to really focusing on staying relaxed. Still pushed a bit too hard in the last mile which was into a headwind, but everything up to then felt really good, which I was delighted with after the previous day.

WED 31st | 60ish mins easy (6 miles @ 10:36 pace, 147 avg HR)
Out at lunchtime and back to being dead tired and dead-legged. So much so that I walked on a few little hills to keep the effort in check. Took a new-to-me route out through Irishtown nature reserve, which was lovely, but looped back through the industrial area behind it - less lovely... The smell!!


That rounded out the month at 160 miles, which is the highest I've hit since last September. No aches or pains until this week when I have a few, no doubt down to tiredness and not having (ok not making) time for stretching etc the last few days.

Thinking about what I want to do next and like I said already some 5k racing is the main plan, so when I finish the base plan I'll either start into the 5k-10k grads plan again or something based on this: https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20806851/solving-the-5k-puzzle/ (which I think the grads plan was partly based on anyway so plenty of overlap). Either way I'm looking forward to hopefully building from here, and picking out a few races to target!

Bluesquare

eyrie wrote: »

Base building - week 5
Unscheduled midweek update! Sure it was the end of the month, so why not

MON 29th | 60 min runmute (5.8 miles @ 10:28 avg pace)
Dead tired all day, and the run was fairly miserable from start to finish. Tired legs from Saturday maybe, and then my stomach was acting up. Stopped to walk at one point as I felt like puking. Thankfully it didn't happen! A strange one as even when my HR was low the effort felt a good bit higher.

TUE 30th | 70 min Progression (10:34, 10:20, 9:53, 9:34, 9:14, 8:57, 8:21, 8:12 pace for last 0.4 mile, + cool down, 8.2 miles total)
Was going to push this out a day because of the tiredness yesterday, but once I got my gear on I felt good actually. 5 mins in and the skies opened, absolutely drenched through in an instant. That made it kind of fun though, although I was planning to blame any slowness on the water weight I was now carrying with my clothes and hair dripping Anyway the run went well, felt the best of any of these progression runs on this block actually, which I put down to really focusing on staying relaxed. Still pushed a bit too hard in the last mile which was into a headwind, but everything up to then felt really good, which I was delighted with after the previous day.

WED 31st | 60ish mins easy (6 miles @ 10:36 pace, 147 avg HR)
Out at lunchtime and back to being dead tired and dead-legged. So much so that I walked on a few little hills to keep the effort in check. Took a new-to-me route out through Irishtown nature reserve, which was lovely, but looped back through the industrial area behind it - less lovely... The smell!!


That rounded out the month at 160 miles, which is the highest I've hit since last September. No aches or pains until this week when I have a few, no doubt down to tiredness and not having (ok not making) time for stretching etc the last few days.

Thinking about what I want to do next and like I said already some 5k racing is the main plan, so when I finish the base plan I'll either start into the 5k-10k grads plan again or something based on this: https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20806851/solving-the-5k-puzzle/ (which I think the grads plan was partly based on anyway so plenty of overlap). Either way I'm looking forward to hopefully building from here, and picking out a few races to target!

Again - great mileage ! Very envious of your stamina - can’t wait to see your building from here when you settle on done target races .

eyrie

Bluesquare wrote: »

Again - great mileage ! Very envious of your stamina - can’t wait to see your building from here when you settle on done target races .

Thanks BS - I would never have thought of myself as having much stamina to be honest! Just a sucker for a plan :pac:

eyrie

Base building - week 5 continued
The rest of last week ended up being a bit of a drag, for whatever reason. Just tired and not much energy on the runs really, but nothing bad either so no complaints.

THUR | Recovery jog (3.3 miles @ 10:55 pace)

FRI | 50 min easy + 4 x 200m @ 5k effort
Couldn't really tell if the effort was right for the 5k reps or not, I thought this would be a breeze since there was only four of them but found it challenging enough actually, down to overall tiredness I think.

SAT | 2 hours easy (10:29 avg pace, HR 156 avg/170 max - i.e. not so easy :rolleyes:)
Familiar route around the Phoenix Park, couldn't say why it was any different this time but it was a real struggle. Tiredness definitely the theme of the week. Happy to get it finished.

SUN | Rest. Actually a gorgeous walk along the Liffey out to Chapelizod, love that route.

Total: just over 41 miles for the week

Not a great week but it didn't need to be. Got everything done, just a bit more slowly than usual Only one more week of the base plan left so time to decide whether to extend it a bit or move on. I'm thinking it might be time to move on now and try some speedier stuff again!

ariana`

You've been very dedicated to base building, i'm interested to see what you decide to do next! No doubt you will do well at whatever distance you give your attention to.

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

You've been very dedicated to base building, i'm interested to see what you decide to do next! No doubt you will do well at whatever distance you give your attention to.

Thanks E, sure we'll see what happens! Well done yourself at the weekend, looking forward to the report