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Respond coming to my estate, what to expect?

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    #62
    MysticMonk
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 903 ✭✭✭MysticMonk


    EmoCourt wrote:
    I grew up in Donaghmede, so yeah i would have walked up and down all of the roads as a kid. Never had to dive out of the way of feral urban cowboys, or syringe wielding junkies lying in wait.

    Firstly I said it was a horrible area,I wasnt referring to junkies or urban cowboys(whatever that means).
    I meant it's a horrible area,row upon row of souless estates,laneways,sparse grass verges and lots of traffic..nothing in the place to enjoy.
    EmoCourt wrote:
    Donaghmede is far larger than one road anyway. Thousands of people spread across Grange Abbey, Grangemore, The Donahies, Newbrook, Carondonaghm Milbrook etc etc.

    The Donahies,Grangemore,Grange Abbey and Millbrook are not in donaghmede..they are all seperate areas,the donahies for example is in raheny(postally speaking),whilst millbrook is in Coolock


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    #63
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    MysticMonk wrote: »
    Firstly I said it was a horrible area,I wasnt referring to junkies or urban cowboys(whatever that means).
    I meant it's a horrible area,row upon row of souless estates,laneways,sparse grass verges and lots of traffic..nothing in the place to enjoy.



    The Donahies,Grangemore,Grange Abbey and Millbrook are not in donaghmede..they are all seperate areas,the donahies for example is in raheny(postally speaking),whilst millbrook is in Coolock

    Mod note: Can we get back on topic please. If you want to discuss particular areas in this way try the local forum for the area. Thanks


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    #64
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    No idea but from what I can see most people work. It seems to be largely eastern European living there but nice families, a lot would go to the same school as my son and they are very respectable. They are not scum just because they live in social housing, just people not in a position to buy homes or pay rent around here.

    Boards never ceases to shock me. We seem to have a large proportion on Boards with views that could only be described as class discrimination. They subscribe to the thesis that poor = bad and a poor person moving into the area is a bad thing. When my aunt moved to Surrey she also heard neighbors referring to the affect that a person of color moving in would have on the market value of a house. That was a fact alright, but the fact was made true associating non-white with crime.

    The same is happening here. I've no doubt the people urging the OP to move out would have been the same people in the 70s and 80s who said the same of other groups.

    Now I'm from a council estate originally. I'm a successful scientist for the American government now. People in my estate were good people sure there were bad ones but believe me there's plenty of unpleasant people in my "middle class" estate here.


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    #65
    MysticMonk
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 903 ✭✭✭MysticMonk


    Nice bit of virtue-signalling there


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    #66
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    MysticMonk wrote: »
    Nice bit of virtue-signalling there

    Well I'm from a council estate so I'm hardly going to be with the "they're all criminals" brigade. Sorry If I offended you.


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    #67
    hytrogen
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    Feckofff wrote:
    Existing homeowners need to stand up for what they are effectively working their whole lives for.
    Being an outright home owner myself coming home and settling from a once nomadic profession of globe hopping, coming home to see the modern stigma surrounding the term "social housing" and seeing how many other countries and societies have addressed the terminology, to detract any derogatory angle towards it, ie rephrasing it as public housing and where many apartment blocks are co-developed with councils and private landlords integration, etc. it really is an eye opener to the venomous apartheid that boils through Irish society.
    I also think seeing how we ourselves are allowing the most biblical catastrophy to our accommodation and property market to unfold while completely sleep walking through it, that the phraseology of your term " ..need to stand up for what they are effectively working their whole lives for..." Really does highlight the issues to our demise, that is, what is the essence of living in Ireland? Working to pay the mortgage or living to raise the children? I consider many have lost their humanity in this argument and am willing to stand corrected with valid arguements.


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    #68
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    hytrogen wrote: »
    Being an outright home owner myself coming home and settling from a once nomadic profession of globe hopping, coming home to see the modern stigma surrounding the term "social housing" and seeing how many other countries and societies have addressed the terminology, to detract any derogatory angle towards it, ie rephrasing it as public housing and where many apartment blocks are co-developed with councils and private landlords integration, etc. it really is an eye opener to the venomous apartheid that boils through Irish society.
    I also think seeing how we ourselves are allowing the most biblical catastrophy to our accommodation and property market to unfold while completely sleep walking through it, that the phraseology of your term " ..need to stand up for what they are effectively working their whole lives for..." Really does highlight the issues to our demise, that is, what is the essence of living in Ireland? Working to pay the mortgage or living to raise the children? I consider many have lost their humanity in this argument and am willing to stand corrected with valid arguements.

    I don't want to get too philosophical but socialism in Ireland is not the same as socialism in other European countries.
    Socialism in Ireland is bedevilled by our post colonialism attitude where sticking it to "the man" and taking everything you can from "the system" is seen as a good thing and praised by a certain demographic.
    Sadly these people are too busy sticking it to "the man" and screwing "the system" to realise that "the man" is their hard working neighbour struggling to raise a family.

    Sadly this post colonial attitude is so widespread and ingrained that it has become part of the irish culture.
    In the same way "we" admire cute hoors for getting one over on "the man". Or they way we see rule bending/corruption as a bit of crack and not an attack on the common good.


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    #69
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Feckofff wrote: »
    I don't want to get too philosophical but socialism in Ireland is not the same as socialism in other European countries.
    Socialism in Ireland is bedevilled by our post colonialism attitude where sticking it to "the man" and taking everything you can from "the system" is seen as a good thing and praised by a certain demographic.
    Sadly these people are too busy sticking it to "the man" and screwing "the system" to realise that "the man" is their hard working neighbour struggling to raise a family.

    Sadly this post colonial attitude is so widespread and ingrained that it has become part of the irish culture.
    In the same way "we" admire cute hoors for getting one over on "the man". Or they way we see rule bending/corruption as a bit of crack and not an attack on the common good.

    That's not true at all. I've lived in the UK, USA and a few other countries. Nor does it justify the biogtry aimed at poorer people.


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    #70
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    That's not true at all. I've lived in the UK, USA and a few other countries. Nor does it justify the biogtry aimed at poorer people.

    The issue is not with poorer people but instead with that demographic that for cultural reasons see success as screwing "the man".

    By they way, I have a limited income and no assets (Just a mortgage) but yet I never felt any bigotry Or classism that I have been aware of.


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    #71
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note
    The op asked specific questions about their situation, not the greater philosophical issue. Can we get back to trying to help them please


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    #72
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Poor doesn't always equal bad.
    Plenty of 'scum' and trouble in middle class ect.

    Yes the value of existing houses might drop, but that's down to prejudice and bankers.

    People having high mortgages or in negative equity aren't other people's business. People choose their homes, made the decision to get whatever mortgage they could and so should live with those decisions.

    People need to live somewhere. If they get a chance to have a home, and I'm assuming they don't get it for 'free, then why begrudge them.


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    #73
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    If social housing leases and those housing trust leases had a no tolerance policy for ASB would all be fine. But they don't seem to. Too much PC stuff is preventing it just in case it might be racist or some other "ist".

    I do realise that those who buy their own homes can be baddies also, but if you pay for it, save up, get a mortgage you more than likely respect it.

    No one would object to anyone provided a development had a management company or rules and regs that precluded ASB from anyone.

    Is that a wrong attitude to take?


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    #74
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    OP the only advice I can give is to give people a chance. Often prejudices are challenged when we get to know people. Yes social housing and certain minorities might bring down house price, but we're in a housing crisis and we can't dictate who does or doesn't move near you.


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    #75
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    OP the only advice I can give is to give people a chance. Often prejudices are challenged when we get to know people. Yes social housing and certain minorities might bring down house price, but we're in a housing crisis and we can't dictate who does or doesn't move near you.

    Won't OP be a minority in the estate, i.e he will be one of the few paying full price and crippling repayments?


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    #76
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    If you are leasing privately, or from the Council, or from a trust etc. you won't give a damn about the sale price if you need to move on will you?

    That is the stark difference between those who rent and those who buy.


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    #77
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    If you are leasing privately, or from the Council, or from a trust etc. you won't give a damn about the sale price if you need to move on will you?

    That is the stark difference between those who rent and those who buy.

    So now all renters are undesirable?


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    #78
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Won't OP be a minority in the estate, i.e he will be one of the few paying full price and crippling repayments?

    How do you know the repayments are crippling?

    To the OP, Tuath bought some houses in the estate I own in. They paid slightly above market value for them and put vetted tenants in. There was a dedicated liaison officer assigned from Tuath for the tenants in the estate and any problems with them were dealt by her. There were a few minor niggles at the start but since then there's been no issue. I doubt Tuath would mess around if someone was being disruptive.


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    #79
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Won't OP be a minority in the estate, i.e he will be one of the few paying full price and crippling repayments?

    Crippling repayments? There should be vetting. The fact is there needs to be social housing. Better than them being homeless.


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    #80
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Crippling repayments? There should be vetting. The fact is there needs to be social housing. Better than them being homeless.

    Why better? The fact that most people know they'll never be truly allows some to act like animals, if the threat of life on the streets was there, they might act as better neighbours.


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    #81
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Why better? The fact that most people know they'll never be truly allows some to act like animals, if the threat of life on the streets was there, they might act as better neighbours.

    Again I'll state there should be vetting and remov if a tenant is a problem.


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    #82
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    So now all renters are undesirable?

    Now where did I say that at all? Actually I didn't, nor would I.

    I said renters won't care what price a place they are renting achieves if it is sold. But those who have scrimped and saved and invested a lot in order to buy might just be a tad concerned about their outlay

    Is that ok with you?


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    #83
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Again I'll state there should be vetting and remov if a tenant is a problem.

    That's the theory but the reality is different as even trouble makers must be housed.
    Sadly the OP situation is little better than a spin on the roulette wheel.


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    #84
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Feckofff wrote: »
    That's the theory but the reality is different as even trouble makers must be housed.
    Sadly the OP situation is little better than a spin on the roulette wheel.

    Like all buying/renting situations.


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    #85
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Now where did I say that at all? Actually I didn't, nor would I.

    I said renters won't care what price a place they are renting achieves if it is sold. But those who have scrimped and saved and invested a lot in order to buy might just be a tad concerned about their outlay

    Is that ok with you?

    OK and what is your point? Are you saying you prefer to live near mottgage holders than buyers?


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    #86
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Like all buying/renting situations.

    But in this case the OP has a lot of risk and no reward.
    No future buyer will pay more because the estate hasn't been trashed or hasn't got a "reputation" However they will pay a lot less if it has.


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    #87
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    OK and what is your point? Are you saying you prefer to live near mottgage holders than buyers?

    Mortgage holders and buyers are the same.

    Yes they are.....


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    #88
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Mortgage holders and buyers are the same.

    Yes they are.....

    Sorry I meant mortgage holders and renters.


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    #89
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Feckofff wrote: »
    But in this case the OP has a lot of risk and no reward.
    No future buyer will pay more because the estate hasn't been trashed or hasn't got a "reputation" However they will pay a lot less if it has.

    OK but where is this definite risk coming from? I come from a council estate. So as I said I don't agree with a lot of the bigotry directed at it.


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    #90
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    OK but where is this definite risk coming from?

    Reality!

    Sadly not all council estates are magic bubbles of peace and harmony like the one you grew up in.


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    #91
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Feckofff wrote: »
    Reality!

    Sadly not all council estates are magic bubbles of peace and harmony like the one you grew up in.

    Listen. We'll never agree. I also represent women and minorities in science. I learned that if someone has prejudices they're never going to change by disagreeing with them.

    Yes some estates are worse than others but associating social housing with criminality is indicative of deeper seated beliefs.


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