Respond coming to my estate, what to expect?

steddyeddy

ELM327 wrote: »

People should be ashamed of being on the dole. I was when I was on it, and it spurred me on to get off it. Which I did after approximately 6 months in 2009.

PS: Nice job trying to sound verbose, but misspelling "preconceptions".
Good job.

Apologies I'm on a mobile. Spelling attacks form the bulk of your arguement here?

TheDoc

ELM327 wrote: »

People should be ashamed of being on the dole. I was when I was on it, and it spurred me on to get off it. Which I did after approximately 6 months in 2009.

PS: Nice job trying to sound verbose, but misspelling "preconceptions".
Good job.

Where you ashamed?

You seem to portray how "your tax money" seems to be funding free houses for people. Were you not at the time justifying to yourself "Sure this is my tax money at work, I deserve it".

I definitely wasn't going spare in 09 about my tax money keeping your head above water for six months. Because that is not what a normal society should think.

I should be, and am, happy to help someone out of a tough situation, get them by, or carry certain sections of society that require lifetime help.

I also had a six month period on the social welfare. I wasn't ashamed of it. Then again I didn't worry about if people thought I was a lifer, a scrounge or a waster. I knew I lost my job, and it took me that time to find a job in that field.

TheDoc

ELM327 wrote: »

I appreciate that you are obviously giving a genuine effort to read my post and trying to comprehend where I am coming from. It's a change from the usual banana throwing arguments I see on these fora.

But on the other hand, how can I be expected to be ok with people who haven't worked a day in their life being given something (or technically, the use of an asset) that I cannot afford. I have a 2 hour commute, waking at 5.45am every day. It is simply inequitable to hand someone that house which i cannot afford, for free! How can that be!

Because this is how a civil, normal, society works.

I'm not putting forward we just accept or deal with the scam artists. But apart from the obvious mitigating citizens (disabled, mentally ill, terminally ill, physically ill, OAP) who I assume you do not have issues with, or I'll stop being so civil in my posting, there are "normal" people or families, who have hard times too.

Imagine for a second a family that's income was based on the skill of lets say crystal. Waterford Crystal is an example that is decent because I know people from that situation. You have been living a very fine life, could buy a house, could provide your family opportunities, all fine, but then the skill you had, the highly set skill, years of experience, becomes no longer required.

This is a normal person, a normal family, that last month were fine, and now find themselves redundant. And with that skillet, you don't just want and find another job. There is time required to retrain. First time should be alloted to see if the person can get work in the same field, utilising their skillset and experience. Not go from master crystal make or worker, to sanitation or working in fast food (like some social welfare officers think the world works) Let there be time to find work. That person or family would put forward a "well, I paid my tax and contributed, so it can look after me for a while"

And if its not possible, retraining might need to take place. That can take time, it's not easy to do overnight. Is that person going into a job that will pay the same? **** no. So now there are issues with mortgage repayments, cause remember this normal family had a house.

Now throw into that mix, that during the boom, people bought overpriced houses, coaxed into poor mortgages by banks. And how many families or people hit this scenario, but couldn't sell their house and get some actual money back, but think of the people in negative equity. That had to sell, to just square up with the bank. Think of the people the bank didn't settle with, and owe nosebleeding amounts to the banks, even after their house sale.

And you start to get an idea of how "normal" people slide into these unfortunate situations where they need help. They don't need pity, they dont need abuse they dont need their nose turned down on them. Once contributing hard working, tax contributing families and people, now need the same help, and get met with this.

Grolschevik

ELM327 wrote: »

as some who studied politics and economical theory for a number of years,

Argument from authority fail.

steddyeddy

The_Conductor wrote: »

Yes- there is a perverse incentive- to stay at home and not actively try to better yourself. This has been widely acknowledged- by all manner of different organisations. Its suggested that the government have invited the IMF back for a unique, prescriptive programme- to try to deal with this- as politically its toxic as hell even talking about it. The IMF have agreed to set up a whole new programme for Ireland- despite the fact that we are out of our mandated programme- at the specific behest of the government. Its a first for a country not currently in an IMF programme.

Well motivation has been well studied by groups interested in behavioural economics at Harvard business school. They find that actually additional pay does not lead to increased work performance. I.e bonuses don't work. It's other factors that motivate, recognition or self esteem for instance.

I'd love to see the studies that allowed you to form your conclusions? Also are you saying social housing removes incentive, dole or possibility of dole for life.

jamesthepeach

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK I'll ask. I lived in a council estate in the 80s. What should I have been afraid of?

Me too.
Had to go back for a funeral a couple of months ago. Nothing has changed.
So glad I got out.
All our parents were salt of the earth when we moved in. Our generation started to get involved in crime and drugs.
A lot of my friends when I was younger are dead now. Drugs and prison. A lot are junkies now.
About 75% of us got out ok with no I'll effects, though we could have easily gone either way.

Most of those who are still there have the same issues now with their children.

I wouldnt like those odds for my children tbh. So I'll do whatever I can not to end up back there.
And I cant blame anyone for being worried about it.

steddyeddy

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Me too.
Had to go back for a funeral a couple of months ago. Nothing has changed.
So glad I got out.
All our parents were salt of the earth when we moved in. Our generation started to get involved in crime and drugs.
A lot of my friends when I was younger are dead now. Drugs and prison. A lot are junkies now.
About 75% of us got out ok with no I'll effects, though we could have easily gone either way.

Most of those who are still there have the same issues now with their children.

I wouldnt like those odds for my children tbh. So I'll do whatever I can not to end up back there.
And I cant blame anyone for being worried about it.

Sorry to hear that. It's not the case for my old home. A lot of us ended up doing very well for ourselves. I think when I was growing up working class meant work ethic.

jamesthepeach

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. It's not the case for my old home. A lot of us ended up doing very well for ourselves. I think when I was growing up working class meant work ethic.

Yeah it was depressing to go back and see. But it focuses the mind even more when you do return.

Viscount Aggro

I grew up in Oliver Bond Street flats. Heard of that place?

Listen, peoples lives are not messed up up - they mess it up themselves.

Its a Robin Hood mentality in the flats, screwed-up socialist thinking.
Its like a disease.

Growing up, I could not understand how all my mates had the latest cameras and gadgets. Yeah, right.

jamesthepeach

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

I grew up in Oliver Bond Street flats. Heard of that place?

Listen, peoples lives are not messed up up - they mess it up themselves.

Its a Robin Hood mentality in the flats, screwed-up socialist thinking.
Its like a disease.

Growing up, I could not understand how all my mates had the latest cameras and gadgets. Yeah, right.

Would you raise your own kids there if given the choice?

The_Conductor

Guys- as the OP appears to have vanished into the great beyond, somewhere- and the wild assumptions and assertions circulating here- aren't achieving anything whatsoever, other than riling folk- thread closed.

There were a number of queries posed in the thread that the OP has not responded to- if he/she decides to PM me with a damn good reason why the thread should be reopened, I will give it consideration- however, as it stands, I cannot justify leaving it open.

Nothing to see here folks, please move on...............