Overstaying tenants *Mod warning in post 1

airy fairy

Unpaid rent with 6 months.
Notice to terminate lease given, we have to sell, up to eyeballs in debt.
Prtb court ruling, tenant to be out after 28 days in determination order given.
No sign of them going.
Now what?

MOD: Advocating illegal evictions or other illegal methods will continue to attract cards.

Wexfordboy89

airy fairy wrote: »

Unpaid rent with 6 months.
Notice to terminate lease given, we have to sell, up to eyeballs in debt.
Prtb court ruling, tenant to be out after 28 days in determination order given.
No sign of them going.
Now what?

Guessing go bck to court and try n get bailiffs to get them out for you.someone else might have a better idea than me though

airy fairy

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

Guessing go bck to court and try n get bailiffs to get them out for you.someone else might have a better idea than me though

That's what I suspect, but I'm not sure of the way it works. We are thousands in arrears, prtb ruled that tenant owes us and should vacate.
They are still in the house.

Anyone know how long this process takes?
Are Irish bailiffs like the English system? Change locks and they are out?
Loosing sleep over this. My heart is broken.
We now have to sell due to arrears.

Wexfordboy89

airy fairy wrote: »

That's what I suspect, but I'm not sure of the way it works. We are thousands in arrears, prtb ruled that tenant owes us and should vacate.
They are still in the house.

Anyone know how long this process takes?
Are Irish bailiffs like the English system? Change locks and they are out?
Loosing sleep over this. My heart is broken.
We now have to sell due to arrears.

Thats bad im sorry to hear that some people dont want to pay for anything.I would assume so citizens advice would they be able to give u advice.either that or your solicitor might know.I hope u get the situation sorted out

airy fairy

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

Thats bad im sorry to hear that some people dont want to pay for anything.I would assume so citizens advice would they be able to give u advice.either that or your solicitor might know.I hope u get the situation sorted out

Thank you.
My solicitor away, I guess I'm trying to piece together what may happen.
It's frustrating.
I'm an accidental landlord.
Tenants have more rights than my right to pay a mortgage.
Another night awake!
Thanks again

handlemaster

Its a broken system one trip to court should have all this sorted. All you can do is wait for the solicitor to come back.

airy fairy

handlemaster wrote: »

Its a broken system one trip to court should have all this sorted. All you can do is wait for the solicitor to come back.

Yes, it's broken, both the laws and the prtb.

The very strong anti-LL contingent on this forum could do with reading this thread a few times to see why LLs are doing what ever they can to mitigate risk in the places they let.

All the power is with the tenants and it's very wrong.

handlemaster

Liana Late Somebody wrote: »

The very strong anti-LL contingent on this forum could do with reading this thread a few times to see why LLs are doing what ever they can to mitigate risk in the places they let.

All the power is with the tenants and it's very wrong.

Im sure they will be crying out that the tenant should be followed for all that is owned. On this note is it possible to attach an legal order to their payements be that salary or social welfare that X % is paid to the landlord first before the X tenant receives it ?

airy fairy

handlemaster wrote: »

Im sure they will be crying out that the tenant should be followed for all that is owned. On this note is it possible to attach an legal order to their payements be that salary or social welfare that X % is paid to the landlord first before the X tenant receives it ?

We've been told we'll never see the money that is owed. Not to mention the state of the property when the tenant eventually goes and the cost that will incur.

Both myself and my spouse living on the edge.
We were good landlords, perfect property, anything that was needed was given.
We are being treated like we owe the tenant, that it's ok to stay for free for as long as the tenant wishes. Does the prtb and the system not realise we deserve rights.
There are rouge landlords out there, but there are also Joe Blogs landlords who own a second property, a lot because of negative equity, that are simply trying to keep afloat.
The bank will take the property soon, along with the one we're living in.
We can't take.much more.
Don't know where to turn.

Michael D Not Higgins

handlemaster wrote: »

Im sure they will be crying out that the tenant should be followed for all that is owned. On this note is it possible to attach an legal order to their payements be that salary or social welfare that X % is paid to the landlord first before the X tenant receives it ?

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I understand they can make an attachment of earnings to social welfare payments under certain circumstances. These can be quite low, like €5 a week, so a debt of thousands could take many years to pay back.

GGTrek

Liana Late Somebody wrote: »

The very strong anti-LL contingent on this forum could do with reading this thread a few times to see why LLs are doing what ever they can to mitigate risk in the places they let.

All the power is with the tenants and it's very wrong.

Have you noticed how they disappeared from this thread? Especially the one who wants to ban everything (ban deposits, ban landlords that discriminate based tenant economic conditions, ...). You look at the RTB adjudications database and you see that the vast majority of cases nowadays are: overholding combined with non-payment of rent, hardly the kind of problems the particular poster is worried about. The problem is ideology: if you are a communist/socialist at heart then your view is totally biased and no serious discussion can be had.

Wanderer78

Wow, what a train wreck of a system! Best of luck with it op

Squatter

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

Thats bad im sorry to hear that some people dont want to pay for anything.I would assume so citizens advice would they be able to give u advice.either that or your solicitor might know.I hope u get the situation sorted out

"Citizens Advice" is the UK version. In Ireland, it's called "Citizens Information" - a small but important difference.

I suspect that, given the tendency of some Irish people to sue for everything, it was decided that calling a service "Advice" might lead to it being sued if any of its clients received what they thought was bad or incomplete advice. Hence information is provided, based largely on what is available on the excellent CI website, not advice - just in case!

In the case of this unfortunate landlord, I suspect that CI would simply refer them to the PRTB (as the "experts") or inform them of the existence of two Irish landlord bodies that might be able to advise them:

Irish Property Owners Association or https://www.irishlandlord.com

airy fairy

Squatter wrote: »

"Citizens Advice" is the UK version. In Ireland, it's called "Citizens Information" - a small but important difference.

I suspect that, given the tendency of some Irish people to sue for everything, it was decided that calling a service "Advice" might lead to it being sued if any of its clients received what they thought was bad or incomplete advice. Hence information is provided, based largely on what is available on the excellent CI website, not advice - just in case!

In the case of this unfortunate landlord, I suspect that CI would simply refer them to the PRTB (as the "experts") or inform them of the existence of two Irish landlord bodies that might be able to advise them:

Irish Property Owners Association or https://www.irishlandlord.com

The tenant is now not my tenant, I assume, as he has ignored the rtb determination order, has not appealed and not paying rent. I assume he cannot ring the rtb for his advice as to what to do now.
I do know he is playing the system, and one housing advisory board gave him the tools of information so he could do so.
My next port of call... can I go straight to appoint a sheriff or bailiff?

GGTrek

airy fairy wrote: »

Squatter wrote: »

"Citizens Advice" is the UK version.   In Ireland, it's called "Citizens Information" - a small but important difference.

I suspect that, given the tendency of some Irish people to sue for everything, it was decided that calling a service "Advice" might lead to it being sued if any of its clients received what they thought was bad or incomplete advice.   Hence information is provided, based largely on what is available on the excellent CI website, not advice - just in case!

In the case of this unfortunate landlord, I suspect that CI would simply refer them to the PRTB (as the "experts")  or inform them of the existence of two Irish landlord bodies that might be able to advise them:

Irish Property Owners Association    or   https://www.irishlandlord.com

The tenant is now not my tenant, I assume, as he has ignored the rtb determination order, has not appealed and not paying rent. I assume he cannot ring the rtb for his advice as to what to do now.
I do know he is playing the system, and one housing advisory board gave him the tools of information so he could do so.
My next port of call... can I go straight to appoint a sheriff or bailiff?

IPOA and Irish landlord are useless. A landlord in Ireland is on his/her own. To save money on solicitor costs you can enforce the order on your own by following this process:
https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/de---dispute-enforcement/circuitcourtenforcement-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Skip the pre-litigation letter, niceties should be off by this time. All the samples and District Court procedure are there, the enforcement case is pretty slam dunk case if you can fill in all the forms and follow procedure (you will save around 1.5-2k on solicitor and barrister).

As I said if you are in Dublin and push the District Court officer, in 3 months you will get an hearing and after you get the judge eviction summons you call the Sheriff (pay his high fees) requesting Garda assistance since force will be probably needed and you pay for the locksmith for the day (have one ready yourself, do not expect the Sheriff to provide a locksmith)

Even the RTB can enforce it for you (at their own expense), but expect massive delays in such case (it is not their money at stake), in December 2016 they were enforcing the determination orders of Feb-May 2016 (RTB is a real joke on landlords!):
http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/de---dispute-enforcement/enforcement-request-form-20-june-20177B302BE93945.pdf?sfvrsn=2
https://www.rtb.ie/media-research/court-decisions/enforcement-of-orders/2016

As you can see more than 90% of the cases of enforcement are non-paying or overholding tenants, proving again that the communist posters issues with deposits in this forum are rare cases not worth of building their great guarantee scheme. What is needed is a fast eviction process like in the US to kick out non-paying/anti-social tenants. Reality has always got the bad habit of kicking the teeth of ideology.


Without saying in which county the property is located it is difficult to provide further help.

GarIT

airy fairy wrote: »

The tenant is now not my tenant, I assume, as he has ignored the rtb determination order, has not appealed and not paying rent. I assume he cannot ring the rtb for his advice as to what to do now.
I do know he is playing the system, and one housing advisory board gave him the tools of information so he could do so.
My next port of call... can I go straight to appoint a sheriff or bailiff?

One mistake here, the tenant is your tenant and retains all the rights of a tenant. If you fail to fulfil your duties as a landlord you can still be sued just like you would if your tenant was paying rent. The tenant can ring the rtb for advice and all of the normal rules apply.

airy fairy

GarIT wrote: »

One mistake here, the tenant is your tenant and retains all the rights of a tenant. If you fail to fulfil your duties as a landlord you can still be sued just like you would if your tenant was paying rent. The tenant can ring the rtb for advice and all of the normal rules apply.

Typical isn't it.
And people wonder why there are less and less rental properties around!

LuckyLloyd

GGTrek wrote: »

Have you noticed how they disappeared from this thread? Especially the one who wants to ban everything (ban deposits, ban landlords that discriminate based tenant economic conditions, ...). You look at the RTB adjudications database and you see that the vast majority of cases nowadays are: overholding combined with non-payment of rent, hardly the kind of problems the particular poster is worried about. The problem is ideology: if you are a communist/socialist at heart then your view is totally biased and no serious discussion can be had.

I would have no problem supporting a change of law to expedite the evictions process in cases of overholding / non payment.

PhoenixParker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I would have no problem supporting a change of law to expedite the evictions process in cases of overholding / non payment.

Neither would I. I don't think I know of a poster on the forum who doesn't think what airy fairy is going through simply should never happen.

I don't engage with nox as a matter of principle so I stayed away.

GGTrek

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

Have you noticed how they disappeared from this thread? Especially the one who wants to ban everything (ban deposits, ban landlords that discriminate based tenant economic conditions, ...). You look at the RTB adjudications database and you see that the vast majority of cases nowadays are: overholding combined with non-payment of rent, hardly the kind of problems the particular poster is worried about. The problem is ideology: if you are a communist/socialist at heart then your view is totally biased and no serious discussion can be had.

I would have no problem supporting a change of law to expedite the evictions process in cases of overholding / non payment.

It wasn't you I was referring to. There is a particular poster who is a social welfare tenant.

4ensic15

GGTrek wrote: »

IPOA and Irish landlord are useless. A landlord in Ireland is on his/her own. To save money on solicitor costs you can enforce the order on your own by following this process:
https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/de---dispute-enforcement/circuitcourtenforcement-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Skip the pre-litigation letter, niceties should be off by this time. All the samples and District Court procedure are there, the enforcement case is pretty slam dunk case if you can fill in all the forms and follow procedure (you will save around 1.5-2k on solicitor and barrister).

As I said if you are in Dublin and push the District Court officer, in 3 months you will get an hearing and after you get the judge eviction summons you call the Sheriff (pay his high fees) requesting Garda assistance since force will be probably needed and you pay for the locksmith for the day (have one ready yourself, do not expect the Sheriff to provide a locksmith)

Even the RTB can enforce it for you (at their own expense), but expect massive delays in such case (it is not their money at stake), in December 2016 they were enforcing the determination orders of Feb-May 2016 (RTB is a real joke on landlords!):
http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/de---dispute-enforcement/enforcement-request-form-20-june-20177B302BE93945.pdf?sfvrsn=2
https://www.rtb.ie/media-research/court-decisions/enforcement-of-orders/2016

As you can see more than 90% of the cases of enforcement are non-paying or overholding tenants, proving again that the communist posters issues with deposits in this forum are rare cases not worth of building their great guarantee scheme. What is needed is a fast eviction process like in the US to kick out non-paying/anti-social tenants. Reality has always got the bad habit of kicking the teeth of ideology.


Without saying in which county the property is located it is difficult to provide further help.

When was the District Court given this jurisdiction?

GGTrek

Sorry should have said Circuit court. It is clear however from all the links provided.

Klonker

Was this tenant getting any state help with their rent payments?

jamesthepeach

Reading this thread is exactly the risk I was trying to avoid when I stopped renting in Ireland and went to short term let's.

I feel for you op.
The govt have put you on this situation.
Totally screwed you. You are on the road out of the situation and Once you get it though at least you will be done with it. Look on the bright side.

Imagine all the other or suckers who are still exposed to the chances of this happening.

The_Conductor

GGTrek wrote: »

It wasn't you I was referring to. There is a particular poster who is a social welfare tenant.

I know who you have in mind.
They earned themselves a 1 week ban a few days back- thats why they haven't been around.

airy fairy

Yes, the tenant was getting state help. Literally.
Money is allowed be lodged to tenants account for rent, unfortunately with the screwed system the way it is, the tenant decided to keep the money and not pass it on.
As a landlord, I gave the tenant respect. The tenant wanted for nothing in this property. Everything was above board and legal.
I'm being punished for owning a second property ( although owing it won't be a term I'll be using soon when the bank take it, and my family home with it).

c montgomery

airy fairy wrote: »

Yes, the tenant was getting state help. Literally.
Money is allowed be lodged to tenants account for rent, unfortunately with the screwed system the way it is, the tenant decided to keep the money and not pass it on.
As a landlord, I gave the tenant respect. The tenant wanted for nothing in this property. Everything was above board and legal.
I'm being punished for owning a second property ( although owing it won't be a term I'll be using soon when the bank take it, and my family home with it).

This is why I won't rent to a rent allowance person directly, too much risk.

On a side note I applied to the long term rental scheme last month and was told by cork co. Council that they don't need the house, crises must be over.

davo10

airy fairy wrote: »

Yes, the tenant was getting state help. Literally.
Money is allowed be lodged to tenants account for rent, unfortunately with the screwed system the way it is, the tenant decided to keep the money and not pass it on.
As a landlord, I gave the tenant respect. The tenant wanted for nothing in this property. Everything was above board and legal.
I'm being punished for owning a second property ( although owing it won't be a term I'll be using soon when the bank take it, and my family home with it).

Surely that is theft by the tenant? Have you been in touch with the CoCo? The gardai should be involved here.

airy fairy

davo10 wrote: »

Surely that is theft by the tenant? Have you been in touch with the CoCo? The gardai should be involved here.

Unfortunately, due to FOI we cannot do a thing because the social welfare cannot comment whether the money was given or how much. We couldn't even ask for receipts to prove tenant was paid from social welfare to show in the rtb case.

davo10

airy fairy wrote: »

Unfortunately, due to FOI we cannot do a thing because the social welfare cannot comment whether the money was given or how much. We couldn't even ask for receipts to prove tenant was paid from social welfare to show in the rtb case.

This is head wrecking, the tenant is stealing from the state by keeping the money, and from you by not paying, yet is protected by tenancy law.