Ex, maintainance , joint mortgage

Cinderbabe17

....

Xterminator

Hi OP

he is paying about 50% of his net wages (assuming higher rate of tax) & and has to live somewhere himself too. I'm not sure what you think he can afford? Separated couple rarely can afford the same lifestyle separately they enjoyed together.

Im sympathetic to your difficulty but what he pays has to leave him enough to live on, don't you agree? PS if you go to family court they can mandate a set payment, you should qualify for free legal aid. But you could end up not better off; that you currently are.

Bandana boy

You would need to see a solicitor and go the court route to agree maintenance.
That said you wont get blood from a stone
His salary at 750-800 a week That would make his take home ~€600 a week which he gives €200 to your mortgage
Leaving him with €400 a week to pay his own rent and provide for his other child.
You are getting his 200 and 200 of the state , not sure you can expect a massive amount of maintenance from him.

Could you save receipts on the likes of back to school bills and ask him to reimburse half ?

Stheno

Are you on the right benefits? One parent payment is only up to age seven?

Have you applied for back to school allowances and fuel benefit?

Cinderbabe17

.

Kimbot

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

I should have added that he lives in his mothers so does not have rent to pay... and he plans on staying there.

He still could be paying rent to his mother.

Stheno

You said you receive less than 200 per week on jobseekers.

That doesnt seem right as its 193 for you and 29.80 for each qualified child which would be over 250 per week.

Any increase in maintenance would be classed as means and would reduce your benefits payment

Cinderbabe17

..

Bandana boy

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

Sorry can i just again say that half of the mortgage is his!!! You are making out it is just my mortgage!!!

What i want to know is if i went to court obviously he has to pay his half of the mortgage anyway regardless....but would i be awarded proper maintainanace ? Proper as in as he says half od the mortgage payment is maintainance which works out at €49.37 a week per child when broken down. Which in my opinion does not cover half of their costs at all.

Also to mention i was totally reliant on his wages also to clothe and fund me whichim well aware that i can no more rely on him for.
So after he pays "my" mortgage every week he is left with €400 for himself basically.... and i am expected to live off €190 for me and his 2 kids. While i am trying to go to college at night and look for work abd pay for someone to look after the kids while i am at college.... because their father basically couldn't be arsed about them.

I am fairly convinced that if you go to court you will get something more than his current just paying the mortgage , but I suspect it will be not much more than that

As it stand your combined take home is €800 a week of which you get €400.
You can argue you have the costs of the two children but he can argue he is paying for a third child pretty soon.

You should be entitled to free legal aid and absolutely should start that process ASAP , but I think if you are expecting you will get another €100+ a week of him you might be disappointed.

Cinderbabe17

jonnycivic wrote: »

He still could be paying rent to his mother.

She had told me he doesn't when i was on speaking terms with her

Kimbot

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

She had told me he doesn't when i was on speaking terms with her

Things could have easily changed since then.

Cinderbabe17

jonnycivic wrote: »

Things could have easily changed since then.

Yes they could have but i know what they are like, i was very close to his mother. And i also know that yes he can put down that he is paying her rent when he isnt.

I dont know, but i think the fact that he doesnt even take the kids regularaly that i should be getting more than what he is paying. It is no way to fund my lifestyle but its what my kids deserve. I have to say nonto them all the time when they ask can they do the usual stuff that their friends are doing etc while their father is off on holidays or eating out in nice restaurants all of the time (i've seen evidence) and on the occasions he does arrive up to collect them he is always in new clothes while his kids are more or less in rags they have outgrown because i simply cannot afford to buy new clothes for them after i pay for groceries, esb, gas, tv, petrol, pocket money... €190 does not go very far.

salmocab

Sorry hes not going off on holidays, eating out all the time in nice restaurants and always wearing new clothes on what he has left after he pays 800 a month, I think you are getting a raw deal but he just doesnt earn enough for these things to be true

Kimbot

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

Yes they could have but i know what they are like, i was very close to his mother. And i also know that yes he can put down that he is paying her rent when he isnt.

I dont know, but i think the fact that he doesnt even take the kids regularaly that i should be getting more than what he is paying. It is no way to fund my lifestyle but its what my kids deserve. I have to say nonto them all the time when they ask can they do the usual stuff that their friends are doing etc while their father is off on holidays or eating out in nice restaurants all of the time (i've seen evidence) and on the occasions he does arrive up to collect them he is always in new clothes while his kids are more or less in rags they have outgrown because i simply cannot afford to buy new clothes for them after i pay for groceries, esb, gas, tv, petrol, pocket money... €190 does not go very far.

Well you have 2 things to sort out then:

1: Maintenance
&
2: Access

If I were you I would bring it to court, get the access sorted (At least that way if he insists on not see them when he is supposed to then you can always say you wanted to give him more access etc but he didnt bother.) And while in court get the maintenance sorted, I wouldnt start bringing up "Oh he has new clothes" or "he eats in fancy restaurants" etc. Just let the judge decide how much he has to pay.

Stheno

Why are you only getting 190 a week in benefits?

ELM327

If he's paying half the mortgage and expected to continue funding both your accommodation, his own, his own third child, and his own outgoings, how do you expect to get more?

Why not sell up and divide out the sale of the house and then go back to work. Why should it be expected that your husband should continue to fund your lifestyle? This comes up quite a bit and it is something I struggle with.

Checkmate19

I would go to court. He could only pay half the mortage if he wanted and you won't get that much per kid. My sis is in the same position and the courts won't really increase your payments. All he has to pay is half the mortage that's if the its a joint mortage.

Checkmate19

I mean to say i wouldn't go to court. He's only needs to pay half the mortage. So your getting 400 maintence if he was to push it. And i sure he will if you go to court.

Cinderbabe17

Stheno wrote: »

Why are you only getting 190 a week in benefits?

Because social welfare count the whole lot of what he pays into the mortgage as maintainance even though half of it is his mortgage debt.

XsApollo

I dunno what you could get out of him if he doesn't have it?
Is the house in negative equity?
If it isn't, you could think of selling and trying to get social accommodation.
All the money is going on the house, you would be better off if you wernt paying a mortgage and would get more money from maintenance into your hand.

Also you could give him the kids and house and everybody would proabably have a higher standard of living as in he won't be paying twice for everything.

Checkmate19

Well if hes paying the full mortage i think your getting a good deal. Alot won't. I think either sell house or just put up with it. If you go court your not going to get 400 in maintence no where near that as he'll only have to have half the mortage. My sister away from partner and she's paying half the mortage he's paying nothing or nothing for the kids either. Went to court got 50 euro for four kids and still doesn't pay it. Courts are a joke so i'd stay away from them to be honest.

myshirt

If anything he is likely paying too much from a legal standpoint.

It is sensible that he pays the mortgage to ensure the kids have a roof over their head (something you cannot provide), so fair play to him.

If it gets messy I would suggest that you both document the baseline expenses involved in raising the kids, you can use independent surveys as a guide. The key is to budget as you would have to do if you were together anyway. Each of you should contribute in proportion to your income to start. Pick what each person will cover, the key being that no hard cash changes hands.

If he is going to pay any cash to you, it needs to be paid to the Department as a contribution to what the Department pay you. When the kids turn 7 or older, the amount you cover needs to go up so to incentivise you to get out to work so that his contribution drops or levels out.

If the kids were to stay with him full-time, then just reverse.

Peanut2011

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

So after he pays "my" mortgage every week he is left with €400 for himself basically.... and i am expected to live off €190 for me and his 2 kids.

This is always the nightmare situation to get stuck in and yes it will feel as if you have a raw deal.

I wanted to point out that you are not looking after his kids, but yours too.

I still think that you should start the legal process and put all of this firmly in place legally, so if anything changed down the road you can get back to that.

On the other side, what would happen if he stopped paying for the mortgage?

After all if he is and bad as you say he is and if he has no intentions of leaving his mother's house, why keep paying for the mortgage?

OP I know you are probably still hurting with how the things ended up and you don't like the fact he has what appears care free life, while you struggle and have to go through so much more to make it better for you and the kids, however you have to be careful you don't make it worse. Would you not go in to one of the citizen advices centres and speak to someone with all the facts there?

Cinderbabe17

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Pelvis

You need to go the legal route.

ELM327

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

As i said in a previous post, it is not for my lifestyle, but what my kids deserve. Do you think i want to rely on him to fund me???!!! No thanks. I want him to pay up for hisour kids , after all he iswe are both the one that created this mess.

As i said i was a stay at home mother which by the way was because of his work shifts , it was easier for me to give up my minimum wage job to stay home and mind the kids than handing over my full wages for childcare.

I think if you haven't been in this situation you just dont understand. If i was to list off my outgoings every week and then the additional costs of back to school, christmas, kids birthdays, haircuts, school tours, other kids parties, my daughters dancing classes, my sons football fees, football boots, medicines when needed, petrol back and forward to hospital for my daughters appointments, to mention just a few well then you all would understand why what he pays does not work out 50/50 .

My understanding was that a judge looks at how much time the mother has the kids and how much time the father has the kids, adds up their costs, works out how much each parent has left over and works from that.

He earns approx 3 grand a month, more with overtime .... and i get less than €800 per month. Plus child benefit, i am also paying back loans we had and arrears on bills which built up while he was still living here and were together...Forget the mortgage for now. Take that out of the equation..... and just say i want to go for maintainance.... looking at those 2 figures above i dont see how €400 a month from him for 2 kids is fair at all. It's actually insulting.

I was going to correct everywhere you describe as "his" fault. But I got bored.

It took two of you to create the children and the situation. You should be both jointly and separately liable for the children's cost. It is not really relevant the earnings of the parents. You both created the children and he should not be expected to 100% fund the children.

Is there any good reason why he should, as opposed to why you should not be working? The stay at home mother days ended when the relationship ended. I can't just stay at home and expect my lifestyle to be funded, why should you?

This situation and the attitudes of the women involved always confounds me.

myshirt

Op, how are those life challenges any different than if you were together?

Everyone struggles to make ends meet. You both have to work together to meet that challenge as best you can. If you find you are not able to do it, you are reliant on state welfare, etc, are you not proving to everyone that you do not have the capacity to be raising kids in 2017. Would they be better off with the father given he can provide for them?

salmocab

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

He earns approx 3 grand a month, more with overtime .... and i get less than €800 per month.

based on figures earlier this is before tax, he has about 600 a week you said which is 2400 plus a little bit more for the calender month say 2500. he pays 800 to you which leaves 1700 for 4 and a bit weeks so presumably hes running a car possibly with a loan, eating lunch and dinner has some sort of social life with his new GF and has a kid on the way too so probably has plans to move in with her at some stage.
It is harsh but he probably has sod all left after that, thats not to say you shouldnt be getting more but be careful of doing sums based on what you think is right as judges might not find it so easy or straightforward.

Cinderbabe17

Peanut2011 wrote: »

This is always the nightmare situation to get stuck in and yes it will feel as if you have a raw deal.

I wanted to point out that you are not looking after his kids, but yours too.

I still think that you should start the legal process and put all of this firmly in place legally, so if anything changed down the road you can get back to that.

On the other side, what would happen if he stopped paying for the mortgage?

After all if he is and bad as you say he is and if he has no intentions of leaving his mother's house, why keep paying for the mortgage?

OP I know you are probably still hurting with how the things ended up and you don't like the fact he has what appears care free life, while you struggle and have to go through so much more to make it better for you and the kids, however you have to be careful you don't make it worse. Would you not go in to one of the citizen advices centres and speak to someone with all the facts there?

Thanks for your helpful reply.
I am well aware they are also my kids!! After all i have them 24 hours a day bar when he takes them for a few hours once every 3 weeks or so.

Re the mortgage, that is a big fear of mine that if he stops paying the mortgage what happens then, my family have said they could work something out if it comes to that.

I do not want to sell up as my kids have already gone through enough upheaval. They are settled here , school is across the road, their friends are here. This is their home. Why should they have to go through more upset. And believe me it hit them bad.

Look i know nobody likes people on social welfare and i feel i am being attacked here because of that and some are making me feel like i should be ashamed for getting a social welfare payment and wanting their father to pay for his kids... i do not want to be on sicial welfare and it was through no fault of my own. I was embarassed to have to go to apply for it and i cannot wait to be off it. But sometimes things happen and we have no choice.

If i was working and earning a decent wage i would still want him to pay for half of the kids costs etc. And i will repeat it is not for my benefit but for the kids. It is heartbreaking to see them miserable when they cant have or do things like their friends. Through no fault of their own.

I have a few interviews this week and am praying to god that i get a job from one of them. I cry so much over the situation, it is so stressful and frustrating, and yes it does feel like i am left with the raw deal.

And to whoeversaid he is not going out all the time and is able to buy nrew clothes for himself and go on holidays etc... yes he does. I see it all with my own two eyes and am told this that and the other from people.

I just hope none of you or your partners ever have to go through this situation as at times i have felt like just giving up.

Cinderbabe17

myshirt wrote: »

Op, how are those life challenges any different than if you were together?

Everyone struggles to make ends meet. You both have to work together to meet that challenge as best you can. If you find you are not able to do it, you are reliant on state welfare, etc, are you not proving to everyone that you do not have the capacity to be raising kids in 2017. Would they be better off with the father given he can provide for them?

Better off with someone that cant be bothered to see them and spend quality time with them??

Cinderbabe17

salmocab wrote: »

based on figures earlier this is before tax, he has about 600 a week you said which is 2400 plus a little bit more for the calender month say 2500. he pays 800 to you which leaves 1700 for 4 and a bit weeks so presumably hes running a car possibly with a loan, eating lunch and dinner has some sort of social life with his new GF and has a kid on the way too so probably has plans to move in with her at some stage.
It is harsh but he probably has sod all left after that, thats not to say you shouldnt be getting more but be careful of doing sums based on what you think is right as judges might not find it so easy or straightforward.

He has no car loan. And a great social life

salmocab

Cinderbabe17 wrote: »

And to whoeversaid he is not going out all the time and is able to buy nrew clothes for himself and go on holidays etc... yes he does. I see it all with my own two eyes and am told this that and the other from people.
.

That was me, I was just pointing out he couldnt afford that lifestyle on what you said he earns, also nobody or pretty much nobody had a go at you for being on social welfare its nothing shameful at all.
I also said you were getting a raw deal twice in fact but there are realities to money that you need to have information about before going to court because hes going to say he pays x in rent needs x to live and has another child on the way

Starokan

You need to get legal advice, its the only way you can get the answers you are seeking.

Everyone on here will have a different opinion and as such some will see your ex's point too as well as your own, its an emotive topic, most people have been through splits of some nature, it's never easy but with the greatest of respect you are in a way looking for people to only agree with you. I do think you will get a better deal for what its worth but is only my opinion based on no actual legal knowledge

Get legal advice and based on that decide whether it is best to pursue everything from maintenance and access etc through the courts. Your solicitor will let you know pretty quick if you are better off as you are

I hope it all works out for you

XsApollo

Basically you are spending all your money on the house.

You would have more disposable income if you wernt paying the mortgage, but then you wouldn't have the home.

You would be better off with a council house if you could get one and money in your pocket.

An option is if he is saying the mortgage is basically his maintenance ,
You could go to the bank and see about getting the mortgage payments reduced until you get back in the workforce.

If you got it reduced to interest only or cut the payment in half for a year or 2 you would have the extra cash in your pocket.

jimmycrackcorm

Cinderbabe17 wrote:

So myself and ex split last year due to him having an affair.

A solicitor friend once told me that both parties lose badly when couples split up and they would be better off working on their issues than let pride get in the way.

In your situation you are between a dock and a hard place and the best you can hope for is that you can appeal to your ex about making a contribution to his kids. It might be worthwhile trying mediation to get a better solution.

However you won't be entitled to a lot as pointed out, he has to have a life too. Going to court would likely make things worse as a court enforced judgement would mean the money you get is taxable income. Also consider that you will be comparing his net income after the mortgage to your weekly income plus child benefit and back to school payments etc.

You say he doesn't pay rent to his mother, he'll say that your new partner is contributing.

Try get him to take the kids more often such as every weekend or at least half the week so that he can both get proper access and ease your financial cost when he has to feed them etc

If you aren't on amicable terms with him because he cheated then you'd better swallow your pride and undo any bitterness to get him onside.

AvonEnniskerry

I don't understand how you are no longer on speaking terms but you know all about his life and payments now. You say he has no line and a great social life etc. But you can't possibly know this personal information about him beyond your relationship...

Am I right in saying he not only pays his half of the mortgage but he pays yours too? If he stops paying your hair and just pays maintenance and takes the kids a bit more would you be able to afford the costs of your half of the mortgage.

It sounds like you're very bitter and you're arguing with a lot of good advice that's been posted. I suggest you try and get him to take the kids a bit more to relieve your financial costs but I'd be wary about delving too much into the financial side of things...

CIARAN_BOYLE

The court won't make any order for the mortgage.

He can stop pay it and the bank will seize and sell the property.

A court will give maintenance. There's no guarantee if it will be more or less than he is currently paying.

judeboy101

Next July 1st pack kids bags, drop kids at this door and tell his mother you'll be back sept 1st.

jimmycrackcorm

Cinderbabe17 wrote:

As i said in a previous post, it is not for my lifestyle, but what my kids deserve. Do you think i want to rely on him to fund me???!!! No thanks. I want him to pay up for his kids , after all he is the one that created this mess.

It takes two to tango. This mess is because you both split up.

Cinderbabe17 wrote:

As i said i was a stay at home mother which by the way was because of his work shifts , it was easier for me to give up my minimum wage job to stay home and mind the kids than handing over my full wages for childcare.

You could let him stay in the house and take responsibility for the kids and move out yourself...

Or would his mother, or your own family not help with childminding?

Cinderbabe17 wrote:

My understanding was that a judge looks at how much time the mother has the kids and how much time the father has the kids, adds up their costs, works out how much each parent has left over and works from that.

Your understanding is wrong. We don't have at fault divorce for example. A judge would also expect you to get work and contribute.

Cinderbabe17 wrote:

He earns approx 3 grand a month, more with overtime .... and i get less than €800 per month. Plus child benefit, i am also paying back loans we had and arrears on bills which built up while he was still living here and were together...Forget the mortgage for now. Take that out of the equation..... and just say i want to go for maintainance.... looking at those 2 figures above i dont see how €400 a month from him for 2 kids is fair at all. It's actually insulting.

Why do you persist to quote his gross tax? You have a free house over your head, he can't live with many forever?

shaunr68

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It takes two to tango. This mess is because you both split up.

To be fair here, and of course we only have one side of the story, from what I am reading the relationship ended because he had an affair. Therefore the mess was created by the OH.

Westie17

Op the tone of bitterness, resentment and selfishness is overwhelming in your posts. It very simply boils down to 'blood from a stone', as another poster said. A judge will have to take into account your exs expenses as well as those of your childrens needs.

OH having an affair I can only imagine is extremely difficult to say the least but for the sake of your children and your own well being you really you really need to get over the bitterness and build a life with you new partner and children.

I would assume his plan is not to remain living with his mother for the longterm so will have to start paying rent. Presumably will need at least 2-bed for baby on the way and/or for the 2 kids you have together once access is agreed. Not cheap.

If you have a spare bedroom in the house have you considered renting out a room?

You also seem to be omitting the €280e children's allowance you receive monthly from your calculations.

Cinderbabe17

Westie17 wrote: »

Op the tone of bitterness, resentment and selfishness is overwhelming in your posts. It very simply boils down to 'blood from a stone', as another poster said. A judge will have to take into account your exs expenses as well as those of your childrens needs.

OH having an affair I can only imagine is extremely difficult to say the least but for the sake of your children and your own well being you really you really need to get over the bitterness and build a life with you new partner and children.

I would assume his plan is not to remain living with his mother for the longterm so will have to start paying rent. Presumably will need at least 2-bed for baby on the way and/or for the 2 kids you have together once access is agreed. Not cheap.

If you have a spare bedroom in the house have you considered renting out a room?

You also seem to be omitting the €280e children's allowance you receive monthly from your calculations.

You obviously have never had this happen to you....to go from what you thought was a perfectly happy marriage to finding out he had been cheating for months lying to his kids as to why he couldnt be home on time to do styff he had promised with them.etc etc.... i think anyone would feel hurt and bitter.

And yes i did state that i also get child benefit. And also stated that i am paying back loans we had and arrears that built up while he was still in the home.
Thanks

laylag

OP
I am so sorry to hear about your situation it must be awful to go through.
I would honestly say your best bet is some legal advice on this matter. I have been in and out of family court over the years with a lot of time wasted. Write down your figures, go to a solicitor or call citizens advice and see if you're entitled to legal aid. Ask them if they think you are entitled to more. However his income will have to cover him and his life which is separate from you now also. There is only so much to go round.

I have seen my daughter miss out on things over the years but kids are resilient believe me. They will have the most important thing and thats your love and encouragement and hopefully his.

Definitely arrange access so that he has the kids on weekends and holidays etc.

I hope things work out for you and honestly my heart goes out to you in this situation.

Stheno

@op have your benefits payments always been 190 per week?

And have you told social welfare of the decrease from 1200 per month to 800 per month?

XsApollo

I'll say it again,
It's a no win situation paying a mortgage you can't afford.

Your income is around 23k a year.
That's including the 800 a month from your ex that he says is half mortgage half maintenance.

There are a few 5 week months in the year , I think 5 , where if you could talk to him to give you another 200euro for the extra week , he should be anyway , that would make another 1000 a year roughly.
Which you might get if you threaten to go legal with him.

Go to the bank and talk to them about reducing your mortgage payments for a while until you get yourself sorted work wise and to take the pressure off.

Snugglebunnies

Op, if you're on Facebook there's a great group called "one parent support group (Ireland)". Its a closed group but you can request to join and post you're issue there. There will be loads of people in a similar situation to you and you will get great advice.

jimmycrackcorm

shaunr68 wrote:

To be fair here, and of course we only have one side of the story, from what I am reading the relationship ended because he had an affair. Therefore the mess was created by the OH.

Who's fault is irrelevant. Plenty of marriages survive affairs but this thread is a prime example of the heavy price to be paid if you decide to walk away.

I know of someone who wants to do that, albeit for other reasons, but ending up in a predicament like the OP just doesn't make it practical.

shaunr68

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Who's fault is irrelevant. Plenty of marriages survive affairs but this thread is a prime example of the heavy price to be paid if you decide to walk away.

I know of someone who wants to do that, albeit for other reasons, but ending up in a predicament like the OP just doesn't make it practical.

Your comment was that it takes two to tango. In this case the OP wasn't the one doing the tangoing.

I understand that you're talking about the implications of an irreconcilable break up meaning it makes financial sense to stay together regardless of the infidelity of one partner. That's true and you're right of course in this respect. But I don't see why the injured party, if they have any self-respect whatsoever, should agree to put this behind them and carry on as normal just because it's practical.

Westie17

Interestingly op opened same thread on another discussion board yesterday, since deleted it but comes up in Google search, same username.

Yesterday OH was paying 50e a week rent to mother, no mention of pregnancy with woman he supposedly had an affair with.....

Stheno

Mod

Nothing comes up in google, stop the speculation

Only helpful posts please.

Westie17

Pm sent with link to Google search. A friend of mine was reading it yesterday before op deleted it yesterday evening

I'll be exiting this thread, little point in offering advice if ops come on asking for advice but cannot keep their 'facts' straight.