Accommodation - Digs or Continential

Del2005

Magdalena Rotten Mulch wrote: »

Falls under the rent a room scheme so tax exempt up to 14k.

He could get the same amount by just renting 2 of the rooms. Why go to all the extra trouble for no extra money?

DoozerT6

Sounds to me he should just let the rooms out individually on a Mon-Fri basis only, with the tenants having full access to the kitchen facilities like they would have in a normal houseshare. (I.e. the students self-cater, not a digs situation where he is cooking for them) and he can share the kitchen and have the use of the sitting room for himself so he can have some peace. If I read the OP right, he will also have exclusive use of a bathroom as well as the sitting room, so the others can share the upstairs shower room, the kitchen, and if there's not already another sitting room, could a small couch and tv be put into the kitchen so the others can sit and watch tv and socialise with each other if they wish?

The Mon-Fri (or Sun evening to Fri) arrangement will probably work, as many people would be happy with this arrangement. People can bring their laundry home at weekends, or use the washing machine in the house if they're stuck, with prior notice given. I'm not so sure about the limitations on the kitchen mentioned, however. How would he even enforce this if he's at work? Plus, happy tenants are tenants who may stay longer-term, not people who move in out of sheer desperation and move out when they find somewhere with fewer restrictions. They're not unreasonable restrictions I guess, but they still curtail someone's enjoyment of their home.

caviardreams

Del2005 wrote: »

He could get the same amount by just renting 2 of the rooms. Why go to all the extra trouble for no extra money?

This was my point - I would guess renting out 3 rooms in Dublin would be > 14k income a year

ArnieSilvia

I can only imagine what a sad place it would have been for the students with all this restrictions. Why would someone endure all of this is beyond me. Why not just treat those students as members of the household? Would it hurt him so much?

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

He could get the same amount by just renting 2 of the rooms. Why go to all the extra trouble for no extra money?

Oh I agree, I've no idea why someone would put them through the hardship of providing meals etc rather than just rent the rooms and let them look after themselves. However I was referring to the tax which falls under the same rules regardless of it's digs or just rent a room.

caviardreams wrote: »

This was my point - I would guess renting out 3 rooms in Dublin would be > 14k income a year

You would just set the rent (and bills etc) so that it adds to up to 14k even if you could ask for more. If two people could achieve close to the 14k then it would be better to just go with two rather than 3.

Electric Sheep

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks for this I will pass it on. When I said he can microwave it I meant my brother puts it in the microwave for 2mins and hands it to the tenant who can take the meal to his room. Perhaps have a dinner serving time 6:30pm, anything outside this the latter applies within reason. Washing the cups and plates, they bring them down in the morning and place them in the dishwasher.

That sounds incredibly depressing. I think it would be the option of last choice for most students.

James 007

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

I can only imagine what a sad place it would have been for the students with all this restrictions. Why would someone endure all of this is beyond me. Why not just treat those students as members of the household? Would it hurt him so much?

The digs thing just seems to be too much work. Houseshare for someone just gone beyond middle age is not ideal too with students, hence why he would like extra space at certain times, I don't know if you have read all the posts.

James 007

Electric Sheep wrote: »

That sounds incredibly depressing. I think it would be the option of last choice for most students.

I was thinking the same. Is the better way to let them cook for themselves within a certain time frame in the evenings giving access to the kitchen and loose the digs option.

the_syco

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I think it would be the option of last choice for most students.

Teenagers don't pick the digs. Their parents do, as not being able to party hard 5 nights a week, as well as knowing their child will get fed regularly, can be comforting to many parents of 1st year college students.

And their parents are the ones who'll pay the rent. So, win-win.

Del2005

the_syco wrote: »

Teenagers don't pick the digs. Their parents do, as not being able to party hard 5 nights a week, as well as knowing their child will get fed regularly, can be comforting to many parents of 1st year college students.

And their parents are the ones who'll pay the rent. So, win-win.

How many parents are going to let their 18 year old child move in with a 40 year old single man who won't let them use any of the house apart from the bedroom?

Teyla Emmagan

Del2005 wrote:

How many parents are going to let their 18 year old child move in with a 40 year old single man who won't let them use any of the house apart from the bedroom?

It certainly wouldn't be my choice. I'd hate to think of my kid sitting in their room crying into their microwaved dinner.

Peregrinus

Mrs O'Bumble in post #22 is right to draw a distinction between digs, where you live with a family, and lodgings, where you live in a room and have some meals provided.

Lodgings used to be a thing but they no longer are, largely because it's a pretty cheerless arrangement and people prefer other forms of accommodation. In the current accommodation crisis it's possible that people with no other option would take up lodgings, but does the OP's brother really want to be positioning himself to target a market who would prefer something else but have no other options? He'll be sharing his house with a bunch of people who are mostly not happy about being there, and who will communicate that unhappiness in various ways. (Adolescents are pretty good at radiating a miasma of unhappiness to blight the day of everyone they meet; it's kind of the adolescent superpower.) Plus, he'll likely have a pretty high turnover of residents.

It's probably worth noting that in the days when lodgings were a thing, they weren't a thing that students made much use of. Students greatly preferred digs, or halls of residence, because of their greater sociability. Lodgings were typically occupied by single adults in low-paid employment.

Teyla Emmagan

Peregrinus wrote:

Lodgings were typically occupied by single adults in low-paid employment.

Yeah, my Dad was a lodger when he moved to Dublin first in the 1960s. Obviously he got out of there as fast as he could.

A lot of students are only kids, this wouldn't be a good environment for a first or second year student IMO. No sort of support structure whatsoever. No choice as to your fellow occupants. Even if you were with a family, or with other students you would have someone to ask for help if you got sick etc.

And as someone else said the only people taking up this option are likely to be very stuck, and no one wants to live with anyone who is unhappy to be there. Sounds very last possible choice to me. Unless this house is actually right beside a college OP.

the_syco

Del2005 wrote: »

How many parents are going to let their 18 year old child move in with a 40 year old single man who won't let them use any of the house apart from the bedroom?

This is pretty much all digs. You get fed, and you sleep in the room. If you want freedom to use the house, you rent a house with a few mates.

In saying that, most parents will have a chat with the OP's brother, and depending on his answer, will decide yay or nay. Since it's his first year doing this, most people will say nay, unless they're very desperate for a place to stay.

James 007

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

It certainly wouldn't be my choice. I'd hate to think of my kid sitting in their room crying into their microwaved dinner.

Guys, some people put a very negative slant on things. The meal that would be cooked would be cooked using a proper oven, stainless steel cover put over it and left at suitable location in the kitchen. The tenant comes in at a time outside the normal serving time and put their well nourishing meal into the microwave to heat it for 2-3 mins. Is this acceptable or does normal digs require one to sit over an oven all day long. Also do meals vary for each tenant or is it normal to cook the same meal but vary it from day to day.

DoozerT6

I would just let them cook for themselves, under the strict instruction that they each wash up after themselves after their meal. Otherwise your brother is tied into coming straight home immediately after work, at the same time every day, to prepare a meal which his tenants may not even like, tbh. Also, who will wash up/clean up after preparing this meal?

I think your brother is tying himself down needlessly with that arrangement. Just let the rooms out individually, Mon-Fri, and let everybody self-cater as they want. As I mentioned before if he wants exclusive use of the sitting room then it's really only fair that he provide his tenants with somewhere that they can sit down together if they want. If all the housemates get along and can at least sit and watch the telly and have a chat if they want to (or retreat to their room if they don't), it makes things so much more pleasant for everyone - your brother included.

Worth noting that if he opts for a 5-day arrangement, there will most likely come a time when one of the tenants will either want, or have, to stay up for the weekend for some reason. I would advise him to expect this (unexpected things can happen) and be amenable to bending the 5-day rule occasionally, for a few extra quid.

James 007

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I would just let them cook for themselves, under the strict instruction that they each wash up after themselves after their meal. Otherwise your brother is tied into coming straight home immediately after work, at the same time every day, to prepare a meal which his tenants may not even like, tbh. Also, who will wash up/clean up after preparing this meal?

I think your brother is tying himself down needlessly with that arrangement. Just let the rooms out individually, Mon-Fri, and let everybody self-cater as they want. As I mentioned before if he wants exclusive use of the sitting room then it's really only fair that he provide his tenants with somewhere that they can sit down together if they want. If all the housemates get along and can at least sit and watch the telly and have a chat if they want to (or retreat to their room if they don't), it makes things so much more pleasant for everyone - your brother included.

Worth noting that if he opts for a 5-day arrangement, there will most likely come a time when one of the tenants will either want, or have, to stay up for the weekend for some reason. I would advise him to expect this (unexpected things can happen) and be amenable to bending the 5-day rule occasionally, for a few extra quid.

He is already deciding if this was an option to rent in the uncles house that digs itself is too much hassle especially after work. The house is already set up with 2 large fridge/freezers and plenty of cupboard space. Staying up over the weekends could be allowed. But would it be possible to limit the use of kitchen/dining area/sitting room area which is all one room by the way to certain hours for cooking/chatting over a meal.

He has no problems allowing them to use the space 8am to 5pm as he works during the week. But in the evening could he allow a 2 hour period after 5pm for them to cook/chat.

Even if he is in his own bedroom he could still allow a certain level of flexibility for them to use the space.

Mrs OBumble

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

And as someone else said the only people taking up this option are likely to be very stuck, and no one wants to live with anyone who is unhappy to be there. Sounds very last possible choice to me. Unless this house is actually right beside a college OP.

Unless it's in Dublin, and you can get people who work there, live down the country, and travel home every weekend and really just need somewhere to sleep. In many ways they are ideal tenants, because they are able for running a home of their own, but just don't want to do so in two locations.

I guess it depends on whether the location will be attractive to them. From what I hear anywhere near both the M50 and a Luas line is.

James 007

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Unless it's in Dublin, and you can get people who work there, live down the country, and travel home every weekend and really just need somewhere to sleep. In many ways they are ideal tenants, because they are able for running a home of their own, but just don't want to do so in two locations.

I guess it depends on whether the location will be attractive to them. From what I hear anywhere near both the M50 and a Luas line is.

Thanks, its 20mins walk to the Spire, so it should be okay. However he would like to put some stipulation on the access for the cooking times. He would have no problem if they needed to pick up something from the fridge/press too outside the set cooking times. I dont know if something like this could work.

DoozerT6

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks, its 20mins walk to the Spire, so it should be okay. However he would like to put some stipulation on the access for the cooking times. He would have no problem if they needed to pick up something from the fridge/press too outside the set cooking times. I dont know if something like this could work.

Not sure tbh. That means the tenants HAVE to be home at a certain time to cook within this time window, or not get a dinner at all. What if they're delayed at work or a lecture, or are working a different shift, or just out with friends? And if all three of them are trying to cook a meal during the same time period, a) they'll probably be on top of each other in the kitchen, and b) will there be enough pots and cutlery etc for them all to use at the same time?

Also, would he afford them the same courtesy during this time period and stay out of the kitchen so they can cook their meal(s)?

It's one of the great 'ballet dances' of shared accommodation - the daily maneuvering around the kitchen at dinnertime Everybody just has to dance around each other. Or else live on toast, takeaways or microwave meals.

quietsailor

OP would your brother consider renting to mature students or masters / phds from another country?

I used to rent out rooms in my house when I went back to college as a mature student myself - it was an owner occupies house share agreement but because they were (nearly all over 3 years ) masters students they went home after six months so there was constant breaks between people.

I put the bins, tv licence, sky, broadband and rent in as one amount and the only extra was the gas + electricity.

If he contracted with a cleaning company to come in once a week that will avoid arguments about cleaning and he can put that into the rent amount as well.

Its funny but people will be happy with one higher amount than several smaller amounts that add up to the same amount.

James 007

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Not sure tbh. That means the tenants HAVE to be home at a certain time to cook within this time window, or not get a dinner at all. What if they're delayed at work or a lecture, or are working a different shift, or just out with friends? And if all three of them are trying to cook a meal during the same time period, a) they'll probably be on top of each other in the kitchen, and b) will there be enough pots and cutlery etc for them all to use at the same time?

Also, would he afford them the same courtesy during this time period and stay out of the kitchen so they can cook their meal(s)?

It's one of the great 'ballet dances' of shared accommodation - the daily maneuvering around the kitchen at dinnertime Everybody just has to dance around each other. Or else live on toast, takeaways or microwave meals.

Yes, these are the things to consider indeed. Pots/Pans make sure plenty in place. Affording them the courtesy should be okay too.

bleary

he hasn't even permission to live in the house Himself yet.
Why would your uncle agree to this unless he wants nothing to do with it anymore or is incapable of managing it.
If he owned the house himself maybe, if he was a laid back guy who would happily manage the place for the uncle maybe but why would the uncle rent the place out to someone who is so uptight they have scheduled kitchen access.
He basically doesn't want to live with people but can't afford to rent himself, that's really not the uncles problem.

davindub

James 007 wrote: »

Yes, these are the things to consider indeed. Pots/Pans make sure plenty in place. Affording them the courtesy should be okay too.

Im not too sure if you have considered the tax implications of this?

Your brother could claim rent a room relief if the total income is less than 14k (and he lives there), but this includes meals, and other service (you can share bills though).

The way things are in Dublin, he will get the 14k off 2 rooms, and maybe just have one as a small sitting room and share the kitchen - i don't think the restricted access will work - drinking water, milk etc!

James 007

bleary wrote: »

he hasn't even permission to live in the house Himself yet.
Why would your uncle agree to this unless he wants nothing to do with it anymore or is incapable of managing it.
If he owned the house himself maybe, if he was a laid back guy who would happily manage the place for the uncle maybe but why would the uncle rent the place out to someone who is so uptight they have scheduled kitchen access.
He basically doesn't want to live with people but can't afford to rent himself, that's really not the uncles problem.

He has already discussed this with the Uncle so managing it, he would do. Also he would pay additional to have the extra space and counter lost rent.

Del2005

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks, its 20mins walk to the Spire, so it should be okay. However he would like to put some stipulation on the access for the cooking times. He would have no problem if they needed to pick up something from the fridge/press too outside the set cooking times. I dont know if something like this could work.

I know there is a rental/housing crisis in this country. But can you, or whoever you claim to be posting for just stop this digs crap and rent the rooms as "room only" and stop trying to make work for yourself, or your brother, and just rent the rooms individually. Either live in a house share and deal with the hassle it involves or live alone and pay the price. Everything you have posted so far is why the looney left is killing honest landlords.

Peregrinus

James 007 wrote: »

Guys, some people put a very negative slant on things. The meal that would be cooked would be cooked using a proper oven, stainless steel cover put over it and left at suitable location in the kitchen. The tenant comes in at a time outside the normal serving time and put their well nourishing meal into the microwave to heat it for 2-3 mins. Is this acceptable or does normal digs require one to sit over an oven all day long. Also do meals vary for each tenant or is it normal to cook the same meal but vary it from day to day.

The deal with digs and lodgings is that the meal is served at a set time. If you're not there it'll be put by and you can have it reheated later in the evening. If you're not home by about ten it may be just thrown out.

I think the only aspect of your brother's plan is that he would require latecomers to take the meal to their bedroom and eat it there. That wouldn't be the usual arrangement.

Part of the problem, it seems to me, is that the house your brother would be using may be too small to be suitable as a lodging-house. Traditionally there'd be a dedicated dining room, and latecomers would eat there with minimal disturbance to the householder relaxing in the (private) sitting room or working in the kitchen. This house has a single sitting/dining/kitchen space, and that's the reason for the tension between your brother's desire for his own space, and the residents' presumed expectations of not feeling like they're living in an institution.

artichoke

Del2005 wrote: »

I know there is a rental/housing crisis in this country. But can you, or whoever you claim to be posting for just stop this digs crap and rent the rooms as "room only" and stop trying to make work for yourself, or your brother, and just rent the rooms individually. Either live in a house share and deal with the hassle it involves or live alone and pay the price. Everything you have posted so far is why the looney left is killing honest landlords.

Completely agree with you. Why going through the hassle cooking meals after work for your tenants, arranging a time table that wouldn't work for both sides when you could easily rent out the" rooms only" to professionals or mature students?

If the brother prefers his privacy, then he shouldn't rent out rooms to students or anyone at all. It won't work out with the digs option, I can see that coming. He won't be happy and it will become a tedious chore after a while with no help.
I wouldn't fancy cooking for a bunch of people every day after returning home from work tired and hungry myself. I'd say he is better off renting rooms only to those working in the city that just need to sleep somewhere during the week.

I have a neighbour doing just that, working in England, flying over every week and staying in a rented room. Sounds crazy I know but he has a house here and his wife doesn't want to move to the UK....

James 007

He is already ruling out the digs option. There is just too much work to it. He is either thinking about just renting the rooms only or rooms with access to kitchen certain hours or try and find another place. Unfortunately he only has few days to decide this now before it will be left go.

Here is one with a different type of restriction.

A private double bedroom, bathroom and sitting room is available in this quiet area for one person. (Ideal for a student). The rooms available are located downstairs in your own private area, while we (a couple and 9 month old) live in the house, we have two bedrooms and bathroom upstairs with a main sitting room downstairs (this sitting room is separate from your sitting room). It is an old house, but you have lots of privacy and space as the rooms available are located downstairs at the back of the house.

In your own sitting room, there is 40" Samsung TV with Android tv so you can watch Netflix, Showbox etc access the internet. There is a comfortable L-shaped couch, table and chair (for eating or studying).

We can provide a countertop refrigerator and toaster for your personal use, and the kitchen is available for washing up only.

Guest are welcome with 24 hours notice.

Mrs OBumble

I think that letting rooms only with no access to proper cooking facilities is questionable: even a bedsit these days has to have exclusive access to a kitchen and bathroom, and shared access to laundry facilities.

Legally OK because he'd be living there and they're licensees.

But really who's going to take a room with no kitchen access at all. You'd be as well off in a BnB in that case, only paying for nights you actually use.