Neighbour concerned over a raised patio

Cyrus

We live in a small newly built estate, of terraced houses.

The site is elevated and our house is at the end at the start of the terrace so at the leftmost side of our garden (opposite the side that has the fence between us and our terraced neighbour) we have a nice view of the sea.

Our house being an end of terrace (and because of the site shape) has a larger garden than any of the other houses so we decided to get a landscape gardener in to design a garden incorporating a raised patio in this corner with an area for a small table and chairs to enjoy the view.

The patio is circa 60cm high at its lowest and 80cm at its highest (the garden slopes quite a bit from right to left).

Our neighbours, an elderly couple, called last night to complain about the structure, questioning its legality, why we hadnt consulted them, its was going to impact their privacy etc etc.

First point being that its well under 1m so unless i am very much mistaken there is no issue around planning or legality. Secondly we moved in long before them and had arranged to have this work done before they moved into the house, they only moved in a few weeks back so 'consulting' them didn't cross my mind.

In any event, given the height, we are no taller sitting on this patio than we are standing in the garden (and its no ones intention to stand up on it) so their concerns about privacy seem a bit of a reach (especially given from either of our first floors we can see into the next 2 or 3 gardens anyway)

that being said they are our neighbours, i dont want an issue with them and i was as nice as i could muster after a long day at work.

what steps can i take to appease them, some planting will help but will take them, any temporary fencing measures or something?

Cuddlesworth

Cyrus wrote: »

what steps can i take to appease them, some planting will help but will take them, any temporary fencing measures or something?

You won't. Each time you bow down and take the unreasonable complaint, the next one will roll in quickly. Elderly people are the worst, they have nothing to do and tend to focus on stupid things to complain about.

Lumen

Take it a step at a time. Don't agree to anything hastily, or argue with their viewpoint. Simply try to see the situation from their view, literally, and then take some time to think about it.

Try and ignore your inner monkey which wants to rip their heads off and puke down their necks. That monkey will serve you badly in these matters.

If they get irate or escalate, do not respond in kind.

Alkers

Inivite them over for a bbq on said patio and calmly explain the points you've made in your OP.

Wabbit Ears

exactly, ask them to show you why they think its overlooking them and see if they'll let you stand in their garden, by their windows etc. perhaps it is intrusive.

Lumen

Simona1986 wrote: »

Inivite them over for a bbq on said patio and calmly explain the points you've made in your OP.

This has a low probability of success, in my opinion. Particularly since you are inviting them on to your territory to explain your point of view.

seamus

A raised patio is legal, you don't have to consult with neighbours, and there is no absolute right to privacy.

I agree with Lumen that there's no need to go full angsty about it. If they're concerned about privacy you could suggest attaching trellising to the boundary wall to bring it up to 2m. Cheap and easy, and isn't as imposing as blocks or a wooden fence.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5e/5b/4a/5e5b4af8282ac734b6cb87c2eb21ac34--lattice-wall-privacy-walls.jpg

You don't even have to go as elaborate as the image above - the neighbours next to me have their trellising simply screwed to the block wall.

Lumen

Structures are useful but limited by planning. There is no limit on what you can grow, as long as it doesn't cause damage to structures. Old people tend to like green things, so you could recruit your neighbours in designing the solution.

The gardening forum might offer plant based solutions (hemlock, if all else fails).

alias no.9

Get your landscaper to suggest some low maintenance planting to restore the privacy, it's for your benefit as well as theirs.

Paulw

alias no.9 wrote: »

Get your landscaper to suggest some low maintenance planting to restore the privacy, it's for your benefit as well as theirs.

Or, why not suggest that THEY grow something on their side that would give them more privacy? Maybe a nice wooden trellis on their side, with something that would grow in to it? A nice sweetpea? Or some other plants - https://dengarden.com/gardening/Top-10-Climbing-Plants-for-a-Small-Trellis

The issue is not 100% one sided. While you can help, they can help themselves too. Maybe you both put up some trellis and grow some plants?

pwurple

You don't need planning. No one is entitled to a view, and a patio isn't a building with a window.

Are you overlooking them from it or something? You own your garden, you are perfectly within your rights to enjoy it.

I'd tell them to build a bridge and get over it. But in nicer words. Suggest if they want more privacy, they install a hedge or a wall.

They sound like the next stage up from the NIMBY. You have met your local BANANA's. Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything.

The Diddakoi

Just a thought..
You say you have a nice view of the sea. Would they also have a view of the sea from their garden?
If they have, maybe they feel that they will lose that view when your patio is built, as they will feel like they are looking at you on your new patio, whereas before they would have been looking at the sea. Maybe a sea view was a selling point when they bought the house.

I know you have no right to protect your view, but if the above is the case, I could sympathise with them.

Cyrus

pwurple wrote: »

You don't need planning. No one is entitled to a view, and a patio isn't a building with a window.

Are you overlooking them from it or something? You own your garden, you are perfectly within your rights to enjoy it.

I'd tell them to build a bridge and get over it. But in nicer words. Suggest if they want more privacy, they install a hedge or a wall.

They sound like the next stage up from the NIMBY. You have met your local BANANA's. Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything.

its the opposite side of the garden to their fence, but they feel that if someone is standing on it they have less privacy than if it didnt exist, which is a fair point i suppose, but all you would see is the top of someones head, and its not my intention to stand there looking into their garden,

im happy to plant a few things that will help, however i dont want them moaning about the plants blocking light either.

i think its more they are there all day looking at the builders coming and going and its obivously a trouble to them, im not quite sure what they are after maybe they just want to get it off their chest.

Lumen

People hate change unless they are themselves the driver of it. It makes them feel powerless.

This is a problem mostly of psychology.

Cyrus

alf66 wrote: »

Just a thought..
You say you have a nice view of the sea. Would they also have a view of the sea from their garden?
If they have, maybe they feel that they will lose that view when your patio is built, as they will feel like they are looking at you on your new patio, whereas before they would have been looking at the sea. Maybe a sea view was a selling point when they bought the house.

I know you have no right to protect your view, but if the above is the case, I could sympathise with them.

no we are the first house in the terrace furthest away from the sea, they would be looking the opposite direction to see the sea from their garden.

also, as an aside, our view is better because of the slight elevation where the patio is.

but thats neither here no there

groovyg

You could plant a lleyandi tree - they'd have no problem with privacy then :pac:
This is the trouble with being retired and having nothing to do they need to get some hobbies. There is not really much you can do now, you need to be very assertive with them and tell them you don't need planning permission and you have paid for the work, if you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

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ED E

"Sorry, id paid the landscaper to do it before you moved in" and leave it at that.

Lumen

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This is how long running disputes start. A troublesome and determined neighbour can make your life hell.

You can always become more aggressive / assertive later. It's very difficult to wind things back once they escalate.

Everyone thinks they are themselves reasonable, because we are hard wired to value our own opinions highly.

Sam Kade

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You won't. Each time you bow down and take the unreasonable complaint, the next one will roll in quickly. Elderly people are the worst, they have nothing to do and tend to focus on stupid things to complain about.

Really, ah well you live and learn :rolleyes:

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Lumen

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What do you mean by "wrong"? Legally? Morally?

This is not Switzerland, we live in a very lightly regulated culture. Most people break the law with impunity. If you rely solely on law enforcement to regulate your neighbourly relations you will be disappointed.

For instance, they could plant a Lleylandii or play opera for 18 hours a day and the law would do nothing.

Gravelly

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You won't. Each time you bow down and take the unreasonable complaint, the next one will roll in quickly. Elderly people are the worst, they have nothing to do and tend to focus on stupid things to complain about.

This. I had a retired couple move in next to me. They complain about things no normal person would think of complaining about, including a complaint that one of the trees in our garden is a "foreign species" and shouldn't be allowed (hilarious since they are not Irish themselves), and when we had our driveway redone they complained the tarmac was too dark and clashed with theirs.
At first I played along, and took their complaints on board and tried to be nice. Eventually I realised that they were just @ssholes, and told them to f**k off. They don't speak to me anymore and that suits me fine. It's the only way with some people unfortunately. A friend in the council told me they ring several times a week to report somebody for some perceived misdemeanour, and they object to every planning application within a 10 mile radius. They also report any farmer that spreads slurry, and constantly report farmers for animal cruelty where none exists.

jimmycrackcorm

Cyrus wrote:

what steps can i take to appease them, some planting will help but will take them, any temporary fencing measures or something?

Give them contact details of B&Q so they can go buy some higher fencing for their side.

pwurple

Gravelly wrote: »

This. I had a retired couple move in next to me. They complain about things no normal person would think of complaining about, including a complaint that one of the trees in our garden is a "foreign species" and shouldn't be allowed (hilarious since they are not Irish themselves), and when we had our driveway redone they complained the tarmac was too dark and clashed with theirs.
At first I played along, and took their complaints on board and tried to be nice. Eventually I realised that they were just @ssholes, and told them to f**k off. They don't speak to me anymore and that suits me fine. It's the only way with some people unfortunately. A friend in the council told me they ring several times a week to report somebody for some perceived misdemeanour, and they object to every planning application within a 10 mile radius. They also report any farmer that spreads slurry, and constantly report farmers for animal cruelty where none exists.

A couple near me is like this as well. They object to every single application in the area. Never ever upheld, but they must just like spending their money on it. They are in a highly built up urban area, but any kind of normal noise like children playing, or traffic on a road, or wedding bells from the local church "disturbs their peace". I think they want to be in a bubble.

I had them in on top of me constantly for a while, because the petals from the flowers on one of our trees was blowing their direction and the occasional petal landed on their windows. I got a whole spiel on how horrific this was to endure. Nod nod nod, "Yes, I'll take a look at that, bye bye now",

flaneur

OP: I wouldn't worry about it, or even engage too much.

I had a situation in a previous house where we had an open (but low) fenced side entrance. It was quite wide, maybe 6 metres and one of our kitchen windows was facing out into it.

The house next door was being rented as a house share and they had converted the rooms so what was a kitchen was now a bedsit and the bedroom was facing my kitchen window.

Anyway one day on way in I get cornered by the guy who lived there telling me that it was "unreasonable" to have a light on in the kitchen at 2am. (With the blind drawn)

Initially I was apologing and explaining I was up late writing my thesis but then afterwards thought - why the hell doesn't he just get proper curtains / blackout blinds.

I told him to get curtains!

Then he caught me on the way in and went on a rant at me about how he'd ring my landlord (I owned the property). So I just walked off.

This was followed by how we were "looking in at him" while doing the dishes or preparing vegetables at the sink, which was under the window.

Anyway he apparently rang the City Council about it (I'm sure they told him blinds are available in many shops).

Similar weird stuff happened for months eg he told my other half that they shouldn't be staying at home all day and that it was illegal to work from home. He had seen them working on a laptop at the table.

He then rang the City Council and told them we were running a business from the house (we weren't but the odd time one of us might be at home reading paperwork, writing and so on) and that we had no planning (again I never heard anything from the council and maybe he was just lying).

Then he told me that my satellite dish was illegal and rang the council several times. It wasn't even visible as I hate the look of them and ensured it was placed at the rear of the house on the back of a chimney.

He complained that our cat was "breaking into his house" and rang the ISPCA several times about how we were "neglecting it". The cat was the picture or feline health and happiness!

Anyway eventually we moved!

Gravelly

pwurple wrote: »

A couple near me is like this as well. They object to every single application in the area. Never ever upheld, but they must just like spending their money on it. They are in a highly built up urban area, but any kind of normal noise like children playing, or traffic on a road, or wedding bells from the local church "disturbs their peace". I think they want to be in a bubble.

I had them in on top of me constantly for a while, because the petals from the flowers on one of our trees was blowing their direction and the occasional petal landed on their windows. I got a whole spiel on how horrific this was to endure. Nod nod nod, "Yes, I'll take a look at that, bye bye now",

Mine had a council guy out to investigate "rubbish burning in back garden" - turned out it was the steam from our clothes dryer......!

flaneur

Gravelly wrote: »

Mine had a council guy out to investigate "rubbish burning in back garden" - turned out it was the steam from our clothes dryer......!

Yup! This guy also did similar. He reported us for releasing "noxious odours" from the cooker hood!!? I'm not THAT bad a cook!!

Noxious = he could smell cooking food eg curry when he had his windows open and I was cooking. He seemed to have a go at me anytime I cooked anything spicy or made scones!

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roper1664

OP, I had a read of the PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS and I can't find anything prohibiting what you are doing, as this is a garden and not a structure. So, based on what you are saying, this seems reasonable but it definitely would be worth doing something in terms of privacy that would benefit you both (e.g. partial block of view to their house if applicable here).

Again, this is based on what you have described i.e. there would be an issue if you were building on a boundary or on a flat roof. e.g., from page 254: "The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden." Something like this would be subject to planning enforcement, particularly for a semi-detached or a terraced house.

As already mentioned by others, think about it from your neighbour's viewpoint and stay amicable.

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad%2C32879%2Cen.pdf

Gumbo

roper1664 wrote: »

OP, I had a read of the PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS and I can't find anything prohibiting what you are doing, as this is a garden and not a structure. So, based on what you are saying, this seems reasonable but it definitely would be worth doing something in terms of privacy that would benefit you both (e.g. partial block of view to their house if applicable here).

Again, this is based on what you have described i.e. there would be an issue if you were building on a boundary or on a flat roof. e.g., from page 254: "The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden." Something like this would be subject to planning enforcement, particularly for a semi-detached or a terraced house.

As already mentioned by others, think about it from your neighbour's viewpoint and stay amicable.

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad%2C32879%2Cen.pdf

But do not do anything on your side that could make you liable for a breach of planning.

For example, the max height of the boundary is 2m, so if you place a higher fence and they complain, it's you that gets the enforcement warning

Raising the garden(including decking area) is exempt up to about 1m up or down so there's no planning breach here in my opinion.