Off Duty Garda shoots man

MarcusP12

Says a lot about the mindset of some people and the respect they have for the gardai that, in the absence of the full fact of the situation, the assumption is that he should lose his job for carrying a gun and having to use it. I'd prefer to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise that he acted inappropriately. At the end of the day, he didn't <have> to get involved but obviously felt duty bound to do what he did for whatever reason at the time. I'd say there's plenty of people here who wouldn't stay on at work one minute beyond their official finish time let alone put their life in danger like this gard did when off duty, whatever the reason was.

As has been said already, we all know that there are problems within the garda force but the vast majority of gardai are decent people trying to do their job (which involves protecting us from the scum of society lest we forget) and they should have our respect on an individual basis, regardless of what you think of the higher management. There are bad apples in every profession.

Dyr

Back in the cowboy days a friend of mine who worker in a bar found a shooter under a seat, turned out it belonged to a detective who was pissed drunk and left it behind him

Anywhoo if this was part of the Conrad thing I reckon it would have been reported as such

Syphonax

Allinall wrote: »

100% factually incorrect.

...im open to correction of course....

RasTa

Maybe these garda need guns.

Gardaí believe the team of officers who attended the incident had their safety jeopardised because of the lack of an armed response unit in Sligo. The nearest armed response unit is based in Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, more than 42km away.

"The fact of the matter is, we don't have the resources a town the size of Sligo needs," a source said.

Travelers stabbing each other last night, armed garda outside the hospital

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/armed-garda-on-patrol-at-one-of-countrys-busiest-hospitals-amid-fear-of-feud-bloodbath-36060004.html

seamus

Syphonax wrote: »

...im open to correction of course....

Well you're incorrect in that an off-duty garda shouldn't be carrying a weapon. Many do, legally and for good reason.

You're also incorrect that off-duty Gardai are just normal citizens. They're not. They're legally Gardai 24/7 and empowered (and duty bound) to uphold the law at any time.

Any obligation to contact on-duty Gardai only applies in situations where the Garda can wait for assistance.

Which ultimately means that you're incorrect in your assertion that he should be dismissed from the forced and criminally charged, since on the face of it there is no basis for either such actions.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

If the guard was off-duty he shouldnt be carrying a gun and has no recourse to use it in force. Being off-duty means he is just a normal citizen and not a guard. Armed response units are specifically called to deal with armed crime and do not roam the streets like cops in America. He should have contacted on duty guards to deal with the crime and not involved himself. He should be should be thrown off the force for malpractice and even criminal charges should be brought against him.

Everything about your post is wrong, apart from the spelling perhaps. Actually, I'm docking you points for the use of guard instead of garda.

edit: bollox, you get no points, you made a mess of "Shouldn't" in your first sentence, and "should be should be" in your last.

begbysback

Bambi wrote: »

Back in the cowboy days a friend of mine who worker in a bar found a shooter under a seat, turned out it belonged to a detective who was pissed drunk and left it behind him

Anywhoo if this was part of the Conrad thing I reckon it would have been reported as such

Actually reminds me of one night during late 80's maybe early 90's when a drunk detective showed up on the door of a friend of mines father, slightly crooked guy, not a hardened criminal by any stretch - but it seems he outsmarted the detective in some situation and he wasn't too happy about this - so he shows up one night with a skinful and pulls out his gun making threats...

Ok it's most likely an exception but it could have ended nastily.

Syphonax

seamus wrote: »

Well you're incorrect in that an off-duty garda shouldn't be carrying a weapon. Many do, legally and for good reason.

You're also incorrect that off-duty Gardai are just normal citizens. They're not. They're legally Gardai 24/7 and empowered (and duty bound) to uphold the law at any time.

Any obligation to contact on-duty Gardai only applies in situations where the Garda can wait for assistance.

Which ultimately means that you're incorrect in your assertion that he should be dismissed from the forced and criminally charged, since on the face of it there is no basis for either such actions.

Thats toally avoiding my point, yes they can carry guns but this would have nothing to do with their job, it would be personal to them. Guards can affect arrests while off duty however SHOOTING someone is entirely a different matter than making an arrest and could likely warrant the guard arrested.

Syphonax

ThisRegard wrote: »

Everything about your post is wrong, apart from the spelling perhaps. Actually, I'm docking you points for the use of guard instead of garda.

edit: bollox, you get no points, you made a mess of "Shouldn't" in your first sentence, and "should be should be" in your last.

garbage nonsensical post. -10 points for pure baloney.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

Thats toally avoiding my point, yes they can carry guns but this would have nothing to do with their job, it would be personal to them. Guards can affect arrests while off duty however SHOOTING someone is entirely a different matter than making an arrest and could likely warrant the guard arrested.

The problem is you haven't actually made a point.

Sierra Oscar

Syphonax wrote: »

If the guard was off-duty he shouldnt be carrying a gun and has no recourse to use it in force. Being off-duty means he is just a normal citizen and not a guard.

Incorrect. All Gardaí maintain their statutory powers irrespective of whether they are on or off-duty.

They are bound to their regulations 24/7 once they become attested members and remain so until they leave the service. In fact, Gardaí can face disciplinary action for not intervening in a situation while off-duty.

Syphonax

Allinall wrote: »

100% factually incorrect.

...im still waiting...

Syphonax

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Incorrect. All Gardaí maintain their statutory powers irrespective of whether they are on or off-duty.

They are bound to their regulations 24/7 once they become attested members and remain so until they leave the service. In fact, Gardaí can face disciplinary action for not intervening in a situation while off-duty.

The courts might take another view.

seamus

Syphonax wrote: »

Thats toally avoiding my point, yes they can carry guns but this would have nothing to do with their job, it would be personal to them.

No, many Gardai carry their garda-issued firearm while off-duty, legally. They're not wandering around doing their shopping on a Saturday with a gun inside their jacket, but there are plenty of circumstances where they are off duty and in possession of their Garda weapon. Legally.

Sierra Oscar

Syphonax wrote: »

The courts might take another view.

It's specifically set out in legislation, so no, they won't take another view. In fact many people have been convicted by the courts after being arrested by off-duty Gardaí.

Syphonax

seamus wrote: »

No, many Gardai carry their garda-issued firearm while off-duty, legally. They're not wandering around doing their shopping on a Saturday with a gun inside their jacket, but there are plenty of circumstances where they are off duty and in possession of their Garda weapon. Legally.

Seems quite contradictory your posts, im sure certain cops do do their shopping with gun in toe. Are you following armed guards around the place to confirm your supposition ?

harr

There are 5 or 6 units within the guards that carry firearms and a lot of those are not based at any one station so it's necessary bring his/her gun home.
So a guard tackles 3 suspects and manages to take one down with a non fatal shot and people are calling for him to be fired, should be getting a medal in my opinion.
Maybe she should have given him a hug and asked if he wanted to have a chat about anything....

Syphonax

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's specifically set out in legislation, so no, they won't take another view. In fact many people have been convicted by the courts after being arrested by off-duty Gardaí.

Ah legislation, yes never interrupted by courts in a different way !!!! I already said guards can affect arrests, SHOOTING people though im sure its not as plain as you make it out ot be

seamus

Syphonax wrote: »

Seems quite contradictory your posts, im sure certain cops do do their shopping with gun in toe. Are you following armed guards around the place to confirm your supposition ?

Ah, I see you're just a spoofer and a timewaster. So you assert that it's illegal to carry off-duty, but you assert that they carry it while doing their shopping. And then accuse me of making things up.

Welcome to my ignore list.

XsApollo

We need more of this.
More armed units around the country and officers that can carry all the time.
If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.
Might make the scumbags think twice.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

im sure its not as plain as you make it out ot be

And yet you already have this guy thrown out of his job and being arrested.

Barry Badrinath

The worst thing about boards is the amount of people who have very little knowledge of a subject but bash the keyboard and convince themselves that they have.

George Sunsnow

Syphonax wrote: »

Seems quite contradictory your posts, im sure certain cops do do their shopping with gun in toe. Are you following armed guards around the place to confirm your supposition ?

The bottom of the barrel of your argument need cleaning?
Pardon the pun

Syphonax

seamus wrote: »

Ah, I see you're just a spoofer and a timewaster. So you assert that it's illegal to carry off-duty, but you assert that they carry it while doing their shopping. And then accuse me of making things up.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Why are you name calling me? is that really necessary?

You posts is not answering the questions I put to you, you're just going off on a tangent.

ohnonotgmail

Syphonax wrote: »

Ah legislation, yes never interrupted by courts in a different way !!!! I already said guards can affect arrests, SHOOTING people though im sure its not as plain as you make it out ot be

anything a garda can legally do on-duty they can legally do off-duty. If they are carrying an issued firearm off-duty they can use it as if they were on-duty. otherwise what would be the point of carrying it?

Captain Obvious

Syphonax wrote: »

Ah legislation, yes never interrupted by courts in a different way !!!! I already said guards can affect arrests, SHOOTING people though im sure its not as plain as you make it out ot be

You haven't yet said what you are basing any of your incorrect claims on.

Syphonax

George Sunsnow wrote: »

The bottom of the barrel of your argument need cleaning?
Pardon the pun

pfft the responses from so many 'knowledgeable' people on here is laughable.

begbysback

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

The worst thing about boards is the amount of people who have very little knowledge of a subject but bash the keyboard and convince themselves that they have.

Any facts to back this up?

RasTa

seamus wrote: »

No, many Gardai carry their garda-issued firearm while off-duty, legally. They're not wandering around doing their shopping on a Saturday with a gun inside their jacket, but there are plenty of circumstances where they are off duty and in possession of their Garda weapon. Legally.

Seems a bit pointless if they are not allowed use them and we have a separate armed response unit.

This is on the basis of the incident in Sligo where they claimed the unit was 42km's away.

Could they not call on a few detectives to go down armed and control the situation?

Syphonax

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

anything a garda can legally do on-duty they can legally do off-duty. If they are carrying an issued firearm off-duty they can use it as if they were on-duty. otherwise what would be the point of carrying it?

OK so shooting someone without any backup while not on the clock will leave the inevitable court case open to no ridicule, yeah right

Rushden

Syphonax wrote: »

Ah legislation, yes never interrupted by courts in a different way !!!! I already said guards can affect arrests, SHOOTING people though im sure its not as plain as you make it out ot be

With the way you phrase it you'd swear he walked up and just shot a random person, as if he was doing a hit on someone. I'd wait for more details but sounds like it was a shooting in the course of his duty. As others said there's numerous specialist units that have personal issue firearms that they carry off duty , if you did their job you would too

Captain Obvious

RasTa wrote: »

Seems a bit pointless if they are not allowed use them and we have a separate armed response unit.

This is on the basis of the incident in Sligo where they claimed the unit was 42km's away.

Could they not call on a few detectives to go down armed and control the situation?

Control how? By shooting people?

Wheeliebin30

If he killed a terrorist on his way to commit an act would the usual whingers still be giving out?

Syphonax

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

anything a garda can legally do on-duty they can legally do off-duty. If they are carrying an issued firearm off-duty they can use it as if they were on-duty. otherwise what would be the point of carrying it?

So armed guards are allowed to take the law into their own hands will not on duty??? hmmmm

Syphonax

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If he killed a terrorist on his way to commit an act would the usual whingers still be giving out?

Same rules apply, even if he killed mother Teresa.

ohnonotgmail

Syphonax wrote: »

OK so shooting someone without any backup while not on the clock will leave the inevitable court case open to no ridicule, yeah right

i can only presume that you are trolling. no other excuse for the shoite you are posting.

Captain Obvious

Syphonax wrote: »

So armed guards are allowed to take the law into their own hands will not on duty??? hmmmm

That's their job.

ThisRegard

Syphonax wrote: »

So armed guards are allowed to take the law into their own hands will not on duty??? hmmmm

Eh, armed Gardai ARE law!

Canis Lupus

Syphonax wrote: »

OK so shooting someone without any backup while not on the clock will leave the inevitable court case open to no ridicule, yeah right

What if it was just 1 minute after his shift ended?

Syphonax

Rushden wrote: »

With the way you phrase it you'd swear he walked up and just shot a random person, as if he was doing a hit on someone. I'd wait for more details but sounds like it was a shooting in the course of his duty. As others said there's numerous specialist units that have personal issue firearms that they carry off duty , if you did their job you would too

I havent phrased anything, ive little details of the incident, as do you. Cops are above reproach though yeah? and there is no way he would abuse his position and weapon, right?!

CeilingFly

RasTa wrote: »

What is he doing carrying a gun?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/investigation-launched-after-man-shot-in-the-shoulder-during-struggle-with-offduty-garda-36060612.html

Should be removed from force if so.

Assuming he shot a scumbag that had no problem threatening innocent, then that garda should be promoted

RasTa

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Control how? By shooting people?

Safety, the garda claimed their safety was jeopardised

begbysback

ThisRegard wrote: »

Eh, armed Gardai ARE law!

That would not be correct - their job is to enforce the law.

Syphonax

Canis Lupus wrote: »

What if it was just 1 minute after his shift ended?

An on duty cop vs off duty, I accept certain rules are applicable to them both but there are subtle differnces. If i worked in Mcdonalds im on duty, if im ordering a Big Mac im not

It not as black and white as some are assuming it is, if fact when it comes to courts an off duty cop is EXACTLY just that.

ThisRegard

begbysback wrote: »

That would not be correct - their job is to enforce the law.

Judge Dredd says otherwise.

ohnonotgmail

Syphonax wrote: »

An on duty cop vs off duty, I accept certain rules are applicable to them both but there are subtle differnces. If i worked in Mcdonalds im on duty, if im ordering a Big Mac im not

It not as black and white as some are assuming it is, if fact when it comes to courts an off duty cop is EXACTLY just that.

that is probably the worst false equivalence I have ever seen. Well done.

Captain Obvious

RasTa wrote: »

Safety, the garda claimed their safety was jeopardised

Again, how would the detectives have solved the issue other than by shooting people? The armed support units carry tasers and shields to deal with people armed with knives.

TheDoc

Syphonax wrote: »

If the guard was off-duty he shouldnt be carrying a gun and has no recourse to use it in force. Being off-duty means he is just a normal citizen and not a guard. Armed response units are specifically called to deal with armed crime and do not roam the streets like cops in America. He should have contacted on duty guards to deal with the crime and not involved himself. He should be should be thrown off the force for malpractice and even criminal charges should be brought against him.

Absolutely laughable post.

To be honest plenty of guards post here, someone will come along with actual facts about carry permits.

But to my knowledge, while we have obviously armed guards, and a new armed unit deployed a few years back, but also I believe that group got expanded recently and we also have the rapid response unit that is also firearm trained now.

Detectives go through firearm training and a number of regular Guardaí of rank will have gone through firearms training and a number of non specialist Guards can have specialist training and store firearms, typically handguns, in lockup/lockers in station.

Plenty of Guards will have firearms stored at home, in the same sort of parameters that any of us can apply for, obviously helping that they are police (and Guardaí provide the permits and inspections) so it's hardly difficult for serving or former serving to be permitted for firearms at home.

As the story reads, there is no indication the firearm was the Guards in question, so there is some serious conclusion jumping here, and while there is typically no carry permits in this country outside of military,police and foreign dignitary security, there is plenty of somewhat unofficial and accepted carrying instances for police and military.

But to be hones the fact the story doesnt even strictly claim the firearm was the Guards, or he was carrying it, makes it a bit funny people are jumping to "kick" him/her of the force. Should be commended quit frankly.

I doubt many of us on our day off or finished a shift would be hopping at the seems to get involved in our field of work. I don't stand in a shop at the weekend and when I see an IT issue roll my sleeves up and start helping.

So this sort of commitment and to be frank, bravery and courage considering the occupation involved should be commended, and those quick to call for a firing should have a serious look at themselves, cause it's embarrassing comments and carry on.

RasTa

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Again, how would the detectives have solved the issue other than by shooting people? The armed support units carry tasers and shields to deal with people armed with knives.

I think the threat of getting shot might have stopped them.

ThisRegard

RasTa wrote: »

I think the threat of getting shot might have stopped them.

Didn't stop the guy last night.