Whats the solution to cycle lanes being blocked?

AndrewJRenko

average_runner wrote: »

Be great if the gardai were out doing this and also could pull in a few of those cyclists in all black and no lights on their bikes in that clip!!

Congrats on managing to spot them in the difficult lighting conditions. You must have been eating your carrots.

CatFromHue wrote: »

In a lot of places where there is no cycle lane this happens and people are able to deal with it

Usually the vans and trucks deal with it by parking fully or partially on the path, causing danger and inconvenience for many people, especially people with disabilities.

magicbastarder

07Lapierre wrote: »

Yes..that is correct (I think )

yeah, that's my working assumption. which is a bad design; the stated hours of operation of the bus lane are fooling people into thinking it's OK to park there. it's a good wide road, so usually not a massive issue, but just a little bit thoughtless.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, that's my working assumption. which is a bad design; the stated hours of operation of the bus lane are fooling people into thinking it's OK to park there. it's a good wide road, so usually not a massive issue, but just a little bit thoughtless.

I think this Covers it:

26.—(1) When parking a driver shall ensure that the vehicle—

"(h) will not, in such a way as to interfere with the free movement of pedestrians along a footway, be wholly or partly on the footway or projecting over the footway, or (if it is not a pedal cycle) be wholly or partly on a cycle track ;"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

Beta Ray Bill

PaulieC wrote: »

So people who own small businesses and who work for larger businesses should be made come back into work during the night to take deliveries ? That doesn't seem too practical.

Fair point, you'd be talking about shift work then. It would definitely cost more to run a business in this manner.

cdaly_ wrote: »

So, if they're going to stop and obstruct traffic to look at their phone, why not stop in their own lane? Why take the opportunity to put a whole other lane of traffic to inconvenience/danger?

Eh because if you stopping you pull over to the left so as not to cause and obstruction? Isn't that driving 101?
Not trying to smart but if the pull over to the left then cars and bikes can overtake. if he stop in the middle of the Lane he's gonna hold up traffic for miles which will affect cyclists further back.

Dont get me wrong I agree he shouldnt stop there, but again.... Welcome to Dublin City.
This will behavior will never stop, ya best come to terms with it, cause there's d*ckheads everywhere!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yes of course, though pull over into a parking space which doesn't cause an obstruction or a hazard to other road users, and is also illegal to block a cycle lane...

This is in development:
http://www.thejournal.ie/cycle-lanes-dublin-2-3467614-Jun2017/

Good(ish) for cyclists, bad for Motorists, most of roads for this change are wide roads with 3/4 lanes or roads where cars part and right angles to the curb

The plan is to have the cars park parallel to the curb (reducing parking space by at least 50% (Probably 66%) Thereby increasing traffic congestion in the city centre. (Making it worse for everyone including cyclists).

Again, poor planning by DCC, cyclists thing they are getting a good deal with the above but the reality is we're not.

Plasid

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwj8wJWKsvDVAhXDLlAKHW0kBWUQxa8BCCQwAA&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA

Weepsie

grahambo wrote: »

The plan is to have the cars park parallel to the curb (reducing parking space by at least 50% (Probably 66%) Thereby increasing traffic congestion in the city centre. (Making it worse for everyone including cyclists).

Again, poor planning by DCC, cyclists thing they are getting a good deal with the above but the reality is we're not.

It's not poor planning. They are correctly trying to discourage journey by car to and from city centre.

Dublin is small. Hopefully more will realise this and look at the alternatives soon

It's also absurd that public space is used to store so much private property.

average_runner

Weepsie wrote: »

It's not poor planning. They are correctly trying to discourage journey by car to and from city centre.

Dublin is small. Hopefully more will realise this and look at the alternatives soon

It's also absurd that public space is used to store so much private property.

We need alternatives though. Yes we have it during the week with a regular bus service. But out of peak hours and weekend it's poor.


Also.with electric cars gaining popularity there be no need to block them from the city for pollution reasons.

Tenzor07

Great solution from the Russians for moving illegally parked cars!

Would certainly convince rogue motorists from blocking up the cycle lanes

Beta Ray Bill

Weepsie wrote: »

It's not poor planning. They are correctly trying to discourage journey by car to and from city centre.

Dublin is small. Hopefully more will realise this and look at the alternatives soon

It's also absurd that public space is used to store so much private property.

I disagree, If you've kids to collect after work or need to go somewhere after work or need to get two buses to to anywhere (IE Rathfarnham to Crumlin is two buses) you need to use a car, there is no choice... Believe me, I've tried everything.
You can't fit the kids on a Bike and bringing them on Public transport is to expensive.

A Car is the only solution, that must be why so many people sit in their car for hours each morning, they either are in love with their car or there is no alternative.

In previous jobs I cycled in a lot, made perfect sense. But circumstances have change in my life that means cycling is now rarely an option, It's public transport or Car.

The point is proven as in the summer months traffic around the city is a lot lighter, as soon as school starts back it's mayhem again.

average_runner wrote: »

We need alternatives though. Yes we have it during the week with a regular bus service. But out of peak hours and weekend it's poor.

Also.with electric cars gaining popularity there be no need to block them from the city for pollution reasons.

I think the Bus service is already reasonable, the problem is the cost if you have to take more than one bus or need to bring kids.

I also think Electric car incentives will be cut back in the years to come.
There's already people abusing the fast charging stations, People leaving their cars parked there "charging" all day.

Weepsie

I must be imagining the kids I see on busses with their parents in the morning all the time. I must have imagined being ferried about on busses when younger.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's complete BS to say say a car is the only way to do it. I see an awful lot of people everyday doing it.

At the end of the day, the nation has become lazy. Walking is too much of a chore for many now

Running a car is a massive expense, why is that not too expensive?

Beta Ray Bill

Weepsie wrote: »

I must be imagining the kids I see on busses with their parents in the morning all the time. I must have imagined being ferried about on busses when younger.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's complete BS to say say a car is the only way to do it. I see an awful lot of people everyday doing it.

I'd imagine it works for a few people, I saw one guy with a baby strapped to him on the Dart this morning, that was in the only kid I saw.
I suppose what it all comes down to is time/convenience. Most people it's not going to work for.

I'm in that bucket at the moment. I have to get a bus out to of work to collect my Son, then drive with him to my house (full M50 run J12 -> J1), then I've to do the same in reverse the next day to drop him off (That's only 2 days a week now) Bare in mind I've to bring his clothes, nappies and stuff, bottles, baby food, maybe a book or a Toy and his buggy. I'm sorry but full use of public transport is just not an option here.

Weepsie wrote: »

At the end of the day, the nation has become lazy. Walking is too much of a chore for many now

Completely agree with you. There is an awful lot of lazy people out there.

Weepsie wrote: »

Running a car is a massive expense, why is that not too expensive?

Yep, completely agree with you, cost of running a car in this country is a rip of.
But again, this is Ireland. Not having a car is almost like not having a phone.

Also if people are being force to pay so much to run a can the Government should be ensuring that people are able to use them effectively.

Just to be clear I'm not an advocate of cars, If I didn't have a kid I wouldn't have a car, I've my bikes and that's enough for me.

buffalo

grahambo wrote: »

Rathfarnham to Crumlin

Does the 17 not serve that route any more?

Beta Ray Bill

buffalo wrote: »

Does the 17 not serve that route any more?

possibly

I'm "back arse" of Rathfarnham, Taylors Lane.

buffalo

average_runner wrote: »

Also.with electric cars gaining popularity there be no need to block them from the city for pollution reasons.

What about congestion and quality of life reasons? Which is why we're cutting down on car traffic in the city centre at present afaics - I haven't heard a single official person mention anything about pollution in relation to the quays reconfiguration for example.

paul mountainbike

"Running a car is a massive expense, why is that not too expensive?"

Agree but if you live down country n work up country a car is the only choice ,as also shifts and location that no public transport will ever come near to .

Even looked at the train the other day as had to attend training in Naas from Mulinavat ,but times were way out . would mean late arrival and ridiculous late home . Just to save on car use .

Public Transport ???????

Tenzor07

Posts getting off topic here.... The basic thing is that the very poor cycle infrastructure we have in Dublin is being blocked by private cars, commercial deliveries, construction traffic, etc!

If you build a direct, segregated(as much as possible), well marked, with priority traffic signals, secure bike parking cycle lane network then people will ditch the cars, use cargo bikes also for shopping/kid transport, and you'll see less people on racing bikes in lycra, more on dutch style bikes in regular clothing..

Of course the above will have to go hand in hand with severe penalties for bike thieves, 3 points/€80 for parking in on cycle paths/lanes, Minimum passing distance law with camera evidence sufficient for prosecutions...

iamtony

07Lapierre wrote: »

Yes..that is correct (I think )

A solid white line Does not mean your not allowed in it, it means during normal traffic, your not allowed CROSS a solid white line. Neither a car or bike. It's the same as a solid white bus lane or line in the centre of the road. Your only allowed cross it when there is a slow moving obstacle or someone loading or a Taxi/bus picking up(which they are of course allowed to do as they are loading passengers and cases sometimes).

magicbastarder

The Rules of the Road state: “No vehicle (other than a motorised wheelchair) may cross into or over a mandatory cycle track unless the driver is entering or leaving a place or a side road.” A mandatory cycle track is the legal name for a cycle lane or cycle path which is marked with a solid white line.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/05/11/rsa-cycle-lane-advert/

iamtony

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2015/05/11/rsa-cycle-lane-advert/

Asked if the RSA had given advice that there is a low chance of prosecution for driving into a cycle track, Brian Farrell, communications manager at the RSA, said: “That is correct… our legal advice that that unless the taxi is stopped for an extended period and causing an obstruction it is difficult to see how any prosecution could arise.”

TheChizler

iamtony wrote: »

A solid white line Does not mean your not allowed in it, it means during normal traffic, your not allowed CROSS a solid white line. Neither a car or bike. It's the same as a solid white bus lane or line in the centre of the road. Your only allowed cross it when there is a slow moving obstacle or someone loading or a Taxi/bus picking up(which they are of course allowed to do as they are loading passengers and cases sometimes).

The solid white bus line actually has a different legal name and different rules to the continuous white line in the middle of the road. There's no rule saying you shouldn't cross it, only shouldn't be in the lane during bus lane hours.

07Lapierre

iamtony wrote: »

A solid white line Does not mean your not allowed in it, it means during normal traffic, your not allowed CROSS a solid white line. Neither a car or bike. It's the same as a solid white bus lane or line in the centre of the road. Your only allowed cross it when there is a slow moving obstacle or someone loading or a Taxi/bus picking up(which they are of course allowed to do as they are loading passengers and cases sometimes).

The Question i was answering referred to cars parking on a cycle track. A taxi stopping to pickup passengers, slow moving obstacles etc. are different.

iamtony

I get what your saying but it's obvious that Taxis need to stop on the side of a road and I'm not sure that article is telling the whole story as it doesn't go into(from a quick glance) any exceptions built into the legislation like loading or unloading.
People on both sided just need to use common sense and not following the law to the letter.

iamtony

TheChizler wrote: »

The solid white bus line actually has a different legal name and different rules to the continuous white line in the middle of the road. There's no rule saying you shouldn't cross it, only shouldn't be in the lane during bus lane hours.

Then why do they make it a dotted white line when there is a left turn that people must cross it?
Genuine question I'm not 100%

magicbastarder

iamtony wrote: »

People on both sided just need to use common sense and not following the law to the letter.

i think that's the bleedin' problem.

iamtony

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think that's the bleedin' problem.

Ha. It's obvious that if in the case of a Taxi driver had to go to court for stopping in a bike lane to pick up and earn a living without cutting a cyclist off and giving the cyclist enough time to avoid the obstacle he has just created, that a judge would use common sense and throw the case out.
That's what I'm saying some cyclists aren't using common sense in this thread.

magicbastarder

that might be fine on some less busy roads. what about rathmines, for example? multiple taxis pulling in, in a busy urban environment, requiring the cyclist to repeatedly pull out of the cycle lane which is supposedly there for their benefit - you can see why many non-cyclists are going to remain non-cyclists.

TheChizler

iamtony wrote: »

Then why do they make it a dotted white line when there is a left turn that people must cross it?
Genuine question I'm not 100%

No idea. Presumably either the people painting the lines don't fully understand the law behind them, or if they painted the line solid at crossings people would never cross since they don't understand the law. Maybe I'm wrong but I think my logic is sound!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83857254&postcount=35

iamtony

magicbastarder wrote: »

that might be fine on some less busy roads. what about rathmines, for example? multiple taxis pulling in, in a busy urban environment, requiring the cyclist to repeatedly pull out of the cycle lane which is supposedly there for their benefit - you can see why many non-cyclists are going to remain non-cyclists.

I would say in rathmines the pedestrians should go to the Taxi rank to get in a Taxi but like I said if due care and attention is used in dropping a passenger, particularly an elderly passenger, on the side of the road and a bike has to make an overtaking manoeuvre similar to the one they would have to make at a bus stop then it's not an issue.
The issue is more bad driving practices and overtaking cyclists and then stopping in front of them
Personally as a Taxi driver(and a cyclist) when someone puts there hand up after I just overtook a cyclist I will stop in my lane and allow the cyclist past me on the inside before I pull in, but I will pull in regardless of the cycle path. Considering they are very common in Dublin I don't see any alternative. So unless they start making dedicated cycle lanes off road there really isn't much anyone can do.
Life in a bus lane for anyone using it is constantly about repeatedly pulling out of it. I have to do it to overtake buses all day long and overtake cyclist which requires crossing lanes to leave the 1-1.5mtrs required.

iamtony

It's a very busy old city with roads that don't accommodate for smooth travel for anyone. It's a stop start and constantly overtaking environment for everyone and I don't see why cyclists don't think this should apply to them.

magicbastarder

them why maintain the pretence of cycle lanes which we're told is a legal requirement for us to use?