General gaming discussion

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616013#Comment_119616013

Man, don't start that again 🤣

pixelburp

So is "BotW has map markers?" the new "Atari Jaguar" Boards' gaming in-joke? 😄

Mr Crispy

@Retr0gamer - dunno if this kind of thing would interest you - "a 200+ page compilation of datamined Ace Combat 7 cut content, including the assassin's identity".

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/xf70tx/a_200_page_compilation_of_datamined_ace_combat_7/

Penn

Started Inscryption last night. Very addictive, creepy, frustrating, but enjoyable, all at the same time. Still trying to fumble my way through it, and guessing it's a game where you're just going to fail a bunch of times until things start clicking into place, especially since they keep introducing new boons or items after deaths. Nearly made it to the third boss and had a great deck, but since then the cards are just not falling in my favour.

Still though, very interesting game.

Markitron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616013#Comment_119616013

This is some Hellraiser-level of sado masochism right here

Mr.Saturn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625460#Comment_119625460

I hope there's no weapons and it's a full pivot to survival sim full of map-markers that don't exist.

Retr0gamer

Sony putting consumers first again:

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1570826219196944385?t=mY2wI2UatT6tyv-F5Tqm6g&s=19

Potential-Monke

Kinda expected it tbh, but it's still crappy. Saying that, there's only a few games I'd play again if they got PSVR2 support. Fairly crap for those who are really into VR though. The horrible locomotion controls for VR1 was what put me off most games, so I didn't spend too much. Beat Games will be delighted, they can charge for all the same stuff again. Seriously doubt they'll do a free PSVR2 version. Would have tried Saints and Sinners again, maybe.

Would there be an actual case there, regarding the comment that it's newer tech and want to concentrate on next gen only? I don't know enough tbh. Is it completely different architecture or what?

(queue someone saying I'm defending it simply because I'm not losing my sh!t over it)

Retr0gamer

I imagine with Sony's resources it would be very easy to add in a api to translate motion to the inputs that psvr1 expects. I mean that's how it works on PC. It's really just greed.

Potential-Monke

Fair enough. Plenty of that going around lately.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625157#Comment_119625157

Beat Act 1 and started Act 2.

This game is absolutely twisting my melon.... What the absolute f*ck is going on?!

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628137#Comment_119628137

Haven't listened to the interview, but has it been confirmed that the games won't be playable, or that it's up to the devs to patch in compatibility in an update to make them playable?

It's undoubtedly another sh*tty move either way. Not even just from a consumer point of view, but there are so many games already out for PSVR which could be huge selling points for PSVR2 for those who hadn't bought the PSVR. They're blocking the existing back catalogue of games which could tip the scales for some people.

Mr Crispy

Any of you cats going to try the demo for Team Ninja's Wo Long? It's not available on PC (PS5 and XBSX only), so I'm relying on some of you to report back. 😅

Potential-Monke

Having the same conversation with one of the lads via messages, he heavily invested in the first one so is fairly miffed and says he's not going to get PSVR2. But I know he will eventually. It's probably gonna divide the already existing fanbase, but once they confirm HL: Alyx as a release game it'll all disappear! :P

Similar to BC on the PS5, I'm not one who ever really wanted it. I mean, it's great to have the option, but I wouldn't have traded in the PS4 Pro if I couldn't play the games on PS5. People new to PSVR likely won't be bothered by games developed for inferior tech and will want the new stuff, which simply by the inclusion of thumbsticks in the controllers will make it far better.

Even going back through my VR library, not much I would like to play again, and those that I would I have completed already so nothing much to gain from it. I don't think Sony care though. And still, more detail to come out. Re: the interview, he mentions the lack of support at 29:12. Straight up saying they're not compatible.

Penn

From a quick read, it seems the issue is that the first PSVR was based on light-tracking via camera facing towards you, whereas the PSVR2 uses cameras on the headset pointing outwards as tracking/movement. It also appears it'll be easier for devs to port their games from Oculus/Quest to VR2 than it was for the VR1.

So the issue appears to be the PSVR hardware. Again, hopefully devs might be able to update existing games to work on PSVR2. Sony doing a p*ss-poor job of explaining it though. I listened to a snippet of the interview there and the reason given was that they're delivering a next-gen experience and the new controlers have haptics and adaptive triggers. Christ, just say it's a hardware issue...

Potential-Monke

Going on that, which I understand is all hearsay at the moment until someone brings out a deep dive into the differences between the 2 systems, which won't come out for a while yet because 2 is still in development... *breathe* would that be a Sony issue or a dev issue? Again, I don't know enough to know, but is it a case of every game would require dev input rather than Sony input, or what way does/would it work?

For someone without knowledge like myself, saying that the difference in the tech is the reason kinda makes sense to me, and Sony have a track record of not wanting to do things they don't deem profitable (which, from a company point of view makes sense) makes it make even more sense.

Theyve left the majority of their gamers behind already with VR1. No DVD slot? No FIFA? Forget it.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629256#Comment_119629256

Its basically a Sony issue that they are making out to be a dev issue. Instead of making a api that translates psvr2 inputs into psvr1 inputs they are putting it all on devs to do this and update their games. It's just Sony being cheap bastards really and don't want to invest in the development and QA of it.

recyclops

Ah ffs after playing RE4 on my bros oculus I was waiting to see price etc for psvr2 and now the entire psvr catalogue is unaccessible.

Plan was to play old psvr games reasonably cheap to get value out of the system. Very annoying.

johnny_ultimate

It’s frustrating and annoying, but more complicated than just Sony being greedy again (although I’m sure that’s a minor factor). You are talking fundamentally different technology here. Take Astrobot - a game that works largely by the PS Camera tracking the Dualshock 4 controller lightbar. That’s simply not possible to emulate on PSVR2: it’s fundamentally different tech. Even if it did somehow work, the controller graphic would be confusing and not user friendly (a cardinal sin in VR particularly… and potentially nausea-inducing). You can’t just trick PSVR2 into tracking a DualShock 4.

The next option would be using an adapter to connect a PS Camera to the PS5 (similar to how you hook up PSVR1 to the PS5)… that’s not only clunky, but wouldn’t work anyway as the camera can’t track PSVR2 without the light PSVR1 used for tracking.

What Sony should be encouraging and funding is developers to make new PS5 native apps for their VR games, because simply patching the games with a backwards compatibility layer is not going to work… in the rare cases it did, it would still make an unsatisfying user experience. It’s not a small task either, as while it’d be easy to port over something like Beat Saber which has versions based on modern headset tracking, others would require the technology of the games to be fundamentally rebuilt.

Good thread about it here, noting that PC support would be a good way to counter the disappointment of No backwards compatibility while acknowledging this is all a very messy issue with no easy fix.

https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1571036137283813379?s=46&t=OkABU7EkMgpkSO5BJD-3VQ

Retr0gamer

I'm still not 100 percent convinced by that. Sure if the move controller shows up in game it's a bit of a disconnect but I'm sure it's a small price to pay for backwards compatibility.

As for the lightbar it's not that big an issue. It can still be emulated with a workaround as really all the game wants are orientation coordinates. Just bypass the lightbar stuff, do some maths with the new tracking figures and feed them into the game. At the end of the day the end result of tracking are just coordinate information.

There's some non significant development work there and a massive amount of QA to test backward compatibility with titles which costs money. That's the real reason because it's far from impossible.

At least it does look like they are letting devs update games and I hope they don't start charging for these again as native ps5 apps.

johnny_ultimate

I dunno, PSVR1 fundamentally relied on light - both the headset and controller (Move and DS4) - for tracking so I think that would be a major technical and practical barrier from the off. Given the technology I’d be amazed and impressed if there was any system level workaround that wouldn’t create some major level of jank.

I don’t think it’s necessarily impossible to support some version of backwards compatibility (although with something like Astrobot it probably is impossible without some Frankenstein’s Monster of hybrid setup) but it is both costly and non-trivial to implement and would likely need at a bare minimum significant title updates and development work across every title. At that stage, you’re better off just encouraging (and paying) devs to make a native PSVR2 version of their game anyway to take advantage of the generational leap.

Whether Sony will let devs offer those upgrades for free is another question entirely! The margins on VR are tight at the best of times of course, hence why Sony should be proactive and offer update funds to developers.

Varik

The api is just relaying 3 coordinate values and 3 rotational ones, the game won't care where they're coming from. The new controller don't seem to be missing anything they'd need and again it's just the coordinates and orientation.

I can use my PSVR to play PC VR games they don't care.

Retr0gamer

As just said all you need is a wrapper to trick the game into thinking it's activating the light bar and then feed the game the coordinate data.

There's literally homebrew drivers for the psvr on PC that do this kind of stuff to emulate other pc VR tech. It's far from impossible. Just a small bit of coding and a lot of QA.

Grumpypants

I wonder are they unsupported as in it might work but they won't sell it as back compatible. Or will you get an error message blocking it from working completely.

McFly85

I don’t think it’s that outrageous to not have BC with PSVR1. I think it falls very much into the nice to have category, but not an essential piece of functionality - 2 seems to have a fundamentally different approach and if they felt they needed BC out of the box it might have limited their scope.

Sony are generally known for having excellent tool support for devs, and I’m sure devs would like their current games available for purchase on PSVR2 will as little hassle as possible so I expect to see a lot of them ported over.

However, if that happens and they charge extra for the PSVR2 ports of games you already own, that will be a dick move.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630724#Comment_119630724

Well the problem is you need that coordinate data in the first place. As mentioned, Astrobot is built around a camera tracking the lightbar on the DualShock 4, which it then uses for things like aiming. That data simply won’t be available in the PSVR2 since the camera won’t be able to see the lightbar. Hence why I think you’re at per title updates to get at least some of these games working as opposed to an overall wrapper. If there’s a way to get the PSVR2 to confidently track a Dualsense, that’s great - but again I’d imagine a patch is needed to facilitate that.

PC is an open platform where multiple VR techs are supported either natively by the games or via community updates. PSVR1 games exist in a closed platform, designed and programmed solely to function with one very particular hardware setup. I can see why many games won’t function properly without going in and rewriting the code and maybe even the game logic they’re built on.

And just to reiterate: I think Sony should be doing absolutely everything in their power to get PSVR1 games on PSVR2, and ensure that’s the case at no financial risk to developers and no cost to people who already bought the games. I can see why simple, system-level backwards compatibility may not be a goer, but in that case native upgrades for a vast majority of PSVR1 games is the minimum they should invest in.

Markitron

I'm probably going to get one (unless the price is outrageous) cos I really love the Quest 2 and would like a higher end version, but **** me it would be such an easier sell if this thing worked with PC. I can't really see a downside for anyone either, but Sony are getting as bad as Nintendo lately for not giving people what they want for no discernable reason whatsoever.

johnny_ultimate

The studio behind Devil Daggers just stealth dropped their follow up and from the trailer it looks like it might be the most visceral, overwhelming video game ever made? Some trippy, demented mix of DD, Rez and Thumper?

Looks like an instant buy to me but playing whatever the hell this is before bed seems like an unwise decision 👀

https://youtu.be/ScglDSi9KUs

Potential-Monke

I'm surely not the only one thinking that looks like a really bad PS1 tech demo... FishEye Lens: the Game.