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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 28154
I'm not fan of the 'game as service' model, but I'm always left scratching my head a bit when something like God of War is hailed as some kind of saviour of the industry. It's a decent game for sure, but personally I'm never really short on single player games to play through that are absent of any micro-transactiony bull****. It's been years since I've played a big AAA game where I felt like I was being nickle-and-dimed. True, I skip a lot of the egregious offenders from EA, Warner Bros and the like (more from being not interested in most blockbusters, although that certainly helps when it comes to following through on the moral objections
), but even then I still think we're in a pretty good place. I mean, look at the Switch's output last year alone, with its astounding selection of great single-player games. If games like GoW seem in any way rare, I'd also put forward that that's a result of games of that scale and expense now taking years to craft and polish. AAA development is only growing more complex, after all.
Mid-tier games haven't gone away. The recent success of Yakuza 0, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Hellblade, Dishonored, Divinity Original Sin, X-Com, Ni-Oh etc.... shows there's still very much a market for games somewhere between 'indie darling' and 'AAA blockbuster'. If recent sales successes are anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if we see even more of these types of games being released given their obvious commercial appeal when they're done well.
The generalisation of indie games that "look like SNES reissues" is also deeply unfair, and IMO completely fails to capture the diversity of the indie scene at the moment. Are there lots of pixel art platformers? Sure, although I'm not complaining in cases where they're as good as something like Celeste. But then you have games - and this is just keeping to the last 12 months or so - like Gorogoa, Hellblade, Ghost of a Tale, Echo, Nex Machina, Opus Magnum, Edith Finch, The Sexy Brutale, Cuphead, Snake Pass, Spy Party, Thumper... these are just some of the bigger name ones, and frankly the list could go on and on with the likes of itch.io experiments. There are games of all sorts of aesthetic approaches, with all sorts of mechanics and gameplay styles, and many that are artistically far more accomplished and ambitious than even the golden age of mid-tier gaming. Indie gaming is in rude health, if perhaps suffering from the flood of **** on Steam. Still, even just the occasional check in with some of the more enthusiast publications will offer a near endless supply of interesting titles to check out.0 -
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johnny_ultimate wrote:I'm not fan of the 'game as service' model, but I'm always left scratching my head a bit when something like God of War is hailed as some kind of saviour of the industry. It's a decent game for sure, but personally I'm never really short on single player games to play through that are absent of any micro-transactiony bull****. It's been years since I've played a big AAA game where I felt like I was being nickle-and-dimed. True, I skip a lot of the egregious offenders from EA, Warner Bros and the like (more from being not interested in most blockbusters, although that certainly helps when it comes to following through on the moral objections ), but even then I still think we're in a pretty good place. I mean, look at the Switch's output last year alone, with its astounding selection of great single-player games. If games like GoW seem in any way rare, I'd also put forward that that's a result of games of that scale and expense now taking years to craft and polish. AAA development is only growing more complex, after all.
Mid-tier games haven't gone away. The recent success of Yakuza 0, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Hellblade, Dishonored, Divinity Original Sin, X-Com, Ni-Oh etc.... shows there's still very much a market for games somewhere between 'indie darling' and 'AAA blockbuster'. If recent sales successes are anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if we see even more of these types of games being released given their obvious commercial appeal when they're done well.
It's more that a big company was willing to throw a lot of money to create a AAA single player game that took 5 years to make & in the end made their money back.
They didn't take a chance to throw in microtransactions for the sake of making back money or talk about season passes.
Sony have a pretty clever grasp of the what the current market is by releasing stuff like God Of War & Horizon earlier in the year when it's quiet for multi platform games so they stood out more whereas the likes of Dishonored 2 or Wolfenstein 2 didn't perform as well.
I think what Sony, Nintendo & others put out compared to what EA, Activision or Ubisoft put out reflects badly on the latter who claim games are so expensive to make yet release stuff as lazy as Destiny 2, Battlefront 2 or <insert Ubisoft open world simulator 2018>.
Not being a fanboy either but Microsoft have mishandled their first party games too they killed Fable trying to make it into something it never was, Crackdown is still up in the air & they cancelled Scalebound too so they are missing out on this market at the minute.
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Join Date:Posts: 50580
Potential-Monke wrote: »I've no doubt they're all in it for the money, but the video of Cory Barlog reading the reviews for the first time really showed that he cared about how the game would be received. Yeah, he knew it had to make money, but that was a given considering it was the first GoW made for the PS4 it would sell well anyway. But the reaction by Corey, to me, showed that he genuinely put everything into it and was genuinely blown away by the positive feedback.
Cory Balrog is the creative director so of course he was emotionally attached to a project he put 5 years into.
However to say it was a totally passion that sold the project is to ignore the shareholders and stakeholders inbolted at Sony. Cory is lucky he works at Sony who have traditionally used their first parties to flesh out gaps in their consoles line up. The decision to green light gid of war was down to how much a big exclusive would sell more Sony consoles and give it a more attractive line up. If you were working for EA you would be selling yourself to different stakeholders that want as much money out of a multimillion dollar investment and that would mean loot boxes and micro transactions for a massive game as a service.
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 28154
It was a terrible generalisation by me. I think I was trying to convey my dissatisfaction at the explosion of indie games. I've played many and there are few which I consider a worthwhile investment of my time. I think a lot of them try to do something new or different, but so often it becomes more of a novelty than an enjoyable game.
No worries, it's just a pet peeve of mine when they're all dismissed as 2D platformers - happens regularly enough to be a pet peeve! Indie games are hugely diverse and encompass almost every sort of style, genre, approach, length, depth... I really just have never been able to see how any given player couldn't find plenty of indie games to suit their individual taste
Take Firewatch. A game that was visually gorgeous, different from other games since it fell into it's own genre - more of an experience. But after the wow factor had faded, I was bored. Do I appreciate the work that went into it? Yes. I also appreciate the developers vision to do something different; to tell a story in a way that differs from most games. But was it fun? Not really. The story was mediocre. A game like Firewatch needs an exciting story to give it the "can't put it down" factor.
I'm probably in a minority here. I know critics loved it, but it just did not do much for me. I've played Undertale, Golf Story, Papers Please, Oxenfree, Gorogoa, Brothers,... I'd lump them all into a similar category. After the initial interest of a new mechanic or quirky story, the appeal fades out. I can put hours into aimlessly walking around Skyrim, collecting stars in Super Mario Odyssey, ranking up in Overwatch, but I can't bring myself to spend solid time playing 90% of the indie games I buy.
We probably have a fundamental philosophical difference here, and that's good and healthy Personally, I find myself very frustrated by how so many games are what I'd describe as 'distraction-ware' - big, long, time-consuming experiences that don't really do a whole lot with the time they demand. Like I'm playing God of War at the moment, and while there's plenty of good stuff in there, I feel it's frustratingly padded out. I can easily get distracted and lose a few hours exploring paths off the main hub... but while I may emerge with new loot, I never feel like the game has properly justified the time with new ideas or concepts. Sometimes, sure, but in GoW relatively rarely - I encountered one spectacular section last night that introduced a significant new mechanic, and was left wondering why I hadn't had more of them in the hours I've had with the game!
This isn't to say I don't like getting lost in a big game too - games such as Zelda BotW, The Witness or Mario Odyssey grabbed me for hours on end, and it felt rewarding. Crucially, I think they offer legitimately new ideas or complications for a long time, whereas lots of games - if not most of them! - are padded out with mindless busywork. Heck, Ubisoft has made its name with time-consuming chunks of mindless busywork! Having fun is welcome, but a game proving moderately entertaining and a decent time waster isn't what sets the heart or brain racing for me. Many of my favourite books and films would not warrant the description 'fun' whatsoever, and I like it when games can rise above that as well.
It's one of the reasons why I particularly appreciate shorter games that communicate what they do without sticking around. To me, a sharp, to-the-point piece of work like Inside is considerably more effective than even some of the better AAA stories (something like The Last of Us) because it barely wastes a moment - and it amazes me that that's such a rare quality. I think Firewatch is pretty good rather than great and hardly the pinnacle of the form (that's Naissance, btw), but again in its extremely focused form I still think it tells its story in a much clearer way than God of War, even when GoW has some very strong moments. Hell, it's why standalone stories in The Witcher 3 are often considerably more memorable than the overarching stuff - they're the good stuff without the fat in between.
I mean, a short game isn't necessarily better than a longer one, and a wide variety of different approaches suit a wide variety of different games. I've played short games that feel frustrating and underrealised; I've played games where I could easily see myself losing hours (if I had the time) due to the brilliance and versatility of the mechanics. But video games waste sh!tloads of our time as a matter of course, and personally I kinda like it when they don't 0 -
J. Marston wrote: »Playing Yakuza 0. It's worrying how much I enjoy the violence in it.
It's so brutal and over the top.
Yupp I love it! Also i love how angrily they say everyone's name KIIRRRYYUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!
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kunst nugget wrote: »What was the agenda
Oh just the usual It's-time-for-games-to-grow-up agenda meaning its time for games to become more like art house films rather than problematic murder simulators for straight white men.
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Join Date:Posts: 10221
Oh just the usual It's-time-for-games-to-grow-up agenda meaning its time for games to become more like art house films rather than problematic murder simulators for straight white men.
Perhaps they loved it not because it pushed their agenda, but because they thought that it was really good?
I mean, it is really good, at least in my opinion, and I don't give a ***** if games are art or not. Am I really pushing an agenda just because I like something you don't?0 -
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Oh just the usual It's-time-for-games-to-grow-up agenda meaning its time for games to become more like art house films rather than problematic murder simulators for straight white men.
Or maybe they liked the games and found something refreshing in them compared to the usual fare they'd normally be expected to review. I didn't like Gone Home, to me it didn't add up to enough to make it a worthwhile experience but I really enjoyed Firewatch and I absolutely adored Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. That's not to say that I could spend the rest of my days playing walking simulators but I do like to mix up what I'm playing in terms of trying out different genres.
If I was to play the same type of game over and over, I'd be unbelievably bored and I can't think of any game that would make me want to pump a hundred hours into finding all the collectibles on a map - I know it appeals to completionist in people but I'd rather watch paint dry than engage in that type of repetitive gameplay.
I like games that do something smart with their gameplay or with their story but I also like games that let me switch my brain off and just pound away at them. There's plenty of room for both types of game and if there's a game that has a lesbian character or a black protagonist, I'm not going to feel victimised by game developers for that choice because I'm a straight, white male. I can understand why unusual games might hold more appeal to a game reviewer because it's more likely to stand out against the backdrop of the usual fetch-quest, open-world blockbuster games.0 -
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