General gaming discussion

CatInABox

Good news on the Backward Compatibility and the SSD, but the rest has a bunch of caveats, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Ray tracing support is great, but I can't imagine any console built in the next few years being able to handle the current versions of ray tracing, it's just too difficult to process. It's possible that they'll have some kind of shortcut to do it, like the way the PS4 Pro uses checkerboarding to get a "fauxK" image. (Just FYI, not complaining about it, the image quality on PS4 Pro is near indistinguishable from Xbox One X in motion, and wish it was an option in more Xbox One X games to boost framerate)

The 8K support thing is also great, but I'd find it hard to believe that it'll be native, or that it'll be on all games. The predicted leap in processing power just isn't there.



Also interesting that they're releasing this info on the day that Microsoft are rumoured to be announcing the new all digital Xbox One, and combined Game Pass and Live service. Talk about keeping Microsoft under their heel. Competition is just feckin great.

Retr0gamer

Perhaps Sony could develop a method of doing ray tracing at quarter resolution with a very advanced checkerboard or AI checkerboard denoising process?

I doubt games will be full ray traced renders, even PC games aren't there yet. Some systems like shadows, reflections or global illumination might be handled by it.

Penn

CatInABox

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Perhaps Sony could develop a method of doing ray tracing at quarter resolution with a very advanced checkerboard or AI checkerboard denoising process?

I doubt games will be full ray traced renders, even PC games aren't there yet. Some systems like shadows, reflections or global illumination might be handled by it.

Yeah, I'm thinking that it's along these lines. They don't have to get it good enough to satisfy those that are building their own high powered PCs, they just have to get it good enough to satisfy those that are already gaming on a console.

wotzgoingon

Personally that demo above of ray tracing looks unrealistic to real life. Completely overboard on reflections. As if everything is polished twice daily with a rotary brush and wax.

Mickeroo

Ray Bloody Tracing.

K.O.Kiki

CatInABox wrote: »

The 8K support thing is also great, but I'd find it hard to believe that it'll be native, or that it'll be on all games. The predicted leap in processing power just isn't there.

I can guarantee that there will be close-to-zero games with 8K.

It's literally 16x more pixels than 1080p, which would probably take 2 generations of GPU tech to bridge.

Penn wrote: »

Mr Crispy

Ray tracing can be used for audio too. So it might be part of their 3D audio solution.

Cordell

Varik wrote: »

Caustic Graphics/Imagination Tech have a google.

That's in the mobile GPU space.

Retr0gamer

Yeah I can see the first batch of ray traced games going overboard on reflections. Same thing as with the ugly quake 2 era coloured lighting, lens flare and the start of last gen when devs got trigger happy with shaders and every surface had over the top specular highlights and everything looked coated in baby oil.

Bring back the Bloom!

Varik

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Ray tracing can be used for audio too. So it might be part of their 3D audio solution.

AI pathfinding, collisions & reaction, object clashing, cloth and layers.

gizmo

Thus begins the great conflation of ray casting and ray tracing. :pac:


EDIT: Eurogamer's interview with Amy Hennig just went live...

The big Amy Hennig interview

Potential-Monke

Did a ctrl+f with that, no talk about Soul Reaver, not interested! God damn it Amy, get it done!

K.O.Kiki

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yeah I can see the first batch of ray traced games going overboard on reflections. Same thing as with the ugly quake 2 era coloured lighting, lens flare and the start of last gen when devs got trigger happy with shaders and every surface had over the top specular highlights and everything looked coated in baby oil.

Ironically enough, Nvidia are using Quake 2 for RT demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRCAfdBMe2Y

Robert ninja

Really good article about the whole PC v Console debate. https://www.exclusivelygames.com/pc-vs-console-why-pc-exclusives-are-good-and-console-exclusives-are-bad/ Misses a mark by not mentioning that Consoles are usually bought out of convenience & cheap entry cost.

Retr0gamer

Ninja Gaiden 2 is now backwards compatible on Xbox One. MWAH!

Really good article about the whole PC v Console debate. https://www.exclusivelygames.com/pc-...sives-are-bad/ Misses a mark by not mentioning that Consoles are usually bought out of convenience & cheap entry cost.

This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

Varik

Wouldn't call that a good article. Just repeats the same old thing.

Console exclusives are a completely different beast; they exist to drum up artificial demand for hardware that could otherwise not stand on its own two feet.

It's the multiplatform games that keep consoles going between exclusives with sales numbers that eclipse the PC version. Ignores the fact that as system sellers the console manufacturers have a secondary revenue source and a chance for future revenue due to those new sales. PS3 is a great example, how many first party 1-3m games did Sony push out, if they weren't acting as prestige piece to add another reason to buy.

SomeSayKos

Retr0gamer wrote: »

This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

I dunno. Sony had a lot of good stuff this generation. I could list off some games, but i think 'Bloodborne' sums it all up

Jerichoholic

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ninja Gaiden 2 is now backwards compatible on Xbox One. MWAH!



This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Each console has their own exclusives that far too good to be missing out on. There's a lot more appearing on PC than ever before but you're not playing Red Dead or Mario Odyssey on PC.

TerrorFirmer

Obviously it depends on taste but broadly speaking the PS4 has had some solid 'must have' exclusives this gen. XB1....a few, but far less. Now that Halo is coming to PC I've lost all interest in the Xbox. I had all 3 and the Switch but now I just have the PS4 and PC.

TitianGerm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Obviously it depends on taste but broadly speaking the PS4 has had some solid 'must have' exclusives this gen. XB1....a few, but far less. Now that Halo is coming to PC I've lost all interest in the Xbox. I had all 3 and the Switch but now I just have the PS4 and PC.

Microsoft have taken on a good few studios in the last few years so I'd expect them to have a few new IPs early in the next consoles life.

Not sure if they'll be console exclusive though seeing as they pushed for Cuphead to be on Switch so we might see future releases between the two companies.

johnny_ultimate

My philosophy: play what you want, how you want, and - this is often important - based on what you can afford. Never be arrogant enough to assume what works for you in terms of ‘consumer box to play video games’ will be the same for everybody else. I play games across PC, Switch and PS4 - that’s ideal for me and I fully recognise the benefits and limits of each. But think someone playing, say, PS4 or XB1 only for whatever reason will still have a pretty great range of games to pick from at any given time.

Retr0gamer

True, the price of entry for a PC is much less than for a console but I find consoles now are far more complicated than they used to be and their ease of use has gotten much worse. The PS4 and Xbox One just don't feel essential to me. The Switch on the other hand does enough by offering a different way to play games and worthwhile exclusives. The Xbox, everything is on PC while I don't feel many Sony exclusives have been let downs and they haven't been supplemented with third party exclusives like in previous generations. There's good stuff like Bloodbourne, but some highly rated games like Red Dead 2 I found to be way over rated and it would be madness if that game is kept to consoles only.

The lower cost entry and perceived ease of use seems to be their only real advantage but it's a bit of a fallacy once you add subscriptions and higher game prices to the mix.

I don't think it's more so PC is better, it's more that the PS4, One are just consumer boxes to play games rather than having any individuality. And PC could be in the same boat but it offers so much more functionality outside of gaming.

EoinHef

Price of entry for PC is not much less.

Spec up a build there retro that will play modern games for cheaper than €400

Also if one can install windows,the various things that a console wants should be no mystery so id say ease of use being difficult on console is non sense.

Penn

I think it's that each simply offers differences the others don't, and it comes down to which differences you value over the others. There just isn't a right or wrong choice between the various consoles and PC, there's only the choice of the individual. There are features/games/other advantages on Xbox One, PC and Switch that I'd love on the PS4, but the PS4 is the console which ticks the most boxes for me. If I wanted some of those other features etc badly enough, I could move to the platform that provides it so long as it didn't mean I'd be losing a greater amount of the features etc I had on PS4. Or I could have more than one console/PC provided the cost was justified.

It's personal preference. Each have their own advantages/disadvantages/exclusives/features... Which one provides the greatest benefit to each individual is the right choice for them.

TitianGerm

EoinHef wrote: »

Price of entry for PC is not much less.

Spec up a build there retro that will play modern games for cheaper than €400

Also if one can install windows,the various things that a console wants should be no mystery so id say ease of use being difficult on console is non sense.

You won't build a PC to match a PS4 Pro or X for €400 (which both are regularly available for and even cheaper on occasion) and you've no hope of getting down to €250 that the S and regular PS4 sell for using new parts.

Spend a bit more on a PC and you'll be set for a long time though with an easy enough upgrade path that "may" not break the bank. I'm very happy with my PC and find myself using it the most now for my gaming when I actually get a bit of free time.

Retr0gamer

I meant cost of entry for PC is more than console. not sure why I typed it as less???

I guess I just find the One and PS4... boring.

But then it's that boring design that is where these machines need to go to keep cost down for manufacture and for developers.

EoinHef

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I meant cost of entry for PC is more than console. not sure why I typed it as less???

I guess I just find the One and PS4... boring.

But then it's that boring design that is where these machines need to go to keep cost down for manufacture and for developers.

Ah ok,i was wondering.

Givin there price points,consoles are mostly all they can be. My PS4 sees a decent amount of use just because my IRL friends play there exclusively. If im happy to play something solo or with randoms ill buy those games on PC

Cordell

Consoles are more that they can be at the price point. If they are not a loss leader (but I suspect they are) they are sold at a break-even price.