Moving a small business to VOIP

smacl

I currently own and run a small company and have been having serious issues with Eir that don't look like being resolved any time soon, all land lines currently down. I'm looking to move to an IP based system, currently looking at Blueface. I'll be picking up four handsets, three based in one office the other remote. Ideally I'd like to keep my existing business numbers, based on 2 ISDN lines split to give four numbers and one broadband line. Thinking is ditch the ISDN lines and keep the broadband. Any potential pitfalls, recommendations, or general advice much appreciated. In terms of handsets, I don't need anything fancy, just the usual being able transfer calls, put calls on hold, etc..

pizzahead77

smacl wrote: »

I currently own and run a small company and have been having serious issues with Eir that don't look like being resolved any time soon, all land lines currently down. I'm looking to move to an IP based system, currently looking at Blueface. I'll be picking up four handsets, three based in one office the other remote. Ideally I'd like to keep my existing business numbers, based on 2 ISDN lines split to give four numbers and one broadband line. Thinking is ditch the ISDN lines and keep the broadband. Any potential pitfalls, recommendations, or general advice much appreciated. In terms of handsets, I don't need anything fancy, just the usual being able transfer calls, put calls on hold, etc..

The disadvantage of VoIP is that it is reliant on your broadband being up but some VoIP providers will allow automatic diverts to mobiles or other numbers if the VoIP line is down.

Don't buy any phones from Blueface - they lock them done to their network and its a real pain to get the phones unlocked if you decide to cancel the service/move network.

Gmaximum

smacl wrote: »

I currently own and run a small company and have been having serious issues with Eir that don't look like being resolved any time soon, all land lines currently down. I'm looking to move to an IP based system, currently looking at Blueface. I'll be picking up four handsets, three based in one office the other remote. Ideally I'd like to keep my existing business numbers, based on 2 ISDN lines split to give four numbers and one broadband line. Thinking is ditch the ISDN lines and keep the broadband. Any potential pitfalls, recommendations, or general advice much appreciated. In terms of handsets, I don't need anything fancy, just the usual being able transfer calls, put calls on hold, etc..

As the other poster said if you move everything to VOIP using a single broadband connection you've got a single point of failure to potentially bring down all your office comms in one go

You may say that won't happen and won't effect my business but look at Magnet's outage yesterday and the comments on twitter from SMEs. I'm not singling out Magnet it's just fresh in the memory

Bear in mind that unless you're in a larger town or city it's unlikely that you'll have any choice other than using eir lines for access

A bundled service including the phone system and minutes etc will save probably save you money. At an absolute minimum you need to be able to divert numbers to mobile or other location but you should really look at a second connection from another provider to keep you going. A basic mobile dongle can at least keep your email going

If phones are absolutely critical talk to a local IT or PBX provider who can provide a hybrid VOIP PBX with a PSTN back up

fbit_colin

As it has previously been said broadband is key. If you can get efibre in your are then you should be fine to run voice and data over the connection otherwise you really need to separate with two broadband connections.

you are not going to run a steady VoiP connection over a 3g or 4g dongle so getting away from Eir as they own the phone lines isnt going to happen unless you have a good wireless provider in your area like Host Ireland.

yes the costs of running a steady VoIP connection can save you money and give you options when a service fails as i always have my clients have the best first broadband connection they can afford and then a second backup connection via another technology.

if you let us know where you are in the country then i am sure some suggestions for a solution will be given

smacl

Thanks for all the feedback. in Dublin 16 with e-fibre and doing this as all my ISDN lines are currently down with line faults after being just intermittent for the last few months. Eir support has been abysmal and while we currently have complaints in via ComReg, I have no faith in Eir resolving the problems any time soon as they are blaming being unable to access underground lines on the council. I take the point of having a second broadband line to provide a measure of redundancy and will look to go with this as soon as Eir can facilitate me. Prices in from Blueface look reasonable, and also going to be comparing offerings from Nuacom, Virgin Media Business and IPTelecom. Anyone any experience of these providers or are they all offering pretty much the same thing? The bulk of the outgoing calls will be to the UK, with a mixture of calls to land lines and mobile. Don't know if this has any effect on running costs.

fbit_colin

as you already have e-fibre you could just choose a provider. i normally use blueface or goldfish. i have found the blueface business offering pretty much stable the last few years.

like the others i would advise purchasing your own handsets so you have the flexibility to move.

http://www.yealink.com
http://www.grandstream.com/


as you have more than one handset you could look at a VoiP PBX like 3CX http://3cx.com which will add a lot more features on top of your VoIP providers offering.
Once you have it up an running you can start to look at fail over to an analogue or ISDN line should you ever get them back up and running.

smacl

Thanks for the reply. With regards to handsets, I'll probably be going cheap and cheerful to start out with. Main downside I noticed with the blueface offerings is that they all require an ethernet cable back to the router which is a bit of a pain as all 16 ports of my current router and the 4 additional ones on the modem are in use. Can any of the handsets pick up IP connectivity via WiFi or USB tethering to a PC or laptop, as this would make my life a bit easier. I've used Skype handsets in the past, so I'd assume there is something similar for SIP. For all the complex features our current analog system has, the only one really used is putting calls on hold, transferring them, and collecting messages when a phone doesn't get answered. Regards fail over, I'd probably ditch the ISDN if this worked and use a second broadband line as backup. We use a lot of FTP, Dropbox, TeamViewer and various other reasonably heavy use internet stuff so extra bandwidth is always welcome.

fbit_colin

yealink are a good price and sturdy handset.
the entry level t19p will be €60 or lower
they come with two ports on the back so you can plug a laptop/pc lan cable into one port and then the other into your wall/floor point or directly into your switch to save on ports

smacl

fbit_colin wrote: »

yealink are a good price and sturdy handset.
the entry level t19p will be €60 or lower
they come with two ports on the back so you can plug a laptop/pc lan cable into one port and then the other into your wall/floor point or directly into your switch to save on ports

Cheers, would probably need to go up a model though as this is 100/10 and we run gigabit internet here and chunter around some pretty large files.

Mr. G

Get gigabit phones these days. The T23G phones are good.

Shop around and try out providers (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250586). What you want to achieve is possible with most providers, my suggestion is buy your phones separately so they are not locked down and can be integrated with another phone system when needed.

Goldfish seem to be doing quite well and have heard a lot of good things about them.

smacl

Mr. G wrote: »

Get gigabit phones these days. The T23G phones are good.

Shop around and try out providers (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250586). What you want to achieve is possible with most providers, my suggestion is buy your phones separately so they are not locked down and can be integrated with another phone system when needed.

Goldfish seem to be doing quite well and have heard a lot of good things about them.

Thanks for this. I've spoken to Blueface and had a quote from them, will do the same with Goldfish and make a comparison.

Possibly a silly question, but if I have a laptop that connects to the internet via wifi but also has an RJ45 for a physical connection, can I plug a phone such as the T23G into the RJ45 and get connectivity to it that way? Just thinking about a remote worker and how she could use this system without dragging cables around the house. Alternatively I guess I could use a repeater that includes physical ports.

fbit_colin

you can connect a phone to a laptop and use its wifi connection to connect it to the lan.

The wifi adapter and lan adapter have to be put in bridge mode.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/create-a-network-bridge-windows

or use powerline adapters and place one at your switch and one where the laptop worker sits

seannash

In relation to headsets you should definitely consider getting wireless headsets that connect to the desktop\laptop via USB.

Nothing worse than faffing about with an old fashioned deskphone.
We have all agents in our place on them and they are great.

smacl

Thanks for all the feedback guys, genuinely appreciated. After getting a few quotes and talking to the different providers we've signed up with Goldfish and gone with GXP1628 gigabit handsets as we really need the solution immediately. I'll post back in about a month with some feedback of how it is working out. If the system seems to be working well at that point I'll cancel the ISDNs and get a second broadband line for redundancy.

smacl

[RANT]So the handsets arrived today, got everything installed and guess which telecom vendors modem and/or service isn't VOIP compatible? On to Eir for bit over two hours today, about 90% of which was me being on hold, and a very apologetic lady from tech support is going to courier me out a modem in the morning. I'm starting to miss the days where I could press button B to get my money back when things weren't working. Goldfish tech support chap was decent enough but couldn't really help me. On the plus side, for 10 minutes onto them I was on hold for maybe 10 seconds, so about a factor of a thousand times more attentive than our national telecoms provider with their permanent and pensionable staff. Oh, and the modem in question was a zylex re-badged as an Eircom F1000, went through every setting change that google came up with to no avail. I strongly suspect the VOIP thing is intentional thwarting of a competitive service and have raised another complaint to COMREG in relation to it. Best little country to do business in my hole![/rant]

Anyhoo, glad to get that one out of my system.

msmx5

Hi smacl,

I know you need to get a number of handsets working but a possible short-term solution to get at lease a single phone working would be to find the IP address of your IP-Phone (assuming its fixed!) and add this address to a DMZ on your eircom F1000 router.

M

davo2001

msmx5 wrote: »

Hi smacl,

I know you need to get a number of handsets working but a possible short-term solution to get at lease a single phone working would be to find the IP address of your IP-Phone (assuming its fixed!) and add this address to a DMZ on your eircom F1000 router.

M

Please do not do this, putting anything in a DMZ is a MASSIVE security risk.

smacl

Expecting a new modem from Eir tomorrow which I'm hoping will fix the problem. Out of interest, for other Eir e-fibre customers out there using VOIP, what DSL modem/router are you using? I've no problem picking up a third party device if Eir are hell bent on blocking VOIP. This post on the Eir support site suggests they intentionally don't support VOIP on the F1000?

fbit_colin

does the modem have SIP ALG enabled as this can cause problems with VoIP? i use eir fibre at home and have the F2000 modem which works fine with a Blueface account

smacl

fbit_colin wrote: »

does the modem have SIP ALG enabled as this can cause problems with VoIP? i use eir fibre at home and have the F2000 modem which works fine with a Blueface account

Received a replacement F2000 modem this morning which now works fine. I tried all the ALG enable/disable settings on the F1000 to no avail, googling it suggests a firmware issue.

fbit_colin

glad its all working

slegs

smacl wrote: »

[RANT]So the handsets arrived today, got everything installed and guess which telecom vendors modem and/or service isn't VOIP compatible?  On to Eir for bit over two hours today, about 90% of which was me being on hold, and a very apologetic lady from tech support is going to courier me out a modem in the morning.  I'm starting to miss the days where I could press button B to get my money back when things weren't working.  Goldfish tech support chap was decent enough but couldn't really help me.  On the plus side, for 10 minutes onto them I was on hold for maybe 10 seconds, so about a factor of a thousand times more attentive than our national telecoms provider with their permanent and pensionable staff.  Oh, and the modem in question was a zylex re-badged as an Eircom F1000, went through every setting change that google came up with to no avail.  I strongly suspect the VOIP thing is intentional thwarting of a competitive service and have raised another complaint to COMREG in relation to it.  Best little country to do business in my hole![/rant]

Anyhoo, glad to get that one out of my system.

Modem/router should have nothing to do with VoIP compatibility. All you need is an internet connection. just plug an ethernet cable from phone into router.
Unless eir have suddenly started blocking VoIP traffic which isnt the case from my personal experience.
If the problem is receiving the media (audio) from calls to and from Goldfish then its likely a NAT issue which can be simply solved using a stun server setting in your phone settings. Goldfish should be able to recommend a stun server. Its almost certainly nothing to do with eir or their modems which are just dumb internet routers.

smacl

slegs wrote: »

Modem/router should have nothing to do with VoIP compatibility. All you need is an internet connection. just plug an ethernet cable from phone into router.
Unless eir have suddenly started blocking VoIP traffic which isnt the case from my personal experience.
If the problem is receiving the media (audio) from calls to and from Goldfish then its likely a NAT issue which can be simply solved using a stun server setting in your phone settings. Goldfish should be able to recommend a stun server. Its almost certainly nothing to do with eir or their modems which are just dumb internet routers.

Wasn't working on the F1000 supplied by Eir, replaced with F2000 supplied by Eir and VOIP started working which clearly demonstrates the modem was the issue. As per my previous link to the Eir website this is an issue they know and acknowledge;

eir wrote:

The provision of the modem from eircom is not intent to supply a VOIP function and as a result the best advice I can offer is to contact Zyxel for more information on this or source an alternative modem that does have a clearer path in performing this task.

While there could well have been workarounds for this issue on the existing hardware, it does seem like eir's intent when they were supplying this modem was to block VOIP. There's a related thread on unlocking the F1000 here, see post 277.

slegs

Not wanting to get into a row with you but I think there were crossed wires with eir (pardon the pun). 
The comments about F1000 and VoiP settings are related to configuring the voip accounts on the router - these are only intended for use with eir VoIP services. This shouldnt have affected your service with Goldfish - you only needed an internet connection as you would have configured the VoIP settings on your phone.
The replacement working out of box seems like a red herring. They dont have router level port blocking for SIP - this would be a network feature if they wanted to do it. The unlocking thread is about unlocking the router to apply settings to work with other ISPs. Again the VoIP comment is a red herring.
I have a F1000 and it  works fine with VoIP via a phone with the settings built in (stun is needed). Anyway you are working so all good.

smacl

slegs wrote: »

Not wanting to get into a row with you but I think there were crossed wires with eir (pardon the pun). 
The comments about F1000 and VoiP settings are related to configuring the voip accounts on the router - these are only intended for use with eir VoIP services. This shouldnt have affected your service with Goldfish - you only needed an internet connection as you would have configured the VoIP settings on your phone.
The replacement working out of box seems like a red herring. They dont have router level port blocking for SIP - this would be a network feature if they wanted to do it. The unlocking thread is about unlocking the router to apply settings to work with other ISPs. Again the VoIP comment is a red herring.
I have a F1000 and it  works fine with VoIP via a phone with the settings built in (stun is needed). Anyway you are working so all good.

I don't doubt any of the above, but extended tech support calls to both Eir and Goldfish couldn't resolve the problem, and Eir's solution was to provide a new modem (FOC). While I don't have the technical knowledge to comment beyond that, I would have hoped the combined skills of the tech support people of the two companies involved would have been able find the alternative easier solution if there was one. Doesn't say a whole lot for the tech savvy of the support people on either side if they're fixing what are essentially configuration issues by throwing new correctly configured hardware at them.

msmx5

smacl wrote: »

...I would have hoped the combined skills of the tech support people of the two companies involved would have been able find the alternative easier solution if there was one. Doesn't say a whole lot for the tech savvy of the support people on either side if they're fixing what are essentially configuration issues by throwing new correctly configured hardware at them.

Believe me that Eir are not the only ones that throw new hardware at problems that are often not hardware issues. Virgin media do the same... h/w is often cheaper than a tech support engineers time.

Good that you got it working and probably have a better router to boot! Some routers are better than others at handling NAT for Voip.. My previous caused many issues with VOIP until I port forwarded a hole to my IP Phone/ATA. My current ASUS router on the other hand must have more advanced NAT as I didn't have to port forward and both incoming and outgoing calls are working fine for both my lines.

smacl

Just a quick follow up on this a month into having moved to Goldfish from Eir to say that everything is running well, it is a technically superior solution to the ISDN with respect to remote workers, and our phone bills are down by about 60%. Once we got the new modem sorted, tech support from Goldfish has been excellent and I'd have no problem recommending them as a provider. Thanks for all the feedback from people here, genuinely appreciated!

Mr. G

smacl wrote: »

Just a quick follow up on this a month into having moved to Goldfish from Eir to say that everything is running well, it is a technically superior solution to the ISDN with respect to remote workers, and our phone bills are down by about 60%. Once we got the new modem sorted, tech support from Goldfish has been excellent and I'd have no problem recommending them as a provider. Thanks for all the feedback from people here, genuinely appreciated!

Good to hear you got sorted