Apple Event September 12th

Bob24

eeloe wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

not true.

This guy in the video you posted is complete rubbish. The text on the iPhone screen during the demo backs-up exactly what DubDJ mentions, but the guy doesn't even look at this important piece of information as he is more busy explaining how skeptical he is about Face ID than trying to understand what happened during the demo.

Sad Professor

I didn't watch the whole video so I don't know if that dude addresses this, but when it failed it said "Passcode required to enable Face ID". Same way you have to enter your passcode to enable Touch ID after a restart. So either someone forgot to do that or it had already tried and failed to authenticate someone else's face causing it to fallback to the passcode (as also happens with Touch ID).

However that doesn't take away from the fact that this was an embarrassing mistake by Apple and that there probably are issues with Face ID (otherwise they wouldn't have been trying to integrate Touch ID into the OLED display).

awec

eeloe wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

not true.

To be honest I think he's reaching more than a bit with his theory.

Even if a moist face does cause authentication problems this is not that different to touch id which doesn't work well with wet fingers.

challengemaster

awec wrote: »

Samsungs use it

Samsungs kind of use IR for their Iris scanning, but nowhere near the same level. The dot mapping of a light mask isn't used by samsungs, and the area being monitored is much smaller for IR purposes. It's also going to be using much less data points. It also doesn't track 3d positioning so can't tell the difference between a face and a photo.

Windows uses it

And how many PC's do you know of that come with an IR scanner? It's an extra $69 at minimum if you want to buy a facial recognition camera for windows

Xbox has been using it in the past.

How much is a Kinect again?

Apple stick a bit of marketing around it and some buzzwords and people think they've reinvented facial login.

First decent implementation of it on phones.

flaneur

eeloe wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

not true.

The phone display says "Password is required to enable FaceID"

iOS always does that if a phone has just been restarted. You can't unlock an iOS device with TouchID until the password has been entered at least once.

awec

challengemaster wrote: »

Samsungs kind of use IR for their Iris scanning, but nowhere near the same level. The dot mapping of a light mask isn't used by samsungs, and the area being monitored is much smaller for IR purposes. It's also going to be using much less data points. It also doesn't track 3d positioning so can't tell the difference between a face and a photo.


And how many PC's do you know of that come with an IR scanner? It's an extra $69 at minimum if you want to buy a facial recognition camera for windows

How much is a Kinect again?



First decent implementation of it on phones.

Are you really bringing up the cost of a Kinect and a IR scanner when talking about a 1300 quid phone?

Up next: here is how Apple invented wireless charging.

Question for you: why didn't Apple put face id in phones years ago? The tech is not new. Why haven't they brought it to the iPhone 8? Why were they researching up until a few months ago on how to get touchid to work without a home button?

Because FaceID was never plan A.

flaneur

There's probably not much point in commenting any further. These threads rapidly turn into the religious wars of operating systems.

Let's just wait until the iPhone X gets into the wild and gets some real users before we have strong opinions on it.

The one thing I would say though is Apple are very unlikely to launch a technology that doesn't work. They're pretty conservative about pushing out tech that isn't up to primetime.

DubDJ

awec wrote: »

Are you really bringing up the cost of a Kinect and a IR scanner when talking about a 1300 quid phone?

Up next: here is how Apple invented wireless charging.

Apple are using the open Qi wireless charging standard, as stated very clearly in the keynote. I don't understand why you're throwing out statements that nobody here has made. It's quite common knowledge that Apple take idea's and standards that already exists and improve on them and release them in products when they're happy they are up to the job. From the original mouse back in the early days to fingerprint scanning with TouchID. They never claim to invent these things, but to innovate on ideas and improve them. There where a lot of smartphones before the iPhone, but it wasn't until it's release did the whole industry start to rapidly move towards smartphones.

Will I Am Not

flaneur wrote: »

There's probably not much point in commenting any further. These threads rapidly turn into the religious wars of operating systems.

Let's just wait until the iPhone X gets into the wild and gets some real users before we have strong opinions on it.

The one thing I would say though is Apple are very unlikely to launch a technology that doesn't work. They're pretty conservative about pushing out tech that isn't up to primetime.

Eh, iPhone 4 and the free case fiasco?

awec

flaneur wrote: »

There's probably not much point in commenting any further. These threads rapidly turn into the religious wars of operating systems.

Let's just wait until the iPhone X gets into the wild and gets some real users before we have strong opinions on it.

The one thing I would say though is Apple are very unlikely to launch a technology that doesn't work. They're pretty conservative about pushing out tech that isn't up to primetime.

It'll work for sure, it's just not as intuitive or easy to use as touchid. No amount of buzzword bingo is going to change that.

challengemaster

awec wrote: »

Are you really bringing up the cost of a Kinect and a IR scanner when talking about a 1300 quid phone?

No, my point is that none of them are actually included in the device you're talking about. They require a separate IR camera/sensor to do the same task that is now being implemented in a better way in a phone.

Question for you: why didn't Apple put face id in phones years ago? The tech is not new.

At a guess, because the processing power wasn't there to support the implementation of it that they wanted - which is true 3D mapping of facial features. They're not the company to half-ass it and just slap an IR sensor on and call it a day.

But I'm guessing the idea that processing power didn't support the implementation in a phone doesn't fit well with your mud slinging tirade

flaneur

What they tend to do is come up with a tightly integrated ecosystem and well implemented application of these technologies that causes them to go mass market much more effectively than some of their competitors.

They don't actually make the outrageous claims that people tend to attribute to them.

smurfjed

I have facial recognition on a Samsung S8+, its hit and miss and certainly doesn't like sunglasses. 90% of the time it doesn't work and i have to use touch ID.
I hope that Apple have better success.

awec

challengemaster wrote: »

No, my point is that none of them are actually included in the device you're talking about. They require a separate IR camera/sensor to do the same task that is now being implemented in a better way in a phone.



At a guess, because the processing power wasn't there to support the implementation of it that they wanted - which is true 3D mapping of facial features. They're not the company to half-ass it and just slap an IR sensor on and call it a day.

lol. So what that you have to buy it seperately?

How do you know it is implemented better? Because Apple said so? It is the same tech under the hood, using IR cameras to take 3d readings of faces.

The only big difference being that on the phone it requires effort to ensure your face is at a satisfactory angle to the camera. And you have to swipe up afterwards.

I'll ask again, if they think FaceID is so great why did they bother trying to get TouchID on the phone?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

listermint

flaneur wrote: »

What they tend to do is come up with a tightly integrated ecosystem and well implemented application of these technologies that causes them to go mass market much more effectively than some of their competitors.

They don't actually make the outrageous claims that people tend to attribute to them.

They really do and not they aren't mass market either.

They are second fiddle in terms of OS they have been half baking it for about four years now.

There is a reason they are not mass market there is a reason iMessage is only big in the states.
They have a captive audience very captive who they will bleed money out of as can be clearly seen by the increasing prices year on year to maintain revenue coming in. It's all about share prices now has been for some time its not about eco system or user experience.

That's now out the window.

Its a Falicy to say they are infallible or truely value user experience the last few releases including the MacBook fly in the face of typical apple users needs.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

No, my point is that none of them are actually included in the device you're talking about. They require a separate IR camera/sensor to do the same task that is now being implemented in a better way in a phone.

At a guess, because the processing power wasn't there to support the implementation of it that they wanted - which is true 3D mapping of facial features. They're not the company to half-ass it and just slap an IR sensor on and call it a day.

But I'm guessing the idea that processing power didn't support the implementation in a phone doesn't fit well with your mud slinging tirade

My kinect came with my Xbone and my laptop (only a Dell Inspiron, nothing high end) uses Windows hello.

I'm quite interested to see how well Apple's implementation will work. I find windows hello sometimes failing in certain light conditions and other instances like when I wear my second pair of glasses. I'm sure Apple will have all that stuff well covered.

Blazer

murpho999 wrote: »

How do you know how slow it is when you have not used it and a final phone has not been released?

You should not be using your phone when driving anyway so that's a poor argument.

Why because you said so?
I use it for music and I have Bluetooth and the AirPods for everything else.

Eire Go Brach

I was like a kid at xmas for this keynote. I have an iPhone 6.

I was getting the new iPhone after seeing all the leaks, I loved it. But wow that price. I just can't do it. I really can't justify it. Plus face ID. Assume Face ID works perfectly in all conditions. Be honest its is just plain awkward. Looking at your phone to unlock it is just **** and not practical most of the time. Touch ID is so much handier.

That sad reality of that price is that now I'm looking at the 8+ physiologically €939 seem ok :eek: Last year I was like no way will I pay that.

ozmo

DubDJ wrote: »

Apple are using the open Qi wireless charging standard, as stated very clearly in the keynote.....

Hmm - this part I didnt understand - they say it uses Qi - great...
But then later when he puts the Phone, Watch and earbuds on the charger - he says no standard can do this and he called it "AirPower"

See 1:45 in on the video

https://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2017/

murpho999

Blazer wrote: »

Why because you said so?
I use it for music and I have Bluetooth and the AirPods for everything else.

No, because the law says so. It's illegal to touch your phone whilst driving and you know that.

challengemaster

ozmo wrote: »

Hmm - this part I didnt understand - they say it uses Qi - great...
But then later when he puts the Phone, Watch and earbuds on the charger - he says no standard can do this and he called it "AirPower"

AirPower is their own wireless charging pad. The phones themselves are capable of using Qi.

Bradz213

ozmo wrote: »

Hmm - this part I didnt understand - they say it uses Qi - great...
But then later when he puts the Phone, Watch and earbuds on the charger - he says no standard can do this and he called it "AirPower"

See 1:45 in on the video

https://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2017/

I'm pretty sure the "no standard" is down to the fact the interface is different. The watch and Air Pods communicate with the Phone via the charger to display the charge information for al three on the iPhone

Bob24

ozmo wrote: »

DubDJ wrote: »

Apple are using the open Qi wireless charging standard, as stated very clearly in the keynote.....

Hmm - this part I didnt understand - they say it uses Qi - great...
But then later when he puts the Phone, Watch and earbuds on the charger - he says no standard can do this and he called it "AirPower"

See 1:45 in on the video

https://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2017/

I thought it was pretty clear. The phone is Qi compliant and can therefore be charged using a regular Qi charger. But since Qi currently doesn't support multi-device charging they also have a propriatary charging mechanism for that which will only work with an Apple charger and Apple devices (but they said they will work to try having that feature included into future versions of the standard).

DubDJ

From what I've read, Apple are supporting the Qi wireless charging standard. The AirPower feature they demoed was a more advanced version supporting multiple devices. But they've said they will work with the Qi standard committee to implement the more powerful version into the Qi standard. As Apple are already a member of the consortium they are just contributing to it.

Blazer

murpho999 wrote: »

No, because the law says so. It's illegal to touch your phone whilst driving and you know that.

Jesus man go back and read the rules.

Dades

Yeah, pretty sure you can use a Sat Nav or music app while driving. You'd need to unlock for any music changing beyond the controls on the lock screen.

I think it's only sending/reading messages in any way that is specifically illegal over and above undue care and attention.

challengemaster

Dades wrote: »

Yeah, pretty sure you can use a Sat Nav or music app while driving. You'd need to unlock for any music changing beyond the controls on the lock screen.

I think it's only sending/reading messages in any way that is specifically illegal over and above undue care and attention.

Nope, that's wrong.

The actual law is against holding or cradling the phone with any part of the body. Picking up the phone is the illegal part, nothing to do with how you use it.

3.— (1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.

“ hold ”, in relation to a mobile phone, means holding the phone by hand or supporting or cradling it with another part of the body;

However if you have the phone in a car mount and are using it in a way that impairs your driving (like watching a movie or playing with it) - there's nothing stopping you being charged with driving without due care and attention at the discretion of the gardaí.

Dades

challengemaster wrote: »

Nope, that's wrong.

The actual law is against holding or cradling the phone with any part of the body. Picking up the phone is the illegal part, nothing to do with how you use it.

Nobody is wrong. In the context of the discussion here, I think we're all assuming the phone is in some form of cradle. What I'm referring to is the 2014 regulation that specifically defined what you can't do with a handsfree device.

RSA wrote:

What do the new regulations do?
These regulations apply to mobile phones which are not held ie hands-free devices. ‘Text message’ in these regulations includes an SMS or MMS message, or an email. ‘MMS’ means a Multimedia Messaging Service which sends messages that include multimedia content between mobile or fixed numbers assigned in accordance with national numbering plans. ‘SMS’ means a Short Message Service text message, composed principally of alphabetical or numerical characters, capable of being sent between mobile or fixed numbers assigned in accordance with national numbering plans.

challengemaster wrote: »

However if you have the phone in a car mount and are using it in a way that impairs your driving (like watching a movie or playing with it) - there's nothing stopping you being charged with driving without due care and attention at the discretion of the gardaí.

Again, that's a given. Something like trying to stare directly at your phone to unlock, for example. :pac:

GhostyMcGhost

Can't wait now