Attitude/s-observations from a semi outsider

jeffk

Just a general discussion and some observations from a semi outsider.

Back around January i got the news i was type two diabetic and well better start losing weight, so cycling sounded good.

Dug out an old bike and set about using it, then it became obvious it need some TLC, so off to a LBS, generally feeling ah sure be better of getting a new one etc. Patched it up within financial sense and set about cycling. Anytime i went back, i would be pushed towards a new bike

Bike to work scheme kept coming up, unfortunately after many applications/interviews my golden age/chance to get a job and avail of this scheme went out the window. So bit the bullet, got a trade in(E90) against around 1K on a bike. Got going, loving the new bike, big difference to other, as you'd hope/expect.

As i got more into it, i got to see a lot of us and them.
From the serious cyclist passing you, to LBS workers who didn't want to know about your squeaky brakes as i'm trying to sell a lycra clad person/club member something who then try and fob you off with poor workmanship and take your money.
Down to 90% of cyclists won't nod/smile/hello etc

I will agree there are some new cyclists who shouldn't be let on two wheels, they are a danger to themselves and many others.
But i feel it comes across as a very cliquey activity and that's a shame because ive had some great fun so far(cycling along the canal to Maynooth being the latest).

magicbastarder

jeffk wrote: »

90% of cyclists won't nod/smile/hello etc

my experience is that 90% of commuter cyclists won't say hello, but 90% of 'leisure' cyclists (or however you want to term the sort of people i meet on spins around NCD) will say hello.

possibly more so than any other activity, cycling will encompass multiple 'types' - the people who see it as simply a way of getting from A to B, mainly as a commute; those who see it as a form of exercise; those who see it as an end in itself; those who see it as a competitive sport; and those who probably combine all four, plus any other categories i've left out.

if you find a shop who thinks your issues are too trivial, i'm afraid i can offer no better advice than to shop around till you find one which deals with you on the level.

TheBlaaMan

I think a lot of activities suffer from the sniffy, snobbery you have encountered, but just as much, there are folks amongst us who just love cycling in all it various forms and I'm sure that in due course you will find yourself fitting into one of the many 'groups' or 'types' of cyclist more than the other. Newbies can also be a bit too frenetic about things like squeaky brakes and possibly just need to stress less.........thats kinda why we ride in the first place.

Enjoy the ride

magicbastarder

jeffk wrote: »

ive had some great fun so far(cycling along the canal to Maynooth being the latest).

to be fair, any cyclist you meet on this stretch who doesn't say hello probably needs a lesson in basic manners. i'd say hello to anything with ears on that sort of trip.

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

to be fair, any cyclist you meet on this stretch who doesn't say hello probably needs a lesson in basic manners. i'd say hello to anything with ears on that sort of trip.

No one owes you a hello or a greeting just because you're both cycling.
I hate that attitude. You never know what's going on with someone, they could be having/had one of the worst times of their lives, they could be looking for solitude, theycould be wrecked after an interval or effort, they could be off in their own world.

I've never been insulted by a stranger not saying hello to me. I never expect it, and I don't demand it.

OP there are great bike shops out there, and plenty of them, you can go to a friendlier one.

I haven't felt the then and us thing, I do race. I get shoaled every day if the week in my normal clothes and old bike, exclusively by men. Doesn't happen so much on the road or track bikes + lycra.
I've found cycling to be largely inclusive, welcoming, friendly and awesome.
There are arseholes everywhere, in every sport.

Kaisr Sose

I have been cycling out on my own on remote roads/places since I was 14 and it was alway the norm to salute, nod, twitch head, or whatever at a fellow cyclist. It's not hard to do even if you are looking for solitude or just finished an interval. Cycling in Ireland is the worse for the trend to be head down and ignore everybody else you encounter. Even in this fast paced and anonymous world, what cost or price on acknowledging a fellow cyclist?

Edit: I am talking about recreation/sport cycling rather than commuting/Cycling in built up area

Macy0161

Kaisr Sose wrote:

Cycling in Ireland is the worse for the trend to be head down and ignore everybody else you encounter. Even in this facist paces and anonymous world, what cost or price on acknowledging a fellow cyclist?

It's not a cyclist thing though, just a societal one. Plenty will not return a "hello" if you're out on a trail walking these days too.

crosstownk

magicbastarder wrote: »

my experience is that 90% of commuter cyclists won't say hello, but 90% of 'leisure' cyclists (or however you want to term the sort of people i meet on spins around NCD) will say hello.

I agree with this. Commuter cyclists are no different to car commuters, public transport commuters or pedestrian commuters - none of which tend to hail each other as they commute.

I commute during the week and do leisure spins at the weekend. I nod to and get nodded at a lot more on leisure spins - probably due to a perception of a shared common interest.

No offence should be taken from a failure to nod/greet.

carltonleon

crosstownk wrote: »

I agree with this. Commuter cyclists are no different to car commuters, public transport commuters or pedestrian commuters - none of which tend to hail each other as they commute

Agree with this. When cycling to work I would not tend to greet a fellow cyclist as they are on the far side of the road with 2 lines of traffic between us. I will quite happily talk or acknowledge any cyclist on my side of the road if stopped at the lights or if overtaking or being overtaken but certainly not as much as when out on a leisure spin....

Out on a leisure spin I am like a deranged Paula Radcliffe, I am nodding so much ......

magicbastarder

nee wrote: »

No one owes you a hello or a greeting just because you're both cycling.

yeah, the 'basic manners' comment was a bit strong; i should clarify that my reaction has nothing to do with cycling, per se - if i was out walking/jogging/cycling along a canal, based on the number of people i expect you'd meet, i'd probably have a nod or a hello for anyone i passed. and my experience is that the vast majority of people seem to do the same.

obviously, if it was jammed with people, it'd get a bit tiring greeting everyone who walked past.

Lumen

I wave (OK, raise a finger) when I'm outside the Pale. Once I cross the border on to the mean streets of the Big Smoke it's eyes down for a full house.

ED E

Think you need a new LBS. Maybe try Rothar in the Dublin if thats practical.

07Lapierre

I'll just leave this here:

tomasrojo

I do the open-hand wave without taking the hand off the handlebars when I'm on the cargo bike if someone keeps staring at me. Which is common enough. Around my neighbourhood I seem to be a semi-celebrity anyway.

Alanstrainor

I'd be waving non-stop on my commute if I did. I do it the odd time to people of come to recognise on my commute now, or if I see a jersey I recognise or something. But certainly not the entire time. Sometimes I'm just in my own world, pushing on as hard as I can. I'd say I'm more inclined to give a nod/wave if I'm on a leisure spin on the weekends, but meh each to their own.

Budawanny

I dont know, i only started road biking myself this year and ive have some great conversations with strangers at stops in Wicklow,
at the gap, at the viewing point or where ever. Some lads are not polite on the road for sure, some are too busy concentrating on descending but i reckon most are sound , but thats just my opinion.

maybe its a case that the further away from civilisation you get , the friendlier it tends to be..

Plastik

People on bicycles in urban areas are just people using bicycles. People on bicycles in the countryside are cyclists. There's a subtle difference. If I was to salute everyone I pass each day commuting to work I might as well just cycle with one hand on the bars.

ford2600

The saluting thing really depends on the environment.

On most of my rides, I'd meet more pedestrians than cars, with the occasional cyclist. It's generally salutes all round.

It would feel odd not to salute someone here for example as it expect one on O'Connell street Dublin
https://goo.gl/hPxAUx

If you think every cyclist should salute you cycle against a large sportive someday for a cure

My father drove the same commute on a regional road between 1977 and 1992. For those 15 years he saluted the same stranger commuting in the opposite direction every day. Changes of car, was a challenge but the ritual continued. In saying that in his 11 mile commute he would only have met 5/6 cars typically. I had to let about 12 cars pass this morning before I could pull onto same road...

jeffk

I think my message and points has been misread.

One of my issues was the non smile wave etc from people, but that's the lower end. Moving upwards to the i have a super carbon bike and wear lycra then the top level LBS snobbery who are getting money off you and can't have a semi normal conversation or ignore/fob off you off with shoddy work.

Of course I don't expect everyone to go around like it's mid 19th century Germany, as i've said that's at the lower end of my annoyances

jeffk

07Lapierre wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:

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Interesting enough I cycle a Lapierre :cool:

NeedMoreGears

I'm an a la carte waver. I'll generally wave when not commuting but only to those who I think are not commuting. Just to mix it up a bit I'll wave on the quieter stretches when commuting (but only if there are not too many people).

I don't really use the LBS's much for repairs as I can do (bodge?) most things myself.

OP
1 - don't sweat the wavey thing - it took me years to reach the carefully nuanced approach above.
2 - if the LBS has a poor attitude, go to another LBS
3 - would you consider joining a club? People are generally very welcoming

magicbastarder

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

3 - would you consider joining a club? People are generally very welcoming

but only if you've a carbon bike and know what your FTP is.

(joke)

jeffk

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I'm an a la carte waver. I'll generally wave when not commuting but only to those who I think are not commuting. Just to mix it up a bit I'll wave on the quieter stretches when commuting (but only if there are not too many people).

I don't really use the LBS's much for repairs as I can do (bodge?) most things myself.

OP
1 - don't sweat the wavey thing - it took me years to reach the carefully nuanced approach above.
2 - if the LBS has a poor attitude, go to another LBS
3 - would you consider joining a club? People are generally very welcoming

I tried that on disc brakes and opened a can of worms, somethings just arent worth looking on YouTube and having a go. Making a front mud guard, now that was ok to try :cool:

Had a quick look and even see what LBS do and seemed to be the usual lycra racing bike clubs. There doesnt seem to a fat people MTB club

Wishbone Ash

jeffk wrote: »

... a lycra clad person....

jeffk wrote: »

... and wear lycra....

jeffk wrote: »

.... the usual lycra...

You seem to have a problem with cyclists wearing Lycra. Why? For many of us, cycling without Lycra would be weird and totally impractical.

Bike shop staff may give more attention to a Lycra clad cyclist as presumably they assume that they are in the middle of a ride and have encountered a problem. If arriving in ordinary clothes, they may just assume you're dropping the bike off for attention.

Regarding cycling clubs and Lycra - it's a form of identity and a showcase for the club and sponsors. Would your local GAA club teams be pictured in ordinary clothes?

(Incidentally, it's doesn't bother me in the slightest whether a salute/nod/hello are returned but I find that it's much less likely to be returned by a non-Lycra wearing cyclist).

jeffk

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with cyclists wearing Lycra. Why? For many of us, cycling without Lycra would be weird and totally impractical.

Bike shop staff may give more attention to a Lycra clad cyclist as presumably they assume that they are in the middle of a ride and have encountered a problem. If arriving in ordinary clothes, they may just assume you're dropping the bike off for attention.

Regarding cycling clubs and Lycra - it's a form of identity and a showcase for the club and sponsors. Would your local GAA club teams be pictured in ordinary clothes?

(Incidentally, it's doesn't bother me in the slightest whether a salute/nod/hello are returned but I find that it's much less likely to be returned by a non-Lycra wearing cyclist).

You start off asking do i have a problem with cyclists wearing Lycra. then end by saying non lycra(people like me) usually don't say hello back, so do you have a problem with non lycra people?

As the title says its my observations.
I've gotten many a dirty look/attitude from lycra mostly the Mamil who think going for a spin is akin to doing the tour de france. I plan on getting lycra shorts to help with saddle issues, but you won't see me covered in head to toe thinking i'm all high and mighty

Whatever I turn up in i deserve to looked after just the same( a customer is a customer), don't fob me off to fall over someone in full lycra. I'll keep coming back(small jobs all add up) whereas seasoned cyclists will do those jobs themselves

(I don't do GAA) Let's say a football team are playing in a competitive league etc, not a bunch of people out for a spin, i'm guessing you won't win prizes for beating someone by x seconds(I've never been in a club)
Do a dress code, tshirts, tie something to frame, again it's not the tour de france , its meant to be a leisure activity,

triggermortis

My commute is fairly rural and at odd times (shift work) and so I don't see too many other cyclists, but I acknowledge most people I see on their bike - except the moron who rode towards me on the wrong side of the R132 with a flashing red light on the front of their bike at 4 am! (although I suppose you could call my outburst an acknowledgement). Sometimes it's a wave or a raised hand or a nod. Sometimes I don't see others until they are almost past me
Like others have said, waving is optional and you shouldn't get upset if your wave is not returned

Tenzor07

jeffk wrote: »

There doesnt seem to a fat people MTB club

You just need to look harder...

MTB'ers don't always wear lycra, usually baggy shorts and tops, may be more your style.. and groups head to places like the GAP bike park, so a lot more social there...

magicbastarder

jeffk wrote: »

I've gotten many a dirty look/attitude from lycra mostly the Mamil who think going for a spin is akin to doing the tour de france. I plan on getting lycra shorts to help with saddle issues, but you won't see me covered in head to toe thinking i'm all high and mighty

i don't think you're appreciating why many cyclists cover themselves 'from head to toe' in lycra. a lot of it is to do with sweat and heat management, a lot to do with comfort. i did about 5k the other day in trousers and a t-shirt and my t-shirt was stuck to me with sweat at the end; granted, it was bloody humid, but it illustrates the point. cyclists wear clothes to wick away sweat.

jeffk wrote: »

it's not the tour de france , its meant to be a leisure activity

it's whatever you want it to be; if people want to go out and hammer along the road - to train for races, possibly - that's up to them. you're complaining about a sneering attitude, yet you're being quite dismissive of others simply for the clothes they wear.

crosstownk

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think you're appreciating why many cyclists cover themselves 'from head to toe' in lycra. a lot of it is to do with sweat and heat management, a lot to do with comfort.

^^This. Cycling clothing is made for cycling - it's really that simple. It's comfortable as OP alludes to in reference to 'saddle issues' - something I could write a book about

If it's a case of 'look at yer man in all the gear, does he think he's in the Tour de France or something?' then maybe the best thing is to do what you're comfortable with and let others do as they see fit. And you're right, it is a leisure activity - something to be enjoyed and the enjoyment is enhanced if you're comfortable no matter what you chose to wear - lyrca, casual gear, jeans - what ever floats your boat.

And I also get (and give) a lot more nods and waves from other lycra clad cyclists. As I said earlier, it's a perceived common interest. Much like Dublin Bus drivers will regularly salute each other as busses pass despite being from different depots and not knowing each other.

If I were you, I wouldn't put too much thought into what other people wear or don't wear and try not to match it to preconceived or stereotypical notions.

Take a piece of advice from the legendary Freddie Mercury and "Get on your bike and ride". (but probably best not ride your bike in the outfits worn on the cover of the Bicycle Race single )

Plasid

The responses rather than the original post make me think that this is a wind up. If not I suggest chilling out and stop seeing fault, you might enjoy your spin more...

jeffk

Just meant to be a light reflection after finally getting the bike sorted after a bad experience with LBS and learning disc brake or moreso the pads need a lot more TLC

Anyways getting too serious, so I'll take s the information learned to go forward and cycle with blanchardstown to navan being the dream ending to all this cycling