Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I worry there is something no right behind the scenes.

Jose mentioning at the presser on Friday that he had no idea when Pogba would be back, while pointedly pointing out that Ibra is at United recovering under their control... it feels like there is something going on there and it worries me.

Agreed, the complete lack of information and importance Jose is putting around Pogba is concerning. He is being blatantly flippant about him when asked.

There was stories that Jose was enraged by Pogba employing his own fitness regime or something?

It's probably stretching saying all is not well, but something feels off alright

sky88

miki was rightly dropped but i dont think lingard is a good enough squad player for us never mind starter would prefer moving valencia up to rw and darmian rb then play him.

Adamocovic

We'll find out about Jones today.

Conflicting reports out there but hoping it's not serious at all. We will desperately need him back after the Swansea game going up against Chelsea and Spurs.

We're still in a good position but after that terrible performance we can't afford many more slip-ups this calendar year. It doesn't look like City will have many so we will have to sort ourselves out. Beating Swansea is a must.

Hopefully we'll see some sort of reaction from the players. If we slip up again things will get very cagey.

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Rashford finished in 3rd place for Golden boy award, behind Mbappe and Dembele.

Seems to have been so tight with Rashford and Jesus that they announced Jesus was in the top three yesterday, and then Rashford pipped him at the last second in the votes.

Fair play Rashford though.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Last three games he has had two shots and made 3 key passes, with no assists. His general stats and performance levels have gone of a cliff when you look at his whoscored rating for example.

But then everyone else is hardly burning it up either. He has been obviously poor, but then when the attack itself is piss he is hardly going to be amazing. Debate is likely if he is the lynchpin for the attacking cohesion, those around him, or those behind him?

I've also indicated Herreras poor form as a contributing factor to this multiple times.
I would add Martial too, he's so hot and cold. And again was so cold this weekend.
Getting involved in silly incidents instead of focusing on his own game and attacking the full backs.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

We'll find out about Jones today.

Conflicting reports out there but hoping it's not serious at all. We will desperately need him back after the Swansea game going up against Chelsea and Spurs.

We're still in a good position but after that terrible performance we can't afford many more slip-ups this calendar year. It doesn't look like City will have many so we will have to sort ourselves out. Beating Swansea is a must.

Hopefully we'll see some sort of reaction from the players. If we slip up again things will get very cagey.

Swansea is a cup game.

Sure, we need to turn performances around, but it isn't a must win. Do you think Swansea is a league game or just placing importance on an excellent win/performance.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Jose stated the team will be a strong one.
I'd agree tho. Would prefer a second string team altogether given the current injury crisis.

crazy if so. spurs this weekend, need all the players at 100%. Lukaku and Matic are in need of a break.

would like to see

---

romero

---

darmian

---

lindeloff

---

tuanzebe

---

shaw



lingard

---

mctominay

---

blind

---

Mkhitarayan

---

Martial

---

young

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

crazy if so. spurs this weekend, need all the players at 100%. Lukaku and Matic are in need of a break.

would like to see

---

romero

---

darmian

---

lindeloff

---

tuanzebe

---

shaw



lingard

---

mctominay

---

blind

---

Mkhitarayan

---

Martial

---

young

100% agree. Matic in particular.

Trigger

Just because it’s going to be a strong team doesn’t mean it’s going to be a full strength team, squad players will be given a chance to step up imo

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Swansea is a cup game.

Sure, we need to turn performances around, but it isn't a must win. Do you think Swansea is a league game or just placing importance on an excellent win/performance.

Apologies Mitch! Completely slipped my mind that it's a cup game.

Still would say it's important for morale of the players and fans to get a good performance and result but not to the extent I initially placed on it.

Two very tough league games coming up so.

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

Just because it’s going to be a strong team doesn’t mean it’s going to be a full strength team, squad players will be given a chance to step up imo

I think we lack the squad players to step up - a load of them are already in the first team - Smalling, Lindelof, Lingard, Young, Blind.

Mitch Connor

Koeman always had something to say about United, delighted to see him fail so amazingly at Everton.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Koeman always had something to say about United, delighted to see him fail so amazingly at Everton.

Moyes is at a loose end at the moment.

paulbok

Think Moyes is hold out for the Liverpool job coming up shortly. He was always impressed their fans thought he was a managerial genius.

adox

We need to cut our loses with Jones at the end of the season.
It’s a joke at this stage that we are trying to rely on him as regular starter.

Besides him, which was an inevitable injury, we are still in October and have had a terrible injury record again for whatever reason(s). Very disappointing.

adox

adox wrote: »

We need to cut our loses with Jones at the end of the season.
It’s a joke at this stage that we are trying to rely on him as regular starter.

Besides him, which was an inevitable injury, we are still in October and have had a terrible injury record again for whatever reason(s). Very disappointing.

I'm starting to veer that way.
It's such a shame too, as he's brilliant when fit.

adox

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm starting to veer that way.
It's such a shame too, as he's brilliant when fit.

Yep, not a dis at his form at all but sometimes you have to say enough is enough.

Cantona's Collars

adox wrote: »

Yep, not a dis at his form at all but sometimes you have to say enough is enough.

He throws himself into challenges and you just wince watching him. You can't fault his commitment but some tackles and balls can't be won.

bangkok

when you think of the money we have spent in last 3 seasons and then to look at the squad and performance we had on Saturday its nothing short of a joke

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I've also indicated Herreras poor form as a contributing factor to this multiple times.
I would add Martial too, he's so hot and cold. And again was so cold this weekend.
Getting involved in silly incidents instead of focusing on his own game and attacking the full backs.

In fairness I don't know how it was taken at the time in the match, but when I saw his little kickout and the square up I thought "ah here get a grip" then I saw the tackle in a replay and thought he was totally justifiable, it was above the ball, into his shin, and the sort of tackle you can see red cards for.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think we lack the squad players to step up - a load of them are already in the first team - Smalling, Lindelof, Lingard, Young, Blind.

Blind hasn't featured the last two games.

I'm in no insinuating thats anything to do with the results, but considering he has been dropped for basically Ashley Young and his crossing, its bizzare to me Blind isn't our first choice LB considering he has a sweet a delivery as anyone.

And hes actually reliable and consistent.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

He throws himself into challenges and you just wince watching him. You can't fault his commitment but some tackles and balls can't be won.

Vidic did that too tbf but didn't get injured every time.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

We need to cut our loses with Jones at the end of the season.
It’s a joke at this stage that we are trying to rely on him as regular starter.

Besides him, which was an inevitable injury, we are still in October and have had a terrible injury record again for whatever reason(s). Very disappointing.

I think its even more disappointing considering in general how he has played when fit.

But he has definitly got more chances than most, and his ability has somewhat justified it, but as you outlining, just a liability.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness I don't know how it was taken at the time in the match, but when I saw his little kickout and the square up I thought "ah here get a grip" then I saw the tackle in a replay and thought he was totally justifiable, it was above the ball, into his shin, and the sort of tackle you can see red cards for.

I agree that was a poor refereeing decision (there was a good few of them).
But Martial after that still got caught up in trying to play that game with Huddersfield who clearly had a game-plan to tackle hard, break up play and close down fast early on.
He was lucky to stay on the field at one stage, he made a couple of rash challenges himself after that.

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm starting to veer that way.
It's such a shame too, as he's brilliant when fit.

He’s not as tough as Kevin Moran, there was a man who bled literally for United!

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Blind hasn't featured the last two games.

I'm in no insinuating thats anything to do with the results, but considering he has been dropped for basically Ashley Young and his crossing, its bizzare to me Blind isn't our first choice LB considering he has a sweet a delivery as anyone.

And hes actually reliable and consistent.

Blind is an excellent footballer. tactically and technically excellent

adox

Personally I don’t think Blind is anywhere near good enough for Utd.

Cantona's Collars

A bit of fun on a Monday. Type gob sh1tes (spell the last bit properly) into Google maps.

Mitch Connor

I'd be a big fan of blind - but I think his passing and distribution has been off this season - not as reliable or incisive with his passing as previous.

TheDoc

IS there nothing to be said for trying Blind in CM this week? :P

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

IS there nothing to be said for trying Blind in CM this week? :P

drop herrera, play blind behind matic, let matic drive a bit more and let them be a base 2 giving total freedom to a player sticking in the 10 position.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

drop herrera, play blind behind matic, let matic drive a bit more and let them be a base 2 giving total freedom to a player sticking in the 10 position.

matic should not be anywhere near the carling cup squad this week.

tastyt

Outsiders opinion, blind is a lovely technical footballer, the pure dutch product.

But hes a " nice " player, not enough aggression in him defensively and not able to create enough to be given the responsibility of being a main man attack wise.

Grand to fill the gaps when people are injured and suspended because hel probably give u a 6/7 out of ten and keep the ball nice and tidy but definitely not a guy thats gonna play a big part in driving a club to a title.

Unfortunately ye have a few of them at the minute, mixed with a few outstanding players

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

matic should not be anywhere near the carling cup squad this week.

Without Fellaini, Carrick or Pogba, either him or Herrera need to play imo. From a protection point of view I'd play Herrera, from a wanting to win point of view I'd play Matic.

Herrera is, on paper, more suited to what I would want beside Blind but he has been crap this season so can't trust him.

Herrera really has massively disappointed me since Pogba got injured. It was his chance to stake a claim for place in midfield over Fellaini and he has been rubbish.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Without Fellaini, Carrick or Pogba, either him or Herrera need to play imo. From a protection point of view I'd play Herrera, from a wanting to win point of view I'd play Matic.

Herrera is, on paper, more suited to what I would want beside Blind but he has been crap this season so can't trust him.

Herrera really has massively disappointed me since Pogba got injured. It was his chance to stake a claim for place in midfield over Fellaini and he has been rubbish.

spurs on saturday is the game we need to win, matic, luakau should be rested along with a few others tomorrow night. if we lose playing young players or half a team then so what, its the least of our priorities

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

spurs on saturday is the game we need to win, matic, luakau should be rested along with a few others tomorrow night. if we lose playing young players or half a team then so what, its the least of our priorities

I want United to go out to win every game they play in.

I know rotation is required, and this is a game that will allow it - but I still feel we must put out a team we know is capable of winning.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

spurs on saturday is the game we need to win, matic, luakau should be rested along with a few others tomorrow night. if we lose playing young players or half a team then so what, its the least of our priorities

I'd agree to an extent but nobody will be happy if we go out of the cup.
The Spurs game tho should be priority so yes, Matic and Lukaku should be rested without doubt.

Nalz

bangkok wrote: »

Blind is an excellent footballer. tactically and technically excellent

Words like excellent are thrown around way too much nowadays, and watered down a lot. Blind isn't an excellent footballer. There's an argument that he's not even good enough for United, never mind being excellent. He's not outstanding at anything to be fair. He might be above average or very good at some things, but outstanding/excellent/world class etc just can't see it

bangkok

Nalz wrote: »

Words like excellent are thrown around way too much nowadays, and watered down a lot. Blind isn't an excellent footballer. There's an argument that he's not even good enough for United, never mind being excellent. He's not outstanding at anything to be fair. He might be above average or very good at some things, but outstanding/excellent/world class etc just can't see it

never said anywhere he was world class, doesnt have much pace, but his reading of the game is excellent, his passing is crisp and he is rarely given a roasting by any player

Liam McPoyle

Jones cannot be relied upon unfortunately but I'd still keep him as back up. Rocko and Bailly should be back before too long.

Lindelof has had a difficult time but alot of defenders struggle in a new league, lest we forget Evra and Vidic had a couple of mares early in their tenure.

Whatsisname

Over in Manchester sorting accommodation before the big move, just passed Depoitre in the Trafford Centre, dickhead :pac:

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

Jones cannot be relied upon unfortunately but I'd still keep him as back up. Rocko and Bailly should be back before too long.

Lindelof has had a difficult time but alot of defenders struggle in a new league, lest we forget Evra and Vidic had a couple of mares early in their tenure.

I fully agree. Sure, watching Lindelof's mistakes and living through his adjustment period at United is grim and frustrating. He deserves criticism. However, calls for him to be 'fúcked out' are premature. He, and new players like him, also deserve understanding in those early days at a new club and league. They can't all adjust as quickly as Eric Bailly, if only.

The chap comes highly rated from Benfica and yes, he's looked like a fúcking eejit in defense a few too many times so far, but it's very early for him in his PL career to be definitively judged.

I'm not saying 'Relax everyone, he will be fine', just that we mightn't see his true form and ability in England for a while yet.

bucketybuck

Business Cat wrote: »

Jones cannot be relied upon unfortunately but I'd still keep him as back up.

I don't see the point, with Jones it's as likely that he will sit there as a backup for months but come the time you need him, that's the time he will be injured again...

You just can't rely upon him, we have been here again and again. My inclination would be to sell him now when there would still be a market, I'd be surprised if there weren't a few clubs out there that would consider him worth the risk, its not like good CB's are falling from the trees.

Its the story of this squad to be honest, its the same old things holding us back year after year, the same discussions about the same players, I can't wait till we finally get the majority of them moved on to somewhere else.

Nalz

bangkok wrote: »

never said anywhere he was world class, doesnt have much pace, but his reading of the game is excellent, his passing is crisp and he is rarely given a roasting by any player

never said anywhere that you said he was world class. I'm making the point that world class, outstanding, excellent etc are used too often where they don't apply. The good points you make about Blind are debatable and alone don't make him an excellent footballer.

He's a very good squad player for a top side, at best. Many will say he's not even that.

Adamocovic

Jones has been arguable our best defender this season.

We don't know to the extent of this injury at all.
Jones has countlessly shown more passion when wearing the jersey than most of the guys in the squad, and this year he was complimenting it with good decision making.

I wouldn't be so quick to want him to move on simply because people think with his track record he'll struggle to stay fit. Despite all the injuries he seems to pick up only once in his United career has he ended a season with less than 20 games.

xtal191

Lets hope Matic is pulled from the Serbian squad

https://twitter.com/ManUtdStuff/status/922485997476237312

Mitch Connor

Pereira, shaw, tuanzebe and mctominay not included in the u23 side tonight, would expect all to be in the squad tomorrow night.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

I wouldn't be so quick to want him to move on simply because people think with his track record he'll struggle to stay fit. Despite all the injuries he seems to pick up only once in his United career has he ended a season with less than 20 games.

There's your facts, lies and statistics for you...

Over his United career he averages 20.3 premier league games per season. Thats just appearances, not full games, and that average includes his first few years when Fergie had him at full back and he had his highest games totals. His record in the past three seasons has gotten worse, not better than his first three.

But all that is secondary to the main point. Even if you accepted that 20 games a season was actually a good total its still the pattern of his appearances that is the problem. One of the many problems this squad has is the total lack of consistent line-ups, it really does matter in different areas of the field that players strike up partnerships and gain cohesiveness through consistently playing together and learning each others styles. It is especially important in central defence.

And because of players like Jones we don't have that. We don't have a settled defensive pairing that would allow more freedom to attack, instead we have a revolving door where we pick whatever defender is fit this weekend.

We are never going to get that from Jones, his regular pattern of play 10 games, miss 10 games, play 5 games, miss 5 games etc etc etc means that we are never going to have a settled defence unit built around the same players week in, week out.

We have been having this conversation for 3/4 years at this point, same as we have had about Shaw, Valencia, Young, Mata, Martial, Herrera, Blind and others. All these disappointments that promised so much but are actually limiting our success.

Jones is just another example, we cannot rely on him and if we try to rely on him we will fall short yet again.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

There's your facts, lies and statistics for you...

Over his United career he averages 20.3 premier league games per season. Thats just appearances, not full games, and that average includes his first few years when Fergie had him at full back and he had his highest games totals. His record in the past three seasons has gotten worse, not better than his first three.

But all that is secondary to the main point. Even if you accepted that 20 games a season was actually a good total its still the pattern of his appearances that is the problem. One of the many problems this squad has is the total lack of consistent line-ups, it really does matter in different areas of the field that players strike up partnerships and gain cohesiveness through consistently playing together and learning each others styles. It is especially important in central defence.

And because of players like Jones we don't have that. We don't have a settled defensive pairing that would allow more freedom to attack, instead we have a revolving door where we pick whatever defender is fit this weekend.

We are never going to get that from Jones, his regular pattern of play 10 games, miss 10 games, play 5 games, miss 5 games etc etc etc means that we are never going to have a settled defence unit built around the same players week in, week out.

We have been having this conversation for 3/4 years at this point, same as we have had about Shaw, Valencia, Young, Mata, Martial, Herrera, Blind and others. All these disappointments that promised so much but are actually limiting our success.

Jones is just another example, we cannot rely on him and if we try to rely on him we will fall short yet again.

To be honest buck after the first line I had to push myself to finish your post. Nothing I said was a lie. I never said league games I said a season.

Jones debate clearly divides fans. My point still remains that this season he has been one of our best defenders. We will have to see whether or not the knock leads to him missing significant game time as there has been no confirmation of that. If it is a case of just him missing the cup then to be it's just a knock that's been blown out of proportion based on his history.

Whether or not you believe we can build a defense around him is personal opinion, my opinion remains that I wouldn't be as quick as some fans are to let him go.

Mistakes cost us in the last game but despite injuries to the likes of Shaw, Rojo, Bailly, Valencia and possibly Jones this season we still have been performing well defensively, albeit bigger more attacking teams to come by.

For most of the years after Fergie I have been under the opinion that finishing chances and buildup play is what we have been lacking more than defensive security. Something that we've struggled with during the last 3 games but overall have seen a general improvement this season, something I hope returns soon.

The points you make about consistency with team selection I agree with, but I think the Jones fitness debate is usual used a distraction at times to bigger issues. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say trying to rely on him will cause us to fall short. The club have thrown money at bringing in CB depth, if Jones misses a game we should expect players to be able to fill in, Lindelof being one. It's early days for him though so I'm not quick to right him off just yet.

For me it's about picking the players that help the team the most for that given game, and on recent form when Jones is fit he definitely should be starting. The idea that he might pickup a knock isn't enough for me to come to the conclusion we should just not bother with him.

It's unfortunate for Jones and us that despite his talent, the injury record means that we can't rely on him for a regular spot. He certainly has talent, courage and character. Not enough of our squad possess 2 of those 3 attributes, let alone all 3.

I still think he is good for back-up though. Another injury now doesn't negate the solid performances he has put in so far this season, of which there were quite a few. When he gets injured or dropped from the starting 11, we never hear a peep from him. When he returns to the starting 11, he can look like our best CB in some performances. Once we have a good group of CBs to choose from (which I think we will have once Bailly and Rojo return) and aren't betting the house on Jones, I don't see why we should be shipping him out anytime soon.

An example of someone I would ship out soon if things don't change drastically - Luke Shaw can't stay fit. When he returns to the squad, he has questions over his general fitness, attitude and knowledge of the game. He looks poor in under 23 games, never mind senior appearances. Then you have him and/or his brother running their mouths to the press in an anti-productive manner. Someone like that, I'd be questioning their use to the club.

With Jones, he can be relied upon when fit. We don't need to go back to more than 2 years for his last run of solid performances. And once we don't leave it that he is our main choice for the future, and just use him as the more-than-adequate back-up that he can be, I don't see the need to ship him out.

His horse has likely bolted from the stable in terms of him being half of the next great United CB pairing, but he can still do a good job for us as back-up when fit.