Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

SlickRic

bangkok wrote: »

Of course not, but if our attitude is to go to the likes of liverpool chelsea etc and play for draws and citys is to go and win, we wont be winning the league

Not beating Huddersfield would be a bigger reason for not winning the League than not winning at Chelsea.

hufpc8w3adnk65

astradave wrote: »

Mine is a Spurs fan so thoroughly enjoyed watching on Saturday with him

Mine has season tickets for the Kop and is a die hard Liverpool fan!... I love how my phone auto corrected kop to kip also

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

Of course not, but if our attitude is to go to the likes of liverpool chelsea etc and play for draws and citys is to go and win, we wont be winning the league

Fans can take a 'look at City approach'.

Jose will focus on his team and what he needs them to do.

In big games, Jose always sets up a side to not make mistakes and take advantage of mistakes from others.

City's approach does not and should not matter to him.

Lord TSC

City will be the furthest thing from Jose's mind this weekend.

He will be, rightly, looking towards Chelsea, knowing that losing to them would mean Chelsea are 1 point behind us, and back in the race.

In games like this, it's not about winning the league, it's about shoving other contenders back and not letting them catch up.

he'll want to win, obviously, but he'll do so in a manner where he'll get a draw rather than risk losing. A draw keeps Chelsea down in forth and 4 points behind us. This is one of those "six pointers", and I'd imagine he'd rather maintain the status quo than let Chelsea gain ground on us.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

City will be the furthest thing from Jose's mind this weekend.

He will be, rightly, looking towards Chelsea, knowing that losing to them would mean Chelsea are 1 point behind us, and back in the race.

In games like this, it's not about winning the league, it's about shoving other contenders back and not letting them catch up.

he'll want to win, obviously, but he'll do so in a manner where he'll get a draw rather than risk losing. A draw keeps Chelsea down in forth and 4 points behind us. This is one of those "six pointers", and I'd imagine he'd rather maintain the status quo than let Chelsea gain ground on us.

true but if city beat Arsenal before we play chelsea, we go into the chelsea game 8 points behind city, i would rather have a go and try get 3 points against a chelsea team out of form rather than do what we did at liverpool and settle for a point when we could all see they were there for the taking.

beakerjoe

bangkok wrote: »

true but if city beat Arsenal before we play chelsea, we go into the chelsea game 8 points behind city, i would rather have a go and try get 3 points against a chelsea team out of form rather than do what we did at liverpool and settle for a point when we could all see they were there for the taking.

Its a big risk though and its not worth it.

City will drop points this season against the big clubs. We need to worry about Chelsea first.

City didnt look great against West Brom, sure the won comfortbaly but they mad a lot of mistakes. Its not impossible that they will lose or draw against Arsenal.

Id be happy with a point against Chelsea at the bridge. But Jose playing the way he does might work against them, and a 1 nil win is achievable too playing a cautious game.

beakerjoe

And Bangkok, I know we dont always see eye to eye on things, but I was of your thinking in the Pool match.

I think Pool were there to be tested and we never did. Chelsea however are a stronger 11 and much more dangerous and less vunerable than Pool. Id be backing a similar approach Sunday from Jose.

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

Not sure why your ignoring a valid point.

Our midfield hasn't been playing to its potential and found wanting weve just been crap.

Regardless of how you feel about Pogba theres no way you can honestly say weve seen the best of how this team can perform without him.

I also disagree with a post above that says Pogba has been playing well since Feb 2017 our league form was dire and Pogba was involved in a number of awful midfield performances at the back end of last season.

There is a reason why our midfield won't play to full potential. There isn't a player who can release the ball quickly to wingers or forwards like Pogba can, also there isn't a player who can link midfield and attack properly. We don't have player with Pogba's passing range and his replacement isn't courageous on the ball.

So in simple, yes Pogba is the key player to play to full potential. If we have back up player with good passing range then we would have played better.

Leroy42

Sure the team are not playing the world most exhilarating football at the moment (although they did string a few 4-0's early on) but I really can't understand the negativity for some on here.

YEs we are 5 points off City, but lets be honest, City are playing some of the best football the EPL has seen. They, currently, are on course to break pretty much every record. Utd have started the EPL very strongly, have a very good defence and are currently struggling a bit from having their No1 player removed from the team.

Make no mistake, Pogba is the player that the whole team is built around. Although not in the same level as Pirlo, losing Pogba is the same as Juve losing Pirlo. Add to that the loss of Felliani, which like him or not, he offers a different dynamic to the team forcing the other team to adapt.
We also have Lukaku struggling a bit, not surprising since he is the only recognised forward and his being asked to lead the line on his own every game. The guy is just tired, he needs a break. But even with that is record so far is brilliant, both in scoring and connecting the play.

We just won 4 out of 4 in the CL, basically qualified with 2 games to spare. We have just beaten what many are saying is the best team in the EPL, with the best coach, and the best players, and the best system, and the best replacements, playing the best football (I am using the Sky hyperbole here). Sure we could have lost of drawn the game, but we won it.

Think back to Moyes, or LVG. Or SAF's last year. Sure we aren't playing champagne football, but only last year we finished 6th. And the year before that we failed to get out of the CL group.

We haven't lost at home for 38 games. DDG is back to being the best keeper in the EPL if not the world. Jones has refound his mojo, Smalling seems to be getting some of his back. Pogba, until he got injured, was superb. Rashford is progressing brilliantly. Jose has delivered on everything that we could have asked of him at this stage.

I get that it is frustrating to watch City play, the freedom, the verve, the goals. But Jose has stopped the rot, we are now all looking up the table rather than down. That is not to say that Jose is doing everything right, or even that it will work out in the end, but for now Jose is doing what we all wanted. MU are back to being a force again. Teams are coming to OT knowing that a point is a great result.

Just enjoy it for what it is. A step on the road to getting back to where we want to be. Jose is developing a team with a core of young players, who will falter every now and then. But we are in a pretty good place with plenty of room for improvement.

Headshot

I was a bit sickened last night

Had money on Lukaku to score.

When I saw him stepping up, I was like **** ya but then when I saw Ander and eventually Blind, my heart sank

TheDoc

beakerjoe wrote: »

And Bangkok, I know we dont always see eye to eye on things, but I was of your thinking in the Pool match.

I think Pool were there to be tested and we never did. Chelsea however are a stronger 11 and much more dangerous and less vunerable than Pool. Id be backing a similar approach Sunday from Jose.

I think the problem people and fans have with this approach, myself included, is that it fails to take into consideration the current form of our team, the opposing team and the ramifications of such a performance.

There is clearly some mental and confidence issues when it comes to this method. I don't think its a co-incidence things went a bit to pot performance wise after the Liverpool match.

I think it's very much result based. And that is fine, but at the same time there is something to be said about momentum, building confidence and and form. You go to a game like Anfield, Stamford Bridge, Etihad and play that way and lose, there is just nothing positive from it. Nothing. The team gets hammered, the manager gets hammered and it brings with it just a massive bag of questions and dilemmas.

Players at this level, our clubs level, I would imagine in the majority prefer to play on the front foot, and would enjoy a system and ethos whereby its what "we" are doing, rather then trying to contain. Of course the opponent needs to be catered for, but I'd imagine it would be deflating at times for attacking players in Mourinho teams away from home in big games. Just look at the questions over Lukaku, there is mixed views on how Martial is doing, Mhikitarian. These are the guys that are going to get slated, analysed, the manager blaming them rather than himself (you'll hear him at times say if things dont go well in that setup how we didn't take our chances or create enough etc)

Of course wishing for anything other then what is 100% going to happen on Sunday is wishful thinking, but you'd just wish once in a blue moon he'd grow a pair. Try something new an different. How could you NOT watch Chelsea last night and not want to get at that defence over and over. A club clearly on the ropes a bit, all the noises being negative, go there and really put them under the cosh.

I guess at the heart of it, it's what I'd just like our team to be, and probably people like me feel the same. I can't resonate with this style in the big games, the games I remember from being a kid and growing up, it's the big ones you look forward to, and I just find it frustrating that we play the way we do, basically stinking the place out.

With Mourinho the end justifies the means, I knew that before he came, I know that is the way during. And it's not out of the United way myth, or nostalgia not remembering how things really were under Ferguson, I just at my core, while appreciating there are many ways to skin a cat, have my own preference for how I like to see it.

And I do like counter attacking football, I think counter attacking goals are incredible. How fast they happen, how quickly we can break up the pitch and you can nearly sense its coming before the ball rattles the net. But as a fan of a big club, and we are a massive club, it would be nice every once and while to just crush a rival, really stamp authority down and just breathe absolute confidence throughout.

Even after beating Spurs 1-0, the performance was ropey in parts, and it just shows the fine margins. Draw that game its more of the same negativity, lose and its a disaster. Win and yeah it was good, but no one is calling is a Jose masterclass anymore, I think the reality is setting in with a lot of people.

The main issue I have with the style in away games is if you go a goal down, you are literally ****ed. You are totally scrambling, having to re-adjust, probably sweating to get to half time to make changes, and it can be difficult to switch from soaking and being defensive, to then go on the attack and the front foot.

Chelsea away last season is a pretty good example. Quick goal down and the entire thing is out the window and you can be on a hiding to nothing.

I think the problem with this debate is that there is no real answer, or correct way of thinking, but we all try portray "something" as being incorrect or correct. I think its fine to just not be happy or delighted with the way something is happening, but be satisfied/happy with the result. For some the result is key and that is the only thing that matters. For others the performance is key, with the belief that will reap good results, and for others its a middle ground of wanting good results with decent performances.

I think bangkok does make a point though. While I'd always believe a league is won based on not slipping up to teams beneath, there is the odd edge case where there is such a dominant team in the league, that you actually need to start getting some wins away from home in the big games. As I think Carragher showed on one of the Monday night games, there is actually a lot of points up for grabs in these games now its called the big six, as opposed to nearly being a two horse race historically as a season pans out.

In saying that, fully expect City to peter out and hit a slump, and will be interested to see how they deal with it. So they could well have a little spell with a few surprise draws or losses.

Jayop

The last of the teenagers that was properly in the first team lately was Marcus who just turned 20.

Fosu-Mensah 19 (will be 20 when he's off loan)
Tuanzebe 19 (will be 20 in 2 weeks)
Rashford 20
McTomminey 20
Martial 21
Pereira 21 (loan)
Lindelof 23
Lingard 24

It's still a squad full of youth players, and a lot of former YTS players in or around the first team, but it's weird not having an exciting teenager to brag about. When was the last time we didn't?

But I suppose the big question is who's the next one that we see getting a proper chance like all the others down the years have done? I've not watched **** all yts football the last year or two so I'm really out of the loop. Angel Gomes seems to be the closest.

Mitch Connor

Jayop wrote: »

The last of the teenagers that was properly in the first team lately was Marcus who just turned 20.

Fosu-Mensah 19 (will be 20 when he's off loan)
Tuanzebe 19 (will be 20 in 2 weeks)
Rashford 20
McTomminey 20
Martial 21
Pereira 21 (loan)
Lindelof 23
Lingard 24

It's still a squad full of youth players, and a lot of former YTS players in or around the first team, but it's weird not having an exciting teenager to brag about. When was the last time we didn't?

But I suppose the big question is who's the next one that we see getting a proper chance like all the others down the years have done? I've not watched **** all yts football the last year or two so I'm really out of the loop. Angel Gomes seems to be the closest.

Gribbon or Gomes might make some impact towards the end of the season. Gomes might be the next one to make a breakthrough (if he stays) over the next few years.

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There is a reason why our midfield won't play to full potential. There isn't a player who can release the ball quickly to wingers or forwards like Pogba can, also there isn't a player who can link midfield and attack properly. We don't have player with Pogba's passing range and his replacement isn't courageous on the ball.

So in simple, yes Pogba is the key player to play to full potential. If we have back up player with good passing range then we would have played better.

Your still missing the point. The team can perform better than it has without Pogba. Irregardless of whether Pogba allows the team to play to its full potential.

Do you believe that what weve seen from the midfield over the past 2 months is the best they can produce ?

In Mikhi, Mata, Matic & Herrera we have players who between them can do all of the above.

There iss no point going back and forward if you believe the midfield is hopeless without Pogba. I disagree.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Gribbon or Gomes might make some impact towards the end of the season. Gomes might be the next one to make a breakthrough (if he stays) over the next few years.

That Tahith Chong lad is highly thought off as well but he had a bad injury.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There isn't a player who can release the ball quickly to wingers or forwards like Pogba can, also there isn't a player who can link midfield and attack properly.

Which to me just begs the question, what the **** are Mata and Mkhitaryan supposed to be doing?

The likes of Herrera (and Felliani before him) get slaughtered when our attack looks toothless but for a few years now the likes of Mata has done little but wait for somebody else to come along and make things happen.

I can understand why Jose doesn't play Rashford and Martial at the same time, but dear god I can't wait until we get in another viable option up front, be that Greizmann or whomever.

pjohnson

Roshaun Williams looks very good.

Jayop

pjohnson wrote: »

Roshaun Williams looks very good.

Where's he play PJ? Not familiar with the lad.

sky88

was there anything else on gomes leaving or was it just a slip of the from mata calling him a former team mate

Mkhitaryan has been getting slated. And rightly so.
If any finger pointing needs to happen it should be directly at him.
Been a long time since I witnessed a player be so consistently *****e too.

tbf at least Herreras performances have been slowly improving.
He played decent for the few minutes he came on last night too.

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

Your still missing the point. The team can perform better than it has without Pogba. Irregardless of whether Pogba allows the team to play to its full potential.

Do you believe that what weve seen from the midfield over the past 2 months is the best they can produce ?

In Mikhi, Mata, Matic & Herrera we have players who between them can do all of the above.

There iss no point going back and forward if you believe the midfield is hopeless without Pogba. I disagree.

No they can't. None of them have passing range of Pogba. Our midfield is hopeless without Pogba for the reasons I mentioned. Herrera is more defensive minded player than attacking, same like Matic. The midfield combination won't work which means our attackers like Mata, Mkhitaryan have to drop deep where they can't hurt teams.

Rossi IRL

sky88 wrote: »

was there anything else on gomes leaving or was it just a slip of the from mata calling him a former team mate

He changed it, apparently it was a bad Spanish to English translation

Rossi IRL

Jayop wrote: »

Where's he play PJ? Not familiar with the lad.

Center back

Jayop

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Center back

Tough job to break in there. McTominey is laughing right now with all the injuries. It's really giving him a great chance that Andreas could have gotten. I guess the fact Scott is a giant doesn't hurt with Jose in-charge.

sky88

im not a fan of jose tactics in the bigger games but i can see why he does it and i dont think hes going to change it any time soon so i think we all have to accept that in some way tbh id be way more worried about the performances against Huddersfield and 1st half last night.

What i am interested in seeing against the bigger teams is when we set up defensively and we concede a goal how will he change it when needing to chase the game

secman

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No they can't. None of them have passing range of Pogba. Our midfield is hopeless without Pogba for the reasons I mentioned. Herrera is more defensive minded player than attacking, same like Matic. The midfield combination won't work which means our attackers like Mata, Mkhitaryan have to drop deep where they can't hurt teams.

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

Cookiemunster

secman wrote: »

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

He may not have been outstanding, but he was far from poor. Quite simply when he's not in the team Utd don't create as many scoring opportunities. Both last season and this. Just because nobody could put the ball in the net last season doesn't change that.

jayo26

secman wrote: »

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

He created the most chances for us last season and for his position was one of the most creative players in the league.

As has been said pogba the last free months of last season when he came back from injury and the first few weeks of this season is the pogba the team misses.

Not saying that with him everything will be perfect but we will have someone that can take the pressure off midfield with his ball control and passing and chance creating.

Giggsy11

secman wrote: »

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

No, I'm going to tell your post is wrong.

pjohnson

Jayop wrote: »

Where's he play PJ? Not familiar with the lad.

Very pacey center back. Probably wont get a look in here unless its in a Evans-esque back-up role for a few years. Its somewhat easier for more advanced players to break into Senior teams. Similar Joel Pereira WILL have a good career but can't see it being at United either.

Jayop

pjohnson wrote: »

Very pacey center back. Probably wont get a look in here unless its in a Evans-esque back-up role for a few years. Its somewhat easier for more advanced players to break into Senior teams. Similar Joel Pereira WILL have a good career but can't see it being at United either.

I suppose the difficulty depends on the strength of the players ahead of you in that role. At the minute we're stacked at CB, but Evans, Smalling & Jones (I know 2 were bought but very young) did all get chances even with a great 2 ahead of them in Vidic and Rio. At CB you will have to bide your time, but the chances seem to come. Similarly at midfield now, if Pogba, Carrick and Fellaini were not injured would we be seeing McTominey at all? I doubt it. Now in attack we also should have opportunities for players off the bench, but if we buy Griezmann then those chances will be less frequent.

GK at United is pretty much impossible though regardless of the era for the last 25 years. Even between Schmikes and VDS we were not going to trust a young kid there.

bangkok

secman wrote: »

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

winning league cup, europa league and europa league player of the year, highest stats for forward passes, chances created, distance covered, tackles won, etc etc etc etc

bucketybuck

Its tale as old as time lads, the player that is missing gets better with every game that passes.

Some of you are going to be really puzzled when Pogba comes back and we still throw up a few Liverpool/Huddersfield style performances.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its tale as old as time lads, the player that is missing gets better with every game that passes.

Some of you are going to be really puzzled when Pogba comes back and we still throw up a few Liverpool/Huddersfield style performances.

we have been playing average though since the liverpool game, i think the overall performance of the team will improve when pogba is back

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

we have been playing average though since the liverpool game, i think the overall performance of the team will improve when pogba is back

And we were bagging 4 goals a game without Pogba before the Liverpool game. We were also utter dirt for a lot of the tail-end of last season, with Pogba in the team.

Pogba is important and makes us a better team, but our problems run far deeper than missing that one player.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

And we were bagging 4 goals a game without Pogba before the Liverpool game. We were also utter dirt for a lot of the tail-end of last season, with Pogba in the team.

Pogba is important and makes us a better team, but our problems run far deeper than missing that one player.

im sure you know that jose prioritised the europa league when it was clear we were doing nothing in the league?

we also only scored 4 goals v palace when pogba was missing, he has probably been our best player and best midfielder in england up to the point he got injured

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No they can't. None of them have passing range of Pogba. Our midfield is hopeless without Pogba for the reasons I mentioned. Herrera is more defensive minded player than attacking, same like Matic. The midfield combination won't work which means our attackers like Mata, Mkhitaryan have to drop deep where they can't hurt teams.

I'm surprised I haven't seen any complaints from you about the quality or our squad or José's transfer policy if you believe our midfield is "hopeless" without Pogba.

bangkok

finish top of the group.... our reward, Real Madrid in the last 16 :pac:

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

finish top of the group.... our reward, Real Madrid in the last 16 :pac:

Well if spurs beat them we have beaten spurs so we will become European champions so nothing to feat

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

I'm surprised I haven't seen any complaints from you about the quality or our squad or José's transfer policy if you believe our midfield is "hopeless" without Pogba.

Apologies for not having crystal ball to see Pogba's injury.

beno619

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Apologies for not having crystal ball to see Pogba's injury.

You don't need a crystal ball to assess whether your squad can handle an medium term injury to a first team player.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Apologies for not having crystal ball to see Pogba's injury.

Its not your squad but he is right, if the loss of just one player stops everything in its tracks then that is a serious problem.

Every team has its vital players but injuries happen, suspensions happen, if we don't have anyone else to step up and win us a few games then we will go nowhere.

We won a CL final without Keane and Scholes, now we can't beat a ****e Liverpool because Pogba is missing. That's not good enough.

Lord TSC

Spurs killing Real makes me far happier with our result against them...

J. Marston

Thank Christ Kane was injured last weekend.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Spurs killing Real makes me far happier with our result against them...

Yea Madrid were there for the taking though, not in form, lost to Girona at the weekend, just goes to show what can happen when you attack teams that are vulnerable

Jayop

J. Marston wrote: »

Thank Christ Kane was injured last weekend.

Ali's been their best player tonight. Erikkson has been great too.

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not your squad but he is right, if the loss of just one player stops everything in its tracks then that is a serious problem.

Every team has its vital players but injuries happen, suspensions happen, if we don't have anyone else to step up and win us a few games then we will go nowhere.

We won a CL final without Keane and Scholes, now we can't beat a ****e Liverpool because Pogba is missing. That's not good enough.

I wouldn't say everything stops because pogba is Missing it just had an effect we don't play as fluid the same as take a top player out of most teams it will have an effect.

We are still second in league and going well in all cups I'd be confident to say our points total now in most other seasons would have us top of the league or only a point or two off it..

If city keep doing what they are doing we could finish second and have enough points that would of won it most other seasons as hard to accept as that would be it would be hard to be too harsh on the squad or manager.

Billy86

Cookiemunster wrote: »

secman wrote: »

Where was this wonderful Pogba last season, by and large he had a poor season last year, but now you 're going to tell me he was missing someone else to make him better......

He may not have been outstanding, but he was far from poor. Quite simply when he's not in the team Utd don't create as many scoring opportunities. Both last season and this. Just because nobody could put the ball in the net last season doesn't change that.

And on one hand a miss is a miss is a miss, but my god it felt like he could have had 20 goals last year if the woodwork was 6 inches wider in either direction. That said, as nearly all do he needs someone beside him to be the consistent/dirty work type of guy and matic has been excellent there. Wasn't too hot on us getting him but there was little else around, and I'm more than happy to say I was well off the mark there.

Still, what I'd give for Carrick to be 10 years younger alongside pogba.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Apologies for not having crystal ball to see Pogba's injury.

Its not your squad but he is right, if the loss of just one player stops everything in its tracks then that is a serious problem.

Every team has its vital players but injuries happen, suspensions happen, if we don't have anyone else to step up and win us a few games then we will go nowhere.

We won a CL final without Keane and Scholes, now we can't beat a ****e Liverpool because Pogba is missing. That's not good enough.

Well to be fair we did best Spurs just a few days back without a rake of important players, pogba included.

Liam McPoyle

Lord TSC wrote: »

Spurs killing Real makes me far happier with our result against them...

It's only a matter of time before their squad is picked apart imo.

The level that the likes of Kane and Alli are at in comparison to many of their peers and the relatively small money they are on means they won't stay happy for long.

Unless Spurs SMASH their wage structure it's difficult to see the players staying happy with the riches available at other clubs.