Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Hope this doesnt escalate...


'Man Utd fans want Jose meeting'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11108941

I read something this morning that its a discussion about Jose's constant digs at the home atmosphere, and the group want to get specifics and see how they can be addressed.

Hopefully is mature and tempered, and Jose takes onboard comments made towards him and his comments and barbs against the home crowd.

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

What's crazy is Jose is offering up much better football then the tripe lvg and Moyers did with more success and he is getting way more stick. Media brainwashing of the masses.

The counter argument is its brainwashing by the manager. And there is plenty of people in the media who are staunchly supporting Jose and singing his praises.

I don't think there is a mass of anyone being brainwashed. As a whole I'd imagine everyone is happy and content with how things have been going and are going.

There is some obvious and clear concerns, that I don't see why people get shot down when raising them. I do see some extreme posts and reactions, typically during or after a game, but looks that's football fandom and we are all guilty of the snap decisions or statements that on reflection look ridiculous.

I don't buy into the argument being put around that a lot of the concern is based on City and their performances, I think we should be focusing on ourself and our own squad and I think it's a valid criticism to say the manager isn't extracting the maximum or best from this squad. It was brilliant at the start, blowing teams away late on after a really controlled and dominating performance, but its slid the last while. And some of the same issues appearing that where there last year, and typically issues that have been put against Mourinho his entire career.

I don't think it's a crime, being negative or being ridiculous mentioning them, wondering how they can be fixed and just generally having conversations.

Considering how ludicrous managers tend to be in their outlook and the message they want to send, we'd only be fools if we sat there and took the manager constantly at their word, especially Mourinho, someone who twists the narrative more then most.

While there are some blatant right and wrong things in football, a lot more of it is subjective and down to opinion.

What's crazy is Jose is offering up much better football then the tripe lvg and Moyers did with more success

This is where things can be subjective to a person.

I enjoyed the big games immeasurably more under Van Gaal, where we had some bad defeats, but also great triumphs and results and performances. Big games under Mourinho are an absolute struggle to get through. They are just terrible and we typically stink the place out.

I also think Jose is having issues addressing and fixing the attacking part of our team, similar to what Van Gaal struggled with.

I'm eagerly waiting to see what happens now that the team has slumped, and what the manager does, apart from just throw a player under the bus here and there to try light a rocket up their hole.

While it was an assumption before, somewhat confirmed now by former players under him, he clearly doesn't instigate any planning or rehearsal in terms of attacking play, just trusting the players to do their stuff. Which is fine in one regard, it's good to trust your players, but when things slump off, I'd be looking to see what the manager is trying or doing.

And I don't think its a crime to just highlight a concern relating to something in the team be it a part, a player etc. It's not "being negative" its just talking about the football team?

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I read something this morning that its a discussion about Jose's constant digs at the home atmosphere, and the group want to get specifics and see how they can be addressed.

Hopefully is mature and tempered, and Jose takes onboard comments made towards him and his comments and barbs against the home crowd.

To be honest, i dont even think Jose would go to that meeting

TheDoc

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

What do they want, his autograph?

Jose is winning games. We are also 38 games unbeaten at home.

2nd in the league, Top of the CL group.

what the fuck do they want to discuss?

Probably to ask him his specific concerns with the atmosphere at home, to see if there is something to be addressed?

I don't think it's an excuse for him to taking barbs at the home fans, creating a divide making out the away ones are better. Yeah we know, the away fans are probably best in the country, so vocal and brilliant.

But this is a global team. It's a team with a fanbase worldwide. Not everyone attending wants to, feels comfortable with or feels the need to get tribal and visceral.

Probably also worth pointing out to the manager it is also his and the teams responsibility to ignite the crowd when a lul happens. It cant always be the fans having to pick up the team, it works both ways.

Mokuba

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Moving some of the more vocal fans to J Stand has helped a bit in not just depending on The Stretford End for a bit of noise in the stadium.
When you go to a game it is noticeable the amount of fans who are from far and wide that are just happy to be there and I doubt many know the chants,let alone join in.What really annoys me is the sheer amount of them that spend the entire game clutching their smart phones waiting for a player to get near to where they are sitting in order to get some photos.Its a bit like seeing people at gigs spending the entire time recording it rather than getting involved and enjoying the experience.
Smaller EPL clubs seem to have noisier fans as they are more the local crowd and don't have the global crowds attending home games.
Even Liverpool with their "famous atmosphere" are suffering,a rendition of ynwa before a game can often be followed by long spells of silence.

As you have touched on, this atmosphere is not unique to us. It happens at all of the bigger clubs. A byproduct of success is attracting a wider fan-base and becoming a tourist attraction.

I'm a Season Ticket holder and it can at times get frustrating at home games, the games where you are expected to win without much hassle. Unfortunately it won't get better - people talk about safe standing, but that would go into the Stretford End in all likelihood, and that is the one loud area of the stadium.

Our away fans are the best in the league without question, if you are a ST holder you should try to get to an away game.

Trigger

Jose was asked how much United have grown since they last played Chelsea:

“Maybe Rashford - two centimetres. Scott McTominay - three,”

:pac:

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

What's different apart from city having g close on the best league start in pl history being just above us? So much of what's happening fits into his second season in absolute typical fashion.

Its nothing to do with City, I've barely if ever mentioned them. Its about our team and how we control games, or fail to control them more to the point.

TheDoc

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Moving some of the more vocal fans to J Stand has helped a bit in not just depending on The Stretford End for a bit of noise in the stadium.
When you go to a game it is noticeable the amount of fans who are from far and wide that are just happy to be there and I doubt many know the chants,let alone join in.What really annoys me is the sheer amount of them that spend the entire game clutching their smart phones waiting for a player to get near to where they are sitting in order to get some photos.Its a bit like seeing people at gigs spending the entire time recording it rather than getting involved and enjoying the experience.
Smaller EPL clubs seem to have noisier fans as they are more the local crowd and don't have the global crowds attending home games.
Even Liverpool with their "famous atmosphere" are suffering,a rendition of ynwa before a game can often be followed by long spells of silence.

Yeah that is just a noticeable annoying thing. I've gone to a few concerts lately after not going for years and was a bit "what the **** is this" from people taking selfies and recordings and photos, just a sea of phones in the air.

Seems to be a thing to need to share with people at the time they are at something, rather then just talk about it with friends afterwards like normal people.

In terms of football, I'd say its just a wider reflection of what goes on now. People want to share the experience or event they are at, via social media. I don't do it myself, didn't even bring my phone to OT last year, but don't think its exclusive to football.

Start of your second paragraph is right, mentioned myself before I didn't and don't join in chants when I go to matches as I don't feel comfortable doing it, and I like to just sit there and watch. The odd outcry when I can't help myself, and obviously excitement at a goal, but generally I'll just sit there and watch.

Might make me a **** match going fan or a waste of space, but its just what I feel comfortable with.

bucketybuck

astradave wrote: »

Basically it’s a smaller version of what happened last year, he means we are showing similarities to last year, on a smaller scale though.

At least that’s what I think he means.

Indeed. Look at a summary of our performance last season. Performance, not results by the way.

We started very well, two thirds of the season saw some brilliant attacking football and very cohesive play. Then we stumbled, the manager and the team retreated within itself and we started to look disjointed, the attacking play disappeared, and the last third of the season was marked by overly cautious, defensive play that supposedly was driven by the loss of key men and a lack of faith in the remaining players to get the job done by playing their own game.

The final third of last season saw some awful football, our league form went into the toilet and we stumbled over the line in the cups. I'm delighted with those cups, but they shouldn't blind us to how badly we finished the season.

Back to today. Ten league games and various cup games completed. We started brilliantly and the first 7/8 games saw some great attacking football and cohesive play. Then we put the brakes on, the attacking play disappeared and we looked disjointed as **** against some poor teams. Recent games have seen cautious, defensive play supposedly driven by the loss of Pogba and the remaining players unable to get the job done in his absence.

Its last season on a smaller scale, and I'm not saying its the end of days but here is why people should take note of the similarities: When our form nose dived at the end of last season, we did not get it back.

J. Marston

Young recalled to the England squad. Smalling dropped.

Well earned by Young.

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

Young recalled to the England squad. Smalling dropped.

Well earned by Young.

Smalling dropped when he has been excellent for united. Makes sense

J. Marston

bangkok wrote: »

Smalling dropped when he has been excellent for united. Makes sense

Not good enough with the ball, apparently.

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/status/926088391623573509

beakerjoe

J. Marston wrote: »

Not good enough with the ball, apparently.

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/status/926088391623573509

I cant argue with Southgate. Smalling hasnt been excellent this season. Improved a bit but Ive always found him lacking.

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

Not good enough with the ball, apparently.

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/status/926088391623573509

What an insult!!!

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

Indeed. Look at a summary of our performance last season. Performance, not results by the way.

We started very well, two thirds of the season saw some brilliant attacking football and very cohesive play. Then we stumbled, the manager and the team retreated within itself and we started to look disjointed, the attacking play disappeared, and the last third of the season was marked by overly cautious, defensive play that supposedly was driven by the loss of key men and a lack of faith in the remaining players to get the job done by playing their own game.

The final third of last season saw some awful football, our league form went into the toilet and we stumbled over the line in the cups. I'm delighted with those cups, but they shouldn't blind us to how badly we finished the season.

Back to today. Ten league games and various cup games completed. We started brilliantly and the first 7/8 games saw some great attacking football and cohesive play. Then we put the brakes on, the attacking play disappeared and we looked disjointed as **** against some poor teams. Recent games have seen cautious, defensive play supposedly driven by the loss of Pogba and the remaining players unable to get the job done in his absence.

Its last season on a smaller scale, and I'm not saying its the end of days but here is why people should take note of the similarities: When our form nose dived at the end of last season, we did not get it back.

Do you believe that this is all on Mourinho?

bangkok

beakerjoe wrote: »

I cant argue with Southgate. Smalling hasnt been excellent this season. Improved a bit but Ive always found him lacking.

Still a decent defender but hey thats englands choice, they are poor enough side anyway wouldnt make much of a difference

PhlegmyMoses

One thing we can all agree on though, thank **** we got Matic and not Bakayoko. Lots of people clamouring for Bakayoko in the summer but he hasn't been great so far. He will probably come good at some point but it was nice to get a finished article rather than another work in progress for once.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah that is just a noticeable annoying thing. I've gone to a few concerts lately after not going for years and was a bit "what the **** is this" from people taking selfies and recordings and photos, just a sea of phones in the air.

Seems to be a thing to need to share with people at the time they are at something, rather then just talk about it with friends afterwards like normal people.

In terms of football, I'd say its just a wider reflection of what goes on now. People want to share the experience or event they are at, via social media. I don't do it myself, didn't even bring my phone to OT last year, but don't think its exclusive to football.

I used to be like that, and then realised I was utterly wasting the experiences of going to shows, matches etc, so I could have pictures and videos of the match to remember it....which seemed redundant.

So now, I go and just enjoy it. Heading off to WWE now, no cameras or anything. Just want to have fun

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Indeed. Look at a summary of our performance last season. Performance, not results by the way.

We started very well, two thirds of the season saw some brilliant attacking football and very cohesive play. Then we stumbled, the manager and the team retreated within itself and we started to look disjointed, the attacking play disappeared, and the last third of the season was marked by overly cautious, defensive play that supposedly was driven by the loss of key men and a lack of faith in the remaining players to get the job done by playing their own game.

The final third of last season saw some awful football, our league form went into the toilet and we stumbled over the line in the cups. I'm delighted with those cups, but they shouldn't blind us to how badly we finished the season.

Back to today. Ten league games and various cup games completed. We started brilliantly and the first 7/8 games saw some great attacking football and cohesive play. Then we put the brakes on, the attacking play disappeared and we looked disjointed as **** against some poor teams. Recent games have seen cautious, defensive play supposedly driven by the loss of Pogba and the remaining players unable to get the job done in his absence.

Its last season on a smaller scale, and I'm not saying its the end of days but here is why people should take note of the similarities: When our form nose dived at the end of last season, we did not get it back.

You are comparing last years squad to this years squad.
A squad that did not contain Matic or Lukaku. So the squad was significantly weaker last season in comparison to now.
Hardly anybody else was scoring bar Ibrahimovich last season even though the chances were being gifted on a plate by Pogba.

This year we stumbled in line with the loss of Pogba yes.
And yes the players supposed to be covering are not getting the job done.
If you cannot acknowledge that poor individual performances are the contributing factor to this then no hope in trying to continuously explain it to you.

HONKEY TONK

bangkok wrote: »

Still a decent defender but hey thats englands choice, they are poor enough side anyway wouldnt make much of a difference

IMO Smalling has been caught ball watching too many times this season.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

What an insult!!!

Is it an insult if it’s the truth?

He is a decent defender but can be very headless on the ball.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Do you believe that this is all on Mourinho?

Id take a strong guess and say yes he does because I must have asked him about 10 times in the last month to address the player performances and he won't outright answer it.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Smalling dropped when he has been excellent for united. Makes sense

It's great for us but to suggest Smalling cannot play out from the back is a bit mad.
It's one of his best attributes IMO.

Trigger

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One thing we can all agree on though, thank **** we got Matic and not Bakayoko. Lots of people clamouring for Bakayoko in the summer but he hasn't been great so far. He will probably come good at some point but it was nice to get a finished article rather than another work in progress for once.

Bakayoko is class





On Fifa 18

PhlegmyMoses

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Id take a strong guess and say yes he does because I must have asked him about 10 times in the last month to address the player performances and he won't outright answer it.

I mean, that's the nuts and bolts of the argument. Do we think that another manager could come in and get this group of players playing the way we want. If the answer is yes, then Mourinho out is the narrative. If the answer is no, then we have to acknowledge that some players have been below par and the manager has done well to get the results he has.

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Do you believe that this is all on Mourinho?

The root cause is a core of weak characters in the squad but I do not like Mourinhos reaction to it at all. He compensates by going more cautious than he needs to when it would be better to manage the players back to a higher performance level.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

The root cause is a core of weak characters in the squad but I do not like Mourinhos reaction to it at all. He compensates by going more cautious than he needs to when it would be better to manage the players back to a higher performance level.

But what's more important to Jose, getting results or risk taking with poor performing players and a squad that is currently weakened and ending up losing?
If you know how Jose has worked for years then answer is obvious.

J. Marston

beakerjoe wrote: »

I cant argue with Southgate. Smalling hasnt been excellent this season. Improved a bit but Ive always found him lacking.

He hasn't been excellent, no, but excellence isn't the bar for England's backline.

Smalling has been decent and part of a pretty miserly United defence so far this season and I think that's plenty for a call up.

But if Southgate deems passing/composure on the ball over actual defending, then good luck with that.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Id take a strong guess and say yes he does because I must have asked him about 10 times in the last month to address the player performances and he won't outright answer it.

What an utter crock of ****.

bucketybuck wrote: »

You have asked me multiple times? Directly?

I'm not sure I could have posted any more of my opinions on our players to be honest, its only a few months since people had an issue with me saying that we needed to ship another 6/7 of them out the door. I have repeatedly pointed out that Martial goes missing in games, that Mata is a weak character who never stepped up and led the team during the dark Moyes/Van Gaal days. That Lingard will never be more than solid and that Young has next to zero end product. That Valencia ****s up our attacking proficiency on the right and that we have nothing from the left. That Mkhitaryan is just another Mata, waiting for somebody else to do the heavy lifting. That Rashford is a long way from being a finished article and still doesn't have the productivity that we need from or first team attackers.

No, I am well aware of the deficiencies in our squad and I have spoken of them dozens of times. I don't need to point out the obvious when it came to that game. I'd rather ask why the manager created a situation where those weak characters who struggle to adapt and take control of games had to adapt their game and then couldn't get control back.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

But what's more important to Jose, getting results or risk taking with poor performing players and a squad that is currently weakened and ending up losing?
If you know how Jose has worked for years then answer is obvious.

Its not risk taking for a manager to get his players performing, its his job. And our squad might be weakened but it isn't weak, it remains stronger than any of the teams we have played to this point.

Of course, you probably won't read this one either.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

What an utter crock of ****.

So you are blaming Jose. Grand.
That absolves those poor performing players then :rolleyes:

Jayop

Of those players you mentioned only Mkhi was brought in by this manager.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

Of those players you mentioned only Mkhi was brought in by this manager.

And?

Presser

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

And?

And....How many players did you think it possible to bring into the team in such a short space of time? You basically wanted 10 new first team players by the looks of the players you point out as not being good enough on top of what he's already introduced.

I'm quite certain he wanted another winger or a full back given he repeatedly mentioned one player he didn't get all summer. You simply can't bring in a full new team in one swoop and expect continuity. As well as that while rich, it's not a bottomless pit of money.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

And....How many players did you think it possible to bring into the team in such a short space of time? You basically wanted 10 new first team players by the looks of the players you point out as not being good enough on top of what he's already introduced.

I'm quite certain he wanted another winger or a full back given he repeatedly mentioned one player he didn't get all summer. You simply can't bring in a full new team in one swoop and expect continuity. As well as that while rich, it's not a bottomless pit of money.

But that wasn't the question I was asked.

beakerjoe

Jayop wrote: »

And....How many players did you think it possible to bring into the team in such a short space of time? You basically wanted 10 new first team players by the looks of the players you point out as not being good enough on top of what he's already introduced.

I'm quite certain he wanted another winger or a full back given he repeatedly mentioned one player he didn't get all summer. You simply can't bring in a full new team in one swoop and expect continuity. As well as that while rich, it's not a bottomless pit of money.

With Atlectico looking good to go out of the Champions League, maybe Jose will get another addition to his squad in Jan?

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Is it an insult if it’s the truth?

He is a decent defender but can be very headless on the ball.

Stuff like that can stay behind closed doors if thats what the manager thinks, no need for it to go through the rags.

HONKEY TONK

Jose team signings look excellent additions besides 1

Pogba
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Ibrahimovic
Lukaku
Matic
Lindelöf :mad:

Others in the team I think fit in here are

Rashford
Martial
de Gea
Fellaini
Rojo
McTominay
Romero:)

If any of the remaining players were replaced I wouldn't bat an eyelid

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

But that wasn't the question I was asked.

But it's vitally important if you recognise that there's weakness in the squad to then allow the manager a bit o slack in regards to the state of play. The two aren't and can't be mutually exclusive but have to be seen as parts of the whole. Jose has drastically improved the team. Won 2 trophies last season, is 2nd in the league this season, pissed through our CL group, won 2 League cup games handy. This is all despite the major weaknesses that you yourself can see. Add to that the fact that 2/3 of our midfield is now out injured and the player who's supposed to be our most creative attacker is having a shocker the last /10 games then you need to chill.

I've no doubt that we'll go to the market in January. Hopefully that's Griezmann. That will improve things no end up top. Then we need to really look at both full back positions in the summer. Honestly, I feel that if we were to add to those three positions we'd be at full speed again and would be a major force both in Europe and at home.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Stuff like that can stay behind closed doors if thats what the manager thinks, no need for it to go through the rags.

It’s England though, and Southgate is a bit of a dope

Jayop

Honkey Tonk I'd still be holding out some hope for Lindelof. He's very young and while he's made some really bad errors I'd not write him off just yet.

jayo26

All I can pick up from all this crap talk is that we were not good enough last season if you ignore the cup wins and we are of good enough this season if you ignore our league position.

So basically if you ignore the things you play football for then what's the point in us watching it.....

We have had 3 bad results this year that's the be all and end all of it well show me any team that don't have bad games.

Some sluggish performances but let's ignore that out best player for the first 7 games is out injured it's something else wrong jose is falling out with the players or pushing for a move to France.




Choo Choo fukers.

pjohnson

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One thing we can all agree on though, thank **** we got Matic and not Bakayoko. Lots of people clamouring for Bakayoko in the summer but he hasn't been great so far. He will probably come good at some point but it was nice to get a finished article rather than another work in progress for once.

Renato Sanches was another bullet dodged

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

It’s England though, and Southgate is a bit of a dope

Mourinho did it with luke shaw as well. Saying he had to talk him through a game. No need for it

pjohnson

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Mkhitaryan

I almost dunno if I'd give Mkhi a smiley. I've found him quite frustrating overall. He can be great but he can be bloody kak. Last year in Europe he was great but the league was blotchy. This year great start but currently blotchy. If we do get Greizmann for RW I wouldnt be against moving Mkhi on and putting Mata central. Mata's consistency makes him more valuble imo, and its not like Mkhi is a youngster who'll become consistent.

Cantona's Collars

Good man Keano.

"My only concern about Mourinho is that he seems to be distracted by the so-called critics out there," Keane said on ITV. "He is probably paid eight, nine or ten million pounds a year so focus on your own job. Rise above that. He should be better than that, but he seems to be easily upset.
"Shut up and get on with your job. You are getting very well paid for it."

Keane also showed his allegiance to United with digs at Pep Guardiola's formidable Manchester City and Jurgen Klopp's lagging Liverpool.
"My only concern for City is that I still think it is in their DNA as a club to mess things up," Keane sniped. "They have previous where we have got carried away with City, but they will take some stopping this year."
It’s hard to figure out Liverpool at the moment," Keane added. "It’s hard to get excited about them. For me they are going nowhere fast and come the end of the season when the prizes are being handed out Liverpool will be nowhere near.

"I think if they were playing in my back garden I wouldn’t watch them. Let's be honest they are going nowhere."

beakerjoe

pjohnson wrote: »

Renato Sanches was another bullet dodged

This thread had plenty of people thinking we should get him at OT, hes just simply not mentally ready for the big stage. Hyped to the max with no good performances since joing Bayern. Out of his depth.

Jayop

Even when Mkhi was hitting great numbers at the start of the season I still thought he was generally fairly poor. He seemed to be able to be involved with one or two really good piece of play in a game that resulted in an assist or a goal. Probably had similar numbers to someone like DeBreune but he was miles away from actual overall contribution.

pjohnson

beakerjoe wrote: »

This thread had plenty of people thinking we should get him at OT, hes just simply not mentally ready for the big stage. Hyped to the max with no good performances since joing Bayern. Out of his depth.

That was mostly the dark times of the pre-Matic days......that was a very odd time for us.