Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

S.M.B.

pjohnson wrote: »

Arsebollocks. Excel code entered wrong way around. :pac:

Not to worry, the underlying stats seemed solid. Still a little unfortunate when it preceeded a statement as strong as "Can we agree that if people are gunna try to use statistics can they at least try to use them competently?" :pac:

I agree with your stance 100% though and put it down to Rashfords technique. Surprised José hasn't stepped in to mix it up a little. They're not the worst stats either so not the crux of our problems at the moment.

dfx-

limnam wrote: »

We're missing our strongest mid. Pogba

Our top goal scorer of last season Ibra

and one of our best defenders of last year. Rojo

I'm making the point to the city love-in if city lost the same, would they be where they're now?

Unlikely.

I can't believe Ibrahimovic missing being used as a reason for trouble upfront. United were not a free-flowing irresistable attack last season with him either.

pjohnson

S.M.B. wrote: »

Not to worry, the underlying stats seemed solid. Still a little unfortunate when it preceeded a statement as strong as "Can we agree that if people are gunna try to use statistics can they at least try to use them competently?" :pac:

I agree with your stance 100% though and put it down to Rashfords technique. Surprised José hasn't stepped in to mix it up a little. They're not the worst stats either so not the crux of our problems at the moment.

Updated correctly now. Divided corners by goals the last time by using A2 instead of A3 in Excel :pac: result still the same. We dont convert our corners. Certainly not the best in the league.


Team Goals (Corners) Conversion %

Stoke 5 (46) 10.87 %
Watford 5 (49) 10.2%
Leicester 5 (50) 10%
United 6 (73) 8.22%
Arsenal 5 (67) 7.46%
Chelsea 4 (58) 6.90%
Tottenham 5 (80) 6.25%
City 4 (73) 5.48%

limnam

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Both of those players are more in form than Mkhitaryan.

Martial has been pulled off because he was shocking.
In games he's started he's been rubbish and lingard not mch better.
Martial's form is coming off the bench scoring against tired teams.

He was used in the same way today

I'm going to play some COD.

listening to 12yr old over weight american kids seems more palatable than this "discussion"

Potential Underachiever

People must be souring on Lukaku already if there is calls for Ibra to come and be the saviour.

I know he scored at a good rate early doors but for far too many games he just looks like a clumsy donkey up front, I think Utd fans know deep down he is not the future of the club and yous have spunked alot of money on him. Can you honestly see yourselves winning leagues or a CL with Lukaku as the main focal point, I can't. Just not enough quality in his game.

Thorts?

bangkok

Sure i will forget about city now, they are out of sight, spurs level points with us, chelsea 1 behind, liverpool and arsenal only 4 behind. Like it or not we are in a fight for top 4

S.M.B.

Morata had a decent game and saw a lot more of the ball than Lukaku. However, I think if you swapped both players at half time Morata would have struggled and Lukaku could have grabbed a few. Problems lie elsewhere.

xtal191

I cant get over how utterly ****e Mkhitaryan and Herrera have been for the past few weeks.

Lord TSC

S.M.B. wrote: »

Morata had a decent game and saw a lot more of the ball than Lukaku. However, I think if you swapped both players at half time Morata would have struggled and Lukaku could have grabbed a few. Problems lie elsewhere.

Morata had the service today. His goal was as much about the awesome pass as it was himself.

Lukaku is being starved by a non-existant midfield.

Young - Herrera - Mkhi - Valencia

...are providing zero chances. No striker would do well with those four behind them at the moment...

PhlegmyMoses

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

People must be souring on Lukaku already if there is calls for Ibra to come and be the saviour.

I know he scored at a good rate early doors but for far too many games he just looks like a clumsy donkey up front, I think Utd fans know deep down he is not the future of the club and yous have spunked alot of money on him. Can you honestly see yourselves winning leagues or a CL with Lukaku as the main focal point, I can't. Just not enough quality in his game.

Thorts?

My thoughts are that your opinions are not honest so it is hard to take you seriously. Lazy analysis like "clumsy donkey" and "deep down United fans know" lead me to this conclusion.

Lord TSC

xtal191 wrote: »

I cant get over how utterly ****e Mkhitaryan and Herrera have been for the past few weeks.

Mkhi doesn't shock me. He's the same this season as he was last. He started better this season, but the reality is his time with us has been far more negatives than positives.

Herrera bugs me; he won our POTY last year, and this year has been toxic. He's providing next to nothing. Worse, he constantly takes stupid shots from outside the box like a kiddy Fifa player....

Rekop dog

pjohnson wrote: »

Updated correctly now. Divided corners by goals the last time by using A2 instead of A3 in Excel :pac: result still the same. We dont convert our corners. Certainly not the best in the league.


Team Goals (Corners) Conversion %

Stoke 5 (46) 10.87 %
Watford 5 (49) 10.2%
Leicester 5 (50) 10%
United 6 (73) 8.22%
Arsenal 5 (67) 7.46%
Chelsea 4 (58) 6.90%
Tottenham 5 (80) 6.25%
City 4 (73) 5.48%

You wouldn't base top scorer in the league on conversion rate.

I never said they were the best. I took issue with you saying they were awful at set pieces. The most set pieces scored and 4th highest conversion rate doesn't equate to *awful* in any mans language. They've only conceded 1 as well so it's solid numbers all around.

Just admit you were misinformed and chalk it off to post loss ranting.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Sure i will forget about city now, they are out of sight, spurs level points with us, chelsea 1 behind, liverpool and arsenal only 4 behind. Like it or not we are in a fight for top 4

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Morata had the service today. His goal was as much about the awesome pass as it was himself.

Lukaku is being starved by a non-existant midfield.

Young - Herrera - Mkhi - Valencia

...are providing zero chances. No striker would do well with those four behind them at the moment...

When you have Hazard in the team to scatter a defence it makes it easier. United were badly organised as well. Chelsea were very good in defence and midfield. Only looked poor when they retreated to hold the lead.

castletownman

Weekend of a United win and a Liverpool loss: United are great, lets all laugh at Liverpool lolololol.

Weekend of a United loss and City once again passing a test: shhhh....can't talk about any other team.

Jose would be proud of the siege mentality

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Meh, its the truth unfortunately.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Meh, its the truth unfortunately.

It sure is mate.

PhlegmyMoses

No matches now until November 18th is ****e

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Disappointing. I hate losin to Chelsea even if it's the Bridge.. Know the usual suspects will be along soon enough to say the sky is falling though.

It's a character problem on the field. You see the likes of Mkhi not trying, Herrera having another dreadful game, defence leaving massive gaps in the first half.

Our midfield is such a disaster zone at the moment...

General thoughts...

CM is getting overrun in recent games. However, I really don't think that Herrera was awful today, and that's more of a worry than an endorsement for the future. He made two failed passes I can think of but did lots of solid work which 'awful' neglects. It's just that he's not playing in top form at the moment in a CM that is threadbare, and to be honest even if he was I don't think it would make much positive difference to a two man CM in these big games. I do like Herrera, but it's also possible that he at his best is not good enough for our strongest first 11, definitely not in a CM two, and we may have to look elsewhere for first team quality next Summer.

Also, the CM is quite poor, but I really don't think we're helping ourselves with a CM two. Especially when their nearest attacking and relief outlet (Mkhi) has turned into a poor NPC from a 16-bit game.

Even though Fellaini was looking very rusty and error prone, I was still happy to see him on the pitch - once those errors didn't lead to a goal. We needed three in the middle to at least try to stabilise things if not progress them. However, it seemed to be doing fúck-all for us until Conte brought off Fabregas, then eventually Hazard. Sure there are things we did to try to stifle the threat from those players, but no matter what we did or didn't do, they played scary well today.

On the character and ability front, I can afford the likes of Herrera some patience. Someone like Mkhi though, a prime example of 'lack of character' with whom my patience is dwindling. Without the goals and assists, there is nothing. He is a ghost on the pitch. Character? Absolutely none. Grit and determination? Nope. If the ball comes his way, he'll make an attempt to turn a bit of play. Very soon though, you're likely to see him on the turf pulling his socks up. And not because he was hard done by in a cynical challenge after some great work, but because he stumbled or went down after he lost possession with a poor first touch. I don't want to see him sold and haven't given up on him, not yet, but something has to change with him soon. It's not like he hasn't been given the chances to turn it around.

As for the game - It was nice to see a positive, attacking start from us. The manager didn't go there just for a draw and a point. When the team went the goal down, the substitutions were overall positive. However, even trying to minimise red bias, I'd say we were in that game for about 35 minutes in total. 25 at the start, then 10 at the end when Chelsea took their two best players off and with them, their foot off the gas. We were disjointed at times, sure, and the threadbare CM doesn't help us one bit, but too often there just seemed to be a gulf in ability between the two teams.

It's going to be a long two weeks until the league resumes. Maybe that's a good thing, we need players back in the first team, and for depth to the squad. Pogba, Fellaini, Carrick will provide options once again to try to bolster the CM. Also, Pogba's creative ability is hard to deny. Rojo will mean that Jones or Smalling can be rotated rather than run into another injury soon. Sure we had Lindelof there to deputise, but Rojo is more proven and therefore reliable to the team. It will be necessary to get these players back, but I don't think that alone will solve all of our problems over (fort)night.

The sky isn't falling, not outside my window, but it is disappointing that our points haul is. We're now much closer to a Top 4 race than a title-challenge, and I said in the aftermath of the Liverpool game that could be a likely reality by the end of this run of games. A draw today and 5/9 points vs Pool/Spurs/Chelsea wouldn't have been a bad return at all for our title credentials. 4/9 from those is bad though, 4/12 including the Huddersfield game is unforeseen for me and a cause for concern. Fúcking Huddersfield.

Never mind the City game coming up in the next five weeks, I'd honestly worry about this current team getting a point away to Watford, which comes before the derby. We've gotten some tough fixtures out of the way over the last few weeks, but the run coming up after the break doesn't fill me with confidence at the moment.

Liverpool were there for the taking at Anfield a few weeks ago but we possibly showed them too much respect and the players shít the bed (Herrera was truly awful there). Spurs was a decent performance where either team could have nicked it and there was no great plaudits for anyone, and no major worries. Today though, we got played off the park for the most part even though we showed up to try to play some football. That hurts and concerns me for our title aspirations in equal measure. For Top 4, we should be alright, but honestly I was hoping for a title challenge this season.

Finally, I fúcking despise Stamford Bridge.

dfx-

dfx- wrote: »

I can't believe Ibrahimovic missing being used as a reason for trouble upfront. United were not a free-flowing irresistable attack last season with him either.

His hold up play and linking up with players is much better then Lukakau but he is obviously slower in both speed and ability to get shots away. The problem last year was he was part of a plan A and a plan B so played way too many minutes for a 35 year old. I could see him being used in our bigger games going forward when we are playing more defensively with Lukakau playing all the rest. Not saying he is a solution but he is deffo another option we will have that will improve us on the counter attack in these games.

People keep referring back to last season as some sort of proof. When it's clear we are a better functioning unit this season so it would seem to be our best players from last season should at least maintain their levels

jayo26

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

No matches now until November 18th is ****e

Woop I'll be jayo37 that day

Potential Underachiever

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

My thoughts are that your opinions are not honest so it is hard to take you seriously. Lazy analysis like "clumsy donkey" and "deep down United fans know" lead me to this conclusion.

The elite strikers can feed off scraps that's the difference they can make something happen themselves, pull a rabbit out of the hat so to speak. While Lukaku is a very good striker he's just not going to drag Utd to titles and considering the money spent and Utd's seemingly unlimited budget I think they could and should've been able to attract a striker from a level above Lukaku.

Thorts?

DM_7

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

The elite strikers can feed off scraps that's the difference they can make something happen themselves, pull a rabbit out of the hat so to speak. While Lukaku is a very good striker he's just not going to drag Utd to titles and considering the money spent and Utd's seemingly unlimited budget I think they could and should've been able to attract a striker from a level above Lukaku.

Thorts?

Go fish in another lake?

Lithium93_

bangkok wrote: »

Meh, its the truth unfortunately.

Well then stop it with the constant reminders, we all have 2 eyes and can see for ourselves how good City are, we don't need you telling us the damned obvious whenever the opportunity presents itself.

pjohnson

Rekop dog wrote: »

You wouldn't base top scorer in the league on conversion rate.

I never said they were the best. I took issue with you saying they were awful at set pieces. The most set pieces scored and 4th highest conversion rate doesn't equate to *awful* in any mans language. They've only conceded 1 as well so it's solid numbers all around.

Just admit you were misinformed and chalk it off to post loss ranting.

It shows effectiveness and how clinical a side is. I clearly showed I wasnt misinformed. For the tallest team in the league we should be much more efficient. We arent the 4th tallest and its a small sample size so could be much lower than 4th. Try fishing elsewhere.

Been saying it for months now but pray Pogba gets fit soon
I actually think the way things are going for Miki this form will continue until Pogba is back in the side
Miki just doesn't do enough, his workrate is so poor
I'm so disappointed as he was so good in the bundisliga but again only from an attacking sense
Herrera is gone to **** too, i can't get my head around it
Matic doing the work of 3
Buzzkill

Lord TSC

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

No matches now until November 18th is ****e

Ugh. So we've got two whole weeks of the negativity then?

Lithium93_

jayo26 wrote: »

Woop I'll be jayo37 that day

Wishing you an early Happy Birthday

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

Woop I'll be jayo37 that day

Ah jaysus another Jayo?

sky88

Is there any news when pogba is back?

bangkok

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well then stop it with the constant reminders, we all have 2 eyes and can see for ourselves how good City are, we don't need you telling us the damned obvious whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Likewise so when liverpool lose i suppose or is that ok?

bangkok

sky88 wrote: »

Is there any news when pogba is back?

I would say he is back for next league game

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Likewise so when liverpool lose i suppose or is that ok?

Does any poster here constantly rave about Liverpool the way you are doing about city. NO...

People will talk about results of other teams of course but not constantly we get it you think city are great you have made your point numerous times in numerous different ways. If you want to talk about city constantly use their thread.

bangkok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does any poster here constantly rave about Liverpool the way you are doing about city. NO...

People will talk about results of other teams of course but not constantly we get it you think city are great you have made your point numerous times in numerous different ways. If you want to talk about city constantly use their thread.

Constantly no i dont. I may mention them when they have a great result. I actually dont see the issue. They are/were our title rivals

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Imagine the threads being populated it that was Jose that walked off without shaking Contes hand and not the other way round :pac:

So he didn't shake his hand? Was wondering if I missed it, I just saw Jose greeting the Chelsea staff as Johnny Tapia walked away. What a child.

adox wrote: »

He wouldn’t have made any difference.

Honestly, he might have. Early in the first half, there was a spell where we threatened and someone like Mata could have unlocked the Chelsea defense.

But never mind Mata, point is that at this stage Mkhi is so poor that Mata, Lingard, Martial/Rashford show-horned in there could realistically be better. To go to an extreme - It's kinda like playing with 10 men when Mkhi is in such rancid form. The last attacking player who displayed form so poor at the club, in my memory and opinion, was Memphis.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Lol fact
Join me in killing Nazis to help with the pain

I've never played one Call of Duty game. Lack of a decent internet connection for years prevented me from getting into online gaming. Likewise, FIFA Ultimate Team is unfortunately lost on me. I am however considering a replay of The Witcher 3, starting tonight maybe. I need to slay some kind of beast, be it with sword or gun.

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So he didn't shake his hand? Was wondering if I missed it, I just saw Jose greeting the Chelsea staff as Johnny Tapia walked away. What a child.



Honestly, he might have. Early in the first half, there was a spell where we threatened and someone like Mata could have unlocked the Chelsea defense.

But never mind Mata, point is that at this stage Mkhi is so poor that Mata, Lingard, Martial/Rashford show-horned in there could realistically be better. To go to an extreme - It's kinda like playing with 10 men when Mkhi is in such rancid form. The last attacking player who displayed form so poor at the club, in my memory and opinion, was Memphis.



I've never played one Call of Duty game. Lack of a decent internet connection for years prevented me from getting into online gaming. Likewise, FIFA Ultimate Team is unfortunately lost on me. I am however considering a replay of The Witcher 3, starting tonight maybe. I need to slay some kind of beast, be it with sword or gun.

You are missing out on 2 great games.. went on a rampage after the match and feel much better after killing some feckers on Cod, I imagine them all to be Chelsea/pool fans.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

You are missing out on 2 great games.. went on a rampage after the match and feel much better after killing some feckers on Cod, I imagine them all to be Chelsea/pool fans.

Will take that into consideration, now that I've got decent fibre BB. I played FPS games before, in single player mode, great craic. I'm almost scared to go down the online rabbit hole.

To bring this even more off-topic, I hear that the City players are some of the finest COD players and just boss it in their downtime.

Lithium93_

DOOM 2016 is a damn good game if anyone's interested.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

You are missing out on 2 great games.. went on a rampage after the match and feel much better after killing some feckers on Cod, I imagine them all to be bangkok.

Fyp

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Will take that into consideration, now that I've got decent fibre BB. I played FPS games before, in single player mode, great craic. I'm almost scared to go down the online rabbit hole.

To bring this even more off-topic, I hear that the City players are some of the finest COD players and just boss it in their downtime.

Lvg plays cod too he is a camper he just lies down on the ground where he gets placed on the map.

HigginsJ

As a stand alone today's game wasnt a disaster, Chelsea were the better side & deserved the win but we weren't a million miles away & if Rashford doesn't bottle the header you never know.

Mkhi is an utter puzzle at this stage, he is simplt terrible right now. He is a liability to the whole team & brings nothing positive. I think some Jose tough love is due now.

Matic is wonderful, our best player this year by a considerable distance. Once we get Pogback I think things will pick up.

I love Young & Valenica but their limitations are too much at this point, City have moved the bar a huge amount & everyone else has to catch up. The likes of these guys really have no place at that level.

Lots of doom & gloom of late but we are still 2nd & if we can fix the link between midfield & Lukaku/Rasford/Martial I think we can easily go on a good run.

Lord TSC

The fact we've gotten past Spurs, Pool and Chelsea and, despite results, are still second in the league is a small silver lining. Not so much in terms of coming first, mind, but I'll take positives where I can

bucketybuck

HigginsJ wrote: »

Lots of doom & gloom of late but we are still 2nd & if we can fix the link between midfield & Lukaku/Rasford/Martial I think we can easily go on a good run.

Not much to say about the match, there was nothing surprising there and nothing we couldn't see coming from weeks ago.

Just picking up on this though, I do think there is something people need to consider when they try to judge where this United side are at: Rashford and Martial are not yet good enough to shoulder a title challenge.

Thats not a slight on them at all, but it is a slight on the team. Its not that long ago that people questioned if new manager Mourinho would ever give the kids a few games here and there, and the kids they meant were the likes of Rashford. Now they are playing every game, taking every set piece and judged to be core first teamers, so is it really so surprising that our attack isn't exactly of the highest quality?

Spot the odd one out: De Bruyne, Silva, Hazard, Erikson, Salah, Mane, Sane, Rashford...

Its all part of a whole, bring Pogba back and fix that missing link and we are still going to have struggles up front if we want to rely on the 20 year old and the 21 year old.

S.M.B.

Sane is younger then Martial and theres only a few months between Rashford and Jesus.

Relying on youth is only a problem if the senior players fail to step up themselves.

I'd be pointing a finger more so at the latter.

SlickRic

José tried to take it to Chelsea. I didn't think he would.

The issue was that as a unit, Kanté, Bakayoko, Fabregas and Hazard were streets ahead of Matic, Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Rashford.

Kanté was ridiculous, and stopped at least half a dozen counters single handedly. José didn't have a special plan for Hazard, and the Kanté/Bakayoko tandem gave Cesc immense freedom.

By contrast, Mkhi was utter muck. As was Herrera. You can't carry that in an engine room when Hazard and Cesc, by contrast are playing superbly.

I said it weeks ago (as some of you have)...Pogba is more important than many had previously realised, particularly when a Herrera whose fallen off a cliff, or a half fit Fellaini, are your alternatives.

I've seen Lukaku get stick online and in the media. I don't know what he's supposed to do when the team can't get up the pitch well enough that he doesn't even have a single touch in the opposition box.

DM_7

You are right bucketybuck, Rashford and Martial should be extra pieces like an Asensio, not the key piece like Ronaldo.

DM_7

SlickRic wrote: »

I've seen Lukaku get stick online and in the media. I don't know what he's supposed to do when the team can't get up the pitch well enough that he doesn't even have a single touch in the opposition box.

That is not a new thing for a United striker either. Rooney, van Persie, Ibra all days like that without the creativity or control of a game.

bucketybuck

S.M.B. wrote: »

Sane is younger then Martial and theres only a few months between Rashford and Jesus.

Relying on youth is only a problem if the senior players fail to step up themselves.

I'd be pointing a finger more so at the latter.

You use youth, you develop it, you facilitate it, protect it, take advantage of it, use it to ambush teams, treat it as a bonus, enjoy it, be wary of it.

You never rely upon it.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

José tried to take it to Chelsea. I didn't think he would.

The issue was that as a unit, Kanté, Bakayoko, Fabregas and Hazard were streets ahead of Matic, Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Rashford.

Kanté was ridiculous, and stopped at least half a dozen counters single handedly. José didn't have a special plan for Hazard, and the Kanté/Bakayoko tandem gave Cesc immense freedom.

By contrast, Mkhi was utter muck. As was Herrera. You can't carry that in an engine room when Hazard and Cesc, by contrast are playing superbly.

I said it weeks ago (as some of you have)...Pogba is more important than many had previously realised, particularly when a Herrera whose fallen off a cliff, or a half fit Fellaini, are your alternatives.

I've seen Lukaku get stick online and in the media. I don't know what he's supposed to do when the team can't get up the pitch well enough that he doesn't even have a single touch in the opposition box.

It's nice to read something from someone non utd and speak what I've been saying all along. We've a ways to go to be PL winners and I've always thought this. But some concerns over our squad depth in midfield when it comes to creativity.
It's like we have plugged one gap with matic but now another has appeared due to the loss of Pogba.
Our squad depth in midfield is not good enough.
Some lads are still convinced Herrera and Miki are good enough to fill the void from a creative point of view. Maybe against weak opposition, but not against top sides.

It's easy to blame Jose for everything
Lads can moan and say one week Utd should have went for it
He went for it and we lost
I'd have preferred a dull draw over a loss away from home at Chelsea
Especially with the players currently available for selection
If we had a full strength squad I think we would have won

S.M.B.

bucketybuck wrote: »

You use youth, you develop it, you facilitate it, protect it, take advantage of it, use it to ambush teams, treat it as a bonus, enjoy it, be wary of it.

You never rely upon it.

That's what's happening. We are only relying on it because others aren't stepping up. José refuses to even play Marcus and Anthony together.

Whether it's the senior players fault, the managers for placing too much trust in them or the board for not releasing enough cash over the summer is another question.