Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

wanderer100

I understand the resentment over the kicking the fan incident but damn!! Did Evra do something before that incident that I'm not aware of? Feel sorry for the guy getting this kind of abuse

https://twitter.com/ODDSbible/status/927275304208490496

Lord TSC

I think part of the issue was the fans had big issues with him before the incident, namely he's showing his age massively and has been ****. I saw one fan say they wished he'd show the same dedication to the team as he did his Instagram account.

pjohnson

Herrera being poison has really hurt us. Mata/Lingard should at least be alternatives to Mkhitaryan but Herrera being incapable of playing is a killer. We've easier matches if Pogba isnt back then start McTominay before Herrera (or bring Scott on if we start Fellaini). Andreas is badly needed and we should bin Mhiki.


Before Captain Hindsights start bemoaning Jose letting Andreas leave not a single person I can remember said our POTY would be a hindrance this year Herrera was supposed to be more than adequate cover and if he was performing as he did last year our midfield would be considerably better. This drastic drop off a cliff performances this year are bizarre.

Tylerdurex

limnam wrote: »

Sorry my memory was mostly of him beating a load of players and falling :

Well that case you should go for an MRI because your memories are wrong. Duff was class for Chelsea. I'm guessing your too young to remember

yabadabado

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

People must be souring on Lukaku already if there is calls for Ibra to come and be the saviour.

I know he scored at a good rate early doors but for far too many games he just looks like a clumsy donkey up front, I think Utd fans know deep down he is not the future of the club and yous have spunked alot of money on him. Can you honestly see yourselves winning leagues or a CL with Lukaku as the main focal point, I can't. Just not enough quality in his game.

Thorts?

My thorts are I would give you 1/10 for effort.

DM_7

pjohnson wrote: »

Herrera being poison has really hurt us. Mata/Lingard should at least be alternatives to Mkhitaryan but Herrera being incapable of playing is a killer. We've easier matches if Pogba isnt back then start McTominay before Herrera (or bring Scott on if we start Fellaini). Andreas is badly needed and we should bin Mhiki.


Before Captain Hindsights start bemoaning Jose letting Andreas leave not a single person I can remember said our POTY would be a hindrance this year Herrera was supposed to be more than adequate cover and if he was performing as he did last year our midfield would be considerably better. This drastic drop off a cliff performances this year are bizarre.

Forget Pereira, another player who grows in reputation by not taking to the field for United. Herrera would still be playing ahead of him from the start in a game like today.

Whatever about Herrera as an individual, it is the decision to use him in a two man midfield that is a major problem. Look at Benfica at home even, two in midfield were finding it difficult until Herrera came on to make it three.

Jose was worried about Chelsea's wide players and tried to create a status quo. Left too much room for the dangerous players centrally and let Chelsea's midfield and defence control where the game was played.

S.M.B.

pjohnson wrote: »

Herrera being poison has really hurt us. Mata/Lingard should at least be alternatives to Mkhitaryan but Herrera being incapable of playing is a killer. We've easier matches if Pogba isnt back then start McTominay before Herrera (or bring Scott on if we start Fellaini). Andreas is badly needed and we should bin Mhiki.


Before Captain Hindsights start bemoaning Jose letting Andreas leave not a single person I can remember said our POTY would be a hindrance this year Herrera was supposed to be more than adequate cover and if he was performing as he did last year our midfield would be considerably better. This drastic drop off a cliff performances this year are bizarre.

Are we confident that it's a drop in form and nothing else? Did Herrera put in many big games as part of a midfield two last season? Did he thrive in games where he operated as a creative force and not simply there to break up play? Did we give him too much credit for showing a bit of passion in a team that seemed not bothered at times?

Maybe it is down to form but it's probably not the only factor.

Rekop dog

pjohnson wrote: »

It shows effectiveness and how clinical a side is. I clearly showed I wasnt misinformed. For the tallest team in the league we should be much more efficient. We arent the 4th tallest and its a small sample size so could be much lower than 4th. Try fishing elsewhere.

Can you show me your findings on them being the tallest in the league? I see they've the 2nd tallest squad but likes and Ibra and Mctominay are bringing that average way up and haven't seen a min of league action. Not a hope their regular 11 are the tallest I'm afraid.

But regardless none of it amounts to them being awful at set pieces and your argument is super tenuous.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think part of the issue was the fans had big issues with him before the incident, namely he's showing his age massively and has been ****. I saw one fan say they wished he'd show the same dedication to the team as he did his Instagram account.

He has played 1 league game with them this season!!

Hope he retires and joins utd in some form like a coach or ambasador

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not much to say about the match, there was nothing surprising there and nothing we couldn't see coming from weeks ago.

Just picking up on this though, I do think there is something people need to consider when they try to judge where this United side are at: Rashford and Martial are not yet good enough to shoulder a title challenge.

Thats not a slight on them at all, but it is a slight on the team. Its not that long ago that people questioned if new manager Mourinho would ever give the kids a few games here and there, and the kids they meant were the likes of Rashford. Now they are playing every game, taking every set piece and judged to be core first teamers, so is it really so surprising that our attack isn't exactly of the highest quality?

Spot the odd one out: De Bruyne, Silva, Hazard, Erikson, Salah, Mane, Sane, Rashford...

Its all part of a whole, bring Pogba back and fix that missing link and we are still going to have struggles up front if we want to rely on the 20 year old and the 21 year old.

I find it strange that the issue you had with that game was Rashford and Martial. Martial only played about half an hour.

Cantona's Collars

Relying on just Valencia to provide an attacking threat on the right means we lose a whole dimension to our attack. It was noticeable today that so much went down the left where it was Rashford Vs 2 or 3 defenders. Anytime the ball went right,it ended up going backwards or sideways.
Quick ball out wide and space being found was a trademark of our team but with what we have now there's a serious lack of quality.Our two best wing forwards prefer to play on the left which leaves Valencia who only has one foot and can't cross to save his life on the right and to top it all he is playing as full back also and has to try to do the job of two men.

Schwiiing

Too much deadwood dross hanging around the club for too long. The only thing keeping Smalling Jones Young and Lingard at the club are the HG rules. Valencia is way off what's required aswell. We're still years and 100's of millions from a title.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I find it strange that the issue you had with that game was Rashford and Martial. Martial only played about half an hour.

He forgot we actually rely on lukaku. A proven striker
I'm ok with having one or the other on the pitch in Rashford or martial. I understand why Jose doesn't start both

Also the list contains primarily AMs / #10s and a couple of wingers
He should have listed mikitaryan, that's what he was purchased for. And we all know that's why we have been cack up front

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I find it strange that the issue you had with that game was Rashford and Martial. Martial only played about half an hour.

Its not strange, you just didn't read my posts. I wasn't talking about that game, it was simply a comment on where this United squad is currently at, in response to an opinion from another poster. Just as I said.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He forgot we actually rely on lukaku. A proven striker
I'm ok with having one or the other on the pitch in Rashford or martial. I understand why Jose doesn't start both

Also the list contains primarily AMs / #10s and a couple of wingers
He should have listed mikitaryan, that's what he was purchased for. And we all know that's why we have been cack up front

I didn't mention Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Sanchez, Ozil or Fabregas either. But you read all posts diligently so you may already have known that.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I didn't mention Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Sanchez, Ozil or Fabregas either. But you read all posts diligently so you may already have known that.

Out of interest, who or what do you blame for the loss yesterday?

Rayne Wooney

I’d blame Mourinho if he deserved it but our píss poor transfers over the last 4 or 5 years is the underlying problem, we can chirp on about the squad being this and that on paper but when it comes down to it the players don’t produce.

There is no cutting edge, no real danger in that team. Nobody who will consistently punish like City, Spurs or Liverpool’s frontmen will.

We started like a house on fire against poor opposition but the players quickly went back to their usual form when the going got tough.

Are Lukaku, Matic, Baily & Pogba piss poor transfers?
I'd say most certainly not.

jayo26

Hopefully he back for the 18th.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Out of interest, who or what do you blame for the loss yesterday?

Will you see the answer this time?

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Are Lukaku, Matic, Baily & Pogba piss poor transfers?
I'd say most certainly not.

Yeah, I have to say that I've been very happy with the majority of Jose's transfers. The "bad" ones, so to speak, look to be Lindelof (and it's waaaay too early to write him off completly) and Mkhi (who, in fairness, was one of the best players in Germany when we bought him and just seems to have regressed massively). In terms of transfers, I feel Jose has brought in better players than we'd have managed without him, and his transfers have, by and large, been good to great.

The issue is we haven't been able to clear out all the deadwood as quick as we could. There's likely reasons for that (again, in fairness, there's few examples of teams that bring in ten new players and do well) but so long as we're relying on the likes of Young and Valencia on the wings, Smalling and Jones in defence, etc, we're going to struggle

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Will you see the answer this time?

Yes, go ahead

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's nice to read something from someone non utd and speak what I've been saying all along. We've a ways to go to be PL winners and I've always thought this. But some concerns over our squad depth in midfield when it comes to creativity.
It's like we have plugged one gap with matic but now another has appeared due to the loss of Pogba.
Our squad depth in midfield is not good enough.
Some lads are still convinced Herrera and Miki are good enough to fill the void from a creative point of view. Maybe against weak opposition, but not against top sides.

It's easy to blame Jose for everything
Lads can moan and say one week Utd should have went for it
He went for it and we lost
I'd have preferred a dull draw over a loss away from home at Chelsea
Especially with the players currently available for selection
If we had a full strength squad I think we would have won

I thought the first half was incredible. I hadn't been that enthralled in a big game of ours since Van Gaals time. It was brilliant. Sure defence was ropey as we left space for Fabregas by pressing, but that was fine. I loved we were taking risks and I loved the press, I loved the energy. I thought Mhiki was looking slick, Lukaku was looking sharp and I thought we were on the cusp of something.

But then the second half happened. I was watching while having visitors in the house so I wasn't paying 100% attention, but it looked like a collapse. Felt disjointed, we went into fouling Hazard and then just got absolutely bossed. I don't think thats anything to do with tactics, unless the manager somehow contrived to change things, when they looked to be going decent first half. It just looked like a collapse by the team.

The friends I was watching with, went into mini meltdown. Granted two of them literally accept nothing but success, and to be honest as I asked them, they are probably right. A club like ours, anything but success and winning is a problem. There is no time for transitions or settling in, the club needs to be facilitating constant competitiveness.

While I was annoyed at the result, annoyed at the second half performance, I'm finding myself not as "visceral" as I normally would. I don't even find myself taking much issue with the manager, where normally I would. And I think that comes from the first half display, and what was attempted and tried. We didn't stink the place out, I didn't have to watch a turgid pile of garbage, that it turned that way from my POV in the second half ok that's annoying.

But I'm happy to appreciate the manager tried something different, he tried something new, and it didn't work. I hope its not an excuse for him to be like "see tried that, lost" and revert to type, as I can engage a lot more during big games, and support the manager, when that is the sort of attitude and effort that is being made.

Chelsea is a graveyard for us in terms of results, so its not the worst thing to lose there, we've what 1 win in 15 years? I really am just glad he tried something new to try win.

TheDoc

Also think its time we see Mhik withdrawn for a period and Martial paired up top with Lukaku. I liked that two up top and I want to see it more. I'm of the personal opinion Martial>Rashford up front, so would like to see that pairing, with Rashford also playing if possible but if it means benched, OK fair enough.

Defending Mhiki now for a good while, and I do believe the problems are tied with Pogba, but its not an overall excuse for his general garbage form.

Leroy42

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah, I have to say that I've been very happy with the majority of Jose's transfers. The "bad" ones, so to speak, look to be Lindelof (and it's waaaay too early to write him off completly) and Mkhi (who, in fairness, was one of the best players in Germany when we bought him and just seems to have regressed massively). In terms of transfers, I feel Jose has brought in better players than we'd have managed without him, and his transfers have, by and large, been good to great.

The issue is we haven't been able to clear out all the deadwood as quick as we could. There's likely reasons for that (again, in fairness, there's few examples of teams that bring in ten new players and do well) but so long as we're relying on the likes of Young and Valencia on the wings, Smalling and Jones in defence, etc, we're going to struggle

Agree with all of this, and I think this season will be a fight for Top 4. Some were lulled into a false sense from the 1st few games when we had a very easy start to the season, but we also played well.

Since then Mihky has fallen off cliff in terms of performance, at this stage he should not be getting anywhere near the 1st team, and the loss of Pogba has been huge.

I think we have improved from last year, and I think the other teams such as Arsenal, Chelsea and Pool have not improved. It will be hard to accept given that it looks like City will streamroll everyone but hopefully this is another step on the ladder.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Also think its time we see Mhik withdrawn for a period and Martial paired up top with Lukaku. I liked that two up top and I want to see it more. I'm of the personal opinion Martial>Rashford up front, so would like to see that pairing, with Rashford also playing if possible but if it means benched, OK fair enough.

Defending Mhiki now for a good while, and I do believe the problems are tied with Pogba, but its not an overall excuse for his general garbage form.

He's been given plenty of chances, so know one can say he hasn't been given a sustained run in the squad.
But keep in mind he was piss poor all season, even when he was getting assists against weak opposition.

The international break came at a good time IMO.
Just hope it's enough time to get Pogba back in the squad however.

I did like the way Fellani news was handled. Jose played down his availability also and then boom, he's back in the squad.

Fellani was unlucky yesterday, expected to be a bit rusty coming back in but again he provided that plan B and only for a super save by Courtois we could have come away with a draw.

DM_7

The players Jose brought in were, in the main, good or very good signings. They were needed to give the team and squad solid foundations. Some like Pogba, Bailly and Lukaku can go much further.

But it is who United have not yet signed that leave them still looking like a team playing catch up. United basically need a Hazard (to use a player from yesterday). Someone that gives space to others like Pogba, or Rashford or Lukaku operate in attacking moments.

United are still only a work in progress.

Your Airbag

jayo26 wrote: »

Hopefully he back for the 18th.

The fact we have only one creative MF is a huge balls up from management given the fortune spent. We have no midfield and it was evident yesterday. Matic and Herrera are incompatible, and Young starting and Mata sent to the stands? and if that fails lets play lump ball to Fellaini.

Thats problem number two, the system, well the complete lack of a system.

We don't have a style. City press high and pass a lot, Chelsea are a counter attacking team. We don't have an id, by that I mean its a lot of basic stuff, aimless uncreative passing in midfield and try get it to the forwards, Val will overlap a lot but there is not a system in place utilizing our best players.

If Jose could figure out a system to get the best out of our wingers and Pogba, Mata, Herrera and Matic we would improve. I'd like to see Miki dropped and Rom, Rashford and Martial up front with Mata, Pogba and Matic in behind them as our default lineup but I feel there is no way Jose would play them together.

jayo26

Your Airbag wrote: »

The fact we have only one creative MF is a huge balls up from management given the fortune spent. We have no midfield and it was evident yesterday. Matic and Herrera are incompatible, and Young starting and Mata sent to the stands? and if that fails lets play lump ball to Fellaini.

Thats problem number two, the system, well the complete lack of a system.

We don't have a style. City press high and pass a lot, Chelsea are a counter attacking team. We don't have an id, by that I mean its a lot of basic stuff, aimless uncreative passing in midfield and try get it to the forwards, Val will overlap a lot but there is not a system in place utilizing our best players.

If Jose could figure out a system to get the best out of our wingers and Pogba, Mata, Herrera and Matic we would improve. I'd like to see Miki dropped and Rom, Rashford and Martial up front with Mata, Pogba and Matic in behind them as our default lineup but I feel there is no way Jose would play them together.

You probably right on the management's fault for the lack of midfield I don't think anyone can argue against that and the only thing I could say is that I believe jose made signings in order of importance.

In the summer we have mata and miki and pogba the creative players I believe the first two have under performed massively without pogba in the team.

Is it down to system or players I believe it's a mixture of both probably but I do know that the team misses pogba massively.

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

The players Jose brought in were, in the main, good or very good signings. They were needed to give the team and squad solid foundations. Some like Pogba, Bailly and Lukaku can go much further.

But it is who United have not yet signed that leave them still looking like a team playing catch up. United basically need a Hazard (to use a player from yesterday). Someone that gives space to others like Pogba, or Rashford or Lukaku operate in attacking moments.

United are still only a work in progress.

I think that is offering up excuses for successive managers. Moyes inherited a banjaxed squad, as did Van Gaal, and then Jose inherited a squad short on believe and shellshocked through change but had potential.

I don't believe we have made a signing post Ferguson, apart from Fellaini, where there is somewhat debate or concern over "what is this about". All the players have been quality or high in potential.

And while sure, all signings don't work out, it's firmly at the feet of the respective managers. Using transfers windows as an excuse for managers who are clearly not extracting 100% or making a team tick, is just a really poor reflection on the manager imo.

So we've gone from a start of the season of title contender to now "ah well we need A B C before we can really say we are there" sorry I'm not buying that.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

You probably right on the management's fault for the lack of midfield I don't think anyone can argue against that and the only thing I could say is that I believe jose made signings in order of importance.

In the summer we have mata and miki and pogba the creative players I believe the first two have under performed massively without pogba in the team.

Is it down to system or players I believe it's a mixture of both probably but I do know that the team misses pogba massively.

I have sympathy in terms of the gaping void now left by Pogba, and how it can be tough to cater for. When a team loses it's best player, or big influence, I don't think many teams have a like for like replacement.

What you want and need is to just grind through or have someone who can"do a job" while they are out. Hererra in fairness should be able to do it but hes just all over the place this season.

City are maybe the best equipped in terms of if they lost De Bruyne they have Silva, but its still a massive blow. Spurs lose Kane, Chelsea without Hazard and you can go through every single team.

It's wishful thinking that a team won't hit bumps when they lose an important or their most important player, but at the same time, it shouldn't go entirely of the rails either.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

The fact we have only one creative MF is a huge balls up from management given the fortune spent. We have no midfield and it was evident yesterday. Matic and Herrera are incompatible, and Young starting and Mata sent to the stands? and if that fails lets play lump ball to Fellaini.

I have to say I can't get behind this constant blaming of the midfield for the lack of creativity up front. Each area of the field relies on the other, thats a given, but it seems like there are four lads up front scratching their balls and waiting around as if they can't do anything without Pogba in the team.

Matic and Herrera are perfectly good midfielders, as good as Carrick, Cleverley and Anderson ever were for example. Pogba isn't there, but that doesn't mean Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Martial or Rashford can't get on a few balls and string a few goddamn passes together.

As far as I am concerned we did address the midfield and the base for a solid attacking system is there. Its the three lads regularly sitting ahead of that midfield that are the real problem. Pogba coming back will only cover up that problem, he won't fix it.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

So we've gone from a start of the season of title contender to now "ah well we need A B C before we can really say we are there" sorry I'm not buying that.

I could show you plenty of posts from pre-season of people saying exactly that, that we remained well short of being a complete team.

Your Airbag

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Are Lukaku, Matic, Baily & Pogba piss poor transfers?
I'd say most certainly not.

I would not call them piss poor ever but I also wouldn't call them sensational. Lukaku is good but lacks certain aspects of his game that would make him world class.

He's big and physical but lacks a technical ability that the best strikers have where they can get you a game winning goal out of nothing. He is essentially a target man, which is why he worked so well at Everton and he looks like he is still being deployed in Everton mode by Jose. Greizman is much more complete in that sense as he can be a forward or Midfielder.

Matic can be really good when those around him are. Baily is solid but he is our only reliable looking defender and as important as that is it doesn't add creativity especially not if he is the only one.

Pogba is class, no complaints there but we could not unleash him last season as we needed him to be more defensive and essentially play Matic's role but now he's injured we have no creative spark, well actually we do in Mata but Jose wants his 6-2-2 on defense to 4-4-2 on attack system or wotever he is trying to do so just like at Chelsea we get players like Young starting ahead of him.

There is more attacking ability in our squad that could be unleashed but Jose is not the manager to do it. Then we have players like Carrick, Lingard, Young, Jones and Blind who are not UTD level or too old and Miki and Herrera who's form is so bad they are trying to get there.

Lastly Fellaini, yesterday we saw him as a footballer summed up in his appearance, technically he is not good and gave the ball away stupidly in the worst possible areas (but he is not match fit and only trained for two days) so he was worse than usual in this aspect yesterday so I'll give him a pass but he is a WEAPON when we play hoofball. Almost every header he wins and he has the best chest game in business, our best chances came about solely because of him. He is a very important tool at our disposal and should not be sold under any circumstances.

pjohnson

Pogba would have been better than Herrera but it wouldn't have helped us much with Mkhitaryan tasked with "supporting" Lukaku. Mata is our best #10 by a distance. Fellaini not being fit also was a problem for this game.


I dont think upgrading Young and Valencia is a priority. Alaba and Carvajal could have been our full backs and nothing would have changed yesterday. Matic was our only central midfielder to show up yesterday against 3 (Kante, Fabregas, Bakayoko) from Chelsea. Hell even Jones charging into midfield for their goal could have been avoided if we had anyone actually helping Matic.

kstand

We had zero creativity yesterday - felt at the time that they should have bit the bullet and got Perisic, esp seeing as Griezmann wasn’t going to happen. Load of money spent and we are still flat.

SlickRic

The issue yesterday was quite simple.

Nothing to do with Lukaku. Morata was awful, but he had a ton of service.
Jones and Smalling weren't great, but the loss had nothing to do with them really.
It didn't really have to do with tactics so much either.

Matic, Herrera and Mkhi just weren't good enough against Chelsea's three.

There's no point hand wringing on multiple facets of the team. It was lost in midfield. It was a mauling.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have to say I can't get behind this constant blaming of the midfield for the lack of creativity up front. Each area of the field relies on the other, thats a given, but it seems like there are four lads up front scratching their balls and waiting around as if they can't do anything without Pogba in the team.

Matic and Herrera are perfectly good midfielders, as good as Carrick, Cleverley and Anderson ever were for example. Pogba isn't there, but that doesn't mean Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Martial or Rashford can't get on a few balls and string a few goddamn passes together.

As far as I am concerned we did address the midfield and the base for a solid attacking system is there. Its the three lads regularly sitting ahead of that midfield that are the real problem. Pogba coming back will only cover up that problem, he won't fix it.

We passed the ball a fair bit yesterday in midfield, especially the first 30 mins, but we still lost and rightfully so.
The differences between Hazard and Fabregas v Herrera & Miki was clear as day.
So ultimately you are blaming those players now? I thought it was Jose?
The issues are only addressed if both Matic & Pogba are available for selection at the same time.

Nalz

SlickRic wrote: »

Matic, Herrera and Mkhi just weren't good enough against Chelsea's three.

Matic should not be grouped in this fashion with those other two. He was good, just having those two meant collectively it wasn't good enough.

Herrera is limited and in poorish form.
Mkhitaryan is in very poor form.
Lukaku should not get the stick he gets either.
Jones was poor too. Smalling is limited and it amazes me how many fouls he gives away in the box that go unnoticed.
Young, gives his all and has a good cross, but he's not a wing back or FB.
Valencia, can we send him to a left boot camp please?

We have De Gea, Lukaku Rashford and Martial. Ibra to come back. Fellaini and Pogba to come back... Mata, I dunno if he's the answer for us. It's not as bad as it seems. However, we are miles away from winning the league.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I could show you plenty of posts from pre-season of people saying exactly that, that we remained well short of being a complete team.

Yeah but come on, yeah I'm sure every manager would want more and more money spent and better and better players.

But there comes a time where you actually just need to deal with what you have and get things going. Whatever happened to actually coaching players and making them better?

Ugh can already see where my posts are going to go on this and don't want to go there

Lord TSC

January will be interesting.

You'd have to imagine there'll be a big push for Griezmann (if Madrid get knocked out of the CL as they are on track to do) and, if not him, Ozil (who'd be very cheap AND not cup tied), to try and bring more creativity to the squad. I wonder if Jose will want a RW or a LB as well. You wouldn't hold out much hope for big name players in January for those spots though.

Been praying to see Greizmann in a Utd shirt for years. Gut feeling it won't ever happen

Your Airbag

SlickRic wrote: »

The issue yesterday was quite simple.

Nothing to do with Lukaku. Morata was awful, but he had a ton of service.
Jones and Smalling weren't great, but the loss had nothing to do with them really.
It didn't really have to do with tactics so much either.

Matic, Herrera and Mkhi just weren't good enough against Chelsea's three.

There's no point hand wringing on multiple facets of the team. It was lost in midfield. It was a mauling.

I agree, yesterday it was the MF and overall the system, not having Mata even in the squad was shocking.

Overall I'm looking at whats gone and whats to come in squad terms, we may steam roll the smaller teams at home but you need to take points from the big boys. For LVG's failing you would get a tactical masterclass from him against the top 6, he seemed to relish it and always wanted to win. Jose is safety first, even yesterday when more attack minded then at Anfield we still saw workhorses like Young and Lingard on the pitch and Mata and Martial not starting.

Don't expect his to change either for the rest of the season, he did the same at Chelsea, he would often start Oscar ahead of Mata.

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah but come on, yeah I'm sure every manager would want more and more money spent and better and better players.

But there comes a time where you actually just need to deal with what you have and get things going. Whatever happened to actually coaching players and making them better?

Ugh can already see where my posts are going to go on this and don't want to go there

I doubt any manager would have expected their POTY to forget how to pass a ball (around 25ish (I think) mins Herrera blasted a rocket pass at Matic that gave away a throw) to this degree. Players will naturally decline, we've seen that with Carrick as he has got older, even Rooney declined drastically, Herrera's plummet has been beyond any nightmares and he should be reaching his peak around now.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

I agree, yesterday it was the MF and overall the system, not having Mata even in the squad was shocking.

Overall I'm looking at whats gone and whats to come in squad terms, we may steam roll the smaller teams at home but you need to take points from the big boys. For LVG's failing you would get a tactical masterclass from him against the top 6, he seemed to relish it and always wanted to win. Jose is safety first, even yesterday when more attack minded then at Anfield we still saw workhorses like Young and Lingard on the pitch and Mata and Martial not starting.

Don't expect his to change either for the rest of the season, he did the same at Chelsea, he would often start Oscar ahead of Mata.

I don't think Blind or Darmian at full back or wing back would have been an improvement on Young. Its a talent issue at left back imo.

If Martial had started it would have been instead of Rashford, regardless of the formation used. Even when we were playing an attacking 433 - only one of them started.

Mata in for Miki would be the call I'd have made from an attacking perspective, and Lingard in for Miki is the call I expected Jose to make. Miki starting at all was a disaster.

pjohnson

Your Airbag wrote: »

Jose is safety first, even yesterday when more attack minded then at Anfield we still saw workhorses like Young and Lingard on the pitch and Mata and Martial not starting.

Did you expect Mata/Martial to start LWB?

SlickRic

Nalz wrote: »

Matic should not be grouped in this fashion with those other two. He was good, just having those two meant collectively it wasn't good enough.

That's fair. I listed them all as it was a collective failure. But of course, individually, Matic was fine yesterday.

Adamocovic

Decided to wait until posting in here to try refrain from any knee jerk responses by myself after that game.

Like many have said we were dominated in midfield last night. Chelsea controlled the game for the most part, and our actual chances in front of goal were very limited.

I don't buy into some people's opinion that the fault lies with the defence and that we have players there not up to this so called "United standard". We've conceded less goals this season than any other team in the league. We were outplayed yesterday and Chelsea created more chances. No need for a complete tear-down and rebuild job in my eyes.

To be honest this was on game where I didn't lose my cool at all, something people I was watching with had commented on. I know we want to be challenging for the title but I struggled to remember many wins we've had in Stamford Bridge in recent times, we'd be going a few years back surely to find one, and with our recent form not being the best I wasn't expecting much out of the game but was hopeful for a draw.

Hopefully we don't lose any players through injury during international break, then return with Pogba and you would hope that we could have a strong finish to the year.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I thought it was Jose?

You wouldn't need to think if you actually read what I said.

TheDoc wrote: »

Yeah but come on, yeah I'm sure every manager would want more and more money spent and better and better players.

But there comes a time where you actually just need to deal with what you have and get things going. Whatever happened to actually coaching players and making them better?

I've made very clear a certain disappointment with Jose's actions and decisions this past few weeks, but it is still a fact that there are quite a lot of players in that squad that have been and continue to hold the team back. There are a bunch there that have been consistent failures and we won't be winning any titles until they are all phased out of the squad.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

There are a bunch there that have been consistent failures and we won't be winning any titles until they are all phased out of the squad.

Genuinely interested, do you trust Jose to do it, and do it successfully?