Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Genuinely interested, do you trust Jose to do it, and do it successfully?

He created title winnings sides at Chelsea, two or three times didn't he? He has proven he can create effective, title winning sides.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He created title winnings sides at Chelsea, two or three times didn't he? He has proven he can create effective, title winning sides.

Oh, hey, I 100% trust Jose. Just curious if Bucky does.

sky88

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Been praying to see Greizmann in a Utd shirt for years. Gut feeling it won't ever happen

same but just keep getting the feeling ill see him announced as a barca player soon enough

kstand

Wouldn’t touch Ozil with a barge pole

Cantona's Collars

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-fan-rant-fellaini-11475376

This fella isn't happy at all.

"We're just a rich West Brom".

Mitch Connor

Will certainly be interesting to see if United do anything in January.

If At. Madrid aren't in the CL anymore maybe we move for AG then rather than the summer as the price would be the same regardless.

Have to think Mourinho would be desperate to sign a left back too, but not sure who we would be looking at there. Danny Rose often linked, can't see that being a mid-season deal. Teirney at Celtic? United apparently massively interested in him.

If we picked up AG and KT, it would be a good boost the side, imo.

Robson99

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will certainly be interesting to see if United do anything in January.

If At. Madrid aren't in the CL anymore maybe we move for AG then rather than the summer as the price would be the same regardless.

Have to think Mourinho would be desperate to sign a left back too, but not sure who we would be looking at there. Danny Rose often linked, can't see that being a mid-season deal. Teirney at Celtic? United apparently massively interested in him.

If we picked up AG and KT, it would be a good boost the side, imo.

Certainly would. But if Barca come knocking for Grizeman then we can forget about him. Only chance of Grizeman is if Couthino goes to Barca first IMO

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Genuinely interested, do you trust Jose to do it, and do it successfully?

Yes I do. Certainly to a far greater extent than any other manager people could suggest.

The problem he is facing is that you can make effective teams out of limited players, but you cannot make winners out of weak characters.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If we picked up AG and KT, it would be a good boost the side, imo.

Did Tierney not just sign a new contract? I don't know much about him other than the Celtic fans adore him and seem to think he'll stay with them for a good while yet.

DM_7

TheDoc wrote: »

I think that is offering up excuses for successive managers. Moyes inherited a banjaxed squad, as did Van Gaal, and then Jose inherited a squad short on believe and shellshocked through change but had potential.

I don't believe we have made a signing post Ferguson, apart from Fellaini, where there is somewhat debate or concern over "what is this about". All the players have been quality or high in potential.

And while sure, all signings don't work out, it's firmly at the feet of the respective managers. Using transfers windows as an excuse for managers who are clearly not extracting 100% or making a team tick, is just a really poor reflection on the manager imo.

So we've gone from a start of the season of title contender to now "ah well we need A B C before we can really say we are there" sorry I'm not buying that.

I am not offering up any excuses. United are still only a work in progress. That is not defending Jose, that is a slight on his and the overall clubs management of recruitment in recent times. United should not be so reliant on Rashford.

Jose himself can't take all the blame, van Gaal bought serious, serious duds. Jose has bought a lot of good players overall. For example Bailly, Matic, Lukaku, Pogba are all the right quality.

United, as a club, with all the money spent should have better attacking players, capable of making things happen and, thanks to their quality, make things easier for other players.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

You wouldn't need to think if you actually read what I said.

What's this "Weak Characters" you keep playing on?
What is that trait?

Utopia Parkway

Lord TSC wrote: »

Did Tierney not just sign a new contract? I don't know much about him other than the Celtic fans adore him and seem to think he'll stay with them for a good while yet.

Tierney is a big Celtic fan himself so I don't think he's in any hurry to move. Playing for the team he's supported all his life. That said he won't see out the 6 years of his contract either but I can see him staying a few more years before moving south. That said if Celtic get offered over 20M for him then who knows? They won't want to be seen pushing a boyhood Celtic fan out the door either but money changes a lot of things.

S.M.B.

SlickRic wrote: »

The issue yesterday was quite simple.

Nothing to do with Lukaku. Morata was awful, but he had a ton of service.
Jones and Smalling weren't great, but the loss had nothing to do with them really.
It didn't really have to do with tactics so much either.

Matic, Herrera and Mkhi just weren't good enough against Chelsea's three.

There's no point hand wringing on multiple facets of the team. It was lost in midfield. It was a mauling.

While I agree that Chelsea's dominance in midfield meant that United were second best for most of the game I don't think you can 100% put it down to the performance of those players alone.

The setup really didn't help matters and the back 3 are either scared to or refuse to even approach the half way line when in possession.

While it's an oversimplification to boil the game down to Chelsea's single goal I think it's worth noting that the space Morata got in the box all came from Azpilicueta deciding to give Cesc an option on the half way line and he was played a ball that put him on the front foot.

https://imgtc.com/w/XGnO97p

I'd be surprised if any of our back 3 touched the ball in the opposition half (or even near it) apart from a set piece scenario or when they were busy kicking the opposition at the same time.

deaddonkey15

I think a quality central midfielder should be a priority in January and/or summer. Our midfield got murdered yesterday and at Liverpool. Quality full backs would be next on the list in my opinion.

Fitz*

I know there is a lot of talk of Lukaku being a flat-track bully - only does it against the lesser teams and not in the big games. But is there something more than that.

United have scored 23 goals so far this season. Good amount for 11 games in to be fair. But looking at it deeper, it does seem to be a bit worrying for United.

2 goals scored versus the entire top half of the table, home and away. (1 at home v Spurs & 1 away in a loss at Huddersfield).

12 goals (over 50% of all PL goals this season) are against the bottom 3 teams in the league, and 4 more were against Everton who were in that area all season until yesterday.

Against those 4 teams (bottom 3 and Everton), 9 of these 16 goals were scored after the 80th minute when the opposition are chasing the game.

Is this a viable go forward attacking option to win leagues?

JamboMac

Players not made out of glass should be priority.

deaddonkey15

FitzShane wrote: »

I know there is a lot of talk of Lukaku being a flat-track bully - only does it against the lesser teams and not in the big games. But is there something more than that.

United have scored 23 goals so far this season. Good amount for 11 games in to be fair. But looking at it deeper, it does seem to be a bit worrying for United.

2 goals scored versus the entire top half of the table, home and away. (1 at home v Spurs & 1 away in a loss at Huddersfield).

12 goals (over 50% of all PL goals this season) are against the bottom 3 teams in the league, and 4 more were against Everton who were in that area all season until yesterday.

Against those 4 teams (bottom 3 and Everton), 9 of these 16 goals were scored after the 80th minute when the opposition are chasing the game.

Is this a viable go forward attacking option to win leagues?

No.

The_Kew_Tour

Only saw highlights yesterday but very disappointing.

Been poor past month or so in general

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will certainly be interesting to see if United do anything in January.

If At. Madrid aren't in the CL anymore maybe we move for AG then rather than the summer as the price would be the same regardless.

Have to think Mourinho would be desperate to sign a left back too, but not sure who we would be looking at there. Danny Rose often linked, can't see that being a mid-season deal. Teirney at Celtic? United apparently massively interested in him.

If we picked up AG and KT, it would be a good boost the side, imo.

Tierney signed a 6 year contract there last week, would probably be more likely to move in summer if he is, doubt he would leave Celtic in Jan.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

I know there is a lot of talk of Lukaku being a flat-track bully - only does it against the lesser teams and not in the big games. But is there something more than that.

United have scored 23 goals so far this season. Good amount for 11 games in to be fair. But looking at it deeper, it does seem to be a bit worrying for United.

2 goals scored versus the entire top half of the table, home and away. (1 at home v Spurs & 1 away in a loss at Huddersfield).

12 goals (over 50% of all PL goals this season) are against the bottom 3 teams in the league, and 4 more were against Everton who were in that area all season until yesterday.

Against those 4 teams (bottom 3 and Everton), 9 of these 16 goals were scored after the 80th minute when the opposition are chasing the game.

Is this a viable go forward attacking option to win leagues?

Huddersfield were in the bottom 10 last week, using the current table and the teams we played positions in it isn't a great way to look at things.

In 3 weeks the table will look different and in 3 weeks after different again

Even breaking down what your saying we didnt score many against the best teams in the league and have beaten the worst (going on current league position) thats going to be expected

That leaves us with 4 games against mid teams where we have scored 6 goals in them 4 games. We have scored in each of the games but have 2 poor results against stoke and huddersfield where we were poor defensively and conceding 2 goals in them games.

We wont win many games where we conceed 2 goals this season although against hudderfield we were piss poor all over

Fitz*

Deleted User wrote: »

Huddersfield were in the bottom 10 last week, using the current table and the teams we played positions in it isn't a great way to look at things.

In 3 weeks the table will look different and in 3 weeks after different again

Even breaking down what your saying we didnt score many against the best teams in the league and have beaten the worst (going on current league position) thats going to be expected

That leaves us with 4 games against mid teams where we have scored 6 goals in them 4 games. We have scored in each of the games but have 2 poor results against stoke and huddersfield where we were poor defensively and conceding 2 goals in them games.

We wont win many games where we conceed 2 goals this season although against hudderfield we were piss poor all over

If you want to take the highlighted piece into consideration, when United have actually scored less goals. It's only 1.
When United have played teams in their (at the time) top 10 position, they only scored once.


1 goal home or away to a top 10 team is disastrous for a team that has to be winning the league this year.

S.M.B.

But am I right in thinking we've only played 3 teams that were sitting in the Top 10 and those 3 teams are in the Top 5 now.

Will we struggle to break down teams in the upper mid table? Who knows?

Is '1 goal home or away to a top 10 team' a disastrous record? No as the stat means nothing without further context.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

If you want to take the highlighted piece into consideration, when United have actually scored less goals. It's only 1.
When United have played teams in their (at the time) top 10 position, they only scored once.


1 goal home or away to a top 10 team is disastrous for a team that has to be winning the league this year.

I dont want to consider any of it tbh you have a small sample size which includes fluctuating information.

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

Tierney signed a 6 year contract there last week, would probably be more likely to move in summer if he is, doubt he would leave Celtic in Jan.

Fella at Benfica then - looked very good vs United, were a few links to him, but could just have been because we were playing them.

J. Marston

Praying Mata gets a chance for the next 3 games. He simply cannot be any worse than Mkhitaryan.

Fitz*

S.M.B. wrote: »

But am I right in thinking we've only played 3 teams that were sitting in the Top 10 and those 3 teams are in the Top 5 now.

Will we struggle to break down teams in the upper mid table? Who knows?

Is '1 goal home or away to a top 10 team' a disastrous record? No as the stat means nothing without further context.

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont want to consider any of it tbh you have a small sample size which includes fluctuating information.

It may fluctuate yes, but given the very publicised inability to score away at the top teams (and actually more worrying inability to even get shots on target), are ye confident that this record will improve significantly to actually give a good shot at a title challenge?

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fella at Benfica then - looked very good vs United, were a few links to him, but could just have been because we were playing them.

Grimaldo? Liverpool supposed to be after him too I think.. decent shout there

xtal191

How has Griezmann been playing so far this season?

Cantona's Collars

One noticeable thing yesterday was a lack of a decent out ball for Matic. He took the ball from defenders,looked up and invariably had to play it back or sideways as he had nobody in front of him to connect with the front line. Mikhitryan was non existent in the role and Herrera was playing as a 2nd DM who's job it seemed was to kick people.
This compared to Hazard and Fabergas who were buzzing around and creating space for others such as the full backs and even Bakayoko to bomb into was chalk and cheese. Our build-up was so slow that Chelsea had time to drop into a shape to nullify us. We started off grand but after 20 minutes we stopped doing what was giving us some success and let Chelsea settle and spend 70 minutes doing what we did to them for the first quarter of the match.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

It may fluctuate yes, but given the very publicised inability to score away at the top teams (and actually more worrying inability to even get shots on target), are ye confident that this record will improve significantly to actually give a good shot at a title challenge?

That much publicised record at top teams includes jose last year at chelsea where the team was on a downward spiral and has little or nothing to do with us, im not sure what his record was like the season previous when they won the league but must have been ok or the media would surely be including it.

Last season against Arsenal we should have beat them by a couple and they were lucky in the last minute to get a draw, the other game versus them we had a weaken side out. I think it was the same against spurs around that time when we were concentrating soley on the uefa cup at that stage.

Do I think it will improve yes to some degree but its mainly all a storm in a teacup media nonsense imo

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

Thats problem number two, the system, well the complete lack of a system.

We don't have a style. City press high and pass a lot, Chelsea are a counter attacking team. We don't have an id, by that I mean its a lot of basic stuff, aimless uncreative passing in midfield and try get it to the forwards, Val will overlap a lot but there is not a system in place utilizing our best players.

If Jose could figure out a system to get the best out of our wingers and Pogba, Mata, Herrera and Matic we would improve. I'd like to see Miki dropped and Rom, Rashford and Martial up front with Mata, Pogba and Matic in behind them as our default lineup but I feel there is no way Jose would play them together.

I saw a very similar post on reddit earlier about (our lack of) a system. I don't fully agree with it, but it's interesting.

deaddonkey15

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

One noticeable thing yesterday was a lack of a decent out ball for Matic. He took the ball from defenders,looked up and invariably had to play it back or sideways as he had nobody in front of him to connect with the front line. Mikhitryan was non existent in the role and Herrera was playing as a 2nd DM who's job it seemed was to kick people.
This compared to Hazard and Fabergas who were buzzing around and creating space for others such as the full backs and even Bakayoko to bomb into was chalk and cheese. Our build-up was so slow that Chelsea had time to drop into a shape to nullify us. We started off grand but after 20 minutes we stopped doing what was giving us some success and let Chelsea settle and spend 70 minutes doing what we did to them for the first quarter of the match.

In fairness to Lingard, he probably would have provided that outlet had he started. It's one of his few strengths in my opinion.

Cookiemunster

I find it amazing that Jose is repeatedly beaten with the record away to the top 6 teams, yet no mention is ever made of Pochettino's record. In his last 16 games away to the top 6 (since he took over at Spurs) he's won 1, drawn 6 and lost 9. But I guess he's not Jose so it gets overlooked.

Ordinary man

Jose needs to be willing to play 2 up top side by side every so often. Too often lukaku is completely isolated and unable to lay off a pass co there's nobody within 20m of him. Some of uniteds best moves come when the wide players tuck in and it all goes through the centre

Cantona's Collars

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

In fairness to Lingard, he probably would have provided that outlet had he started. It's one of his few strengths in my opinion.

No offence to Lingard but we need something more. As Carragher said we looked like we were playing with 10 men when Mikhitryan was on the field. He's so out of form at the moment sticking Jesse in there or out wide with Rashford at 10 would be better until we get Pogba back.

Mitch Connor

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I find it amazing that Jose is repeatedly beaten with the record away to the top 6 teams, yet no mention is ever made of Pochettino's record. In his last 16 games away to the top 6 (since he took over at Spurs) he's won 1, drawn 6 and lost 9. But I guess he's not Jose so it gets overlooked.

And Spurs aren't United. They've not spent the same kind of money. The consideration is that Spurs/Poch are getting more bang for their buck in the league than any of the other top sides. Especially United.

Cantona's Collars

Moyes has a new job. To be confirmed as Hammers boss later.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

I saw a very similar post on reddit earlier about (our lack of) a system. I don't fully agree with it, but it's interesting.

Its only being mentioned because we are dropping points, in fact it used to be a good thing and a big selling point that Jose was flexible in terms of systems. Many fans were delighted to have a manager that adapted to different situations after the limiting rigidity of the Van Gaal era so its not really a criticism I could get behind now.

bangkok

about time now we start Martial and Rashford at the same time. Must be frustrating for both of them not being on the pitch at the same time

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And Spurs aren't United. They've not spent the same kind of money. The consideration is that Spurs/Poch are getting more bang for their buck in the league than any of the other top sides. Especially United.

The record cost them a shot at the title two years in a row, no matter how much money they've spent. And our record against the bottom ten cost us last season, not the games against the rest of the top 6.

SlickRic

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I find it amazing that Jose is repeatedly beaten with the record away to the top 6 teams, yet no mention is ever made of Pochettino's record. In his last 16 games away to the top 6 (since he took over at Spurs) he's won 1, drawn 6 and lost 9. But I guess he's not Jose so it gets overlooked.

You know why this is.

Jose's Utd are held to a higher standard than Spurs. It's what comes with success and having a trophy laden manager at the helm. Poch has won fúck all, so he's still all shiny and new.

Cantona's Collars

https://youtu.be/b-ufhlIlfmA

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not offering up any excuses. United are still only a work in progress. That is not defending Jose, that is a slight on his and the overall clubs management of recruitment in recent times. United should not be so reliant on Rashford.

Jose himself can't take all the blame, van Gaal bought serious, serious duds. Jose has bought a lot of good players overall. For example Bailly, Matic, Lukaku, Pogba are all the right quality.

United, as a club, with all the money spent should have better attacking players, capable of making things happen and, thanks to their quality, make things easier for other players.

But my point is it's down to the manager mostly. Of course you have instances a player doesn't work out, and yes it can be for a multitude of reasons.

But when we look at all our signings after Ferguson, what honestly has been a signing, bar Fellaini, that fans went "oh dont know about that".

Even Lindeloff, comes with a serious enough reputation in terms of potential. And even from the start there was expectations tempered about his integration, that it was so extreme from Jose, well that's another conversation.

Apart from probably Di Maria and Falcao of the top of my head, every other signing thats failed to live up the billing, has been the respective managers faults. For me anyway, there is clear talent and ability there, that managers arn't maximising.

Like what actual better attacking options do we want. There is incredible quality and ability there. Maybe the problem is the manager just leaving these players to figure it out? And when you have Martial and Rashford and Lingaard, players in the developing stages, the former two moreso, he's asking for them to figure out it by themselves? So we bring in Griezemann, to what? Replace Mhiki at 10. We can probably assume that Griezemann would be a major improvement, we can maybe assume he wont have issues settling and will be a good player. But United have been a graveyard for 10's. When did we actually ever have one that worked? Is that what Jose wants, a system whereby we operate a 10? Does he want to play two strikers (ergo no 10) like what is the plan, does he just tailor it game by game, or is there a system or plan hes buying players for?

All the indication from former players, staff and everything about Mourinho is he just leaves players in the final third to their own devices to figure it out. And that is pretty much fine in one respect,but I think that feeds into why he buys a certain age profile, ideally, for his attack. Because he needs players of experience and brainpower to work out problems and how to do things themselves, because either he isn't arsed, or more accurate, doesn't know how?

You wonder is it ego that refrains him from taking someone on board to work with the attack.

I think United, as a club, should maybe expect better return from a coaching aspect, and not simply accepting "ah these players are muck, I need new ones" is that not a fair thing to require from a top world class manager at a world class team no?

I really do get what my mates are like when I try to be somewhat level headed and they instantly shoot me down with "will you shut the **** up, this is United we are talking about" so I can see why people are absolutely distraught at seeing "throwing it in the mixer" as our only alternative to whatever the hell plan A is supposed to be

TheDoc

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I find it amazing that Jose is repeatedly beaten with the record away to the top 6 teams, yet no mention is ever made of Pochettino's record. In his last 16 games away to the top 6 (since he took over at Spurs) he's won 1, drawn 6 and lost 9. But I guess he's not Jose so it gets overlooked.

You answered your own question.

One is the manager of a club on the up, who he has spearheaded a massive turnaround and has a club punching above their weight but has no real historical reason of expectation.

The other is a world class manager with a CV stacked with trophies, managing the most successful club in England and a top global club.

That smacks of " oh but look at him over there". I think its proper and correct whatever about us focusing on our own state of affairs, but I think it's probably self explanatory why this record is constantly being brought up.

This is the proclaimed master tactician who was historically hailed for the big occasion, to work out how to nick that 1-0 away from home and absolutely infuriate opposing fans for it, and it's totally deserted him for whatever reason people want to point out, or a multitude.

bucketybuck

But the easy rejoinder to all of that is that since Mourinho arrived our attacking play has been immeasurably better than it had been for many years previous.

Not perfect of course, chance conversion is a problem and we still tend to have games where everything goes to ****, but there have still been dozens of games in his tenure where the passing, interplay and chance creation has been miles ahead of anything we saw under Van Gaal, Moyes, and even the last days of Ferguson.

You think we are just leaving the attacking players to do their own thing? I disagree, I think the coaching has had a massive impact on our attack over the past 12 months and we have seen evidence of that dozens of times.

I really do find it hard to believe a manager whos teams have regularly topped the goal scoring charts in different seasons in different leagues doesnt coach attacking play.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

But the easy rejoinder to all of that is that since Mourinho arrived our attacking play has been immeasurably better than it had been for many years previous.

Not perfect of course, chance conversion is a problem and we still tend to have games where everything goes to ****, but there have still been dozens of games in his tenure where the passing, interplay and chance creation has been miles ahead of anything we saw under Van Gaal, Moyes, and even the last days of Ferguson.

You think we are just leaving the attacking players to do their own thing? I disagree, I think the coaching has had a massive impact on our attack over the past 12 months and we have seen evidence of that dozens of times.

I'm not proclaiming that the manager totally neglects it. I just firmly believe, to be honest what seems to be just the facts from former players, staff etc. that while obviously it forms part of output from his system and tactical work, there is no individual or specific work performed with the attackers or the attack.

Guardiola by all accounts is the same. We all remember Henry explaining how Pep was meticulous for 80% of the pitch in terms of position and what to do, but when you get to this 10%, look lads, your better then I ever was, so I'll trust you know what to do.

But the point being the system will enable and nearly drive the decision making and the scenarios. And that is all fine.

My issue seems to be when its not working, when its a problem. I can't see anything different, I can't see what the plan is or what we are trying. Seems to be either slate the players, or throw someone else in instead.

I should say the two up top I really like, I think that's a step in the right direction especially with their pace be it Lukaku in tandum with Rashford and Martial. Whatever about it giving defences more problems I think its a good away top 6 strategy as our counter should be a bit more incisive.

Personally I'm in the camp that prays and feels all will be well when Pogba is back. That at its best this season he was playing well, letting Mhiki float up high and not have to roam and between himself and Pogba and the front three there was great interplay and just so many threats for teams to deal with.

I'm hoping its just a confidence thing. Its a tough run, and it hasn't been great in terms of performances, and that if we can just keep somewhat tight on City, when Pogba is back we might get back that confidence we had early doors, maybe throw someone a thumping again and everyone get the confidence going again, fans included.

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Moyes has a new job. To be confirmed as Hammers boss later.

Delighted for Moyes. A good club to get his career back on track

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Delighted for Moyes. A good club to get his career back on track

I like the potential appointment of Allardyce at Everton.

That bafoon has been spouting bollox the last few weeks about British managers not getting a chance and all this typical little Englander nonsense.

Maybe if clubs stopped employing the same old dross in Allardyce, Moyes, Pulis and Hughes to an extent, other more exciting, innovative British managers would have a chance.

That whole debate is gas. I don't personally have any affinity with Moyes and think his career is done, and it sounds a horrible appointment for West Ham, but sure maybe he can sort himself out.

PhlegmyMoses

The issue for me with English managers wanting a chance is that England is an elite, global league now. Chairmen actually don't give a **** if you are from England or Kazakhstan if you are winning them games and making them money. Because there is huge money in the league, they will buy in an elite manager, rather than giving an ex-pro a chance. This is okay and I'm not sure why people like Unsworth, Sherwood, Giggs etc believe they have a god-given right to be given the keys to a multinational.

The real question for me is why the English ex-pros don't try to head off to a different country or lower down the leagues and prove themselves there. That is what you need to do.

People like Allardyce is not wanted at the tp because he has never once shown that he is capable of anything more than firefighting with lesser players.