Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Off the top of my head Balotelli tearing us to bits getting a hattrick for City was far worse. Hell loosing to Huddersfield this year was worse. As far as Liverpool results when Vidic got sent off and we lost 4-1 was the worst Liverpool result I remember.


When did a draw become WORSE than a defeat?

For entertainment value and the usual match slagging before and after a game, i would prefer the red cards, loads of goals, bad mistakes, contraversy etc as a one off rather than sit through another 90min of what happened at anfield

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

This seems to be a common opinion, but it ignores the single biggest reason we are currently ahead of these teams and not stuck back in 5th/6th like last season.

A piss easy start to the season.

Look at their fixtures, are they really much different?

Played Chelsea (at home)
Played Liverpool (at home)
Played Man United (away)

We played Chelsea (away)
We played Liverpool (away)
We played Spurs (at home)

At a glance it doesn't look like their fixture list has been harder than ours - other teams played seem to be comparable (not the exact same sides though). Arguably easier considering we played Liverpool and Chelsea away rather than at home.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

This seems to be a common opinion, but it ignores the single biggest reason we are currently ahead of these teams and not stuck back in 5th/6th like last season.

A piss easy start to the season.

From the same games last season I've Huddersield left out (as no corresponding fixture) we got 17 points from 30 of those piss easy games and this season we have 23 points

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Liverpool game was one of the worst games i have ever witnessed

Maybe, maybe not. I've outlined plenty though that I believe that game wasn't a tactics problem but a player one.

Every team going to Liverpool this season should be playing a counter attacking game, given its yielding results there. That the players failed to carry out the game plan doesn't nessecarily mean the game plan itself was wrong.

This also leads me to another issue too; that there's a subsection of fans who appear to want every game to be a barn burner which is grand, I get why people think like that. But it's utterly spoiled to think there won't be a few bad games for every team every season. Again though, we stunk and still got out with the point at Anfield.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

From the same games last season I've Huddersield left out (as no corresponding fixture) we got 17 points from 30 of those piss easy games and this season we have 23 points

And?

I know what happened last season. But a number of people want to imply that everything is fine because right now we are ahead of Spurs, Chelsea, etc etc. I was simply pointing out one of the biggest reasons we are ahead of them is the fact that we amassed the majority of our 23 points in our first 6 games against weak opposition.

bucketybuck

Just thinking out loud, here is a problem I have with the defense of Mourinho's tactics in these big games.

So many people ask the question of what did we expect? That Mourinho has always kept it tight in the big matches, that this is nothing new?

But I have no problem with Jose keeping it tight, with being cagey or trying to win through tactical astuteness. The problem I have is that I always believed Jose kept it tight in his quest to win those games, that he wanted to win those games, and if you talk about a means to an end the defensive play was the means and the victory was the end.

Now people are talking as if the victory is not the end at all. That we never wanted to win, we just wanted a draw and thats all. That a draw is fine. Now people say with a straight face that Manchester United don't need to beat any of the top six, that just avoiding defeat is the end, and thats a horribly damaging mentality to have at what should be the biggest club in the land.

Lithium93_

yabadabado wrote: »

That International Rules series is absolute dog**** .Ruins two good sports .

Nalz wrote: »

Fúck international rules, load of pig shít

Opinions and all that.

Haven't been arsed about the Irish national football team since 2002.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just thinking out loud, here is a problem I have with the defense of Mourinho's tactics in these big games.

So many people ask the question of what did we expect? That Mourinho has always kept it tight in the big matches, that this is nothing new?

But I have no problem with Jose keeping it tight, with being cagey or trying to win through tactical astuteness. The problem I have is that I always believed Jose kept it tight in his quest to win those games, that he wanted to win those games, and if you talk about a means to an end the defensive play was the means and the victory was the end.

Now people are talking as if the victory is not the end at all. That we never wanted to win, we just wanted a draw and thats all. That a draw is fine. Now people say with a straight face that Manchester United don't need to beat any of the top six, that just avoiding defeat is the end, and thats a horribly damaging mentality to have at what should be the biggest club in the land.

Exactly you'd think we were bloody Brighton an didn't spend a bean. And we laughed at Klopp for celebrating a draw a season ago.
Set out to a nil nil draw and you deserve what you get

S.M.B.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just thinking out loud, here is a problem I have with the defense of Mourinho's tactics in these big games.

So many people ask the question of what did we expect? That Mourinho has always kept it tight in the big matches, that this is nothing new?

But I have no problem with Jose keeping it tight, with being cagey or trying to win through tactical astuteness. The problem I have is that I always believed Jose kept it tight in his quest to win those games, that he wanted to win those games, and if you talk about a means to an end the defensive play was the means and the victory was the end.

Now people are talking as if the victory is not the end at all. That we never wanted to win, we just wanted a draw and thats all. That a draw is fine. Now people say with a straight face that Manchester United don't need to beat any of the top six, that just avoiding defeat is the end, and thats a horribly damaging mentality to have at what should be the biggest club in the land.

Who is saying that? 'We just wanted a draw and that's all'? Utter nonsense.

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Now people are talking as if the victory is not the end at all. That we never wanted to win, we just wanted a draw and thats all. That a draw is fine. Now people say with a straight face that Manchester United don't need to beat any of the top six, that just avoiding defeat is the end, and thats a horribly damaging mentality to have at what should be the biggest club in the land.

Do you think he wanted a draw against Liverpool or Chelsea? I don't.

Do you think posters here wanted a draw? I don't.

I think Jose's tactics, player performances ultimately led to a draw and a loss but I don't think their actions were intended to be anything other than a win.

Jose has a history of frustrating opposition, forcing, taking advantage of mistakes in away games.

The what did you expect line is more about the approach, if people expect all guns blazing they should stop expecting it. They won't get it. They shouldn't get it either.

The worrying thing for me is that we tried to play some open, attacking football against Chelsea, and it wasn't good enough.

bantee

Heading over to the Brighton game on 25th Nov, haven’t been to a United game in a long time. I heard one of the main pubs near the stadium was demolished but can’t remember its name!
Any recommendations of good spots near the stadium on match day?

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The worrying thing for me is that we tried to play some open, attacking football against Chelsea, and it wasn't good enough.

Our midfield still isn't good enough so I'd expect a struggle in bigger games this season.

Mkhitaryan isn't playing well.
Herrera isn't a starting midfielder at a top club.
We've two young strikers playing as wingers.

I'd expect serious surgery on the midfield over the next two transfer windows.

Matic and Pogba will be grand obviously

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

The worrying thing for me is that we tried to play some open, attacking football against Chelsea, and it wasn't good enough.

I wouldn't class that as open, attacking football at all. I thought the first half was very nicely controlled football, it was cautious but always with an eye for getting forward should the opportunity arise. Unfortunately a creative black hole meant that none of those attacks were worth very much but at least the intent was there.

The second half just degraded into the type of performance we have seen all too often, but that wasn't too surprising considering recent games.

Bleating Lamb

Saw a piece on ESPN where John Champion made a point that maybe just maybe Jose needs to change his style of management slightly to challenge likes of Pep and Pochettino who send out their sides to win games in ALL their games in a season rather than looking to contain their direct rivals (top 6 sides) on the way to gaining points.
I think their is some merit in his argument,it is a bit of a sad day when Utd fans are happy to gain a point against likes of a flaky Liverpool side in last month.
Champion talked about how styles of play have changed in the Premiership in last few years and that Jose needs to adapt to give his players more freedom to express themselves.There is no point in spending tens of millions on likes of Mkitaryan or Martial if you are not giving them the freedom to express themselves on the pitch was gist of his viewpoint.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just thinking out loud, here is a problem I have with the defense of Mourinho's tactics in these big games.

So many people ask the question of what did we expect? That Mourinho has always kept it tight in the big matches, that this is nothing new?

But I have no problem with Jose keeping it tight, with being cagey or trying to win through tactical astuteness. The problem I have is that I always believed Jose kept it tight in his quest to win those games, that he wanted to win those games, and if you talk about a means to an end the defensive play was the means and the victory was the end.

Now people are talking as if the victory is not the end at all. That we never wanted to win, we just wanted a draw and thats all. That a draw is fine. Now people say with a straight face that Manchester United don't need to beat any of the top six, that just avoiding defeat is the end, and thats a horribly damaging mentality to have at what should be the biggest club in the land.

Nail on the head.

bangkok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The worrying thing for me is that we tried to play some open, attacking football against Chelsea, and it wasn't good enough.

We were missing our best player (pogba), our best passer (carrick) our best striker probably (ibra) rojo as well

S.M.B.

Why stop there?

Our best teenage prodigy who's gone off the rails (shaw), our best youngster who is out on loan (andreas), our best potential signing who wasn't signed (perisic), our best manager who's no longer manager (fergie) ...

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wouldn't class that as open, attacking football at all. I thought the first half was very nicely controlled football, it was cautious but always with an eye for getting forward should the opportunity arise. Unfortunately a creative black hole meant that none of those attacks were worth very much but at least the intent was there.

The second half just degraded into the type of performance we have seen all too often, but that wasn't too surprising considering recent games.

I said we 'tried'. Compared to our start at Liverpool and at home to Spurs, loosely that is a fair description of how the team started. For the first 25 minutes at Chelsea, we enjoyed possession and tried to get forward with it as much as possible rather than being cautious first. There was certainly a good element of control from us. From 25 minutes on, Chelsea got hold of the ball and control of the game. Whether we actively chose to drop off them then or they were simply too good in possession, I don't know. We were basically chasing them and the game from then until 10-15 minutes from the end.

There is a creative hole there at the moment, sure, but there's also a hole in the CM which is just as detrimental for us in these games. Herrera not being in top form is not the fundamental reason and it would be shortsighted to think that is simply the case. Also, it isn't necessarily a Pogba-sized hole, it's a hole that could be partially and effectively filled with any third CM in the team IMO.

Against Benfica at home, we struggled in possession and it was looking like we'd do well to get out with the 1-0 win. Herrera, not in his best form, came on and immediately we weren't getting bypassed in CM, and were exercising some control with some good passing and possession.

Would Fellaini have been good enough (fitness-wise) to start as a third CM against Chelsea? Is the third CM so important that we should risk starting McTominay against the likes of Chelsea? 'I'm not sure' is the answer to both of those questions. However, until we play with a MF3 in our toughest matches, I don't see anything changing no matter what the manager's tactics/instructions are. We are simply going to be bypassed and face pressure with two in the middle. Matic and Pogba - That is only going to harness Pogba's attempts to be a creative influence on our play.

The creative blackhole will hamper our chances of winning games. This MF hole is increasing our chances of losing them.

jimmytwotimes 2013

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Our midfield still isn't good enough so I'd expect a struggle in bigger games this season.

Mkhitaryan isn't playing well.
Herrera isn't a starting midfielder at a top club.
We've two young strikers playing as wingers.

I'd expect serious surgery on the midfield over the next two transfer windows.

Matic and Pogba will be grand obviously

I addressed most of that in a reply to Buckety above.

Herrera alone isn't the problem, I don't think Matic and Pogba alone will be grand in the Top 6 games.

Mkhitaryan - Anything or anyone (Mata, or 3 in CM) should be tried in his place by now, at least for a run of games. I will say though that Newcastle at home in our next game would be a good one to give him a chance to get a goal/assist and some confidence back.

bangkok

S.M.B. wrote: »

Why stop there?

Our best teenage prodigy who's gone off the rails (shaw), our best youngster who is out on loan (andreas), our best potential signing who wasn't signed (perisic), our best manager who's no longer manager (fergie) ...

I named players who were injured

Tylerdurex

DM_7 wrote: »

Do you think he wanted a draw against Liverpool or Chelsea? I don't.

Do you think posters here wanted a draw? I don't.

I think Jose's tactics, player performances ultimately led to a draw and a loss but I don't think their actions were intended to be anything other than a win.

Jose has a history of frustrating opposition, forcing, taking advantage of mistakes in away games.

The what did you expect line is more about the approach, if people expect all guns blazing they should stop expecting it. They won't get it. They shouldn't get it either.

For me the reason joses tactics haven't worked is because we don't have the forwards he had at other clubs , put A Sanchez and a Prime Robben either side of a fit Zlatan in an ultra defensive side and things would be different , both martial and rashford just aren't at that level yet

fergiesfolly

bangkok wrote: »

I named players who were injured

Honestly, if we're depending on Carrick and Ibra, we're already done.

Robson99

Tylerdurex wrote: »

For me the reason joses tactics haven't worked is because we don't have the forwards he had at other clubs , put A Sanchez and a Prime Robben either side of a fit Zlatan in an ultra defensive side and things would be different , both martial and rashford just aren't at that level yet

A 36 year old centre forward ???
He has had 3 Windows to sort out the squad so a lot of what you have outlined above rests with him.
Maybe he needs to change his tactics and play to our strengths rather that soiling the bed worrying about the opposition

Minderbinder

Agree with bucketybuck that we did have a very easy start to the season. I know fans of other clubs alluded to that at the time and it’s not nice for a United fan to admit they were right, but they were.

Someone put up a list of fixtures in another thread until the halfway stage of the season, and based on current form I’d expect us to be behind Liverpool and maybe one or two of the others by New Years.

bangkok

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Honestly, if we're depending on Carrick and Ibra, we're already done.

Think it just shows our poor transfer history last few years that carrick is still our best passer of the ball

fergiesfolly

bangkok wrote: »

Think it just shows our poor transfer history last few years that carrick is still our best passer of the ball

Only if he has an acre of space, which in the modern game, you haven't.
He could thread a pass through the eye of a needle but needs the same time as a snooker player to compose himself to do it.
Mata, Pogba, even Matic are better "real world" passers.

bangkok

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Only if he has an acre of space, which in the modern game, you haven't.
He could thread a pass through the eye of a needle but needs the same time as a snooker player to compose himself to do it.
Mata, Pogba, even Matic are better "real world" passers.

Nonsense.

ollkiller

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Only if he has an acre of space, which in the modern game, you haven't.
He could thread a pass through the eye of a needle but needs the same time as a snooker player to compose himself to do it.
Mata, Pogba, even Matic are better "real world" passers.

As Bangkok said, utter nonsense. Carrick is an amazing passer of the ball.

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/SerbianFooty/status/927562851908276224

Matic has been given the international break off by Serbia, and thus has not travelled to China or South Korea, so he can rest up

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SerbianFooty/status/927562851908276224

Matic has been given the international break off by Serbia, and thus has not travelled to China or South Korea, so he can rest up

Think Martinez said Fellaini won't be used either - needs 10 days to be ready to play properly again.

wanderer100

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SerbianFooty/status/927562851908276224

Matic has been given the international break off by Serbia, and thus has not travelled to China or South Korea, so he can rest up

Him and Pogba back in the starting line up fit and healthy is what this team needs the most. They feed off each other and compliment each other so well and we saw that earlier this season.

We've been bullied in the middle of the park against Liverpool, Chelsea and even Huddersfield. Them 2 and Fellaini as well should put us in a strong position come the Nov/Dec fixtures. Seems like we will nearly have a fully fit squad (bar Ibra) after this poxy Intl break

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Think it just shows our poor transfer history last few years that carrick is still our best passer of the ball

Carrick might technically be the best passer but he is not in our best matchday squad.

EDIT: Well currently he'd probably make the bench over Herrera but he still isnt a starter.

bangkok

This international break apart from the qualifiers is a farce. No need for international friendlies

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

This international break apart from the qualifiers is a farce. No need for international friendlies

BS - teams have to be given a chance to work on changes to style and personnel away from the do/die issues of qualifiers.

Also, they are a great source or income for a lot of FAs.

fergiesfolly

ollkiller wrote: »

As Bangkok said, utter nonsense. Carrick is an amazing passer of the ball.

When he has time. Better teams sussed him a long time ago and closed him down, forcing him at best, to pass back or sideways and more often as he got older, lose the ball altogether. The three I mentioned are much stronger on the ball( even Mata) and can get their passes away when under pressure.

TheDoc

Some links from last season and the season before.

At this point anytime I see people belittle Lukaku or claim him a poor buy or a mistake, in my head just telling to **** off

http://www.football365.com/news/romelu-lukaku-the-ridiculous-statistics

http://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/romelu-lukakus-incredible-goalscoring-statistics-everton/

It's absolute bollox and probably sour grapes we didn't sign their favourite striker.

https://twitter.com/SirMatthewBusby/status/928623637866803201

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SirMatthewBusby/status/928623637866803201

To me that just sounds like a bulsh1t made up story to get shares... unless he is just purely going to play off games then what is he going to learn from watching friendly internationals about a player.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

To me that just sounds like a bulsh1t made up story to get shares... unless he is just purely going to play off games then what is he going to learn from watching friendly internationals about a player.

Them friendlies are very important games

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

To me that just sounds like a bulsh1t made up story to get shares... unless he is just purely going to play off games then what is he going to learn from watching friendly internationals about a player.

If I was Mourinho I'd make sure to be seen watching Uzbekistan vs. Bolivia.


Go on journos, find your damn clickbait article outta this.

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

If I was Mourinho I'd make sure to be seen watching Uzbekistan vs. Bolivia.


Go on journos, find your damn clickbait article outta this.

Do like moyes did as soon as they start talking about kroos go to every German league game you can up until the week you get sacked.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

Do like moyes did as soon as they start talking about kroos go to every German league game you can up until the week you get sacked.

Make sure its Monchengladbachen vs. Frankfurt. Has to be a match Kroos isnt in just to keep them on their toes.

Whatever Jose does, I hope it's not another interview with French media :pac:

He has Rafa's Newcastle at home next - Hopefully Jose is spending these two weeks priming the steam-roller.

ESPN say that Pogba is back in training with the reserves. Rojo and Carrick too...

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/manchester-united/story/3263942/paul-pogba-trains-with-man-united-reserves-as-he-continues-recovery-sources

SportsWitness translated a French article with a few words from Anthony Martial...

An undisputed fan favourite at Manchester United, Anthony Martial is enjoying a rather impressive start to the season following a disappointing first campaign under José Mourinho.

Rarely smiling on the pitch, except for when he puts the ball in the back of the net, the 21-year-old’s apparent lack of emotion has been both praised and criticised, normally depending on his performances.

Either described as ‘ice cold’ when in good form or ‘uninterested’ when nothing goes his way, the France international was made aware of this during an interview with SFR Sport over the weekend.

Perhaps a bit more cheerful these days, which even José Mourinho has noticed, Martial was rather quick to defend himself, with a smile.

He said: “Maybe I smile a bit more now, I had a few problems in my life, but now that’s over. Now I’m really focused on my football and I’m happy to play. Really, if you see me in a group, you’ll see I’m one of the first guys to laugh.

“Off the pitch, I’m a bit shy, I don’t show my emotions that much, but I’m happy, even if you don’t see me smile, I’m still happy. Maybe on the pitch it’s because I’m focused. I’ll try and smile more, but it wouldn’t be natural if I forced it.”

Speaking to L’Equipe on Wednesday, one of his former teammates, Zakarie Labidi, explained: “He told me this summer that what helped him was the love from the fans. He always wanted to prove himself.”

With two France games to look forward to, being called up for the first time since the 2016 Euros by Didier Deschamps, there’s now a lot for him to smile about.

That, and the six goals and six assists he’s managed to help Manchester United with in eight starts.

"I had a few problems in my life, but now that's over" From what was reported at the time, his personal life was a shít-show and left little wonder as to why he looked distracted and distant in some truly terrible performances. Good for him if that situation is under control now.

Cotts72

Cant wait to get Rojo back, formed a great partnership with Bailly last season. Decent on the ball aswell which makes a huge difference

wanderer100

Lol :P

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/928732713493901312

jayo26

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

I searched twice to see was there a new thread created that i was missing!!

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I searched twice to see was there a new thread created that i was missing!!

Same here I had a look at post count and all haha.