Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

at 85m no chance

Well I wouldn't either but I think I said similar in summer too I think the price then was over 100 million.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You said they would never consider selling him.

So Arsenal never had any thoughts over the summer of selling Sanchez to City?

cause he didn't sign for City, so that must mean Arsenal never considered selling him, ever. Right? Cause thats how it works. If someone isn't sold, then their club never considered selling them. Obviously.

not last summer as they had no reason to sell. they won nearly every trophy available, perez was happy with him, zidane was happy with him, bale loves it in madrid, one of the highest paid players in the world. if jose said to bale, he needs to speak if he wants to leave, bale said nothing.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

at 85m no chance

As Garteh Bale scores again

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Well I wouldn't either but I think I said similar in summer too I think the price then was over 100 million.

we need to look for the next bale now. Sane would have been a perfect signing and we def should have been in for him. a bargain for city

adox

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/never

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

we need to look for the next bale now. Sane would have been a perfect signing and we def should have been in for him. a bargain for city

And quickly change topic to discussing the brilliance of City.

Adamocovic

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

we need to look for the next bale now. Sane would have been a perfect signing and we def should have been in for him. a bargain for city

salah would have been a great signing as well..

bangkok

best wishes to Liam Miller...only 36!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/former-irish-international-liam-miller-is-battling-cancer-1.3289931

Tylerdurex

Business Cat wrote: »

I'd take Bale for £40 to £50m in a heartbeat. As LTSC said, manage his injuries and he could get back to the top of his game again. He is relatively young and we are crying out for a player like him.

Manage his injuries, what the hell does that exactly mean? If we sign bale theres a potential hargreaves situation all over again

Liam McPoyle

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Manage his injuries, what the hell does that exactly mean? If we sign bale theres a potential hargreaves situation all over again

It means not do what LTSC said ie, rushing him back from injury and not play him in too many games until he is 100% fit.

Not that hard to comprehend I would have thought.

If we could have a player like Bale for even half of our games every year then £40 to £50 m is worth a shot.

Anything more than that isn't imo.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

What I find strange is how blase people are about Herrera going anywhere? The guy has always done a perfectly good job for us, he has had 3/4 bad games and now people want rid?

There are players there that have been crap for years and people still talk them up as "top top" players, I think we can carry Herrera for a few more months, no?

I like Herrera as a person, and for me is the type of player I like in the squad. Speaks well and isn't boring, was surprised on his arrival with how tenacious he is in a tackle and he has the little dark arts about him, which you totally justify when its your own player

I was always under the impression that Ander suffered from Van Gaal and the system. But the longer it goes on, the more disappointed I get. Have felt for some time he is a player we could upgrade on, as he just hasn't hit a level I think is good enough to be a starter.

No qualms about him being a squad player, but at times he hits a level whereby he can start for a big enough club. It's just not consistently there. He has a wonderful set of feet, has good vision, tenacious, good engine, clearly understands instruction and is really good at improvising in the game and getting messages around.

But there is always more I think is there, that I just don't see often enough.

I think this season while he has been poor there is mitigating circumstances. Matic was bought and he was instantly dropped, and there is all the stories about some ructions between himself and the manager, and that was before Mourinho oddly flung him under it after Huddersfield.

He'd be in a midfield 3 for me with Pogba and Matic, as a box to box style midfielder where I think he excels. I just think he is a player that isn't going to work out with restrictions and constraints, which he has had under Van Gaal and now Mourinho and likely will have at Athletico?

I actually thought it was telling he DIDN'T get a new contract in the summer considering he was entering the tail end, after his performances, the love the fans have for him. Made me wonder if Jose was just putting up with him, or knew he could get better, or there is **** behind the scenes.

Which is weird. Jose last season mentioned Hererra as one of the smartest players he has ever had, outlining how he just "gets" football and his improvisation during a game is something becoming rare these days, and even reigned in that critism after Totenham, I spose when the manager realised the narrative being built.

Not a player I'd say I'd shrug my shoulders about if left, really want him to stay and succeed, a player I've a lot of time for. I'm just not sure if we are getting to see the best of him enough, and that lies both with manager and player himself.

TheDoc

Pheonix10 wrote: »

We should be getting 30m for Shaw in the current market. Even with no game time he is young and someone will take him.

The counter arguement would be we have totally stalled a prospect and broken him. Which is hard to argue against, I'd imagine there is a lot of tough negotiations going to happen with him.

Although as one of my mates said, get onto Levy, give him Shaw and 20m for Rose and just get it over with....

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Maybe his attitude and application are sh1t in training and he hasn't worked his way to deserving that chance.

He could get fit but running, and putting in work on the training pitch, to get to a point where he can even play an U23 match and not look like he has just returned from a summer in Ibiza.

I think there is great potential in Shaw, and i was delighted when we signed him but it doesn't look like it is working out and I don't think that can be blamed on Mourinho. If Shaw at left back gave United a better chance of winning a football match then any other option available to Jose I believe he would play Shaw. The fact Shaw isn't playing ahead of Ashley Young, Daily Blind or Darmian at left back tells me there is an issue with Luke Shaw.

Considering I take nothing Jose says at face value, and there has been absolutely zero independent reporting or indication of Shaw's attitude, bar him being totally perplexed with life at the club and absolutely no idea what the manager wants or expects from him.

All just sounds like the manager made his mind up early. He's the best LB at the club bar none, and should be provided every opportunity to get into the team. This is the same player Mourinho was frothing over at Chelsea.

Maybe he just has a perception that Shaw isn't one of the "tough bstards" the manager loves, and maybe thinks Shaw is about the money and stuff after he snubbed Chelsea. Wouldn't put it past him to hold a grudge over something so stupid or irrelevant tbh

bucketybuck

Thats the sort of **** that just gets people rolling their eyes. Shaw has been criticised by 4 different managers now and couldn't get into the United team long before Jose ever came near the club, but no, its Mourinho's fault. He has a grudge. :rolleyes:

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats the sort of **** that just gets people rolling their eyes. Shaw has been criticised by 4 different managers now and couldn't get into the United team long before Jose ever came near the club, but no, its Mourinho's fault. He has a grudge. :rolleyes:

saying stuff like this doesnt help the situation..

Manager Jose Mourinho said Luke Shaw used "his body with my brain" during Manchester United's 1-1 draw with Everton and has told the club's young players they need to "grow up" quickly.

Defender Shaw, 21, made his first appearance since January on Tuesday night and it was his injury-time shot that led to the penalty from which Zlatan Ibrahimovic equalised.

"He was in front of me and I was making every decision for him," said Mourinho.

"He has to change his football brain."

"We need his fantastic physical and technical qualities but he cannot play with my brain," added the Old Trafford manager, who sent on Shaw only after Ashley Young's injury.

"He must accelerate the process. Twenty-one is old enough to have a better understanding. He has a future here but Manchester United cannot wait."

bangkok

its a weakness in Mourinho regarding shaw, he said has much himself..

“I think it’s probably my weakness as a manager, that it’s difficult for me to understand people with a different mentality to what I have.“It’s difficult to understand so it takes me time to understand and sometimes I’m not able to feel attracted (to the player again).
“Sometimes I ask my assistants to help me on that because maybe they have a different profile to me."

if mourinho cannot change his attitude, its a major flaw and one which shaw will never come back from, but i dont think there is any reason to humiliate shaw

You guys are crazy, what does Jose like more then anything.. Winning... If he thought Shaw would help him with that he would be in the team, he might be gone in the summer if he didn't like him but barring a major falling out he would play him if he was good enough.

If your good enough and work hard enough you will play under jose.

I know it doesn't suit the bash jose Narrative but its much closer to the truth the whats being spouted

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

its a weakness in Mourinho regarding shaw, he said has much himself..

“I think it’s probably my weakness as a manager, that it’s difficult for me to understand people with a different mentality to what I have.“It’s difficult to understand so it takes me time to understand and sometimes I’m not able to feel attracted (to the player again).
“Sometimes I ask my assistants to help me on that because maybe they have a different profile to me."

if mourinho cannot change his attitude, its a major flaw and one which shaw will never come back from, but i dont think there is any reason to humiliate shaw

Yeah shaw definitely shouldn’t change his attitude :rolleyes:

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Yeah shaw definitely shouldn’t change his attitude :rolleyes:

some players need to be managed differently. its not all black and white

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

some players need to be managed differently. its not all black and white

4 different managers have questioned his attitude, it’s the very definition of black and white.. the buck stops with the player in this case

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

some players need to be managed differently. its not all black and white

And again you have no idea whats been done/tried with Shaw.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

And again you have no idea whats been done/tried with Shaw.

neither does anyone on here, its all speculation, but what is being said in public and giving a player 5 mins at the end of a league cup game is hardly going to do any good is it??

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

neither does anone on here, its all speculation, but what is being said in public and giving a player 5 mins at the end of a league cup game is hardly going to do any good is it??

I'd rather take believe that the player is the issue considering 4 different managers have had the same issues with the same player

adox

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd rather take believe that the player is the issue considering 4 different managers have had the same issues with the same player

Its blatantly obvious for most people.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Considering I take nothing Jose says at face value, and there has been absolutely zero independent reporting or indication of Shaw's attitude, bar him being totally perplexed with life at the club and absolutely no idea what the manager wants or expects from him.

All just sounds like the manager made his mind up early. He's the best LB at the club bar none, and should be provided every opportunity to get into the team. This is the same player Mourinho was frothing over at Chelsea.

Maybe he just has a perception that Shaw isn't one of the "tough bstards" the manager loves, and maybe thinks Shaw is about the money and stuff after he snubbed Chelsea. Wouldn't put it past him to hold a grudge over something so stupid or irrelevant tbh

Indeed.

But LVG and Hodgson have also questioned Shaw, and I think pochetino commented on his attitude at Southampton in his recent book too.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Indeed.

But LVG and Hodgson have also questioned Shaw, and I think pochetino commented on his attitude at Southampton in his recent book too.

yes they all questioned shaw but they still played him, Pochetino made him the best left back in the league and we signed him for 30m. he needs games, no player can get fit by sitting in the stands or on the bench

J. Marston

Where does Bale play these days? Left, right, through the middle?

Last thing we need is another left-sided player.

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

Where does Bale play these days? Left, right, through the middle?

Last thing we need is another left-sided player.

when fit normally plays through the middle or right

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

yes they all questioned shaw but they still played him, Pochetino made him the best left back in the league and we signed him for 30m. he needs games, no player can get fit by sitting in the stands or on the bench

Really? Because Van Gaal sat Shaw's ass on the bench for most of his first season, and then the same again after he returned from injury. And Hodgson played Baines as first choice ahead of him. Imagine that.

For everybody else, an interesting quote from Shaws Wiki page:

In January 2013, Shaw was set to be called up for the first time to the England under-21 team for the following month's friendly against Sweden, with then-manager Stuart Pearce calling the Southampton defender "an outstanding talent".[38] Unfortunately though, due to an injury picked up in training, he was later forced to pull out of the match.[39] The uncapped defender was subsequently called up for matches against Romania on 21 March,[40] Austria on 25 March,[40] and Scotland on 13 August,[41] as well as the UEFA European Under-21 Championship,[42] all of which he had to pull out of for the same reason

Meaningless I know, but it serves to highlight the player we are discussing here.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Really? Because Van Gaal sat Shaw's ass on the bench for most of his first season, and then the same again after he returned from injury. And Hodgson played Baines as first choice ahead of him. Imagine that.

For everybody else, an interesting quote from Shaws Wiki page:

Meaningless I know, but it serves to highlight the player we are discussing here.

he played 20 games in van Gaals first season... the perfect way to manage a young player at a big club

J. Marston

bangkok wrote: »

when fit normally plays through the middle or right

In that case, buy buy buy.

I'd take any half-decent right winger at United right now. Ridiculous that we completely ignore that side of the field in attacks.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

he played 20 games in van Gaals first season... the perfect way to manage a young player at a big club

He sat on his ass because Van Gaal though he wasn't fit enough, who do you think you are trying to spoof here?

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

In that case, buy buy buy.

I'd take any half-decent right winger at United right now. Ridiculous that we completely ignore that side of the field in attacks.

Mohamed Salah was a perfect player to sign, went relatively cheap as well

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats the sort of **** that just gets people rolling their eyes. Shaw has been criticised by 4 different managers now and couldn't get into the United team long before Jose ever came near the club, but no, its Mourinho's fault. He has a grudge. :rolleyes:

It's completely unclear what Mourinho is doing, bar slating him, to in anyway indicate what the problem is, or what needs to be done. It's all very easy for the manager to put his narrative out which he always does, which can rarely ever be taken at face value.

You shouldn't put Mourinho under the same brush as Van Gaal or Pochetino. There are some known issues with Shaw dating back to his Southampton days around weight, and the assumed associated mental difficulties that brings for an elite professional.

It shouldn't be confused with "not being arsed" which is basically the line most people have just assumed taken from the manager.

Van Gaal and Pochetino both commented on his weight, but both were full of praise and affirmation when he addressed those issues. I've just heard Mourinho slate him, and considering he is not giving the lad a chance anywhere in any game, I think it's just all conveniant for him, as he probably would prefer to go sign an established left back than having to deal with moulding and potentially dealing with mistakes from a young LB.

Look I never bought into the hype with Shaw, but I certainly did at the start of Van Gaal's second season where him and Darmian looked an absolutely incredible combo. It's mostly other people that indicate Shaw was the best LB in the league before we signed him, and an incredible prospect, so I don't know I'm surprised at the lack of real interest that seems to be taking place.

Just don't ever buy into Mourinhos "attitude" smokescreen cause for me it just covers up his shortcomings.

Maybe instead of Shaw it was Martial or Rashford, there'd be more stink about it?

adox

Remember the shock and outrage when Van Gaal didnt play Shaw and publicy told him to get fit, to lose weight etc.

Fast forward to 2017......

Ship him out and buy a left back. Its really as simple as that.

Trying to lay it at Mourinhos door is being willfully ignorant.

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

4 different managers have questioned his attitude, it’s the very definition of black and white.. the buck stops with the player in this case

Who are these four managers questioning his attitude?

Pochetino outlined he has issues with his weight control and needs to work harder then others. A coach in Southampton outlined Shaw is one of those physiques and he can pile on weight quicker then others (in the football category) and he used to get pretty down over it.

Van Gaal simply said he wasn't fit and right coming back to pre-season, to which Hodgson agreed and Shaw addressed.

They've outlined a specific issue which he addressed, is there maybe something else the manager wants to share about Shaw, or just keep up the assumption he is "lazy" or has some attitude problem

WinnyThePoo

Using shaw to try and get a dig on mourinho is pretty weak.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Remember the shock and outrage when Van Gaal didnt play Shaw and publicy told him to get fit, to lose weight etc.

Fast forward to 2017......

Ship him out and buy a left back. Its really as simple as that.

Trying to lay it at Mourinhos door is being willfully ignorant.

I'm in total agreement. Shaw is a player that if he is gone tomorrow I'll shrug my shoulders. Yeah what might of been, but cut your losses. Jones would be someone there as well for me. You need reliable players.

I'm maybe just saying, there might be a different reaction if it was a more important player, or a Martial and Rashford, and I think Shaw gets a raw deal about this "attitude" stuff, where as maybe someone who struggled with weight as a teen and was the constant reason I used to get for failed trials and stuff, that I appreciate the mental issues that brings when you need to work harder then everyone else, nevermind in an elite sporting environment.

It's the Memphis situation again. No one really cares when its a player not playing, or living up to expectations and it's cool to just rail in on the attitude issues. And it's just a blissfully convenient excuse for a manager not able to maximise talent. And that's fine, it doesn't always work out.

Surely if there was real attitude problems or issues, Shaw would get relegated to the under 21's, so it's made really obvious to everyone the player is the problem?

This is just boring int break stuff btw, I just like to look into the prospect that there isn't an attitude issue with Shaw? Considering there is no indication of it, bar the manager, who you can barely believe a word out of his mouth. Just think Jose is unbearable and to be honest pretty pathetic with the way he handles things and I hate how it's a lot of times never questioned or this nonsense about it being "genius" man management, just like his joke of a "jose masterclass" ****e that gets attached when he knicks a 1-0 away from home, albeit he hasn't done that in donkeys.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Pochetino outlined he has issues with his weight control and needs to work harder then others. A coach in Southampton outlined Shaw is one of those physiques and he can pile on weight quicker then others (in the football category) and he used to get pretty down over it.

I felt his head was not in the right place [at Southampton] to make the sacrifices and decisions that are necessary at that age

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/31/luke-shaws-attitude-and-work-rate-held-him-back-at-southampton-reveals-mauricio-pochettino-7042052/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

That reads like a lot more than stating Shaw has to keep an eye on his weight more.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I felt his head was not in the right place [at Southampton] to make the sacrifices and decisions that are necessary at that age

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/31/luke-shaws-attitude-and-work-rate-held-him-back-at-southampton-reveals-mauricio-pochettino-7042052/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

That reads like a lot more than stating Shaw has to keep an eye on his weight more.

but he was still first choice left back and was the best left back in the league, even made pfa team of the year that season

Donnielighto

Adamocovic wrote: »

Nope, not when they are spouting muck.

bucketybuck

Whats next I wonder?

- Mourinho ruined Rooney! "All he needed was a hug"

- Mourinho wrecked Valencias crossing! "Its clearly the coaching thats the problem"

- Mourinho is why Jones keeps getting injured! "He was fine until he got here"

- Mourinho forced Giggs into early retirement! "Think about it..."

bangkok

Miguel Delaney article on Jose

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/jose-mourinhos-open-courting-of-psg-makes-relationship-with-manchester-united-less-special-magic-or-fantastic-36315457.html

Trigger

bucketybuck wrote: »

Whats next I wonder?

- Mourinho ruined Rooney! "All he needed was a hug"

- Mourinho wrecked Valencias crossing! "Its clearly the coaching thats the problem"

- Mourinho is why Jones keeps getting injured! "He was fine until he got here"

- Mourinho forced Giggs into early retirement! "Think about it..."

Close enough, just that he ruined Man Utd

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Miguel Delaney article on Jose

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/jose-mourinhos-open-courting-of-psg-makes-relationship-with-manchester-united-less-special-magic-or-fantastic-36315457.html

Didn't Miguel Delaney confirm:

- We were going to sign Aurier once his visa came through
- We agreed a fee with Inter for Perisic
- We were close to signing James from Real


Seems reliable. And thats just from this summer

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

Didn't Miguel Delaney confirm:

- We were going to sign Aurier once his visa came through
- We agreed a fee with Inter for Perisic
- We were close to signing James from Real


Seems reliable. And thats just from this summer

In fairness to Miguel he does have some sources in the game and can be as good as any Journo out there. The problem it is an opinion piece and he seems to have a serious gripe with Jose which means any opinion piece he writes will only be slanted one way

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Didn't Miguel Delaney confirm:

- We were going to sign Aurier once his visa came through
- We agreed a fee with Inter for Perisic
- We were close to signing James from Real


Seems reliable. And thats just from this summer

you could go back on any sports journalist and they will be wrong on many things, but at the time of writing, what they are saying probably has a lot of truth to it

Son Of A Vidic

adox wrote: »

Remember the shock and outrage when Van Gaal didnt play Shaw and publicy told him to get fit, to lose weight etc.

Fast forward to 2017......

Ship him out and buy a left back. Its really as simple as that.

Trying to lay it at Mourinhos door is being willfully ignorant.

We couldn't f**k him out the door quick enough imo. As you said, LVG highlighted his conditioning and also his attitude a few years back. So when a player has done nothing under two managers, then you look at the player not the managers. As for the leg break excuse? Back in 2010, Valencia's foot was nearly severed with a horrific injury. And I don't ever remember him sitting on the sidelines, getting fat and sulking. So Shaw out the door for me in January please.

Rayne Wooney

Even signing Bale you’d need a Griezmann too because odds are Bale won’t play much more than 20 games.