Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

To be honest I think the fact he pretty much plays an entire side of a pitch by himself incredibly special. Apart from his crossing being a bit crap he is an unbelievable athlete. His athleticism is special.

I should point out I'm not claiming Valencia to be some special right winger.

I'm just saying if it's genuinelly felt that stretching the opposition by having a wide winger is required, there is tools and people there that can implement that tactical requirement.

I'll be honest with I don't see it. We already play a pretty high wingback line when dominant in possesion. So this winger craic is being painted to deal with the scenarios where we have to combat deep sitting defences.

In those scenarios, we already have our full backs providing width. Another is going to make a difference?

Is the assumption that with two player out wide, it draws two opposition players out to create space behind?

I'm not being snooty btw, I'm genuinely not understanding why it would be a big deal and am happy to have it explained.

In my head it looks like the same scenario as last season, Valencia or LB pumping in crosses and it just being dealt with easily. We have players like Rashford and Martial who can beat people 1v1, but in that packed scenario they normally run into a second and quickly a third defender.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Thought there would be an argument, that in the scenario where we are struggling to break down a team who are sitting deep, that team will also compact the middle, and I would have thought general thinking is its playing into that teams hands, if you are just firing balls in from wide.

Aerial crosses are any CB's bread and butter, and in that compact situation a winger hitting the byline for a cutback, is usually hitting a hit and hope to trying find a team mate in a packed box.

I think it's an issue we are going to have to deal with, contend with, probably get upset by throughout the season, wether we have a wide player or not.

I don't envisage that having a winger will somehow draw out a CB to close him down, therefore providing some space in behind for a #10 or whatever. I know that is the thinking, but when you see it in practice, the midfielders are usually covering that space, and then the crosses are just bread and butter.

Point being I think we are going to have that problem regardless, and a winger isn't going to unlock that problem for us.

Wingers beating full backs even in compact areas will create space and draw out CBs unless a team is playing so deep the midfielders are in line with the cbs. Either way anytime be it through passing or dribbling you can disrupt a teams defensive shape its a good thing. I thing Marhez has the qualities to do both where mata can only do it through passing and movement

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

Where are the links with Mahrez coming from? Anything solid?

Himself and Mata competing and rotating on the right would be very welcome.

Posted I wouln't really fancy him, but then seeing your post its the same thing I'm delighted about on our left, with two players pushing each other raising each others games.

So maybe that is a welcome thing to the right. Mahrez would be drastically different to Mata and Lingaard, who are the two I figure are competing on that right side.

Would really like to see Lingaard come on a bit this season, I still am unsure about him but I tilt more to "not good enough". He's a clever mover, has pace, in theory should be heir to Mata but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired and doesn't seem to have enough end product in terms of goals or assists.

Would love a penny to drop with him, as he's another player with pace to burn and a lovely interlinking player.

TheDoc

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If there is a player available that makes your starting 11 stronger and you can afford him.


Then sign him.

Think there should still be considerations for squad harmony, cohesion and developement. All well and good bringing in Sanchez. Will expect to start every game, and probably rightly so. He doesn't seem to like being rested.

All of a sudden you've put a big barrier in front of Martial and Rashford. While there is clear reasons and validity to getting a monster XI and just win ****, there has to be considerations made for the immediate future, nevermind longer term developement.

The situation between Martial and Rashford looks very good at the moment. Very competitive, getting two young players hungry and competing with each other, and by all accounts they get on very well with each other also, so it's not causing animosity. And there is occasions they will both play, either on the wings opposite each other or one through the middle.

Not sure if bringing Sanchez in for two seasons is worth hampering what could be our core attack for the next X years, especially when they have started the way they have.

I'd trust Mourinho is meticulous and has plans and ideas that arn't only immediate but more medium term. Considering Sanchez was well known to likely be available before the summer even started and we didn't do anything, I'd imagine the manager is happy with the Martial/Rashford combo, as I know I bloody am having seen how they've started.

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Wingers beating full backs even in compact areas will create space and draw out CBs unless a team is playing so deep the midfielders are in line with the cbs. Either way anytime be it through passing or dribbling you can disrupt a teams defensive shape its a good thing. I thing Marhez has the qualities to do both where mata can only do it through passing and movement

Isn't the issues we had though, apart from brutal finishing, was in those scenarios where at times its just teams camping the box. We get desperate, throw on Fellaini, crosses whipped in, easy pickings for most CB's.

And as that pressure piles on, opposition sit deeper and deeper . I'm not so sure in that scenario if a winger skins the FB, the CB is going marauding over to cover, they typically sit in defending the six yard box and let the covering CM/side sided midfielder deal with it.

Think what we have on the break is lethal, even thinking back to that Everton game I think last season Lingaard and Rashford slicing through them at will. (Or might have been someone else) So teams that come onto us (one for the big games) we could get great joy on the counter.

beakerjoe

jayo26 wrote: »

I wasn't been complacent you are misunderstanding my post and jumping on it I'm one if the least complacent posters here.

My point was after each game this year we were talking about performances of all said above players and they were improving and playing well and so on.... my point was just because other teams sign one or two late players it will not mean that our current team will turn out to be any worse they will still do what they are going to this season.

Of course I winger like Sanchez would improve us but if we ain't getting him we do with what we have and what we have ain't so bad.

That fair. I do think that while they have appeared to improved and Jose seems to be handling them well, I do think its good to bring in another player for squad depth.

If we get a few injuries to Lukaku and 2 or 3 other attacking players, it be great to have an other option like Mahrez (Id rather him than Sanchez based on Sanchezs attitude).

We suffered last year with squad depth when we lost 3 midfielders and 1 striker in the second half of the season. Mahrez for me was teh only player who looked capable of scoring against us last Sat and he wouldnt be a bad signing considering the price tag.

jayo26

beakerjoe wrote: »

That fair. I do think that while they have appeared to improved and Jose seems to be handling them well, I do think its good to bring in another player for squad depth.

If we get a few injuries to Lukaku and 2 or 3 other attacking players, it be great to have an other option like Mahrez (Id rather him than Sanchez based on Sanchezs attitude).

We suffered last year with squad depth when we lost 3 midfielders and 1 striker in the second half of the season. Mahrez for me was teh only player who looked capable of scoring against us last Sat and he wouldnt be a bad signing considering the price tag.

We already have one of biggest squads in league if we don't have enough dept then Chelsea and pool are doomed even if they make all these signings.

I think what Jose does is adds bit by bit to his squad it's more about balance and and not adding too many pieces at one time to upset the balance and it's a good way.

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

If we get a few injuries to Lukaku and 2 or 3 other attacking players, it be great to have an other option like Mahrez (Id rather him than Sanchez based on Sanchezs attitude).

Just on this, I have to admit I actually like the attitude in a way. It's a winner's attitude, one of a player who demands the absolute best from those around him. I'd love to see that winner's mentality when he had Pogba, Lukaku and so on around him too. He seems desperate to win titles, and is frustrated that Arsenal haven't backed him or the team to do that (if anything, it looks like Arsenal are going to be getting even weaker in the next two days...).

Or is there something specific about his attitude I've not read about?

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Just on this, I have to admit I actually like the attitude in a way. It's a winner's attitude, one of a player who demands the absolute best from those around him. I'd love to see that winner's mentality when he had Pogba, Lukaku and so on around him too. He seems desperate to win titles, and is frustrated that Arsenal haven't backed him or the team to do that (if anything, it looks like Arsenal are going to be getting even weaker in the next two days...).

Or is there something specific about his attitude I've not read about?

To be honest I find his antics on the pitch petulant. This arm throwing and giving out to his team mates seems more pandering to the crowd, frustration they arn't as good as him or whatever.

Seeing reports this morning Arsenal players want him gone, there has been plenty of indications and reports (I'm not an Arsenal fan so I don't know the validity) that many players don't like the way he goes on, as some pleading to the crowd how its not his fault, hes trying, but his team mates arn't good enough.

That's how I've always read his behaviour anyway, that if I was in that dressing room (ties back to the weak Arsenal character they have) you'd be going through him for a short cut asking who he thought he was making out like I was no good.

I appreciate why he gets annoyed like he does, must be incredibly frustrating being a talented player in that basket case club. But I find those sort of antics he does pretty off putting, his strops, his shirt over his face at the end kneeling down, his little smirking on the bench.

I wouldn't put it down as a reason not to sign him, hes a fantastic player, but I just rail a bit against the credit and **** he gets from the UK pundits and press pack about his "passion" and "drive", it's as self serving as any other selfish player.

Kerrydude1981

Deleted User wrote: »

Dam you Duncan or well played Duncan trying to get us a better price.

Crap I spent the whole summer avoiding all the transfser stuff but with the football back on Ive been pulled in.

Sign them all Snahcez, Lemar, Marhez play 15 a side

Sweeper or blanket defence?

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

He's a jack of all trades who is consistently good but rarely special.

I think it will be a priority next summer to seek a replacement (if the Aurier news was true, we were after one this summer), as the wing back positions will be an issue next summer. We've got out midfield sorted, center backs sorted, and I'd imagine Griezmann will be out "wide player" signing. I'd imagine the focus then will be on new LB and RB players.

They will only look to replace valencia or have competition as his age will be catching up with him but as a player he is fantastic. He is a tank and gets through serious work down the right had side with little or no protection in front of him. I hope fosu mensah has a great season with palace and comes back into the united team as our new rb

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

Isn't the issues we had though, apart from brutal finishing, was in those scenarios where at times its just teams camping the box. We get desperate, throw on Fellaini, crosses whipped in, easy pickings for most CB's.

And as that pressure piles on, opposition sit deeper and deeper . I'm not so sure in that scenario if a winger skins the FB, the CB is going marauding over to cover, they typically sit in defending the six yard box and let the covering CM/side sided midfielder deal with it.

Think what we have on the break is lethal, even thinking back to that Everton game I think last season Lingaard and Rashford slicing through them at will. (Or might have been someone else) So teams that come onto us (one for the big games) we could get great joy on the counter.

Yep. This is why the need for a winger glued to the byline bemuses me. You don't see Shawcross, McAuley, Dann charging out to the flanks. They stay central and let the Fletcher, Yacob, Milivojevic track back. You dont win games getting to the corner flag. Sooner or later player or ball has to come central. Thats where these CB's stay waiting. A common trait of these CB's is size over speed so having a double point of Mkhitaryan and/or Mata feeding through balls behind these lads is the best way. They stay central waiting. Thats what the truly solid defensive sides do that just want a draw. They use giant fairly immobile CB's solely to defend right in front of the goal while normally two holding midfielders do the running.

bangkok

Aurier is off to tottenham. 23m

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep. This is why the need for a winger glued to the byline bemuses me. You don't see Shawcross, McAuley, Dann charging out to the flanks. They stay central and let the Fletcher, Yacob, Milivojevic track back. You dont win games getting to the corner flag. Sooner or later player or ball has to come central. Thats where these CB's stay waiting. A common trait of these CB's is size over speed so having a double point of Mkhitaryan and/or Mata feeding through balls behind these lads is the best way. They stay central waiting. Thats what the truly solid defensive sides do that just want a draw.

My point is United don't have a winger to put in crosses naturally. They don't need to stay on the wing or by the corner flag. But they need to be able to get there are deliver the ball from there. United's wide front players will all look to come inside. United lack an option to play a different way and give the opposition a different approach to defend.

It isn't about playing a winger and making him put in 100 crosses and hoping something comes off, it is about having an actual winger that can play in that way and go outside the full back to cross - with high quality.

Valencia doesn't do it. (He obviously goes outside but his final ball is poor for the amount of chances he has to put it in)
Blind doesn't do it.
Rojo doesn't do it.
Darmian doesn't do it.
Shaw needs to show if he can do it.
Martial doesn't do it (on the left)
Rashford doesn't do it (on the left - have seen him do it on occasion from a right sided position).
Mata doesn't do it.
Mkhitaryan doesn't do it.

Again, i'm not saying I want a winger that can only do that - Perisic is more of a throw back winger than any of them but he also cuts in to shoot - that is what I would like to see, someone who can go either side, and offer different threats to the full back. As it is, the full back knows the attacker is looking to come inside, or that the delivery is likely to be poor.

Mitch Connor

Peak transfer window reporting:

https://twitter.com/DExpress_Sport/status/902856224051474432

"Man Utd transfer news: Jose Mourinho spotted on the phone in London ahead of deadline day #MUFC"

Liam McPoyle

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Peak transfer window reporting:

https://twitter.com/DExpress_Sport/status/902856224051474432

"Man Utd transfer news: Jose Mourinho spotted on the phone in London ahead of deadline day #MUFC"

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Peak transfer window reporting:

https://twitter.com/DExpress_Sport/status/902856224051474432

"Man Utd transfer news: Jose Mourinho spotted on the phone in London ahead of deadline day #MUFC"

Calling in a chinese from his local takeaway!!

Cantona's Collars

Next,José spotted at ATM,we are definitely signing somebody.:)

Cotts72

I think a winger is imperative and would be very disappointed if we didn't make a late bid for someone. our left flank is a worry for me and has looked that big weaker. we are lacking a a traditional style winger that can take players on and provide that final killer cross

beakerjoe

No solid news about United makes me think we are done buying as was suggested a few weeks back.

At least we arent buying Jonny Evans

KH25

zerks wrote: »

Next,José spotted at ATM,we are definitely signing somebody.:)

Deal scuppered because the ATM only gave out €50s.

bangkok

Its gas, we are looking for another signing after already signing 3 solid players. Imagine being an arsenal supporter right now :eek:

dave_o_brien

bangkok wrote: »

Its gas, we are looking for another signing after already signing 3 solid players. Imagine being an arsenal supporter right now :eek:

And having won the first three games in a manner that has our goal difference BETTER than our points tally without conceding a single goal.

beakerjoe

bangkok wrote: »

Its gas, we are looking for another signing after already signing 3 solid players. Imagine being an arsenal supporter right now :eek:

Linderoff - The Jury is still out on.

beakerjoe

dave_o_brien wrote: »

And having won the first three games in a manner that has our goal difference BETTER than our points tally without conceding a single goal.

Again 1 decent team and 2 poor teams

Lord TSC

beakerjoe wrote: »

Again 1 decent team and 2 poor teams

You can o lay beat who is put in front of you. We did it decisively while every other big team stumbled against similar decent and poor teams...

Giggsy11

Shame we are not interested in signing player like Mahrez, he would be very good addition to the first team. Our threat from right wing is poor as Mata drifts centrally and only way to attack from right side is just put in a cross. If we sign Mahrez then our right side would be as good as Left side.

Cotts72

dave_o_brien wrote: »

And having won the first three games in a manner that has our goal difference BETTER than our points tally without conceding a single goal.

When we come up against a more organised defence it wont be as easy. look at the Leicester game for example, Maguire played out of his skin and kept us at bay for the majority of the game.

Blind has great distribution but pace is zero and can be exposed. Shaw will make a difference if he regains form but a capable LW infront of him is definitely needed

Cotts72

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Shame we are not interested in signing player like Mahrez, he would be very good addition to the first team. Our threat from right wing is poor as Mata drifts centrally and only way to attack from right side is just put in a cross. If we sign Mahrez then our right side would be as good as Left side.

Id argue that our Left side is pretty poor! Blind is lacking in pace,Rashford and Martial offer serious potential but haven't made that side their own yet

jayo26

Cotts72 wrote: »

When we come up against a more organised defence it wont be as easy. look at the Leicester game for example, Maguire played out of his skin and kept us at bay for the majority of the game.

Blind has great distribution but pace is zero and can be exposed. Shaw will make a difference if he regains form but a capable LW infront of him is definitely needed

No games are gonna be easy but we still managed to win the game and broke them down eventually. A player like maherez or another average winger is not going to be the difference in playing a team like city or Chelsea the difference will be tactics and team spirit.

I agree we need a wide player but we don't need an average winger we already have better then that.

Giggsy11

Cotts72 wrote: »

Id argue that our Left side is pretty poor! Blind is lacking in pace,Rashford and Martial offer serious potential but haven't made that side their own yet

Our left wing is strong with average LB, Our right wing is poor with good RB. So signing Mahrez means our right side would be very good and with Shaw back LB will be addressed.

Right now attacking threat from Left side > Right side.

Cotts72

jayo26 wrote: »

No games are gonna be easy but we still managed to win the game and broke them down eventually. A player like maherez or another average winger is not going to be the difference in playing a team like city or Chelsea the difference will be tactics and team spirit.

I agree we need a wide player but we don't need an average winger we already have better then that.

Agreed, I dont think we need Mahrez as I find him and Mata to be very similar in playing styles. Id only consider Bale(if Madrid do want rid/he requests out)/Lemar as being the options we should be looking at. Perisic is a no go and Sanchez is city bound IMO.

Giggsy11

Cotts72 wrote: »

When we come up against a more organised defence it wont be as easy. look at the Leicester game for example, Maguire played out of his skin and kept us at bay for the majority of the game.

Blind has great distribution but pace is zero and can be exposed. Shaw will make a difference if he regains form but a capable LW infront of him is definitely needed

Capable LW? We have Martial and don't think any player we sign would be better long term signing than him.

S.M.B.

We can't even decide if we need a Left Winger or a Right Winger let alone who that winger should be.

magnumbud

S.M.B. wrote: »

We can't even decide if we need a Left Winger or a Right Winger let alone who that winger should be.

solution = sign both :pac:

Mitch Connor

S.M.B. wrote: »

We can't even decide if we need a Left Winger or a Right Winger let alone who that winger should be.

I'd have always plumped for a right sided player, with Rashford keeping place on the left. But our moves for Perisic indicates Jose had different plans. Maybe he wanted Perisic as a wing back?

---

Rashford-Lukaku

---

Mkhitaryan
Perisic

---

Matic

---

Pogba----Valencia

---

Rojo----Lindelof---Bailly

---

De Gea

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd have always plumped for a right sided player, with Rashford keeping place on the left. But our moves for Perisic indicates Jose had different plans. Maybe he wanted Perisic as a wing back?

---

Rashford-Lukaku

---

Mkhitaryan
Perisic

---

Matic

---

Pogba----Valencia

---

Rojo----Lindelof---Bailly

---

De Gea

While I staunchly dislike a back 3 the idea of pairing Ibrahimovic and Lukaku up top is great. So Mr. Pulis you think McAuley, Dawson, Hegazy are strong CB's that can withstand attacks. Try dealing with these two beasts of men :pac:

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

While I staunchly dislike a back 3 the idea of pairing Ibrahimovic and Lukaku up top is great. So Mr. Pulis you think McAuley, Dawson, Hegazy are strong CB's that can withstand attacks. Try dealing with these two beasts of men :pac:

Swap Mkhi for Fellaini then :P

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Swap Mkhi for Fellaini then :P

It will be some craic later in the season chasing a game with

Lukakau, Pogba, Fellaini, Ibra, Matic all waiting in the box for a cross only for Valencia to cross to no one

bangkok

beakerjoe wrote: »

Again 1 decent team and 2 poor teams

You get the same number of points for beating west ham that you do chelsea. Beating all the weaker teams and being solid at home against city chelsea etc means you win the league

beakerjoe

bangkok wrote: »

You get the same number of points for beating west ham that you do chelsea. Beating all the weaker teams and being solid at home against city chelsea etc means you win the league

But we havent played City or Chelsea. We had a similar start last year beating weak teams then were brought back down to earth against City at home. Look our we ended in the league. Our squad hasnt really changed bar Matic. (Lukaku basicly replaced Ibra and Linderoff is still settling in. )

user2011

beakerjoe wrote: »

But we havent played City or Chelsea. We had a similar start last year beating weak teams then were brought back down to earth against City at home. Look our we ended in the league. Our squad hasnt really changed bar Matic. (Lukaku basicly replaced Ibra and Linderoff is still settling in. )

Didn't have Matic then :cool:

Whatsisname

Can we all establish it's

Lingard

and

Lindelof

sorry not sorry :pac:

beakerjoe

user2011 wrote: »

Didn't have Matic then :cool:

He may be the missing piece, Im not debating that. he could easily be a game changer but Id rather not rest on him alone.

beakerjoe

Whatsisname wrote: »

Can we all establish it's

Lingard

and

Lindelof

sorry not sorry :pac:

Linder who

0gac3yjefb5sv7

beakerjoe wrote: »

But we havent played City or Chelsea. We had a similar start last year beating weak teams then were brought back down to earth against City at home. Look our we ended in the league. Our squad hasnt really changed bar Matic. (Lukaku basicly replaced Ibra and Linderoff is still settling in. )

This is definitely not true. The two additions of Matic and Lukaku don't just improve their respective positions, they allow the style of play to move up a few gears, improving the performance of other players also.

MagicIRL

Whatsisname wrote: »

Can we all establish it's

Lindelof

sorry not sorry :pac:

I'm 25 and can't read Lindelof without this playing on loop in my immature head.

Whatsisname

beakerjoe wrote: »

Linder who

When I say Lindel, you say lof,

Lindel...

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lindegaard

user2011

beakerjoe wrote: »

He may be the missing piece, Im not debating that. he could easily be a game changer but Id rather not rest on him alone.

I think there's a whole different feel coming from the player's. The frustration's we seen last season with the decent/weaker teams that everyone felt, feels like it's going to be different this year.

Someone has mentioned a few times it's the spreading out of the goalscorers that has them feeling positive about things, I agree with that. Also the amount of times Jose has said that he like's how confident the players are looking that's reinforcing this different feel the players are coming across.

Not saying we're winning the league (3 games) things just feel different from last seasons 3 games unbeaten start. The true confidence will show when we're 1-0 down with ten minutes to go, the opposition have 3 points to hold on to sit deep and we have to seriously push forward, can we create opportunities can we score them 1-1 1-2.