Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Minderbinder

Did Southampton even have a chance? I always felt comfortable we weren't going to concede. I was more pleased with that compared to the shambolic display for the majority of the Everton game.

S.M.B.

They had two proper chances from what I remember. There was the one Fellaini headed clear but I'm not 100% sure if this was going in. I think Romeu has a shot that De Gea easily saved at the near post but I'm pretty sure we would have been in big trouble had he looked up and played it across the box instead.

Also, it only takes one mistimed tackle in the box to change everything. The longer you spend camped on the edge of your box the likelier this is to happen. Fellaini was the unfortunate scapegoat in a very similar game 12 months ago where Jose decided to shut up shop against Everton who had dominated the second half of that game.

It's a risky strategy but there's such a fine margin between fans declaring that "3 points is 3 points no matter how many goals we score" and "Fellaini should never play in a United shirt ever again".

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

I'm not sure how much difference Pogba would have made. Southamptons midfield 3 was very good, Mkhitaryan will never exactly retain the ball a lot so Romeu/Lemina could win it early while Davis was buzzing around disrupting Fellaini/closing down Matic. Including Pogba would probably have only meant Lemina/Davis would be tracking Pogba constantly while Romeu just kept nicking the ball from Mkhitaryan.

Pogba would have made a huge difference considering he is one of the best midfielders in the world

jayo26

No action against Jose for the stupid sent to stands on saturday

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba would have made a huge difference considering he is one of the best midfielders in the world

So Pellegrino would have told Lemina and Davis not to follow him like flies to sh*t? Thats an interesting tactical point. Southampton had been designed basically to nullify. Thats why Shane Long was so isolated. They didnt bother keeping Davis pushed up against Matic and had their midfield 3 against our two advanced. Pogba would have just been doubled down on. Sure that would have negated some of thier offence as Davis/Lemina would have ended up much deeper than they were against Fellaini but it would have been a more packed defence from them. They were set out to frustrate mainly, it just happened they could eventually push up a bit more than they planned.

Hococop

jayo26 wrote: »

No action against Jose for the stupid sent to stands on saturday

That's that? He won't be in the stand the next game he can manage from the touch line?

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

So Pellegrino would have told Lemina and Davis not to follow him like flies to sh*t? Thats an interesting tactical point. Southampton had been designed basically to nullify. Thats why Shane Long was so isolated. They didnt bother keeping Davis pushed up against Matic and had their midfield 3 against our two advanced. Pogba would have just been doubled down on. Sure that would have negated some of thier offence as Davis/Lemina would have ended up much deeper than they were against Fellaini but it would have been a more packed defence from them. They were set out to frustrate mainly, it just happened they could eventually push up a bit more than they planned.

There defence wasn't the problem we broke three that early on it was when they went on the offensive we had no one in midfield to take the pressure off.

Even if pogba has two guys on him that means someone else is then free and I'd be confident of pogba still having the power and ability to hold his own been manmarked and closed down. That's what he does best the majority of the time he certainly does it better then any other of our midfielders.

jayo26

Hococop wrote: »

That's that? He won't be in the stand the next game he can manage from the touch line?

Yep seemingly ref report said no further action needed.

Jose came onto the pitch marginally shouting at his team and was sent off where as sky showed a clip of conte coming onto the pitch after the Luiz red card and screaming at the officials and no action against him at all.

Yes Jose reputation perceeds him but he has not had one ounce of trouble since the stupid water bottle incident last year that's over a year ago nearly he has been the calmer of all top half managers he didn't even protest when he was sent to stands he just shook hands and went off.

TheDoc

irishfeen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/911887726655557632

So this is apparently with Jose got sent off for... I know he has history with refs but Christ its becoming embarrassing for the refs, when u see Klopp acting the clown roaring into the faces of officials and coming out of his box.

Different rules for Jose it seems.

To be honest I was pretty furious again at that match with the standard of refereeing.

Mikes Jones (think that's is name) is a consistently poor referee every time I see him. There wasn't so much in terms of poor decisions for fouls or anything, but his judgement on yellow cards was terrible.

His booking on Ander was laughable. As the whistle blew he slid a pass into Lukakus feet, he clearly wasn't slowing down the retake. A few minutes later Jones, when the ball went out for a throw launched it into the stands, and wasn't booked. Perfectly encapsulated the completely brutal consistency going on.

Young got booked for a pretty innocuous nothing and then think Lukaku got booked for winning the ball in a good tackle.

That he had a perfect view on Shane Long raking Fellaini's calf and only deemed it a yellow, when it was a clear red card, was also laughable.

You had Redmond absolutely berate the linesman at one point, no booking for dissent.

The consistency and constant varying degree the rules and laws are interpreted is so annoying and frustrating.

The sending off for Jose was a total nonsense, captured by that donkey 4th official who is also a terrible referee. Imagine actually halting the game to call the ref over "here he stood on the pitch". You'd think the ref would have some bottle and be like "yeah ok, Jose, can you stay in your area please, last time I'll say it to you".

Laughable stuff at this level of the game.

MagicIRL

Are Matic and Fellaini injured?

I think Carrick has to start against CSKA if Matic is carrying any sort of knock. I would like to see Herrera in too but not if it means Mhkitaryan gets put anywhere near LW.

TheDoc

KH25 wrote: »

He shouldn't be on the pitch so no issue with that from me. But as you said it really is different rules for different managers. It's just another example of the shocking standard of officiating in the league. If another manager did the same I seriously doubt he would have been sent off.

What grates me is the behaviour of Conte,Pep and Klopp, of which neither have even got a warning or anything and it's brushed of as "passion" and "enthusiasm". Our manager shows passion by kicking a bottle and gets sent off, or eager to convey a message to his players encroaches the pitch a yard and gets sent off.

I don't buy any of Jose's conspiracy theories, but it is just plain fact he is treated differently to other managers.

I've seen instances of those three managers be much more aggressive and in the face of officials then I've seen Jose ever do, and yet nothing. The level of consistency is so poor and so frustrating.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The team were rubbish at maintaining control yesterday, and I don't think there is anything Jose could have done but didn't - players just didn't step up and impose themselves. We missed Pogba massively, but the players we have should be capable of not getting dominated by Southampton.

He tried to put more players capable of maintaining possession on the pitch but it just didn't happen for him/the players

Had no issues with his subs or instructions, to which historically I would as he would do it preemptively.

Thought he responded correctly in the game as it was clear we had no control in the middle and were getting outnumbered. As you say, players totally failed to be brave and take the ball and keep it.

Seemed we moved to counter as quick as possible but just kept losing the ball.

For me goes to show, what a massive loss Pogba is to this team. Confident and brave to receive and keep the ball in any situation, and has the engine to break with the ball also. Really concerned about his injury and the stories around it, granted prefer it was now then after Christmas.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Yep seemingly ref report said no further action needed.

Jose came onto the pitch marginally shouting at his team and was sent off where as sky showed a clip of conte coming onto the pitch after the Luiz red card and screaming at the officials and no action against him at all.

Yes Jose reputation perceeds him but he has not had one ounce of trouble since the stupid water bottle incident last year that's over a year ago nearly he has been the calmer of all top half managers he didn't even protest when he was sent to stands he just shook hands and went off.

There's probably a difference between coming onto the pitch during play and when it is stopped

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

Are Matic and Fellaini injured?

I think Carrick has to start against CSKA if Matic is carrying any sort of knock. I would like to see Herrera in too but not if it means Mhkitaryan gets put anywhere near LW.

Thought Mhiki should have come off in that second half for Martial, putting Rashford out right and Martial left, or even Lingaard for Mhiki who is defensively maybe more clued in, so that we had a real threat on the break and probably could have snatched 2-0.

While Mhiki seems to be getting some flak, I've been thoroughly impressed with him at 10. Like, chuffed. The way he glides, his dribbling, his movement between the lines. He is just always free and is causing havoc for opposing teams.

That he loses the ball a fair bit, to be honest I'm not overly concerned, would rather it happen there in that part of the pitch. Plus noticing Matic and our other CM are typically pushing up high so Matic has snatched a lot of the ball back.

He's so ineffective out wide though. Think he is a specialist 10 and if the game requires a shift then he should be withdrawn if no longer playing a 10.

But really enthused by the way he has started the season.

jayo26

Nice to see a few similar lazy and bulsh1t opinions about pogba been missed same as my own.

I'm not too concerned about pogba injury he was dancing around last week and I'd imagine it's just a tweak but he won't be brought back before international break I'd be surprised if he ain't on the pitch versus liverpool.

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's probably a difference between coming onto the pitch during play and when it is stopped

No they aint no difference your not allowed enter the field of play unless your an official or physio.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

Nice to see a few similar lazy and bulsh1t opinions about pogba been missed same as my own.

Your still completely missing the point.

The midfield put out was more than good enough to win that battle. Missing Pogba cant be an excuse for second half performances like Saturday considering we had a number of similar performances last season with Pogba in the side.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

No they aint no difference your not allowed enter the field of play unless your an official or physio.

OK, good. The problem is what happened lasts year with Conte, not what happened with Jose. This times the referee got it right

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest I was pretty furious again at that match with the standard of refereeing.

Mikes Jones (think that's is name) is a consistently poor referee every time I see him. There wasn't so much in terms of poor decisions for fouls or anything, but his judgement on yellow cards was terrible.

His booking on Ander was laughable. As the whistle blew he slid a pass into Lukakus feet, he clearly wasn't slowing down the retake. A few minutes later Jones, when the ball went out for a throw launched it into the stands, and wasn't booked. Perfectly encapsulated the completely brutal consistency going on.

Young got booked for a pretty innocuous nothing and then think Lukaku got booked for winning the ball in a good tackle.

That he had a perfect view on Shane Long raking Fellaini's calf and only deemed it a yellow, when it was a clear red card, was also laughable.

You had Redmond absolutely berate the linesman at one point, no booking for dissent.

The consistency and constant varying degree the rules and laws are interpreted is so annoying and frustrating.

The sending off for Jose was a total nonsense, captured by that donkey 4th official who is also a terrible referee. Imagine actually halting the game to call the ref over "here he stood on the pitch". You'd think the ref would have some bottle and be like "yeah ok, Jose, can you stay in your area please, last time I'll say it to you".

Laughable stuff at this level of the game.

The ref was Craig Pawson. I agree he was terrible, has been poor for us in the past and it's unacceptable officiating at this level. Likewise in the Leicester-Liverpool match.

However, I think you are downplaying Jose's actions on the touchline. Whether he meant it or not, him running out towards the pitch while there's attacking opposition players running within feet of him is not on.

Don't get me wrong, I love the image of our manager animated on the touchline screaming at his players to see out a victory, but maybe back a few feet.

He definitely crossed the line, with his crossing of the line, and I'm delightfully surprised to see him not pick up a further scolding from the FA given their penchant for doing it.

This has been a weird Monday as it's gone so far, and now here I am trying to convince Doc that Jose did a bad thing :pac:

Here's what Jose really wanted to do!

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

Your still completely missing the point.

The midfield put out was more than good enough to win that battle. Missing Pogba cant be an excuse for second half performances like Saturday considering we had a number of similar performances last season with Pogba in the side.

TBF I don't think he is missing any point, I have read multiple times now over the last two weeks from various posters not to mention Pogba as a main reason we have struggled centrally but I strongly disagree.

I count 10+ games now that it's been a clear problem from the time Pogba went injured last season and now the two games he has missed so far with another injury.

In those 10+ games he was missing our midfield has been been without control, Everton for long spells were running midfield as were Southampton at the weekend.

It can't be all coincidental beno, stating the midfield should be more than good enough is not an adequate excuse. Matic has been excellent but his role is not of dictating play, he distributes from the back, covers space and protects the back four.

He doesn't drive forward into the box at pace, neither does Fellani at pace (He does get in the box but it's normally from set piece situations)

user2011

Think when the Herrera sub had zero impact on regaining possession for us it was hold what we had, comfortable for the most part other then fell clearing from goal with a header.

I'd also argue the fact if Matic wasn't on the pitch for both the Everton & Arsenal game we would be down 4 points.
It's why he was purchased but without Pogba it's like half the Jigsaw is missing.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Your still completely missing the point.

The midfield put out was more than good enough to win that battle. Missing Pogba cant be an excuse for second half performances like Saturday considering we had a number of similar performances last season with Pogba in the side.

One of Pogba's strengths is his ability to withhold the ball while under immense pressure and he radiates this to those around him.

We lost possesion way too much second half and could barely get out of our half, when we did get it, we lumped the ball forward, or were trying to counter at breakneck speed.

Think the reality is that 3 points are all thats important in the current congested schedule, and we need to maintain point parity with City. Unless they have another collapse towards Christmas, that team is looking absolutely relentless, so we can't afford silly dropped points. So getting out with the win was cool.

Have to say I'm looking at that first Manchester Derby. I typically believe leagues are won by dropping the least silly points as possible, and I don't think this season will be any different, but the Manchester derbies might be important to build a gap. Will need to see what the lay of the land is when it comes, but we might well need to look to win these derbies rather then look for a point

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

The ref was Craig Pawson. I agree he was terrible, has been poor for us in the past and it's unacceptable officiating at this level. Likewise in the Leicester-Liverpool match.

Sorry yeah Pawson. Was Jones the 4th official?

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Your still completely missing the point.

The midfield put out was more than good enough to win that battle. Missing Pogba cant be an excuse for second half performances like Saturday considering we had a number of similar performances last season with Pogba in the side.

I'm not missing the point some people just ignore the point. I'm not going to repeat what doc and Mick said they have said exactly what I have been saying since the game.

We had very few games last year where we were pushed back like Southampton did to us Saturday and the few games I remember were the performances when pogba was out missing too.

There is a trend there and its pogba been able to help take pressure off the defence and find players in space ahead of him. There was so many times in that game when midfield had the ball and lukaku was pressing the high backline from Southampton and we had no midfielder capable of playing a ball in behind the defence for him to run on to.

The midfield we had should of been able to deal with them and you could say they did deal with them because we kept a clean sheet but they made it too easy for Southampton to win back possession.

adox

jayo26 wrote: »

Nice to see a few similar lazy and bulsh1t opinions about pogba been missed same as my own.

Get over it.

adox

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd also argue the fact if Matic wasn't on the pitch for both the Everton & Arsenal game we would be down 4 points.
It's why he was purchased but without Pogba it's like half the Jigsaw is missing.

Matic is by far our most important midfielder. His fitness this season will be the difference between a serious challenge and being also rans.

pjohnson

adox wrote: »

Matic is by far our most important midfielder. His fitness this season will be the difference between a serious challenge and being also rans.

This would have been my belief.

adox

adox wrote: »

Matic is by far our most important midfielder. His fitness this season will be the difference between a serious challenge and being also rans.

I'd like to say he could be rested against Moscow but don't think he will. I'd be confident enough Jose will manage him well.
If we look at the game a draw is a sufficient result away from home IMO

jayo26

adox wrote: »

Get over it.

Over it buddy

Trigger

adox wrote: »

Matic is by far our most important midfielder. His fitness this season will be the difference between a serious challenge and being also rans.

I'm not the kind of guy who says I told ye so but...

No further action taken against Jose

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41387780

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry yeah Pawson. Was Jones the 4th official?

No idea, I just know Pawson's mug and name from previous outings and wasn't overly surprised by his shíte performance.

jayo26

Just seen that the specialist looking after pogbas injury has said it can heal with out surgery but surgery might be more beneficial in the long term and a decision will be made next week.

^Ah jay-sus (pun intended)

Sure surgery would mean he's out for months no?

Trigger

The fella out as well.. any links to that about Pogba Jayo?

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/912304689131253761

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/912305093659234304

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/912298217445916672

astradave

astradave wrote: »

The fella out as well.

He did well to fight through the pain barrier. It really was a **** challenge by Long.

Jayop

I said at the time had the roles been reversed and it was him who did that to Long he'd have been off. The ref rode him all afternoon.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

I said at the time had the roles been reversed and it was him who did that to Long he'd have been off. The ref rode him all afternoon.

He had a pop at the ref when he was hacked from behind for the third time breaking out from our box.

Really does get a raw deal. But I'm hardly surprised he finished that game injured. Didn't even look injured. He's such a tough player, that the minute I saw his reaction to Long's tackle I knew he had been raked with studs. He had a few other heavy challenges where he just got straight back up.

Such a mad player. In my brain I simply know he's not good enough and we can do so much better, but then at the same time I think he is fine and does the simple things well and is a good presence in midfield.

Then I see how he conducts himself when getting hard tackles and no support from the ref, and I'm like nearly proud we have a player who plays the game in the way I personally like to see it done.

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

TBF I don't think he is missing any point, I have read multiple times now over the last two weeks from various posters not to mention Pogba as a main reason we have struggled centrally but I strongly disagree.

I dont accept that we should be so heavily dependent one player, that midfield is capable at least if Herrera is tasked with filling in for Pogba.

I count 10+ games now that it's been a clear problem from the time Pogba went injured last season and now the two games he has missed so far with another injury.


Ive heard this mentioned a lot, we were missing a number of players towards the end of last season not just PP

In those 10+ games he was missing our midfield has been been without control, Everton for long spells were running midfield as were Southampton at the weekend.

Id throw the Stoke game into the list of games where we lacked control

It can't be all coincidental beno, stating the midfield should be more than good enough is not an adequate excuse. Matic has been excellent but his role is not of dictating play, he distributes from the back, covers space and protects the back four.

Its not an excuse its something that should be discussed and debates "we missed Pogba" is an excuse

He doesn't drive forward into the box at pace, neither does Fellani at pace (He does get in the box but it's normally from set piece situations)

I just dont believe we are/should be so heavily dependant on Pogba, if Herrera was performing and in the side I dont think we would be having this argument, there are obviously things Pogba brings that Herrera does and vice versa but we have a replacement who should be more than adequate for the likes of Everton and Southampton.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

I just dont believe we are/should be so heavily dependant on Pogba, if Herrera was performing and in the side I dont think we would be having this argument, there are obviously things Pogba brings that Herrera does and vice versa but we have a replacement who should be more than adequate for the likes of Everton and Southampton.

We shouldn't be but it's the same with a lot if teams you take out one if the best players it changes how the team plays.

De bruyne at city.

Mane at liverpool.

Hazard at Chelsea

Erickson at spurs.

Some of them teams have replacements but they suffer.

Your Airbag

Mino Raiola, the player’s agent, said: “He(Lukaku) would like this song to stop. They are talking more about the song than about his football. That’s his and my quote.”

Embarrassing at this stage that Lukaku has mentioned for the third time he wants this new chat to stop. Unfortunately I can foresee some knuckle draggers continuing to sing it claiming Lukaku really loves the "banter".

jayo26

Your Airbag wrote: »

Embarrassing at this stage that Lukaku has mentioned for the third time he wants this new chat to stop. Unfortunately I can foresee some knuckle draggers continuing to sing it claiming Lukaku really loves the "banter".

The most impirtant tging is to get it to a minority thats singing it and deal with them the problem the other day is that it was most of the traveling support singing it.

RobertKK

It is beyond ignorant, fans should support the wishes of the player, not throw his request and that of the club back in his face.

Your Airbag

jayo26 wrote: »

The most impirtant tging is to get it to a minority thats singing it and deal with them the problem the other day is that it was most of the traveling support singing it.

Yeah I think if it continues the club should act and start bans. Other fans are already laughing at us for it and not in a good way.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

I just dont believe we are/should be so heavily dependant on Pogba, if Herrera was performing and in the side I dont think we would be having this argument, there are obviously things Pogba brings that Herrera does and vice versa but we have a replacement who should be more than adequate for the likes of Everton and Southampton.

Ultimately I think Pogbas importance is actually underestimated by some.

On the above in bold, that's where we differ. For better or worse.
But one could say that you could also consider it tactical from Jose. Maybe he believes we don't have the ability to completely dominate the game without Pogba in the 11. Just because someone says the team that lined up without Pogba should control the game doesn't mean it was directed to do so.

Tbf Southampton are a good side a 1-0 defensive win away form home is a good result.

But at home to Everton at times we were chasing the game. On another day Rooney could have scored that chance and that 4-0 scoreline wouldn't have existed.

jayo26

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yeah I think if it continues the club should act and start bans. Other fans are already laughing at us for it and not in a good way.

Other fans can't afford to laugh at us there is not one fan base in the UK that has not had even bigger issues then what United are dealing with now.

United have one of the best group's of fans in the country but but from my experience a lot of them are against been told what to do from the outside.

If kick it out went to United and said look we have received complaints about this chant and we think it unacceptable then United could of dealth with it themselves by releasing a statement but kick it out went and released a statement condemning it put the club in a position where they were put under pressure to respond and so was the player.

Im not saying the club didnt have a problem w8th the chant of course they would but it would of been better coming from the club first other then an outside group.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

I said at the time had the roles been reversed and it was him who did that to Long he'd have been off. The ref rode him all afternoon.

It was a horrendous challenge on first glance, never mind the replays the ref doesn't see. However, given Fellaini's reputation I instantly knew there wasn't a hope of Long seeing the red card.

Fellaini got double-fúcked there because of this reputation IMO. I bet Long made that challenge because of Fellaini's thuggish reputation, where as he wouldn't have made a similiar "I'm gonna hurt him, never mind the ball" challenge on someone like Matic or Pogba (if playing). The referee then used that same reputation to impact his decision when dealing with the aftermath.

Outside of that incident, there's Jose. Although I reckon Jose was wrong and him being sent off is understandable, I don't think any other PL manager would have been sent off for the same breach as Jose.

I'm not one to usually say 'woe is us', but we really were swimming against the tide on Saturday and did very well to get out of there with 3 points.

jayo26

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZdPrPPFFBv/

On a positive note this is so good to see come is looking strong and really good compared to 12 months or so ago.