Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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bangkok wrote: »

Liverpool at anfield regardless of form is probably our toughest match of the season and form goes out the window

In no way is it our toughest game of the season.

fergiesfolly

It's the most nerve wracking at any rate.
Or maybe younger fans don't get the significance of the fixture.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Liverpool at anfield regardless of form is probably our toughest match of the season and form goes out the window

It will be the toughest game that we will have played at that point id say but no way is it over the course of the season

bucketybuck

The game against Madrid in Kiev is going to be the toughest, thats my guess.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

Not exactly what you want in a man utd player

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/02/jose-mourinho-called-me-a-coward-in-real-madrid-row-says-mesut-ozil

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/10406460/I-let-Mesut-Ozil-go-to-Arsenal-because-he-doesnt-have-the-character-for-Real-Madrid-says-Carlo-Ancelotti.html

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/paininthearsenal.com/2017/02/16/arsenal-everything-carlo-ancelotti-said-about-mesut-ozil-is-true/amp/

Did you read ANY of them or just the headlines........

Article 1 -generic out of context tripe when manager is clearly trying to rile up a player to get a positive reaction. Goes on to say he LOVED Jose.

Article 2 - NOTHING about not having NO CHATACTER just thay Di Maria had more character and dynamism which balanced the side more.

Article 3 - NULL and VOID on the basis that like you he read the tagline in article 2

GSPfan

bangkok wrote: »

Liverpool at anfield regardless of form is probably our toughest match of the season and form goes out the window

I’ve always found Stamford Bridge to be the toughest ground we visit year on year. I have no confidence leaving with points from Stamford Bridge.... ever. Whereas Anfield, we regularly win.

Maybe the stats will prove me dead wrong but it feeks like I’m right.

thelad95

GSPfan wrote: »

I’ve always found Stamford Bridge to be the toughest ground we visit year on year. I have no confidence leaving with points from Stamford Bridge.... ever. Whereas Anfield, we regularly win.

Maybe the stats will prove me dead wrong but it feeks like I’m right.

I'd agree with that, even away to City, I always have a sneaky suspicion we'll leave with three points but Stamford Bridge has not been a happy hunting ground for United even before the Abrahamovic takeover.

Just thinking back over recent seasons, the only points I can remember us picking up at the Bridge are the 3-3 draw followed by the 3-2 win the following season. In the 3-3 draw, we had two ridiculously soft penalties and in the 3-2, Chelsea had two red cards and chicharitos winner was woefully offside.

We should have beaten them under van gaal but for a 90th minute costa equaliser.

So yeah, stamford bridge is by far the worst.

Ozil is 28, when did that suddenly become old

mewe

M!Ck^ wrote:

Ozil is 28, when did that suddenly become old

Yesterday.

S.M.B.

28 is the new 33

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ozil is 28, when did that suddenly become old

This weird thing has happened in the last few years where all a lot of people want is 21-23 year olds "for the future".

Which is kind of important but you need the balance too. I think LVG played a part on that mentality for us, mainly because in his second year, where "playing youth" seemed to become the priority because we weren't able to actually achieve much else under him

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

This weird thing has happened in the last few years where all a lot of people want is 21-23 year olds "for the future".

Which is kind of important but you need the balance too. I think LVG played a part on that mentality for us, mainly because in his second year, where "playing youth" seemed to become the priority because we weren't able to actually achieve much else under him

IMO that's too much FM mentality.

yabadabado

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ozil is 28, when did that suddenly become old

Only fit for the nursing home now !!

Ozil wouldn't be top of my list but on a free transfer it makes sense.He can be top class on his day and Jose has worked with him and gotten the best out of him.
Ozil on a free,leaving money for Griezmann and FBs would be good business.

Trigger

I just can't believe that people are turning their noses up to arguably one of the best playmakers in the world on a free transfer.

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ozil is 28, when did that suddenly become old

It obviously isn't, and when you consider he'd be either cut price or free, his age isn't an issue in the slightest.

astradave wrote: »

I just can't believe that people are turning their noses up to arguably one of the best playmakers in the world on a free transfer.

You read mad **** in this thread. I can remember people saying they wouldn't be interested in Harry Kane maybe the season before last.

Lucas Hood

bucketybuck wrote: »

The game against Madrid in Kiev is going to be the toughest, thats my guess.

Assume you mean Skopje not Kiev.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

This weird thing has happened in the last few years where all a lot of people want is 21-23 year olds "for the future".

Which is kind of important but you need the balance too. I think LVG played a part on that mentality for us, mainly because in his second year, where "playing youth" seemed to become the priority because we weren't able to actually achieve much else under him

Wait does a "few years" include the 90's? Was Ferguson ahead of his years when he signed Keane and promoted the likes of Neville(s), Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Butt who stayed at the club for far longer than the 28 year old Özil would? Are we only promoting youth thanks to LVG and not Fergie?

I mistakenly thought United were a club always affiliated with signing generally younger players who will improve and peak while at the club ie. Rooney, Ronaldo, De Gea, hopefully Lindelöf and Lukaku still a chance Shaw might make it. When did this policy of wanting "young players" become a new thing? I thought that was always something the club did? Exceptions of course for the likes of Larsson, Zlatan & Van Der Sar.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IMO that's too much FM mentality.

Ok so should we go bidding for Perisic again if young players are only "FM mentality"? Why wait for Rashford and Martial to develop if we can get better now?

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

This weird thing has happened in the last few years where all a lot of people want is 21-23 year olds "for the future".

Which is kind of important but you need the balance too. I think LVG played a part on that mentality for us, mainly because in his second year, where "playing youth" seemed to become the priority because we weren't able to actually achieve much else under him

The gas thing is taking Ozil at his age now you would be getting 4+ years out of him in his prime.

4 years is a long time in football. That's the future.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

The gas thing is taking Ozil at his age now you would be getting 4+ years out of him in his prime.

4 years is a long time in football. That's the future.

But he has been pretty **** for 4 years at arsenal. One good season probably. Madrid got rid of him after 3 seasons and only arsenal were interested. That says a lot. Would take him on a free but wouldnt care if he went off to another club tbh

pjohnson

Jaysus if wanting to get a solid team built up for a few years is a stupid thing then apologies. Lets pump for stop gaps and ta fcuk with youth. Chelsea do fine ignoring young players so I cant say it doesn't work, just didnt know we had wanted to adopt similar policy. Claiming that United only played youth due to LVG and that youth is "new" is laughable. I thought I was one of the youngsters on this thread seems not as I can remember the (abeit late) 90's.

GSPfan

I think the only issue with Özil’s age is that the two players we have in the squad who are fighting for the same position are the same age. By next August I think all of them will be 29 and a half or upwards. It doesn’t seem to be an upgrade on what we currently have and the only real benefit seems to be his cheap price.

yabadabado

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Assume you mean Skopje not Kiev.

He means Kiev :cool:
I doubt Real will be there ....

GSPfan

Strong talk today about United expanding Old Trafford to 88,000. Hope something official comes from the club about it.

yabadabado

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus if wanting to get a solid team built up for a few years is a stupid thing then apologies. Lets pump for stop gaps and ta fcuk with youth. Chelsea do fine ignoring young players so I cant say it doesn't work, just didnt know we had wanted to adopt similar policy. Claiming that United only played youth due to LVG and that youth is "new" is laughable. I thought I was one of the youngsters on this thread seems not as I can remember the (abeit late) 90's.

Ozil is 28 soon 29 that's hardly a stop gap.Id class Zlatan or Larsson type signing a stop gap.A 29 year old player can easily be at the club 3 or 4 years which is a long time in football.
Every team need a good mix of youth and experience.

KaiserGunner

bangkok wrote: »

But he has been pretty **** for 4 years at arsenal. One good season probably. Madrid got rid of him after 3 seasons and only arsenal were interested. That says a lot. Would take him on a free but wouldnt care if he went off to another club tbh

Pretty much everything in this post is wrong.

bucketybuck

I don't think its necessarily crazy to question whether we should want Ozil or not, you can accept that he is a good age and has fine talent but just because you could doesn't always mean you should.

There is the very obvious point that we already have two players of similar age playing that position, both of whom can play wider in a way that I don't believe Ozil would be effective at doing, and both of whom contribute far more workrate than I believe Ozil would. We also have a lot of other players with different attributes who would also play in that no.10 role, so even on a free is it a transfer we really need to make when we are already well covered there?

Then there is the issue of pace. In retrospect we are seeing now the effect Zlatan had on our attack last year, if you have ponderous players in key positions you will have a ponderous attack. Do we really want to go back to that? We are all enjoying our attacking style so far this year, is Ozil going to contribute to that or is he going to slow it down to suit his play?

There are the intangibles regarding character of course. Its easy to dismiss people noting any "lack" of character, but as one factor among many you can't ignore that Madrid were perfectly happy to move him on after supposedly successful seasons and that his time at Arsenal has been marked by repeated accusations of going missing.

Ozil on a free? Maybe, if the manager feels he can use him then go for it. But I can fully understand the doubters and why its not as simple as "player is available on a free we should take him". He might be a good player but so was Faustino Asprilla.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Wait does a "few years" include the 90's? Was Ferguson ahead of his years when he signed Keane and promoted the likes of Neville(s), Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Butt who stayed at the club for far longer than the 28 year old Özil would? Are we only promoting youth thanks to LVG and not Fergie?

I mistakenly thought United were a club always affiliated with signing generally younger players who will improve and peak while at the club ie. Rooney, Ronaldo, De Gea, hopefully Lindelöf and Lukaku still a chance Shaw might make it. When did this policy of wanting "young players" become a new thing? I thought that was always something the club did? Exceptions of course for the likes of Larsson, Zlatan & Van Der Sar.

Ok so should we go bidding for Perisic again if young players are only "FM mentality"? Why wait for Rashford and Martial to develop if we can get better now?

The F you talking about? Fecking straw-men everywhere.

Yes, youth was promoted - and nurtured by the likes of Bruce and Pallister. Irwin. Parker. Cantona. Schmeichel. McClair. Sheringham etc.

No one is saying don't buy younger oplayers but it is not a great policy to ONLY buy young oplayers. You need experienced players to help them.

Ferguson himself said he liked to have players within 3 age brackets. Young, Matured and Older. It creates a good balance of energy, experience and leadership.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus if wanting to get a solid team built up for a few years is a stupid thing then apologies. Lets pump for stop gaps and ta fcuk with youth. Chelsea do fine ignoring young players so I cant say it doesn't work, just didnt know we had wanted to adopt similar policy. Claiming that United only played youth due to LVG and that youth is "new" is laughable. I thought I was one of the youngsters on this thread seems not as I can remember the (abeit late) 90's.

Question - are you annoyed we signed Matic rather than a 21 year old DM?

bangkok

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Pretty much everything in this post is wrong.

Like what?? It is well known ozil flops in the big games. Constantly. His attitude on the field is awful. He never tracks his man. Has been a major part of arsenals massive decline in the last few years

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Like what?? It is well known ozil flops in the big games. Constantly. His attitude on the field is awful. He never tracks his man. Has been a major part of arsenals massive decline in the last few years

Considering how big a oplayer germany have been in international football I find it odd a player that flops so massively and obviously has won their player of the year 5 times.

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

Ok so should we go bidding for Perisic again if young players are only "FM mentality"? Why wait for Rashford and Martial to develop if we can get better now?

Signing young players is not FM mentality, only wanting to sign young players and moaning about players who are just 28-29 is. You need balance in the squad with young players and experienced ones.

We have players who are young enough and can stay at club for years like Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Pogba, Bailly De Gea and many more. So adding 28-29 year old is not a stop gap, he can easily play for 4 years which is long term in football.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Wait does a "few years" include the 90's? Was Ferguson ahead of his years when he signed Keane and promoted the likes of Neville(s), Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Butt who stayed at the club for far longer than the 28 year old Özil would? Are we only promoting youth thanks to LVG and not Fergie?

I mistakenly thought United were a club always affiliated with signing generally younger players who will improve and peak while at the club ie. Rooney, Ronaldo, De Gea, hopefully Lindelöf and Lukaku still a chance Shaw might make it. When did this policy of wanting "young players" become a new thing? I thought that was always something the club did? Exceptions of course for the likes of Larsson, Zlatan & Van Der Sar.

Ok so should we go bidding for Perisic again if young players are only "FM mentality"? Why wait for Rashford and Martial to develop if we can get better now?

We signed Lukaku & lindelof in the last transfer window

Aged 24 & 23

Rashford, Lingard , Martial, Bailly, Pogba, Shaw, McTominay
19, 24, 21, 23, 24, 22, 20

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus if wanting to get a solid team built up for a few years is a stupid thing then apologies. Lets pump for stop gaps and ta fcuk with youth. Chelsea do fine ignoring young players so I cant say it doesn't work, just didnt know we had wanted to adopt similar policy. Claiming that United only played youth due to LVG and that youth is "new" is laughable. I thought I was one of the youngsters on this thread seems not as I can remember the (abeit late) 90's.

There isn't a team where only young player are signed and let them grow together as a team. Every year clubs sign plenty of players and sell many. So Young team "Growing together" is sort of myth as clubs always sign a experienced players or players in their peak.

pjohnson

yabadabado wrote: »

Ozil is 28 soon 29 that's hardly a stop gap.Id class Zlatan or Larsson type signing a stop gap.A 29 year old player can easily be at the club 3 or 4 years which is a long time in football.
Every team need a good mix of youth and experience.

Zlatan a stop gap? We had no striker last year except for him, hes now our only natural backup to Lukaku as a targetman type striker.

Özil will be another late 20's natural #10 in the squad with Mkhitaryan and Mata. You say yourself that every team needs a mix of youth and experience but how can you then advocate 3 playmakers none of which bring "youth" to the equation?

Thats why I like the Zlatan/Lukaku duo. One has the experience the other youth. That is perfect in my eyes. If pushed I would probably prefer to get Giroud over Özil. Not because I think Giroud is better (he isn't) but because I think the United squad would need Giroud much more. When Zlatan leaves we should be looking for another experienced back up targetman to stop Lukaku from burning out. Flip side we should look to a youthful DM to replace Carrick and be understudy to Matic (possibly Dendocker?).

Its just that if we look for another playmaker I'd prefer younger. Maybe they could learn from Mata/Mhiki. Having the main XI player and his understudy/successor being the same age just doesn't make sense to me. I mean inevitably when both leave/retire you are left with none. And if you sign a younger player to be 3rd choice behind two more experienced players he wont get proper game time to learn/develop.


I guess this is just me. I would also say we need Zlatan/Carrick replacements way more than another playmaker anyway.

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Question - are you annoyed we signed Matic rather than a 21 year old DM?

Nope. Not when our alternative is 35 yrs. We needed a proven starter. Our next DM should be young I would hope.

pjohnson

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Signing young players is not FM mentality, only wanting to sign young players and moaning about players who are just 28-29 is. You need balance in the squad with young players and experienced ones.

We have players who are young enough and can stay at club for years like Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Pogba, Bailly De Gea and many more. So adding 28-29 year old is not a stop gap, he can easily play for 4 years which is long term in football.

so which of those play #10?

pjohnson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

We signed Lukaku & lindelof in the last transfer window

Aged 24 & 23

Rashford, Lingard , Martial, Bailly, Pogba

19, 24, 21, 23, 24

And the #10 is whom? We dont have a young #10. Why add another senior #10?

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

And the #10 is whom? We dont have a young #10. Why add another senior #10?

#10 is one of the most critical positions in the team

Why leave it to an inexperienced 20 year old?

Same as CB, lets put two 20 years old in that position and see how we do

Same as DM

Your spine needs to contain youth and experience, a 28 year old provides this

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

so which of those play #10?

So we need young players in every position? If you even go by that logic then 4 years of Ozil and we'll have Gomes ready to take over they position.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Your spine needs to contain youth and experience, a 28 year old provides this

But we already have a 28 year old no.10. And another one who is 29. And quite a few others who can play in that area.

pjohnson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

#10 is one of the most critical positions in the team

Why leave it to an inexperienced 20 year old?

Same as CB, lets put two 20 years old in that position and see how we do

Why would we suddenly only have a 20 year old #10? Are we selling/releasing Mata & Mkhitaryan?

Well we have Lindelöf (23), Bailly (24), Jones (26) so I really dont think we need any more CB's.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

But we already have a 28 year old no.10. And another one who is 29. And quite a few others who can play in that area.

That's fine, read back.
I'm not debating getting Ozil into the side at all. I shared my thoughts on him earlier. I don't care if we do or don't as we are already filled in that position.
It's just my general thoughts on age and experience.

pjohnson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

That's fine, read back.
I'm not debating getting Ozil into the side at all.
It's just my general thoughts on age and experience.

Well then I think you need to read my posts again. The only reason I think Özil is pointless is we already have two experienced 10's so I dont see the need for a third. I dont actually think we need another 10 at all really between Andreas and Gomes coming through.

Posts above lads, not sure how some of you are not getting this.
Indicated it in bold above.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Al Capwned wrote: »

That still a thing?
Cos it seems I'm still on it!!

Great to have you back Al

I thought your account had went to the big boards user graveyard in the sky!

pjohnson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Posts above lads, not sure how some of you are not getting this.
Indicated it in bold above.

Tbf ya ninja edited the above post to add the bold bit. I think we are mostly on the same page anyway.

Signing a 29 year old Matic made sense since it was 35 year old Carrick or 21 year old McTominay. Singing a 28 year to "compete" with two players the same age......not so much.

Your claim/statement of us only have a 20 year old #10 or two 20 year CB's was just odd phrasing considering thats no where near our current squad.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Considering how big a oplayer germany have been in international football I find it odd a player that flops so massively and obviously has won their player of the year 5 times.

Im talking about club football. International football is a different kettle of fish. Lukas podolski is not a player i would have rated and he won 130 caps for germany

Back to ozil, my point is with ozil, if he was a good as some say, why were arsenal the only club in for him, a club that has never won a champions league and havent competed for league title in over 10 years

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IMO that's too much FM mentality.

Plays a big part, 100%

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No one is saying don't buy younger oplayers but it is not a great policy to ONLY buy young oplayers. You need experienced players to help them.

Ferguson himself said he liked to have players within 3 age brackets. Young, Matured and Older. It creates a good balance of energy, experience and leadership.

100% agreed.

This was what I was referring to with the Van Gaal issue. He unbalanced the team massively. We had a load of super young players, and we had a lot of older players in the twilight of their careers. We didn't have great options in the middle of the spectrum. And that led us into struggling to crack top 4 for successive seasons.



On a free, Ozil at 29 could be considered possibly in his prime (if at the latter end of it), and has experience working under Jose already (something that brought Matic and Lukaku our direction already, and seems to be something Jose likes).

Plus, you know, bonus points of annoying Arsenal fans :pac:

Mind, I also think there's going to be stiff competition for him on a free; I'd be amazed if you don't see Bayern, Juve and a few other "Elite" clubs looking to nab him on the free....

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/PFA/status/915486649856950272

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Plays a big part, 100%

you must be awfully annoyed we signed Lindelöf. Damn Jose with his FM nonsense signing a young player to develop into a first teamer :pac: