Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Mitch Connor

I think Mata could be gone in the summer.

Decent chance we go for Greizman again - who would, imo, take Mata's place in the starting line-up. Then signing Ozil on a free would replace the option of Mata at 10, and he would compete with Miki for that spot.

Whether that competition would end up being productive I dunno - but I can see the sense in United at least putting the work in to sign Ozil, whether they eventually decide to do it or whether he accepts.

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

you must be awfully annoyed we signed Lindelöf. Damn Jose with his FM nonsense signing a young player to develop into a first teamer :pac:

Liam O

It comes down to if Ozil is a better No. 10 than Mkhitaryan and Mata. I believe he is even though I really like Mata there. Mkhi I'm still not convinced by there. On a free means there's less risk of it doesn't work out and means that there are more assets in the squad.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Lol. Just using your logic. You'll rake in thanks from usual suspects so fairplay

Amusing start to the day.

Giggsy11

pjohnson wrote: »

Lol. Just using your logic. You'll rake in thanks from usual suspects so fairplay

Amusing start to the day.

Do you even think before replying or post just randomly?

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

Lol. Just using your logic. You'll rake in thanks from usual suspects so fairplay

Amusing start to the day.

At any point did I argue that we should ONLY sign older players?

Your point is a strawman because at no point have I even commented on the pros and cons of signing Lindelof, nor have I argued we should not sign young players. I simply said that we should not be solely focused on younger players to the ignorance of older ones, as having a balance across the entire spectrum is the best way to proceed.

pjohnson

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Do you even think before replying or post just randomly?

I do actually.

I mean Lord TSC 100% agreed with a post from Mitch

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ferguson himself said he liked to have players within 3 age brackets. Young, Matured and Older. It creates a good balance of energy, experience and leadership.

I'm wondering where exactly the notion that Mata/Mkhitaryan/Ozil fit into these categories. Two 28 year olds and a 29 year old? Yes I see where the youth category clearly is provided.


Also starting from that same post Mitch somehow decided that because I wanted a younger player than Özil I somehow wanted a policy of only youth which is some hilarious thanksbait.

You need to sign based on whats available we needed to sign the "mature" Matic since we only had the "older" Carrick or "young" McTominay. We have two mature playmakers so we better get a third? That fits well into what those disagreeing have said.

I clearly outline I dont advocate youth only as I said we will need an older forward (gave Giroud as an example) to replace Ibrahimovic. We could sign a younger player to replace Carrick since Matic is the current incumbent for a few years.

Simply not wanting to stockpile 28-29 year old number 10's is apparently controversial. And means I ONLY want young players all the time? Thats an usual conclusion based on my opinion that we dont need a third 28/29 year old #10.

That opinion is literally based on our current squad. Now this will really confuse people: I wouldn't mind signing say a 28 year old RB as Valencia is getting on in years. I wouldn't however be keen on another 32 year old RB to replace a 32 year old RB.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

At any point did I argue that we should ONLY sign older players?

Your point is a strawman because at no point have I even commented on the pros and cons of signing Lindelof, nor have I argued we should not sign young players. I simply said that we should not be solely focused on younger players to the ignorance of older ones, as having a balance across the entire spectrum is the best way to proceed.

When the flying fcuk did I advocate ONLY youth? I say it once about a #10 and by default it means I ONLY want youth ALL the time?

So because I dont want Özil I automatically want only youth. Yet you want Özil and can still want younger players? Why the fcuk cant I be allowed want old and young where applicable? I somehow got defaulted and the buckos got the thankbaits out.

dave_o_brien

I think Ozil is a very good player. Our squad would improve in quality with him.

That said, I think Donnarumma is a very good keeper, who would improve our squad. But we have DDG... Why inflate an already strong area of the squad?!

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

When the flying fcuk did I advocate ONLY youth? I say it once about a #10 and by default it means I ONLY want youth ALL the time?

Again, did I say you did? Stop creating arguments. YOU implied I must have been annoyed Lindelof was signed as he was a bit younger. And I replied to how that was a straw man. I never once put words into your mouth about what you want to advocate.

RobertKK

I wanted Harry kane after his first good season, he just looked a natural goal scorer, people were going 'one good season', but with certain players you just know. It is like with Mbappe, he is not going to be a flash in the pan.
Kane is a world class player, and no doubt United will have made contact with his agent, even if Kane is not moving but to have their name on the list that they are an interested club if he ever decided he wanted to move.
I think that is what United did with Neymar but decided differently when the time came.

Trigger

well it makes a change from arguing about loses and performances anyways

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

They have changed the recipe, you'll see the wrappers saying "now with extra milk and cocoa!!!", which means they have cut costs on the chocolate and now they taste like manky coffee. :mad:

I had one of these the other day. I was suspicious as I opened the pack (i like coffee, hate coffee-flavoured chocolate) and to my enchantment I found there to be no coffee taste to the bar of confectionary...at all. Just extra chocolate. The wafer to chocolate ratio took a pummelling, but thankfully no manky coffee taste.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

I had one of these the other day. I was suspicious as I opened the pack (i like coffee, hate coffee-flavoured chocolate) and to my enchantment I found there to be no coffee taste to the bar of confectionary...at all. Just extra chocolate. The wafer to chocolate ratio took a pummelling, but thankfully no manky coffee taste.

Really? I noticed the difference immediately but had a few more just to make sure. I think there is a big coffee taste there, confirmed by having one of the older ones and thinking it was just fine. I'd better try them again, just in case.

Also, this isn't off-topic because I know that Rooney and Anderson are both chunky fans.

deaddonkey15

This thread always goes to sh*t during international breaks.

bucketybuck

Still getting those "Rooney" alerts I see.

The_Kew_Tour

Ozil on a free would be crazy to turn down.

Don't get me wrong I think he can go missing, but I think a move to club like United would be making of him again.

It's hard to judge players at Arsenal with the lack of fight in many of them and some would have him right up there, but he is a serious player and be welcome addition.

IF it's all true of course,

EDIT. Not sure why a mad bloke is on top of my post but I'm not mad so must of hit wrong button.

TheDoc

Very confused by the last few pages.

Mezut Ozil is a better #10 than Mata or Mhiki or anything we have. He is probably one of the best 10's in the league and has been an incredibly gifted player. I remember we missed out on him originally when he went to Madrid and was gutted.

Don't buy into the outrage over his work ethic, or maybe I'm different, but I don't really need to see my 10 busting a lung to defend. And Ozil has had clear stamina issues anyway so I'd trust him to know when to use his energy.

Would be an incredible free signing. In saying that, I'm liking what I'm seeing from Mhiki at 10 and over the course of the season it might not be a position we need to fill. I'm assuming next summer we will secure a right sided player to replace Mata in a best first XI and he is superb cover for 10 and right side.

hufpc8w3adnk65

astradave wrote: »

well it makes a change from arguing about loses and performances anyways

We shoulda kept Welbeck.............





******Run's away

Backstreet Moyes

dave_o_brien wrote: »

I think Ozil is a very good player. Our squad would improve in quality with him.

That said, I think Donnarumma is a very good keeper, who would improve our squad. But we have DDG... Why inflate an already strong area of the squad?!

Ozil would be free, is better than all our options and improves the first 11.

Not sure how you are using a comparison to a young keeper who would cost a fortune and wouldn't improve the starting 11.

Adamocovic

I honestly don't see it happening but if the option to sign Ozil is there on a free it's a no brainer.

Don't see why we wouldn't want him in that scenario. Talented player, would increase the squad depth of our squad, and no transfer free. Can't argue with that.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't see why we wouldn't want him in that scenario.

Is nobody else concerned about pace and how he would interact with the other players?

You can't just say he will sit in the middle and spread passes to Rashford, Lukaku and the others who will do all the running, fast incisive teams don't work like that. When you break you all need to break together and Ozil will be far less effective in those cases than Mkhitaryan. In my opinion thats why Madrid moved him on and they were right to do so, and if we play him then our play overall will also slow down to suit him.

Zlatan slowed our play in many ways and we are better overall for having him replaced, why risk the same thing happening again when we have different options already there, players not only with pace but who also are able to play in wider positions.

Ozil is a great player, but that doesn't mean he is right for us and the concerns cannot be dismissed out of hand.

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

Still getting those "Rooney" alerts I see.

Childish as ever, I see the cheerleaders still lap it up though.

bangkok

Was was a great 20 year old player with bags of potential. But judging him what he did at arsenal i wouldnt want him near our squad. He doesnt look bothered most of the time and has flopped in the majority of big games for arsenal. Gets bullied out of a lot of games as well

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is nobody else concerned about pace and how he would interact with the other players?

You can't just say he will sit in the middle and spread passes to Rashford, Lukaku and the others who will do all the running, fast incisive teams don't work like that. When you break you all need to break together and Ozil will be far less effective in those cases than Mkhitaryan. In my opinion thats why Madrid moved him on and they were right to do so, and if we play him then our play overall will also slow down to suit him.

Zlatan slowed our play in many ways and we are better overall for having him replaced, why risk the same thing happening again when we have different options already there, players not only with pace but who also are able to play in wider positions.

Ozil is a great player, but that doesn't mean he is right for us and the concerns cannot be dismissed out of hand.

I think if a team is setup right you can legislate for lack of pace in some areas. I agree with you about Zlatan though he wasn't able to run in behind teams and create space the way Lukakau and others do this year. We also had Carrick as a main stay in our team last year which meant our wide players and Fbs didnt venture as far forward as they do with Matic in the team as he just wasn't able to cover the space in behind as effectively.

If we did sign Ozil, you would probably see Mata dropped out of the team for a faster wide player and he would be the only player lacking pace from midfield up.

Him in last years team would have been problematic, but him feeding faster players would speed up our play as he is pretty fecking amazing passer of the ball.

yabadabado

pjohnson wrote: »

Zlatan a stop gap? We had no striker last year except for him, hes now our only natural backup to Lukaku as a targetman type striker.

Zlatan is the very definition of a stop gap, it doesn't matter that he was the only striker last season(he wasn't).

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

I think if a team is setup right you can legislate for lack of pace in some areas.

I guess I'm not sure if we should be legislating for anybody, if you want a fast, free flowing team then put pace in all areas, don't hamstring yourself if you don't have to.

In Carrick and Zlatan we have seen first hand the effect that a slow player in central positions can have on overall play. The diminishing Rooney showed the negative effect a slowing player can have in the number ten role. Right now nobody is particularly slow and we look better for it, so I'm not sure I really want us to recreate the experiment by dropping Ozil into the middle of things.

We would make do, he isn't crap or anything and we would still be dangerous, I would just prefer a fast and mobile front 6 rather than a fast and mobile front 5 plus 1 creative guy.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

I guess I'm not sure if we should be legislating for anybody, if you want a fast, free flowing team then put pace in all areas, don't hamstring yourself if you don't have to.

In Carrick and Zlatan we have seen first hand the effect that a slow player in central positions can have on overall play. The diminishing Rooney showed the negative effect a slowing player can have in the number ten role. Right now nobody is particularly slow and we look better for it, so I'm not sure I really want us to recreate the experiment by dropping Ozil into the middle of things.

We would make do, he isn't crap or anything and we would still be dangerous, I would just prefer a fast and mobile front 6 rather than a fast and mobile front 5 plus 1 creative guy.

Ibrahimovic was the target man - the furthest forward. As he lacked pace, we couldn't stretch the opposition. Carrick lacked pace and mobility - meaning the team had to cover for that defensively.

Ozil lacks physical pace, but he doesn't lack for movement or intelligence.

I think number 10 is far easier to account for with lack of pace (or mobility) that defensive central midfield or central attacker.

The counter to your argument is also that while it is great having pace (and it is) if you don't have players capable of seeing those runs and playing passes to them, its pointless. I think Ozil is a better passer than Miki is.

---

Lukaku
Mart/Rash--Ozil--Greizman

---

Matic

---

Pogba

If you also add some speed and an offensive threat at left back then I simply don't see pace being an issue in that side.

I think technique, vision and execution are higher priorities at number 10 than pace. If we looked to play Ozil, Miki and Mata at the same time.... then it would be an issue - but one player in a forward unit not being quick won't cause that unit to fail.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Really? I noticed the difference immediately but had a few more just to make sure. I think there is a big coffee taste there, confirmed by having one of the older ones and thinking it was just fine. I'd better try them again, just in case.

Also, this isn't off-topic because I know that Rooney and Anderson are both chunky fans.

Maybe I was just expecting the coffee flavour to be a lot more prominent (like in one of those Quality Street chocs) and since it wasn't, my brain tricked me into thinking that there was none.

I'll take your word, seems like you did a good A/B test on them. I won't be trying another one anytime soon to double-check my own tastes - Never mind the coffee factor, the chocloate/wafer ratio is fúcked. Lot of these manufacturers getting mad notions with their modern chocolate bar modifications.

Sure wasn't there that reported row between Rooney and Anderson after training one day? Anderson offered him a Kit Kat Chunky, and Rooney wouldn't talk to him for a month cause he thought Ando was calling him fat.

bangkok

Mata is criminally underrated by a lot of fans

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I guess I'm not sure if we should be legislating for anybody, if you want a fast, free flowing team then put pace in all areas, don't hamstring yourself if you don't have to.

In Carrick and Zlatan we have seen first hand the effect that a slow player in central positions can have on overall play. The diminishing Rooney showed the negative effect a slowing player can have in the number ten role. Right now nobody is particularly slow and we look better for it, so I'm not sure I really want us to recreate the experiment by dropping Ozil into the middle of things.

We would make do, he isn't crap or anything and we would still be dangerous, I would just prefer a fast and mobile front 6 rather than a fast and mobile front 5 plus 1 creative guy.

Having Ozil playing as #10 didn't stop Madrid playing fast paced counter attacking game under Jose. We need quick thinkers to release the ball to fast players, Ozil is superb player in a counter attacking system.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Having Ozil playing as #10 didn't stop Madrid playing fast paced counter attacking game under Jose. We need quick thinkers to release the ball to fast players, Ozil is superb player in a counter attacking system.

It didn't, they were great with him. And then far better again without him...

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

It didn't, they were great with him. And then far better again without him...

Didn't they change their style though? He left them after Jose left them - so maybe looking at how madrid played under Jose, and how Ozil fit into (and performed in) that scheme is of greater merit?

New manager, new style and a club keen on signing a new galactico - ozil was moved on to make way for Bale wasn't he?

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

Mata is criminally underrated by a lot of fans

Mata is no doubt a brilliant player.

However personally think when he's pushed out wider he's not as effective, the fact that he has been playing there quite a bit probably has led to fans being more accepting of the idea of him possibly leaving.

Now I may be wrong on that assessment but that would be my take-away. I don't think he's underrated in the traditional sense. Fans are aware of his talent, but a lot of fans seem to be fine with the idea of him leaving despite of it.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

Mata is no doubt a brilliant player.

However personally think when he's pushed out wider he's not as effective, the fact that he has been playing there quite a bit probably has led to fans being more accepting of the idea of him possibly leaving.

Now I may be wrong on that assessment but that would be my take-away. I don't think he's underrated in the traditional sense. Fans are aware of his talent, but a lot of fans seem to be fine with the idea of him leaving despite of it.

That would be my position - if we aren't going to use him at 10, he is more replacable out wide. I think Greizmann attacking from that position would offer more of a threat.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

It didn't, they were great with him. And then far better again without him...

That doesn't change the fact that Madrid scored record breaking number of goals in La Liga playing counter attacking football. Ozil was also great for Germany in 2010 WC when they played counter attacking football..

Check the Madrid counter attacking goals and see in how many of those Ozil was involved.

Madrid also changed from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 once Jose was sacked and also added quality players like Bale, Kroos, Carvajal.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

This thread always goes to sh*t during international breaks.

Most of the superthreads usually do in fairness. This break is somewhat unusual for us - We've little to be complaining about or to try to fix in a football sense in here at the moment. I'd say even Jose turned off his thread notifications during this break.

In fairness to the gang in here though, while I've been mainly in lurk-mode myself lately, there's been some decent discussion to go over. Like getting a feel for people's thoughts on Ozil joining us in the not-too-distant future. I'm not sure how I feel about that myself, but it's interesting to get the thread feel for it. Ozil is a player who prior to joining Arsenal, many of us in here wanted to see come to United and were disappointed when it didn't happen. It's this Ozil (football-related) discussion which has dominated the last few pages. With that in mind, I don't agree at all that the thread has gone to shít.

Rooney and Anderson are two ex-players who for whatever reasons were known/seen to have fitness troubles (not related to injury) during their time at United. It getting a mention in the United thread in a humorous context every now and then does not turn the whole thread to shít for a period of two weeks. Nor should it be a shock at this stage.

bangkok wrote: »

Mata is criminally underrated by a lot of fans

I think he is underrated at times, and then overrated at others, and the reality is somewhere in between at the moment.

I'm a huge Mata fan, and there's a reason that Jose has played him in his in main 11 so far this season despite a lack of Mata goals. However, I thought he had a better 2016 calendar year (for LVG's last few months and Jose's first few where for a short while, it looked like we would finish closer to 1st than 6th in 2016/17) than 2017 so far.

That's me mainly talking from a goals/assist POV. Outside of that, he is still important to our league wins so far this season and the dominance which was involved with many of them.

I hope we get to see him lift a PL title with United before he leaves. He and Fellaini came to us at a desperate time and endured some poor times at the club. If there was a title at the end of all that for them, I would be delighted.

BTW, not just throwing Fellaini in there to annoy you bangkok. I was going to write "Mata would be the player I'd be most delighted for if we were to win the PL title..." but then the thoughts of he and Fella raising the trophy together for a photo jumped to the front of my mind. I would love to see that photo, for many reasons, least of all it would generate a mountain of salt with neutrals (The "Mata is a Jose reject" - "Fellaini isn't a football player" types)

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of the superthreads usually do in fairness. This break is somewhat unusual for us - We've little to be complaining about or to try to fix in a football sense in here at the moment. I'd say even Jose turned off his thread notifications during this break.

In fairness to the gang in here though, while I've been mainly in lurk-mode myself lately, there's been some decent discussion to go over. Like getting a feel for people's thoughts on Ozil joining us in the not-too-distant future. I'm not sure how I feel about that myself, but it's interesting to get the thread feel for it. Ozil is a player who prior to joining Arsenal, many of us in here wanted to see come to United and were disappointed when it didn't happen. It's this Ozil (football-related) discussion which has dominated the last few pages. With that in mind, I don't agree at all that the thread has gone to shít.

Rooney and Anderson are two ex-players who for whatever reasons were known/seen to have fitness troubles (not related to injury) during their time at United. It getting a mention in the United thread in a humorous context every now and then does not turn the whole thread to shít for a period of two weeks. Nor should it be a shock at this stage.

My post was mainly in relation to the debate that was ongoing regarding the ages of players we have signed and should sign. I didn't notice any mention of Rooney in the posts prior to mine at all until another poster felt compelled to bring him up.

The Ozil stuff is fine. I suspect though that it's just the usual completely bogus rumours that papers come out with during international breaks. I think it would be madness to turn him down on a free transfer though.

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The Ozil stuff is fine. I suspect though that it's just the usual completely bogus rumours that papers come out with during international breaks.

The main thing I feel lends some credence to it is how the Arsenal press have started running stories immediately about how he wasn't showing up to media days, etc. Like, the day after these stories crop up, they're starting hit pieces...

S.M.B.

Love the juxtaposition of the intense Ozil debate with the jovial kit kat chunky conversation.

Robson99

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That doesn't change the fact that Madrid scored record breaking number of goals in La Liga playing counter attacking football. Ozil was also great for Germany in 2010 WC when they played counter attacking football..

Check the Madrid counter attacking goals and see in how many of those Ozil was involved.

Madrid also changed from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 once Jose was sacked and also added quality players like Bale, Kroos, Carvajal.

Ozil was excellent in 2010. But thats over 7 years ago. Ditto Real Madrid 5 /6 years ago.
If we going for anyone it should be Sanchez.

Lord TSC

Robson99 wrote: »

Ozil was excellent in 2010. But thats over 7 years ago. Ditto Real Madrid 5 /6 years ago.
If we going for anyone it should be Sanchez.

I'm sure we would love him too, but seems clear he wants a Pep reunion and absolutely nothing else

bangkok

Arsenal would love this Ozil player ye all speak of. Best no10 in the world etc

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Arsenal would love this Ozil player ye all speak of. Best no10 in the world etc

They'd love a quality cm, performing fullbacks, a set quality side and functioning tactics. But sure it's all on ozil.

Ozil has done poorly, but has great talent and in a team that is properly built and balanced could be absolute quality.

On a free transfer could be quality signing and relatively risk free.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They'd love a quality cm, performing fullbacks, a set quality side and functioning tactics. But sure it's all on ozil.

Ozil has done poorly, but has great talent and in a team that is properly built and balanced could be absolute quality.

On a free transfer could be quality signing and relatively risk free.

Said already, on a free id take him but wouldnt be too bothered if he went somewhere else either

Liam O

Robson99 wrote: »

Ozil was excellent in 2010. But thats over 7 years ago. Ditto Real Madrid 5 /6 years ago.
If we going for anyone it should be Sanchez.

He was excellent in 2010 yes. Has been excellent since for Real as you say and has won a world cup as first choice in that time too. You may remember 1 and bit years ago when he finished with 19 assists in the PL. In a team who's main striker was Giroud who while being a good player isn't exactly lightening quick. Was directly involved in 19 goals last season in a widely regarded bad season too.

But let's hear your evidence for him having done nothing in 5 or 6 years. I'm sure it'll be more than 'lazy' and 'doesn't run'.

Robson99

Liam O wrote: »

He was excellent in 2010 yes. Has been excellent since for Real as you say and has won a world cup as first choice in that time too. You may remember 1 and bit years ago when he finished with 19 assists in the PL. In a team who's main striker was Giroud who while being a good player isn't exactly lightening quick. Was directly involved in 19 goals last season in a widely regarded bad season too.

But let's hear your evidence for him having done nothing in 5 or 6 years. I'm sure it'll be more than 'lazy' and 'doesn't run'.

Did I say he has done nothing?????????
Excellent 5+ years ago. Inconsistent since and has been disappearing a lot over the last couple of seasons. We have Mikateryan, Mata and Pogba who can all play at 10. Grizeman if he comes in can also play there. Plus in big games away from home I would have Herrera Matic and Pogba in the middle of the park. So IMO he would do nothing to improve us

GSPfan

To be honest lads I think its all bollox. Özil to United writes itself and we all fell for it.

Giggsy11

Robson99 wrote: »

Ozil was excellent in 2010. But thats over 7 years ago. Ditto Real Madrid 5 /6 years ago.
If we going for anyone it should be Sanchez.

My point isn't about his quality which isn't even debatable, it's about how he fits counter attacking style.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Said already, on a free id take him but wouldnt be too bothered if he went somewhere else either

Your definitly a united fan anyway


#neverwantedhimanyway