Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bangkok

Whatever about a player doing it, they are sometimes young and stupid, a manager like mourinho shouldnt need to do it especially now he is at his "dream club"

Doesnt sit well with me when he is flirting with PSG

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Was it a three year contract he was given? In which case, he's halfway through it and we need to be discussing it I guess.

Then discuss it, in house without all the media bull****.

Managers negotiate contracts all the time and for the vast majority of them you don't even hear about it, you'll even frequently see managers coming to the end of their contract still saying that they'll sit down with the owners at a later date and come to some agreement.

What you'll rarely see is a manager 16 months into the job starting to play those sorts of games, unless I missed the reports of Conte or Guardiola flirting with PSG?

Rayne Wooney

I’d wait and see how this season goes before offering a contract until 2022, who’d have predicted Ancelotti getting one season at Bayern, things can change rapidly

FatherTed

jayo26 wrote: »

If Mourinho's United are playing so great and Klopp's Liverpool are so awful, then why didn't we try to win on Saturday?

Liam O

FatherTed wrote: »

If Mourinho's United are playing so great and Klopp's Liverpool are so awful, then why didn't we try to win on Saturday?

Quite simply because Jose didn't want to risk losing. A few important players missing and just off an international break. Jose generally believed in getting draws away from home against his rivals. Now, classing Liverpool as title rivals is a contentious decision, but it's one he made and they are a team that play very well in big games. He may regret not putting it up to them but he's a pragmatist who sees it as a point gained.

S.M.B.

I think Jose has a valid point about Klopp not going for it by making like for like substitutes and he did acknowledge that they played a little better than expected.

Thank God Klopps Liverpool are struggling though. Takes the attention away from Peps fine job at City.

That's a hectic schedule TSC posted.
Injuries already mounting up and that run of 6 games won't help either.
When's the next presser?

Updates on the following would be nice;

Pogba
Fellani
Carrick
Shaw

Also, Matic could do with some rest. Cannot afford an injury to him. It hasn't taken long for him to be essential in the starting 11.

Also, thinking back on the Liverpool match. Still really annoyed Mata didn't feature.
Miki has been providing goals and assists but his performances haven't been great, actually think Mata would have more of an impact in that role at the moment.

Cantona's Collars

FatherTed wrote: »

If Mourinho's United are playing so great and Klopp's Liverpool are so awful, then why didn't we try to win on Saturday?

Because we were awful,we couldn't string more than 3 passes together in the second half.For all the talk of negative tactics by United, Liverpool's are hardly groundbreaking.Close down,press and hope to win the second ball,not exactly creative genius as they try to get the opposition to make mistakes and capitalize on them.As bad as we were,we were disciplined and Liverpool's pressing game was largely innefective.

sReq | uTeK

If Mourinho continues to win his HOME games, puts the lesser teams to the sword and draws 6 games away from home to the top teams, I reckon he will be there or there abouts when its crunch time.

I'll take that nicely, thanks.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Awful second half.

Think a few are getting a bit carried away though with your outrage.

Hold off giving Jose another contract?? Please.

In fairness playing a dangerous game with his mouthpiece Castles bringing out that piece over the weekend, and then that interview he did in Paris.

Performances like Saturday, the performance, can go ways to lose a manager backing and support, especially when the manager starts fluttering eyes elsewhere or indicating he won't be sticking around.

Look at Koeman at Everton, it's a pretty standard thing.

Personally I wouldn't be rushing to give him a new contract until end of season, to see what tangibly actually happens.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is my take. The players played ****. Maybe if they had actually been able to football things would have better.

Did Jose set them up to be unable to pass or control? Did his set up cause that and the subsequent lack of service and support?

Was our defensive stance 100% down to setup or caused by an inability of the players, through performance, to maintain possession and thus move up the pitch?

His setup was clearly to conceed the game and hit them on the break. By his own admission that Klopp "did well" as Jose expected Klopp to feel pressure to seal the win, withdraw a CM for an attacker and that would leave gaps for us to counter, which never happened.

In itself, infuriated me that Jose can't adapt himself that when he gets into a "big game" against a side that arn't up to much or weak, that he still focuses on the opposition.

Our defensive stance was clearly down to the manager, that is blatantly obvious. Poor performance from the players aside. I'm actually not sure what performance is expected, when the manager consistently sends signals in these big games that he doesn't his players to play their game and be on the front foot.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'll take that nicely, thanks.

I find it amazing how many fans have decided they are content with Manchester United being the small club in big games.

Our manager doesn't even try to beat any of our rivals and people are ok with that? Well I'm not, he needs to grow a set of balls.

There is a time and a place for safety first, but it isn't every time and every place.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Also I’m just go8ng to throw this out there...

Would Jose have employed the same tactics if Pogba,Fellaini and Bailly were available?
Guess we will have to wait until the next “big” away game to see.

Yes.

This is what he has done in every single one of those games while at the club, and at previous clubs. It is how he treats those games. Capitalise on the opponent mistakes, or them opening up through changes, rather than imposing our own style or play onto the opponents.

The frustrating about Pogba last season was having this midfield dynamo we weren't using trying to counter at breakneck speed.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Martial has been very good this season. Why is Martial over Rashford such an issue?

Mata benched for either Darmian or young is the call I'd question.

That was weird alright.

I don't see the big pace difference between Darmian and Blind. Blind is superior on the ball and has a great delivery, so not sure why he wasn't included.

Mata being excluded was odd considering he can control possesion and is comfortable on the ball, not to mention is so clever in his movement and scored twice at Anfield not to long ago.

Young was terrible I thought, losing possession and just being a general moan. More frustrating was seeing all the attacks coming down his flank that he was wasting, and Martial being ignored for large parts of the half. But when he did get on the ball looked confident and played well albeit had little or no opportunity.

I can't understand why he wouldn't play with both Martial and Rashford or even Lingaard, to really exploit them on the counter but with players with more dimensions than Young. All Martial, Rashford and Lingaard have shown to me anyway, that the manager can trust them with defensive duties. Martial especially and if anything Rashford at times looks a bit sulky and slack in his tracking back.

Not that I want my main, potent method of pace and attack back defending at the corner flag.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Christ, had a look at the match thread.

Consisting of Liverpool and “neutrals” discussing how utterly terrible and anti football Utd are. It’s bizzare from the Liverpool fans.

Some really childish stuff in there. I suppose I’m not surprised but then again I am at some of the really immature stuff that is posted.

Can you blame genuine neutrals?

These are billed as big games, they are built up as big games. They are supposed to be big games, and to be honest we spoil every single one we are involved in. I don't get hyped or excited for big matches at all under Jose cause I know he won't change as much as he should.

I used to absolutely foam for these games under Ferguson, and even under Van Gaal.

I think it is pretty pathetic and anti-football that we search for draws or to spoil the game, considering the firepower and squad we have. So not surprised at all neutrals or Liverpool fans get annoyed at it.

I remember plenty of us being the same when we went with Van Gaal to Stamford bridge and pummelled Chelsea until Hazard scored. When generally under Van Gaal we went into these big games looking to dominate the match.

I'm not dragging up Van Gaal as you think I might be in that sense, but I just had more engagement and enjoyment from the big games under him than I am currently.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

That’s just giving the player a free pass. I’ve seen similar performances from him when playing at home.

I think Jose’s tactics are taking too much of the blame for some of the players performances. Lukaku I can understand as the furthest man forward, he was nearly always an isolated figure with little or no service.

I’d be more worried about Mikis form in general than Jose’s tactics.

It is becoming abundantly clear teams are targeting him. We are relying on him to utilise his pace and dribbling ability to drive through the middle and put teams on the back foot.

He was so ruthless start of the season because we started to deploy him centrally and he was SMOKING teams with his ability. It has become pretty clear he is being targetted specifically and in some cases you see him lose the ball with two or three players around him.

That has however benefited our wider players in that not everyone can get doubled up on. It's a compliment to Mhikis early season form he is being targetted and while he can be suspect of sloppyness, I'd say he just needs, and likely will, figure out how to cope with the focused attention he is getting.

sReq | uTeK

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it amazing how many fans have decided they are content with Manchester United being the small club in big games.

Our manager doesn't even try to beat any of our rivals and people are ok with that? Well I'm not, he needs to grow a set of balls.

There is a time and a place for safety first, but it isn't every time and every place.

He really doesn't need to grow a pair. This is a tactic he's utilised throughout his career, a tactic that has been VERY successful, why should he change what is essentially a winning formula?

He's basically saying, I don't need to "RISK" it. A point away from home is a point gained for us and 2 dropped for them. If anything it shows his utter confidence in the team he puts out to defend and adhere to his game plan.

Why is a point away from home a bad thing. fergie used to stack the middle in away games in the champions league irregardless of opposition.

I feel people are missing a crucial point here, he got 75% right on Saturday. We all know that Liverpool STRUGGLE against teams who sit back and give them the ball as their creativeness with the ball is significantly worse than when they press and hurry the opposition. Look at Burnly, go long all day and let them have it. They did nothing.

He played a counter attacking team with Martial, Mikhitaryan and Lukaku, sadly our counter attacking was woeful. I put this down in part to not having a link between winning the ball and getting it quickly to Martial, Mikhitaryan. Herrera who I thought could fulfill that role was very poor in possession on saturday, had we Pogba in there then perhaps the tactics would have worked and we'd be calling it a masterclass.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it amazing how many fans have decided they are content with Manchester United being the small club in big games.

Our manager doesn't even try to beat any of our rivals and people are ok with that? Well I'm not, he needs to grow a set of balls.

There is a time and a place for safety first, but it isn't every time and every place.

Exactly. he would have been as well off putting De Gea and 10 defenders on the pitch. Like watching paint dry. One of the biggest clubs and squads in Europe and we set up to play like that. Time for him to stop being so cowardly and go to win games.

sReq | uTeK

Robson99 wrote: »

Exactly. he would have been as well off putting De Gea and 10 defenders on the pitch. Like watching paint dry. One of the biggest clubs and squads in Europe and we set up to play like that. Time for him to stop being so cowardly and go to win games.

But.........you knew you were getting this when he joined.....a leopard doesn't change his spots.

He's always been a soak it up, hit them on the break manager in the big game. Sadly our counter attacking was poor on Saturday.

It was the same for Inter, Madrid, Chelsea and now us.

Seems to have worked thus far.

TheDoc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He really doesn't need to grow a pair. This is a tactic he's utilised throughout his career, a tactic that has been VERY successful, why should he change what is essentially a winning formula?

Because it is clearly no longer a winning tactic?

I'd think that no wins in 10 games in that scenario, indicate its no longer working.

TheDoc

Robson99 wrote: »

Exactly. he would have been as well off putting De Gea and 10 defenders on the pitch. Like watching paint dry. One of the biggest clubs and squads in Europe and we set up to play like that. Time for him to stop being so cowardly and go to win games.

I think cowardly is too strong a word.

It's a genuine tactic and thinking, deploying a team to soak pressure in a tough away atmosphere and game, nullify the opposition and when the home manager gets pressured into changing, in an offensive manner to secure the win, Jose then sees this as when we will strike through the lines with counter attacks.

It's that 70min + moment I believe, he thinks, is the moment which this tactic pays off.

But I think the problem is it's not working. Teams are either scoring against us before this time, where the team struggles to change its setup to get back into things, or opposing managers know this is where Mourinho wants to capitalise and are conscious against playing into their hands.

Like I'm sure all the managers are briefing players all week against how to spot, deal and cope with the counter attack.

Like that Liverpool team has serious issues and is in poor form. Whatever about the players playing poorly, and they did, and that was an attributing factor, maybe players might be more invigorated and peaked if we tried playing on the front foot? As much as I rate our defence, De Gea and the manager historically in that format of game, I've become increasingly worried and concerned about big games as being a blocker to momentum. For me that Liverpool game has completely ****ed the incredible start, and everyone is going to need to pick themselves up for tomorrow and then the weekend. Don't be surprised at a sloppy or ropey performance tomorrow imo

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness playing a dangerous game with his mouthpiece Castles bringing out that piece over the weekend, and then that interview he did in Paris.

Performances like Saturday, the performance, can go ways to lose a manager backing and support, especially when the manager starts fluttering eyes elsewhere or indicating he won't be sticking around.

Look at Koeman at Everton, it's a pretty standard thing.

Personally I wouldn't be rushing to give him a new contract until end of season, to see what tangibly actually happens.

I agree, why the sudden rush? What's his current contract go out until currently?

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

It is becoming abundantly clear teams are targeting him. We are relying on him to utilise his pace and dribbling ability to drive through the middle and put teams on the back foot.

He was so ruthless start of the season because we started to deploy him centrally and he was SMOKING teams with his ability. It has become pretty clear he is being targetted specifically and in some cases you see him lose the ball with two or three players around him.

That has however benefited our wider players in that not everyone can get doubled up on. It's a compliment to Mhikis early season form he is being targetted and while he can be suspect of sloppyness, I'd say he just needs, and likely will, figure out how to cope with the focused attention he is getting.

There is an easy way around this. LAY THE BALL OFF TO SOMEONE ELSE.
If you have 2 people hurtling down towards you, just lay it off, it creates endless space elsewhere. Mikhitaryan holds onto the ball too long IMO when he could just release it.

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

Because it is clearly no longer a winning tactic?

I'd think that no wins in 10 games in that scenario, indicate its no longer working.

Sorry, when I talk about winning I should clarify that I mean winning TITLES.
I don't think he cares about a draw in Anfield in October come May if he's sitting top of the table.

You remember that guy, I think his name was LVG. I think he had a "REALLY" good record against the top 4, in fact I think he topped the big 4 table...don't really think it ended well for him, think we finished 7th that season.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I agree, why the sudden rush? What's his current contract go out until currently?

He has next season to go, it was a three year deal.

Made a decent start with two trophies but a terrible league campaign.
Started well here, but who knows how the season will go. I think everyone knows what would be acceptable, and what would be unacceptable.
Then he has a final season.

I think the problem with Mourinho is either in his head, or his spin to buy himself excuses and time, he's made out like the club was in chaos and a basket case and nearly beyond saving, before he rode in on his white horse to save us.

It's been pretty obvious from all his interviews about how he comes into big clubs in disaster and sorts them out, from his point of view. So I'm not sure why there would be any rush on the clubs part.

As good a manager as he is, I don't think it would be a total disaster if he left after his contract, there is plenty of good managers and coaches around operating at that level or ready to step up, that would jump at the opportunity to manage our club.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Sorry, when I talk about winning I should clarify that I mean winning TITLES.
I don't think he cares about a draw in Anfield in October come May if he's sitting top of the table.

He won't be winning any TITLES if he repeatedly drops points against teams in the top 8.

TheDoc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Sorry, when I talk about winning I should clarify that I mean winning TITLES.
I don't think he cares about a draw in Anfield in October come May if he's sitting top of the table.

You remember that guy, I think his name was LVG. I think he had a "REALLY" good record against the top 4, in fact I think he topped the big 4 table...don't really think it ended well for him, think we finished 7th that season.

Van Gaals big problem in that last season was putting all his eggs in a basket named Wayne Rooney, who was absolutely dreadful. Well it was one of the big factors for me, retrospectively it's looking like his style, that Dutch ethos, is struggling big time in a game that has moved towards pace and directness and where opponents are much stronger organised in terms of team defensive shape, rather than just good defenders. I think there is really only one "Dutch" coach actually doing well in Europe at the moment, and he doesn't operate in the traditional dutch way(forget his name) Although not like Van Gaal wasn't saying he needed more pace in his team in the attacking areas.

I'd imagine he doesn't care about a draw in Anfield, in the grand scheme of things, I doubt I'll look back on this result as being where we won or lost a title. It's avoiding bananna skins that wins titles. But every now and then, you get into a title race that the big games do matter.

I remember a game against City where the title tilted on that, and they won.
I remember losing a title on goal difference, think that was Chelsea or was it City again?
I remember we were storming a title then I think lost to City and momentum swung under Mancini. (Or am I mixing that one up)

Point being every now and then there is a title where you actually need a bit more. It feels like that this term. I don't think the start city have made this time is like last year. This looks an incredible City team playing in an incredible way. Sure they are likely going to drop points, have a silly result. But considering the way they play, they can, and likely will, smash some teams in the big games and claw back points they drop elsewhere.

We are barely giving ourselves a chance in the big away games of grabbing a serious three points. What really is the worth of a draw, when you think about it in the scheme of those games?

And when you see the general negativity, debate and divisiveness it brings, is it really all worth it, overall, for a measly point?

What was Lukaku thinking mentally on Sunday. He left Everton to join a big club where he could kick on. Where he could stop being labelled (stupidly) a flat track bully and have questions raised about his top 4 goalscoring record(better than Kanes btw) and after a tremendous start to the season he then gets slated badly and questions are all over him again. While I, or you, or us, know it's all nonsense and bollox, if I was Lukaku reading and hearing it all, I'd be pretty ****ing pissed off about it. He was incredibly petulant in the game, clearly frustrated at what was transpiring.

Who else might be sitting there this week, morale dropped a little. Mhikitaryian again having a tough game, Ander was brutal, Matic was pretty poor. Defence was good, DDG was good, but there is more consequences for a manager to think off then just "that was a good point".

The momentum, everything that was going with it, the air of invulnerability, has taken a body shot and now the team need to respond to restore it starting tomorrow and then being really assertive at the weekend, Huddersfield away I believe?

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

He has next season to go, it was a three year deal.

Made a decent start with two trophies but a terrible league campaign.
Started well here, but who knows how the season will go. I think everyone knows what would be acceptable, and what would be unacceptable.
Then he has a final season.

I think the problem with Mourinho is either in his head, or his spin to buy himself excuses and time, he's made out like the club was in chaos and a basket case and nearly beyond saving, before he rode in on his white horse to save us.

It's been pretty obvious from all his interviews about how he comes into big clubs in disaster and sorts them out, from his point of view. So I'm not sure why there would be any rush on the clubs part.

As good a manager as he is, I don't think it would be a total disaster if he left after his contract, there is plenty of good managers and coaches around operating at that level or ready to step up, that would jump at the opportunity to manage our club.

Let it run to the third year, I'm not sure what the panic is.

But I do think he's doing a good job but performances against so called top 6 can improve. Injuries are not helping this.
It's a shame we couldn't face Liverpool with a full strength squad.

Ultimately results are that matters and I still think we will be closest to City this season. It's a shame we can't step it further.
But there is clear progress. Winning the games you should be winning well is where we have faltered for so long. It seems that issue has been addressed.

sReq | uTeK

TheDoc wrote: »

Van Gaals big problem in that last season was putting all his eggs in a basket named Wayne Rooney, who was absolutely dreadful. Well it was one of the big factors for me, retrospectively it's looking like his style, that Dutch ethos, is struggling big time in a game that has moved towards pace and directness and where opponents are much stronger organised in terms of team defensive shape, rather than just good defenders. I think there is really only one "Dutch" coach actually doing well in Europe at the moment, and he doesn't operate in the traditional dutch way(forget his name) Although not like Van Gaal wasn't saying he needed more pace in his team in the attacking areas.

I'd imagine he doesn't care about a draw in Anfield, in the grand scheme of things, I doubt I'll look back on this result as being where we won or lost a title. It's avoiding bananna skins that wins titles. But every now and then, you get into a title race that the big games do matter.

I remember a game against City where the title tilted on that, and they won.
I remember losing a title on goal difference, think that was Chelsea or was it City again?
I remember we were storming a title then I think lost to City and momentum swung under Mancini. (Or am I mixing that one up)

Point being every now and then there is a title where you actually need a bit more. It feels like that this term. I don't think the start city have made this time is like last year. This looks an incredible City team playing in an incredible way. Sure they are likely going to drop points, have a silly result. But considering the way they play, they can, and likely will, smash some teams in the big games and claw back points they drop elsewhere.

We are barely giving ourselves a chance in the big away games of grabbing a serious three points. What really is the worth of a draw, when you think about it in the scheme of those games?

And when you see the general negativity, debate and divisiveness it brings, is it really all worth it, overall, for a measly point?

What was Lukaku thinking mentally on Sunday. He left Everton to join a big club where he could kick on. Where he could stop being labelled (stupidly) a flat track bully and have questions raised about his top 4 goalscoring record(better than Kanes btw) and after a tremendous start to the season he then gets slated badly and questions are all over him again. While I, or you, or us, know it's all nonsense and bollox, if I was Lukaku reading and hearing it all, I'd be pretty ****ing pissed off about it. He was incredibly petulant in the game, clearly frustrated at what was transpiring.

Who else might be sitting there this week, morale dropped a little. Mhikitaryian again having a tough game, Ander was brutal, Matic was pretty poor. Defence was good, DDG was good, but there is more consequences for a manager to think off then just "that was a good point".

The momentum, everything that was going with it, the air of invulnerability, has taken a body shot and now the team need to respond to restore it starting tomorrow and then being really assertive at the weekend, Huddersfield away I believe?

Surely if a team with Wayne Rooney in it was good enough to beat the top 4, its good enough to beat the minnows, I don't see your logic there.

Anyway, regarding big games in big occasions, I agree. I'm sure Jose would to, if it was a game we HAD to win and the title was dependent on it I'm sure the game plan would be significantly different. I.E when we played City in the cup last season after 4 defeats in a row and he fielded a strong team to win the game and went toe to toe with them and won 2-1.

My point is it's October, he doesn't need to win this game, he just needs to avoid defeat, which he did.

People saying it was a bad campaign, I'd disagree. He clearly prioritised the Europa Cup as the more strategic route into the champions league. He was correct in that decision.

Managers make informed decisions based on evidence based information, or at least good ones should, he seems to play the odds. People might not like that initial result, but long term... which is the definition of the premiership, it has paid off for him in every league he's taken on.

bangkok

Martial plays the exact same position as Neymar.... imagine the outrage here if Neymar played with us and was asked to do the same job martial had to do at Anfield

sReq | uTeK

bucketybuck wrote: »

He won't be winning any TITLES if he repeatedly drops points against teams in the top 8.

It's been one game, one game in which the counter attacking was poor. Like I said the tactics worked in shutting Liverpool out they just were ineffective going forward.

I think you need to look at the bigger picture, the league is a 38 game season. A point away to Liverpool is a good result. That we didn't play will and still came away with a point is testament to the commitment he instills in his defenders.

I'd be worried if we weren't 2nd, 2 points off the title, 2 months in with 2 goals conceded in 8 games, 2 of which were against stoke, so year 7 clean sheets, 22 goals scored.

I think it's been a good start. I'll reserve judgement for a little while longer.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

Martial plays the exact same position as Neymar.... imagine the outrage here if Neymar played with us and was asked to do the same job martial had to do at Anfield

He plays in France, so no need to worry about that.

Why would there be outrage, do you think because you are good with the ball you should do nothing without it?

Happy to have a player of Martials quality that can take instructions in the dressing room and work his bollix off on the pitch in order to ensure we achieve a point away from home. It's good to see players with all the skill in the world showing that they can do the sh!tty jobs when needed.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I think you need to look at the bigger picture,

Its exactly the bigger picture that concerns me, unless you really think people consider a point away to Liverpool a bad result.

I also disagree about this being a one off result that nobody will remember in April. I think it will be a watershed result, the sort of result that people will point back at as the point where the excuses started to sound a bit tired. We saw similar performances last season against the likes of Chelsea and nobody was concerned at all, we understood the whys and whatnots.

This was a different context, this was a form team going to a side with a defense that had been creaking badly and we didn't even try to test them. Fall short in the league this year and this is exactly the sort of game people will be remembering when they wonder why United spent so much money but couldn't compete with their rivals.

sReq | uTeK

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its exactly the bigger picture that concerns me, unless you really think people consider a point away to Liverpool a bad result.

I also disagree about this being a one off result that nobody will remember in April. I think it will be a watershed result, the sort of result that people will point back at as the point where the excuses started to sound a bit tired. We saw similar performances last season against the likes of Chelsea and nobody was concerned at all, we understood the whys and whatnots.

This was a different context, this was a form team going to a side with a defense that had been creaking badly and we didn't even try to test them. Fall short in the league this year and this is exactly the sort of game people will be remembering when they wonder why United spent so much money but couldn't compete with their rivals.

A: your post suggests you can foresee exactly where we will be finishing up with regards the title race, which is contradictory of your opening statement that you're looking at the bigger picture. By saying we will in fact be looking back at this result as a watershed moment you're indirectly saying the rest of the season is pointless....why bother trying any more if we won't win, is that it?

I on the other hand, will wait to see where we are come christmas time. I think we will have a better understanding of where we are going by then.

B:Last season was a transition period, I can overlook any and all performances against the big teams, especially a 3-0 loss to Chelsea when we conceded in the 1st minute and the game plan essentially went out the window. I Also remember the FA Cup 1-0 loss when the performance was vastly different and even with 10 men were unlucky not to get a result.

C: Whilst we were in form we were missing key players that have attributed to that form you touch on. Bailly, Rashford (slight knock) Pogba and Fellani.

I just can't see how 1 game in 8 sets the tone for the season, especially when we've had 7 clean sheets and scored 22 goals.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Let it run to the third year, I'm not sure what the panic is.

But I do think he's doing a good job but performances against so called top 6 can improve. Injuries are not helping this.
It's a shame we couldn't face Liverpool with a full strength squad.

Ultimately results are that matters and I still think we will be closest to City this season. It's a shame we can't step it further.
But there is clear progress. Winning the games you should be winning well is where we have faltered for so long. It seems that issue has been addressed.

Yeah I don't see the rush. He has done well, brought the team back on track, and should have a good title tilt this season.

But it all depends on how it goes, if we lose out in a good race, ok, there can only be one title winner and sometimes while you get infuriated or frustrated, it happens. Aslong as we are genuinely in the hunt. We don't "have" to win anything this season to have had a succesfull one in the grand scheme of recovering ourselves to be title contenders and playing and competing like a big club.

Just like last season you can win things, but have reservations and issues.

Getting a new deal in place not even halfway through his existing contract, seems hasty

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He plays in France, so no need to worry about that.

Why would there be outrage, do you think because you are good with the ball you should do nothing without it?

Happy to have a player of Martials quality that can take instructions in the dressing room and work his bollix off on the pitch in order to ensure we achieve a point away from home. It's good to see players with all the skill in the world showing that they can do the sh!tty jobs when needed.

yes when needed, against real quality teams when you are a man down or something and your backs are against the wall, not against one of the worst defenses in the league!!

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

A: your post suggests you can foresee exactly where we will be finishing up with regards the title race, which is contradictory of your opening statement that you're looking at the bigger picture. By saying we will in fact be looking back at this result as a watershed moment you're indirectly saying the rest of the season is pointless....why bother trying any more if we won't win, is that it?

You might want to try that again, because I don't know where you are getting all that from or where you are going with it.

Denmark in the play offs!

bangkok

zorro2566 wrote: »

Denmark in the play offs!

United playing Denmark??!

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

United playing Denmark??!

According to the match thread the other day, Ireland played Liverpool.;)

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/920050211258617859

sReq | uTeK

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/920050211258617859

Jesus. It's like he entered my mind

Anyway you'll always home some people. Imagine he went for it and pool won and we were all on here saying "ah well, at least he went for it". Thats great you've just spurred on the opposition who you're competing with for champions league places.

I can guarantee you Pool were devastated in that dressing room thereafter.

Job done.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/920050211258617859

but before the game we were all saying that this was one of the worst liverpool defenses playing in a long time and were there for the taking.

It was our chance to lay down a marker, instead it was probably one of the worst displays i ever remember watching united play all while city score 7 against stoke

Don't shoot the messenger!

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Don't shoot the messenger!

haha, no but i think Curtis is talking crap

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

haha, no but i think Curtis is talking crap

I think he's making a really valid point. But each to their own I suppose.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I think he's making a really valid point. But each to their own I suppose.

Actually due to listen to Sunday Supp pod on drive home.

But Custis is one of the biggest sycophants in the business when it comes to United. He was licking the hoop off Van Gaal until the point it became "collective" to slate him.

He is an incredibly selective and biased journalist who at times prioritises his exclusive and select relationships with United,staff and players, over being actually objective at times.

TheDoc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Jesus. It's like he entered my mind

Anyway you'll always home some people. Imagine he went for it and pool won and we were all on here saying "ah well, at least he went for it". Thats great you've just spurred on the opposition who you're competing with for champions league places.

I can guarantee you Pool were devastated in that dressing room thereafter.

Job done.

See you say that, but there is nothing easier for a manager to deflect a poor result off than someone who comes and sets up incredibly defensive.

While there is nothing wrong with it, it's a slanderous term in the game and its a dig. You see it all the time. The massive irony is that Jose, one of the most defensive minded in certain situations, constantly argues and defends it and tries to pull the wool over peoples minds.

Even his post match presser, which I thought was brutally condescending at times. He didnt sit there and just go "yeah I setup the team to be defensive and soak the pressure and try hit them on the break" he tried to be clever, saying absolute bollox about how it was enjoyable for real football people (paraphrase) absolute nonsense.

Because he knows himself that a defensive setup is frowned upon, and no fans of a big club want their team to be a rear guard counter attack team conceding to the opposition.

If Jose was so spot on yesterday, or spot on in any of these games, he would be comfortable just being honest and straight about it. But he's not, one of the biggest egomaniacs in the game, with all his success and history who is respected in a footballing sense, still doesn't feel comfortable calling a spade a spade.

Players arn't stupid. If I was a Liverpool player I wouldn't be devastated, I'd be furious I dropped points against a bunch of pussies. That's how I took games like that where you would absolutely smoke someone but not win. But it has to be one of the easiest things for a manager to twist for his supports.

So yeah your right, Liverpool fans should probably be asking why they didn't win, why their squad has no specialists in the opposition box, but they can brush it all away because we played that way and the narrative gets shaped. Just like Jose did with Burnley and countless others last season.

You know I actually wouldn't mind losing a game like this, if we went hell for leather and actually tried stamping domination and tried to win. Because at this stage its become mind numbing boring, tedious and most importantly predictable.

Actually getting angry at the thought of the missed opportunity, paying that much respect to this Liverpool team. Spurs, Chelsea or mainly City away you know what I kinda get it. Still grates me, that our manager won't trust the players he has bought, or he has inherited to go stamp their authority on a game, but I can accept sometimes you hit a team in mental good form or are just better and you need to account for. And that is a strength of Jose. He's not to big to think he can't tailor his tactics to counter opposition strengths.

But for **** sake look at this Liverpool team. Man of the match was basically a new 20 year old right back, the worst left back in the league was barely tested and a midfield with the combined creativity of a blind painter dominated the game.

I'll admit some bias here that it ****ing boils my piss for a manager, or a player, to not look at Jordan Henderson and say "he's ****ing useless, lets have him"

Think I'll stop now and spare you all my tears, cause actually more I think back on Saturday I'm actually just so annoyed and borderline despondent, when there is a game tomorrow I hope we can get back to what we were doing. Because I've been pretty positive and thoroughly enjoying our season thus far, and think I;ve been hiding my Jose hatred pretty well(Adox accepting and comfortably admitting I massively dislike this manager in most senses)

I'm wasn't thrilled about the way we approached that game the other day - It was a Liverpool team in poor form at Anfield, not Real on a hot streak at the Bernabeu. They were shown a bit too much respect IMO. And now, that '3 years since Jose got a win over a Top 6 team in the league' stat is not a good one for our title aspirations. Not this season.

That said, I think the players let the manager and his gameplan down last Saturday. They couldn't string a run of passes/possession together and I can't remember the last time I witnessed so many unforced errors in a game from our players. Some of them, enough to have a negative effect on the manager's gameplan, were shadows of their usual selves.

Last season in both fixtures, Jose faced Liverpool with a similar gameplan to last Saturday's - I honestly didn't mind so much last season, but I thought the team played Jose's gameplan much better in those fixtures than they did last Saturday. I'm not absolving the manager of fault on Saturday, but I think the players shoulder a large portion of it on the day.

'Fault'? We drew at Anfield, we weren't beaten or hammered. And I did say before the game that a point at Anfield, post-international break, wouldn't be the worst result. Why does there need to be 'fault'?

Because it wasn't a very cohesive performance, quite disjointed actually. It wasn't a masterclass in defending which saw out the game, and it wasn't a draw in which we were in control and comfortably achieved it. The manner in which we took that point was a letdown, it was nervy, with the team lucky to escape Anfield with it IMO. Liverpool's lack of a concise finisher, and DDG with that save, helped us get that draw as much as our own execution of the gameplan did. In isolation it's grand, but in the bigger picture I'm not so sure.

I know league titles aren't won in 1 game, and that 1 point at Anfield could be a very important point by the time the season ends. However, we have Spurs and Chelsea coming up in our next 3 games. Going by Jose's results against Top 6 teams over the last 3 years, we're likely going to lose or draw those games.

Say we get 3 points against Huddersfield, and 1 point each against Spurs and Chelsea for a total of 5 in the next 3 games. That is likely not good enough. Definitely not good enough to keep up with our current title rivals who could create quite a gap between us in the meantime.

Never mind City pulling away at the top. The rest of the Top 6 pack, who the team have done some good work to create distance over, will have a chance to close the gap with us if 5 points is our total haul from the next 3 games.

It has to be okay to talk about this sensibly, and not just sweep it under the 'Defence wins titles' or 'Once we beat all the rest' rugs. We've already dropped points at Stoke, we're not going to steam-roll all of the teams outside the Top 6 so I think we can forget about that route to success this season.

We need a balance, and that comes from defeating a Top 6 team every now and then in the midst of those draws. Even if it's just Arsenal, Pool and Spurs at Old Trafford. This isn't about personal pride or making our big games more attractive to watch, I'm not looking for us to stuff City at the Etihad or even at home, not just yet. It's about a realistic route to the title, and if not the title this season, a comfortable spot in the Top 4 not far off the pace of the winners.

There's some great work done so far, a lot to be positive about. It's just that the fruits of that hard work and the meaning of it could mean a lot less by early November if we're content to just take a point each time we face a Top 6 team. It has to be okay to be able to talk about that, sensibly.

Rojo back at light training with the squad

Great news

Will be ready for full training in two weeks.