2017 World Elite Championships, Hamburg.

Royal Legend

Hastentoadd wrote: »

All I get is adverts?

just sent you a pm

Joe_ Public

Dunno. Maybe try this one.

http://www.aiba.org/live-hamburg2017wch/

yabadabado

Can I get a pm as well cheers

Royal Legend

yabadabado wrote: »

Can I get a pm as well cheers

its the same link as Joe's above you post

Joe_ Public

Sorry if the links dont work. I dont have any problems with them or see any ads at all, if you just log onto the official website or even the aiba site, you should be able to access it easily from there.

Royal Legend

yabadabado wrote: »

Can I get a pm as well cheers

just did

Royal Legend

C'Mon Joe

if he could open up that eye he could take this, maybe the cuban will be on the backfoot

Joe_ Public

Dont thnk there's that much in it, but it's not good enough against La Cruz, you have to be the clear winner to get rounds against him. Dont think Joe has done quite enough yet.

Joe_ Public

Not to be but no shame in it, by far his best performance against La Cruz yet. Three judges gave him a round, i imagine it was the first?

Royal Legend

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not to be but no shame in it, by far his best performance against La Cruz yet. Three judges gave him a round, i imagine it was the first?

Well done Joe, no shame in getting another World Silver medal, i am sure is hoping this fella Le Cruz retires or goes pro shortly

Hastentoadd

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not to be but no shame in it, by far his best performance against La Cruz yet. Three judges gave him a round, i imagine it was the first?

La Cruz is simply a fantastic fighter. The decision on the fight was correct but as you say that was the closest Joe got to him over the years. The border between these two is tightening

Burial.

La Cruz is one of the best amateurs ever and one of the most elusive boxers I've ever seen pro or amateur. No shame in losing to him. Joe is a fantastic fighter and he's only 23. Fair play kiddo.

Hastentoadd

pac_man wrote: »

I'd imagine it was the first. I'm not sure Ward can do much more. You'd hope that by Tokyo, Cruz would be 32-33 that his reflexes might slow a bit but it's kinda clutching at straws.

Cruz and Ward are very much closer on a competitive level than they used to be

boxer.fan

Well done to Joe. Great achievement for him. La Cruz is a very frustrating opponent. Awkward & slick, perfect for the amateur game. As I said earlier, he has Joe's number.

Joe_ Public

pac_man wrote: »

I'd imagine it was the first. I'm not sure Ward can do much more. You'd hope that by Tokyo, Cruz would be 32-33 that his reflexes might slow a bit but it's kinda clutching at straws.

It had to be the first, i definitely had Joe ahead in it but not by a lot. You cant fault him, went out very positive as he had to do, but that only gets you so far against this guy. Cruz will definitely slow down alright, but will Joe stick around for 2020? I'm not sure we'll see him in another worlds, to be honest, but hope i'm wrong about that.

normanoffside

How did 2 Judges give that to the Russian? Pure joke

Hastentoadd

pac_man wrote: »

I'm not sure they are.

I have watched Joe being outclassed by Cruz. Tonight was a much closer affair

Joe_ Public

pac_man wrote: »

One of them was a Lithuanian judge I think? Would have thought they'd have someone more neutral. It would have been sickening if he got that result.

And how close it came to it! You could simply dismiss it as cr&p judging only with Tishchenko, it appears to be something of a pattern when you consider Rio and the questionable decision he got v the NZ guy earlier in the tournament.

Joe_ Public

pac_man wrote: »

What fight are you referring to in which he was outclassed? I think most of the fights have had the same pattern to be honest.

I think the difference between tonight and the others was Joe was tactically better and gave himself the best chance of winning or, at least, of keeping it tight. If we are being honest, though, he probably stood little chance of winning, for all 3 judges probably gave him the first round.

walshb

Didn't get to see it but I assume Cruz given credit from the judges for simply turning up?

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Didn't get to see it but I assume Cruz given credit from the judges for simply turning up?

Not really. Joe seems to have been ahead on 3 scorecards after the 1st, just didnt sustain it. Cruz made him look a bit silly at times in the 3rd.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not really. Joe seems to have been ahead on 3 scorecards after the 1st, just didnt sustain it. Cruz made him look a bit silly at times in the 3rd.

Made him look silly? By landing punches and not getting hit? Or by just not getting hit?

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Made him look silly? By landing punches and getting hit? Or by just not getting hit?

La Cruz was making joe miss while countering with the occasional shot from unorthodox angles

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Made him look silly? By landing punches and getting hit? Or by just not getting hit?

By using his phenomenal boxing skills to make Joe miss and land with the telling counter punches himself.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

By using his phenomenal boxing skills to make Joe miss and land with the telling counter punches himself.

Sounds like a bit of a snoozer. No different than their previous meetings really.

Joe_ Public

pac_man wrote: »

What did he do that was tactically different this time around? I noticed he was keeping it tight in the first round but I felt that changed in the other rounds.

I saw it a bit differently, probably need to rewatch to be certain, but my impression was he started at a higher tempo than in previous fights and that gradually wore down until the end. He was more positive, less inclined to stand off which i dont think will help all that much to beat Cruz but will enable you to keep it tighter on the scorecard.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Sounds like a bit of a snoozer. No different than their previous meetings really.

Watch the fight lad. No point in commenting on a fight you haven't watched.

FTA69

Jesus the British commentators are insufferable, Woodhall especially. The only way to watch this is with the sound off.

walshb

I watched the fight on YouTube..

Don't really know what to say on it apart from it must be torture on the judges trying to A stay focused and B justifying why they are scoring rds as they are...

La Cruz. Am I missing something...lands eff all, and when he does land looks to be incorrect/non legal punches...

He will never turn pro because that messing around won't cut it come rds 4-12...

The most uninspiring so called "great" amateur in boxing history!

Anyway, well done Joe. Another world silver.

Burial.

Essence of Boxing will always be hit and not get hit. La Cruz does that better than most fighters could only dream of. Once again your fascination with power in Boxing is mindbending.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I watched the fight on YouTube..

Don't really know what to say on it apart from it must be torture on the judges trying to A stay focused and B justifying why they are scoring rds as they are...

La Cruz. Am I missing something...lands eff all, and when he does land looks to be incorrect/non legal punches...

He will never turn pro because that messing around won't cut it come rds 4-12...

The most uninspiring so called "great" amateur in boxing history!

Anyway, well done Joe. Another world silver.

He lands more than he takes, though, isn't that what ultimately counts? I dont know about his punches, they dont look illegal to me but i'm no expert.

I think he could stand in and trade too if he wanted, he just simply takes the economical route to victory. Not having too many hard fights will definitely stand to him over the next 6-7 years if he chooses to go on that long.

walshb

Burial. wrote: »

Essence of Boxing will always be hit and not get hit. La Cruz does that better than most fighters could only dream of. Once again your fascination with power in Boxing is mindbending.

Yes, because I mentioned power in every sentence of my post.

Absolutely nothing to do with power..not even a sniff of implying anything to do with power..

Seems you too obtuse to realise..

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

He lands more than he takes, though, isn't that what ultimately counts? I dont know about his punches, they dont look illegal to me but i'm no expert.

I think he could stand in and trade too if he wanted, he just simply takes the economical route to victory. Not having too many hard fights will definitely stand to him over the next 6-7 years if he chooses to go on that long.

That's just it. I really struggled to see actual effective landed shots. Shots that I consider worthy and legal and of substance. The showed some replays and the shots barely connected, and with what seemed like the finger part of the gloves.

Joe landed every bit as much effectively, plus he was the aggressor throughout.

I am not arguing a win for either man.

That moving around with hands around his knees seems to impress some people, maybe even the judges award him praise for it, because the whole hitting and getting hit is fine if you are actually hitting first, and I mean proper legal hitting. Not that sh1t La Cruz does.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

That's just it. I really struggled to see actual effective landed shots. Shots that I consider worthy and legal and of substance. The showed some replays and the shots barely connected, and with what seemed like the finger part of the gloves.

Joe landed every bit as much effectively, plus he was the aggressor throughout.

I am not arguing a win for either man.

That moving around with hands around his knees seems to impress some people, maybe even the judges award him praise for it, because the whole hitting and getting hit is fine if you are actually hitting first, and I mean proper legal hitting. Not that sh1t La Cruz does.

I do think its probably fair to say that Cruz gets judged partly on reputation alone these days and he knows it, its not enough just to go in and match him, you have to clearly beat him to have any hope of getting a decision. Thats the privilege that comes with years of brilliance and dominance, I suppose.

Joe did land a few clean punches, he was actually ahead after R1, or at least I believe he was. But if Cruz was getting away with bad punches or not doing enough to win, i'm sure Joe or the irish coaches would only be too eager to point it out. But in all their years fighting, i've never heard anything from Joe other than he was beaten fair and square by an oppontnet who was just far too good for him and everyone else.

The good news, according to reports I read yesterday, is that Joe has 2020 in his sights and Cruz may have been struggling with his weight last week and might be forced to think about moving up or even quitting. Wouldn't set too much store by that, but you never know.

walshb

I wouldn't expect Joe to be coming out crying and moaning about the loss.

Anyway, all I see is two men almost going through the motions. Pitter patter nonsense from one Cuban and Joe trying his best to make a fight of it.

I'd be the first to praise La Cruz if he did stuff for me to praise him. This being elusive gets him praise, but stop already, and then look at other areas. I want to see landed effective and clean scores. I didn't see them.

That is their third meeting, and you usually read this nonsense of "Joe being outclassed." Utter sh1t.

Their 2013 semi final was a complete farce of a boxing match and I was reading masterclass from La Cruz. I don't think a single clean punch landed in the whole fight. They then fought in the 2015 final. I thought La Cruz did better there. Looked more the winner, but again, a very awkward non offensive display. Then the other day which I was left scratching my head as regards what exactly I was meant to be watching or what was meant to be boxing/impressive.

Crap stuff altogether....

Joe_ Public

Hey, fair enough. You dont have to like it. I wouldn't claim that they were the fights of the tournament or anything close. Its his style and it obviously works for him, and I saw him land a few myself, more than Joe anyway which is what matters in the end.

And as we know probably 8 times out of 10 its the aggressor who gets favoured in these fights, whether they're the clear winner or not, so i'm not inclined to quibble when a fighter gets by on his wits and style alone, especially when it's quite obvious he could up the rhythm and tempo any time he pleases.