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Excessive quote from solicitor

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  • 24-08-2017 7:25pm
    #1
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭


    I am in a pickle on this one. Would appreciate some advice on this matter.

    2015 - I own a property with my parents at this time. I have recently married so we buy my parents share of the property and engage solicitor A to complete the legal end of things. This includes all the land registry work etc.

    2017 - I want to sell this property and buy a different property. I didn't like the service from solicitor A so decide to hire solicitor B. Solicitor B quotes me about 5k for all conveyancing and additional fees etc. Professional fees amount to about 3k of that.

    New solicitor seeks the deeds from the bank, bank informs that they are still with solicitor A. Turns out that the land registry stuff is still pending, 2 years on. Solicitor B advises that it might just be easier to complete the sale using solicitor A as changing over now could add months on to our sale completion time.

    We get a quote from solicitor A (remember, they have already been paid to complete the work required from them in 2015). This quote really blew my mind - €11,0000+. Professional fees are more than 7k of this fee (which they say is a reduced rate).

    I feel like solicitor A is taking advantage of our situation (resulting from them not completing the land registry work from 2015) and trying to wring us for every penny.

    Any thoughts on the above? What course of action do I have here? I am absolutely fuming about this.


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    #2
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    WTF, that's disgraceful!


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    #3
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Vim Fuego wrote: »
    I am in a pickle on this one. Would appreciate some advice on this matter.

    2015 - I own a property with my parents at this time. I have recently married so we buy my parents share of the property and engage solicitor A to complete the legal end of things. This includes all the land registry work etc.

    2017 - I want to sell this property and buy a different property. I didn't like the service from solicitor A so decide to hire solicitor B. Solicitor B quotes me about 5k for all conveyancing and additional fees etc. Professional fees amount to about 3k of that.

    New solicitor seeks the deeds from the bank, bank informs that they are still with solicitor A. Turns out that the land registry stuff is still pending, 2 years on. Solicitor B advises that it might just be easier to complete the sale using solicitor A as changing over now could add months on to our sale completion time.

    We get a quote from solicitor A (remember, they have already been paid to complete the work required from them in 2015). This quote really blew my mind - €11,0000+. Professional fees are more than 7k of this fee (which they say is a reduced rate).

    I feel like solicitor A is taking advantage of our situation (resulting from them not completing the land registry work from 2015) and trying to wring us for every penny.

    Any thoughts on the above? What course of action do I have here? I am absolutely fuming about this.

    Contact the law society?


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    #4
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Why would changing solicitor add months to the time? Surely it's just a case of solicitor B requesting file from solicitor A?

    Solicitors can charge what they like as long as they inform you in advance what the fees are, if you are not happy with the quote then you use a different solicitor.

    What's the hold up with the registration?


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    #5
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    Solicitor B ( who has been very good) was the one who admitted that it may be better for us to revert to the original solicitor. One matter is that solicitor A has a legal obligation to the bank to complete the land registry stuff. The bank would have to agree to allow solicitor B to complete this work.

    Unsure what the holdup is with the registration. I know that they only started the process in Summer 2016. The status of the application at the moment is such that the registry had queries with the application which solicitor A has yet to resolve.

    Unfortunately, solicitor A is also my parents' solicitor. Their longterm solictor retired and solicitor A inherited the business. Parents will likely move thier business elsewhere as a result of this.


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    #6
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    Contact the law society?

    We're asking B about this but my main goal is the sale of my home within a reasonable timeframe.


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    #7
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Vim Fuego wrote: »
    We're asking B about this but my main goal is the sale of my home within a reasonable timeframe.

    If your gripe is about the quote given, the law society cannot dictate what a solicitor quotes for doing work, they can censure the solicitor if he adds on additional fees at the end which you were not made aware of when agreeing the price.

    The issues he is resolving, is the issue his paper work? (Standard forms) or is the solicitor having to get info somewhere else like the CoCo/ your bank/yourself or your parent's solicitor?

    Op, the same solicitor cannot represent both sides in a property sale, it's a conflict of interest, how could A be both yours and your parents solicitor when you bought the house?


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    #8
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    davo10 wrote: »
    The issues he is resolving, is the issue his paper work? (Standard forms) or is the solicitor having to get info somewhere else like the CoCo/ your bank/yourself?

    We don't know the issue. A just said that it's waiting for attention as if it is just in the queue with the registry. However, B looked up the dealing number and informed us that the status is "queried" meaning that something is outstanding. We need to raise this with A and get a full breakdown of the current status.


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    #9
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Vim Fuego wrote: »
    Any thoughts on the above? What course of action do I have here? I am absolutely fuming about this.

    Collect your file from Solicitor A. Give it to Solicitor B and ask him to proceed with the sale.

    If there is any difficulty in getting your file from solicitor A, get solicitor B to do it on your behalf.


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    #10
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Pat Mustard wrote: »
    Collect your file from Solicitor A. Give it to Solicitor B and ask him to proceed with the sale.

    If there is any difficulty in getting your file from solicitor A, get solicitor B to do it on your behalf.

    This. As far as I know Solicitor B can tell any prospective purchaser's solicitor what the dealing number in the land registry is so they can connect this dealing (this new sale) with the older dealing (the transfer into your sole name). The professional fee can depend on the price of a deal, if your sale is high, your fees could be high.


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    #11
    catrionanic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭catrionanic


    You can't really complain to the law society about the fee, but you absolutely can about the land registry issue. That is ridiculous. It should have been completed ages ago.


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    #12
    juke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭juke


    catrionanic wrote: »
    You can't really complain to the law society about the fee, but you absolutely can about the land registry issue. That is ridiculous. It should have been completed ages ago.

    First registrations can take 4+ years to complete (in the Land Registry) - unusual, but it happens. Might have nothing to do with the solicitor A.

    The Land Registry are very receptive to expediting applications where a new sale is dependent on it.

    OP, professional fees sounds high - but quotes vary a lot. Price shouldn't be your deciding factor.

    Ask solicitor A to file a letter of expedite, hound the Land Registry yourself until the dealing is registered, engage solicitor B.


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    #13
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    The backlog in the land registry is shocking but as pointed out, they can expedite certain cases. Try talking to your local td, as far as I know there's a dedicated contact in the land registry for them.


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    #14
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    catrionanic wrote: »
    You can't really complain to the law society about the fee, but you absolutely can about the land registry issue. That is ridiculous. It should have been completed ages ago.

    There are Land Registry dealings which can take that long to complete.


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    #15
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    The mapping is done on the land registry side which is good news. Apparently that is the longest part. Called the land registry on Friday and got that update which is good news at least.

    Had a conversation with the expensive solicitor today. He said he couldn't go as low as the other solicitor on the fees. He kept banging on about the risk they'll be taking on which seemed to be linked to the value of both the property we're selling and the one we're buying.

    I don't get this part at all - we're not buying and selling mansions in D4 here, and I've never heard mention of solicitor's risk linked to the price. Does any of that make sense to anyone?


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    #16
    smeal
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭smeal


    Does the property you intend to buy require a First Registration? Is the property you are buying owned by the banks?


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    #17
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    New property is TBC - we have some bids in and our eyes on a few houses but nothing final yet. I believe our main target is already registered though.


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    #18
    smeal
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭smeal


    7k for a residential conveyance is insane. The only time I have ever seen fees near that is where the file has dragged on for years due to some external contentious matter which has resulted in disputes or litigation surrounding the transaction i.e. right of way disputes. This is more likely to happen in land sales as opposed to residential transactions though.

    What justification has he given for charging this fee? Does he see it as being a contentious sale for any similar reasons that I have raised above? If so then he probably shouldn't have advised you to purchase the property in the first place given it was only 2 years ago.

    Contact the Law Society asap if he fails to give reasonable justification.


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    #19
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    smeal wrote: »
    What justification has he given for charging this fee? Does he see it as being a contentious sale for any similar reasons that I have raised above? If so then he probably shouldn't have advised you to purchase the property in the first place given it was only 2 years ago.

    Contact the Law Society asap if he fails to give reasonable justification.

    No justification despite being asked multiple occasions - just that it covers the "risk" they are taking on due to the value of the properties. As I said, the properties are an apartment and a family semi-detached. Nothing weird, unusual or expensive. They "couldn't possibly" do the professional fees at €3k (which is the higher end of things from what I have seen online).

    We're selling an apartment in a development where 2 other units have been sold in the past year without issue (advertised, sold and appearing on the price register in a timely fashion). I can't imagine it will be a contentious sale at all.

    At this stage - new solicitor is looking for a copy of our deeds to see if it is possible for them to complete the land registry side of things. I know people on here have said that it should be a case of moving the file, but both solicitors here are saying it's not as simple as that (unfortunately).


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    #20
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Vim Fuego wrote: »
    both solicitors here are saying it's not as simple as that (unfortunately).

    It may not be as simple as that for solicitor A but you need to get whichever solicitor you choose to sort this out for you.

    Is it possible to get a full copy of your file from A and give that to B, to begin work? B should be able to answer that for you.


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    #21
    Vim Fuego
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Vim Fuego


    Thanks - in the process of doing that. Original solicitors are being a pain about everything though. i.e. "I can't send over a full copy of the deed, it would take an hour to photocopy that". This is the sort of crap I'm dealing with.


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    #22
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    It sounds like Solicitor A is charging you a rate based on the price of the purchase property - that is not allowed by the Law Society.

    Get a friend to ring up for a quote for a cheaper property by 100k and see what their price is.

    Sign a form of authority for Solicitor B to obtain the file from Solicitor A. Solicitor A has already been paid, he has no reason to hang onto the file. The tail end of a conveyancing matter is Land registry and then bank to return the deeds. If Solicitor A has given an undertaking to return your title deeds to your bank as security for your mortgage, just get Solicitor B to provide another ATR to your bank and for your bank to remove the ATR from Solicitor A. (Solicitor will know what an ATR is).

    Solicitor A is already paid, why is he photocopying deeds, just get him to send across the full file. Makes no difference to him.

    7K for a conveyance, unless its very convoluted and is a sale / purchase is daylight robbery


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