Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women

end of the road

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I've looked in Google, Bing, Yahoo. Even webcrawler, but I can't find anyone being stoned to death or gang raped and killed in an "honour killing" in Ireland...

we can be thankful for that. hopefully that will remain to be the case that no such acts are caried out in ireland.

Roger Hassenforder

end of the road wrote: »

we can be thankful for that. hopefully that will remain to be the case that no such acts are caried out in ireland.

so seeing as its ongoing and common in some countries, you might refrain from trying to compare the treatment of women in Ireland today?

Chuchote

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

But sure the Huffington Post wrote an article a year ago that said Muhammad was a feminist....

I guess marrying a 6 year old little girl and consumating said marriage when the little girl was 9 makes you a feminist in the warped minds of some of the Far-Left.

The Huffington Post is far left? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

end of the road

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

so seeing as its ongoing and common in some countries, you might refrain from trying to compare the treatment of women in Ireland today?

did i compare the treatment of women in ireland today? could you quote where if so?

Roger Hassenforder

end of the road wrote: »

did i compare the treatment of women in ireland today? could you quote where if so?

there you go:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104549260&postcount=147

you're welcome!

end of the road

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

there you go:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104549260&postcount=147

you're welcome!

wrong, that was about how we treated women up until not so long ago. within living memory. try again.

Roger Hassenforder

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, that was about how we treated women up until not so long ago. within living memory. try again.

You're trying to draw comparisons to the respective treatment of women. youre failing.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

i would suggest a woman being imprisoned, enslaved, beaten constantly, having their child stolen from them and possibly sold off or adopted, all because they dared to get pregnant out of wedlock would be not far off as horrifying as some of the stuff caried out in muslim countries.

Is this still happening in Ireland today?
You are comparing Past in Ireland with Present times of a strict Muslim ideology.
We as a nation have hopefully moved on and learnt from the mistakes of the past.
On the other hand, in these other countries they prefer to remain in the past and they make no apologies about how they treat women and impose punishments upon them for the crimes of men by stoning them to death or dragging them out into the middle of a road and cutting their heads off.
They do not believe in equality, if they did why are men only allowed to pray in the main hall of the mosque and why must women enter the mosque by a side door.

A Little Pony

Spider Web wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

i would suggest a woman being imprisoned, enslaved, beaten constantly, having their child stolen from them and possibly sold off or adopted, all because they dared to get pregnant out of wedlock would be not far off as horrifying as some of the stuff caried out in muslim countries.

I would too. It wasn't normal life for most women though - life was still usually a lot better for women like our mothers and grandmothers than life is for women in hardline islamist societies.

He must surely know this. It was a bad time for women, it's horrific for women in the Muslim world. They have barely any rights whatsoever. The equivalence is not valid.

A Little Pony

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it? I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

end of the road

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

You're trying to draw comparisons to the respective treatment of women. youre failing.

i'm not no . incorrect. i'm saying that up until not so long ago, in many ways we weren't much better then the middle east theocracies we are complaining about.

Benjamin Buttons

A Little Pony wrote: »

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it? I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

I've had a shufti through End of the road's post on this thread and for the life of me I couldn't find the one where he was defending Islamic societies. I wonder could you post it for all of us to see please.
Thanks in advance.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it?

i have never once defended islamic or any theocratic societies. theocratic societies do not subscribe to the values we do.
i have stated however that we cannot force our way of life on those societies as much as we would like to.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

i would agree if such was said. but nobody has said it's outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. it has never happened on here.

A Little Pony

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it? I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

I've had a shufti through End of the road's post on this thread and for the life of me I couldn't find the one where he was defending Islamic societies. I wonder could you post it for all of us to see please.
Thanks in advance.

By bringing up a false equivalence with Irish women in the early 20th century to women in the Muslim world in the 21st century. It beggars belief that anyone would even try to a comparison.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

By bringing up a false equivalence with Irish women in the early 20th century to women in the Muslim world in the 21st century. It beggars belief that anyone would even try to a comparison.

irish women faced those treatments i mentioned into the mid to early-late 20th century.

A Little Pony

end of the road wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

By bringing up a false equivalence with Irish women in the early 20th century to women in the Muslim world in the 21st century. It beggars belief that anyone would even try to a comparison.

irish women faced those treatments i mentioned into the mid to early-late 20th century.

But it's the 21st century, most of those issues if not all have vastly improved for women. Also it was never as bad even then as it is NOW for Muslim women in Muslim countries. Again this isn't a revolutionary thing I am saying.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

But it's the 21st century, most of those issues if not all have vastly improved for women. Also it was never as bad even then as it is NOW for Muslim women in Muslim countries. Again this isn't a revolutionary thing I am saying.

it's not that long ago since those things happened. it may not have been as bad as an islamic theocracy, as in people weren't stoned to death, but it wasn't that much better.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

it's not that long ago since those things happened. it may not have been as bad as an islamic theocracy, as in people weren't stoned to death, but it wasn't that much better.

And may it remain fresh in the minds of Irish society that it never happens again.
But its in Our past and not part of the learning and awareness fabric of Islamic culture.
So comparing our past with their present is just typical whataboutery.
But if you do want to compare, have you ever watched a woman being stoned to death, or being dragged out into the middle of the street to have her head cut off, surrounded only by men?

The_Kew_Tour

Would it be ok for Jews to just kill 6 million Germans now? Sure I mean just to even it up. That's what some of you are like in here when comparing Ireland then and now.

Benjamin Buttons

A Little Pony wrote: »

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it? I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

I've had a shufti through End of the road's post on this thread and for the life of me I couldn't find the one where he was defending Islamic societies. I wonder could you post it for all of us to see please.
Thanks in advance.

A Little Pony wrote: »

By bringing up a false equivalence with Irish women in the early 20th century to women in the Muslim world in the 21st century. It beggars belief that anyone would even try to a comparison.

So he has never actually posted anything that could be even loosely interpreted, in any credible way, as 'defending Islamic societies'.
The 'false equivalence' argument doesn't hold in relation to my query, for even if he did attempt to make an 'equivalence' between the inherent cruel misogyny of Islam with the deplorable treatment of some women by the Catholic Church in Ireland (all in the past, hopefully) he would still be seen as being highly critical of both and therefore defending neither.
So whether by accident or design, though I suspect the latter, you've been very unfair with that false accusation that he: ''always seems to defend Islamic societies''.

end of the road

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Would it be ok for Jews to just kill 6 million Germans now? Sure I mean just to even it up.

no, what's your point?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That's what some of you are like in here when comparing Ireland then and now.

no it's not. more imaginary nonsense and twisting things to mean something that they don't again.

pilly

Disgusting the way the women are treated, yada yada yada and yet your first comment is that the newsreader is lovely? Seriously?

The_Kew_Tour

end of the road wrote: »

no, what's your point?



no it's not. more imaginary nonsense and twisting things to mean something that they don't again.

Dearh is death.

Just cause it has War in front of it does not make it more sexy.

Your posts are medieval thinking. thankfully most people see through the bluffer you are.

suicide_circus

Look, there are no questions to answer re the treatment of women in the middle east and predominantly Islamic countries because the magdalene laundries, don't you get it? NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
Islam is the SAVIOUR of women. That is why we see millions of women from the west emigrating east every year to enjoy the fruits of Mohammed and leave the tyranny of western oppression behind.

Will I Am Not

pilly wrote: »

Disgusting the way the women are treated, yada yada yada and yet your first comment is that the newsreader is lovely? Seriously?

Calling a woman lovely... it's right up there with stoning and beheading them these days.

take everything

pilly wrote: »

Disgusting the way the women are treated, yada yada yada and yet your first comment is that the newsreader is lovely? Seriously?

Yes I fancy Emma Barnett.
This is not in any way disgusting or demeaning to her.

Women fancy men.
Men fancy women.
No disgusting treatment involved.

A Little Pony

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

End of the road why do you always seem to defend Islamic societies and people being critical of it? I don't know what is outrageous for people to say Muslim women have no rights in these countries. It's rather bizarre.

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

I've had a shufti through End of the road's post on this thread and for the life of me I couldn't find the one where he was defending Islamic societies. I wonder could you post it for all of us to see please.
Thanks in advance.

A Little Pony wrote: »

By bringing up a false equivalence with Irish women in the early 20th century to women in the Muslim world in the 21st century. It beggars belief that anyone would even try to a comparison.

So he has never actually posted anything that could be even loosely interpreted, in any credible way, as 'defending Islamic societies'.
The 'false equivalence' argument doesn't hold in relation to my query, for even if he did attempt to make an 'equivalence' between the inherent cruel misogyny of Islam with the deplorable treatment of some women by the Catholic Church in Ireland (all in the past, hopefully) he would still be seen as being highly critical of both and therefore defending neither.
So whether by accident or design, though I suspect the latter, you've been very unfair with that false accusation that he: ''always seems to defend Islamic societies''.

 Defense of Islam by bringing up Irelands past with women's rights issues. He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject. Always seems to find a way to dilute the issue.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

Defense of Islam by bringing up Irelands past with women's rights issues. He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject. Always seems to find a way to dilute the issue.

no, never happened.

Benjamin Buttons

A Little Pony wrote: »

 Defense of Islam by bringing up Irelands past with women's rights issues. He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject. Always seems to find a way to dilute the issue.

Attacking the Catholic Church and their former (I hope) grip on Irish governance and society is not defending Islam. Not quite sure that I get your logic, and you still haven't produced any post of his to substantiate your, by now, spurious claim that he's defending Islam.

Only guessing here, but I think his point is 'Get down off your high horse, it wasn't so long ago that some women in this country were treated like shít courtesy of the Catholic Church'
So your counter argument to a Magdalene Laundry survivor might be: Well you may have been treated cruelly - some might say enslaved - by the Catholic Church but at least you weren't stoned to death on a public street.
Fair enough I suppose and personally I'll take living in a western democracy over life in a theocracy or emirate every day of the week and every week of the year.
But you're starting to embarrass yourself now by sticking to this 'End of the road' defends Islam shtick, hell you're even moving the goalposts now with:
''He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject''
Again, let's see the posts where he ''defends Islam'', even on other threads.
I'm waiting.

Divelment

take everything wrote: »

Yes I fancy Emma Barnett.
This is not in any way disgusting or demeaning to her.

Women fancy men.
Men fancy women.
No disgusting treatment involved.

LMAO, Pilly just go back to your safe space! :D:D

A Little Pony

end of the road wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Defense of Islam by bringing up Irelands past with women's rights issues. He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject. Always seems to find a way to dilute the issue.

no, never happened.

Any time an attack happens by Islamic terrorists you go into some bizarre whataboutery mode which annoys others on the forum almost seeking the reaction, we saw it on the Barcelona thread.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

Any time an attack happens by Islamic terrorists you go into some bizarre whataboutery mode which annoys others on the forum almost seeking the reaction, we saw it on the Barcelona thread.

i don't go into some bizarre whataboutery mode. we saw nothing of the sort on the Barcelona thread as it never happened.
i do have to remind the hysterical and fundamentalist islam and muslim bashers that it isn't just fundamental islam that is an issue but fundamental anything. that most muslims do not support fundamental islamic attacks.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

[...]
i do have to remind the hysterical and fundamentalist islam and muslim bashers that it isn't just fundamental islam that is an issue but fundamental anything. that most muslims do not support fundamental islamic attacks.

Have you forgotten the thread title..
"Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women"..
This discussion is not about Islamic attacks, so stop trying to derail the thread further.

end of the road

K.Flyer wrote: »

Have you forgotten the thread title..
"Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women"..
This discussion is not about Islamic attacks, so stop trying to derail the thread further.

i'm aware of what the discussion is called and what it is about and i'm not de-railing anything. i had an allegation thrown at me and i debunked it. nothing more.
i'm in agreement the attitudes and treatment of people in islamic theocracies is completely wrong and there is no justification for it.

up for anything

take everything wrote: »

But the attitudes to women in North African/middle eastern/Islamic culture never ceases to utterly baffle me.

"The extraordinary scenes witnessed at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee, in which up to 50 people -- the bulk of them middle-aged and elderly men -- queued to shake Foley's hands, pat his arm, hug and kiss him and wipe the tears welling in the convicted sex offender's eyes, had never been witnessed in the Tralee courtroom." - This wasn't the Middle East and it wasn't one hundred years ago or even fifty. It was EIGHT years ago!

She has to text/email/see her rapist - USA 2016

Forced to share child custody with their rapists - USA now!

Child marriage in the USA -
2017

Child Marriage in the USA - 2017

The attitudes towards women throughout the world never ceases to utterly baffle me!

Spider Web

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

A Little Pony

Spider Web wrote: »

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

It absolutely is. Very weird.

Spider Web

I'm sure as heck not denying sexism/chauvinism/misogyny elsewhere and I'm certainly not ok with it, but how does it mitigate the situations where women are being treated worst of all and cannot speak out?

maninasia

In Malaysia the mosque calls to prayer early in the morning would be a giveaway.

The women who aren't wearing the head scarves are almost all ethnic Chinese.

Muslim women have strong pressure and are almost obligated to wear headscarves (certainly are obligated to wear it in many places and households and neighbourhoods ).

Malaysia feels okay now but it is at that edge where it could change for the worse.

The issue I have with Islam is they have all sorts of regulations and protocol for interacting with women and they divide the sexes for so many things even swimming pools . You can't even shake their hands in many countries it just creates a barrier and awkwardness.

up for anything

take everything wrote: »

.......
But the attitudes to women in North African/middle eastern/Islamic culture never ceases to utterly baffle me.
...........

What is wrong with these people.
Are women truly seen as either subhuman or property in these cultures.
........

Anyone with any insights into the psychology behind such cultures and these attitudes to women. It seems to be a huge problem (and largely untouched by feminism- a shocking indictment in itself).

Spider Web wrote: »

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

Spider Web wrote: »

I'm sure as heck not denying sexism/chauvinism/misogyny elsewhere and I'm certainly not ok with it, but how does it mitigate the situations where women are being treated worst of all and cannot speak out?

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

Divelment

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

Say what you want about Trump but Pence is a religiously inspired nutjob. He won't allow himself be in a room unaccompanied with another woman, that's up there with membership of the Iona Institute and other forms of serious religious indoctrination.

Spider Web

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks)

He said she's lovely - how is that making a mockery of criticism of treatment of women under islamist extremism? I know it's annoying when there is intense scrutiny of whether a woman is ****able (or not) if it's of no relevance, but this is just a very short little comment complimenting her. There is no indication of disrespecting women. I don't agree with going down the rabbit-hole of finding sexism in even the most innocuous of things and making a mockery of actual sexism, and also causing even more of a gender divide when we should be uniting

I see what you're saying otherwise - and don't disagree with much - but the below:

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

"Envying"? Come on, what an insult to women in repressed societies in the Middle East. Women in the west still won't be whipped or stoned or jailed for being raped. And they can still speak out. That is not an endorsement or downplaying of what you envision by the way, but have perspective and compare like with like.

Widdershins

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

The Tralee rape. Loudly condemned by the rest of Ireland and in no way normal for Ireland or Irish culture. Quite disturbing to compare them. Very naive.

DrPhilG

Widdershins wrote: »

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

India does have a strong Muslim population but in my experience it's the Hindus who are the most extremist fundamentalists at the minute.

patrickbrophy18

While Islamic beliefs are still behind when it comes to recognizing the fact that women are people too, I can also acknowledge the fact that most of the worlds key religious groups have used it as a means to repress women and still do.

I find it absolutely deplorable as it is a complete mockery of the concept. The inner feminist in me suspects that many of these religions have been tainted or tampered with by narcissistic misogynists who are incapable of thinking without their dicks.

The mere fact that they base this disparity of rights over an anatomical difference is just nonsensical not to mention offensive. I also see those who think less of people because of their gender as childish.

Back to the issue at hand, I don't think any particular religion is the problem but, rather those who are driving or leading it. In a not too dissimilar vain, the rampant child abuse by priests is another sickening example of the depravity and political meddling within the catholic faith.

As a result of these controversies, the religion in question looses all credibility and followers.

Widdershins

DrPhilG wrote: »

India does have a strong Muslim population but in my experience it's the Hindus who are the most extremist fundamentalists at the minute.

Your experience..?
I have to wonder if you've mixed the two up!
Ask a Hindu how they feel about it. Not only do they have ISIS causing trouble, they also have the likes of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan. And remember many Indians are atheist, something which is acceptable to many Hindu. At least they try to keep the troublesome Hindus in check and maintain secularism.

DrPhilG

Widdershins wrote: »

Your experience..?
I have to wonder if you've mixed the two up!

Nope. Both groups have their issues but since the Hindu government came in 3 years ago it is becoming much more difficult for non Hindus.

Christian charity Compassion have been running child sponsorship in the country for 40 years but have just had to cease operating because the government are blocking their donations and persecuting their staff. Leaving thousands of sponsored kids now cut off. Why? Because they are a Christian charity and any charity with a religious base other than Hindu has been blocked from receiving foreign funding regardless of the charitable work they do.

People in the North are being beaten and even killed over accusations of killing cows or eating beef.

up for anything

Divelment wrote: »

Say what you want about Trump but Pence is a religiously inspired nutjob. He won't allow himself be in a room unaccompanied with another woman, that's up there with membership of the Iona Institute and other forms of serious religious indoctrination.

Exactly and that explains why I suggested that women in the US might envy their Middle Eastern counterparts in not too many years if he gets in.

Spider Web wrote: »

He said she's lovely - how is that making a mockery of criticism of treatment of women under islamist extremism? I know it's annoying when there is intense scrutiny of whether a woman is ****able (or not) if it's of no relevance, but this is just a very short little comment complimenting her. There is no indication of disrespecting women. I don't agree with going down the rabbit-hole of finding sexism in even the most innocuous of things and making a mockery of actual sexism, and also causing even more of a gender divide when we should be uniting

I see what you're saying otherwise - and don't disagree with much - but the below:

"Envying"? Come on, what an insult to women in repressed societies in the Middle East. Women in the west still won't be whipped or stoned or jailed for being raped. And they can still speak out. That is not an endorsement or downplaying of what you envision by the way, but have perspective and compare like with like.

I can see the disrespect especially when coupled with the topic of his thread and it struck me that he thought it was funny which is why he put it in the post. He may as well have come into a room asking a mixed group for opinions while slapping a woman on the ass in passing.

As for using the word envying, I said:

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

I didn't say they are now or they would definitely be but that they may in years to come. On the heels of a fundamentalist Christian President, there surely would follow things like segregation, stoning, whipping, shaming, shunning etc. It's not so long ago that many of those things happened to women in the US. As another poster mentioned, he has spoken out about not being in the company of women without his wife. How insulting is that to half the people in his country. He's a bloody looper and history has illustrated time and time again what happens when deluded madmen take power, especially those with strong and extreme religious convictions.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/jia-tolentino/mike-pences-marriage-and-the-beliefs-that-keep-women-from-power

Widdershins wrote: »

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

The Tralee rape. Loudly condemned by the rest of Ireland and in no way normal for Ireland or Irish culture. Quite disturbing to compare them. Very naive.

The OP left out India in his post. I wondered why. It seemed to me that he was thinking a certain way with no real clue about the religion or cultures he was looking for opinions on. I have no knowledge or particular stance on the troubles in India being "a Hindu thing". He also left out Indonesia and other African countries that have Muslim majorities.

I am not naive and I wasn't comparing the Tralee case with the plight of women in the Middle East. Why would you think that? I was saying that the attitudes towards women all over the world, even the so called civilised 'West' baffles me. There's Japan (not in the "West" obviously) - women only carriages on trains so that young girls and women are safe from being groped by random and multiple men - WTF! I've seen where the powers that be are wondering should trains in Britain adopt them as well. What about a certain Irish judge who gives light or suspended sentences to rapists/sexual assaulters along with ordering them to pay money to their victims, thereby adding insult to injury?

Widdershins

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nope. Both groups have their issues but since the Hindu government came in 3 years ago it is becoming much more difficult for non Hindus.

Christian charity Compassion have been running child sponsorship in the country for 40 years but have just had to cease operating because the government are blocking their donations and persecuting their staff. Leaving thousands of sponsored kids now cut off. Why? Because they are a Christian charity and any charity with a religious base other than Hindu has been blocked from receiving foreign funding regardless of the charitable work they do.

People in the North are being beaten and even killed over accusations of killing cows or eating beef.

That's not new. I'm just not sure how they are comparable to the Islamists. If it's a 'but they have their own homegrown bastards' point then of course, it's true. Still the lesser of two evils in a country that does strive for secularism.

suicide_circus

As a great man once said, looking at organised religions it becomes clear that not only are they man-made but indeed made by men.