"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

awec

Billy86 wrote: »

Rhaegar was a good deal older I believe yeah. After Robert Barratheon and co took Kings Landing and defeated the Targaryens all the children were killed in order to clear any claim they had to the throne via blood links - which is why Dany and Viserys were moved away and hidden in Essos through their childhoods and Dany's long march back to Westeros. Jon would have also been killed regardless of whether had he been born from rape or love, and regardless of anything Lyanna or Ned did or said... so Ned pretended Jon was his bastard son from a prostitute to keep it secret, and never told a soul.

Presumably Howland Reed knows the story.

awec

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jamie and Cersi must be old enough too if Jamie killed the mad king (or Jamie must of been very young when he done it ??)

The mad king was killed ~22 years ago from where we currently are in the story. Jamie killed the mad king when he was ~16.

KKkitty

awec wrote: »

Presumably Howland Reed knows the story.

He was there at the Tower of Joy so he must know?

Billy86

awec wrote: »

Presumably Howland Reed knows the story.

Well this is true, but he seems a bit of a conveniently forgotten/almost non-existent character on the show so kind of easy to just forget about to an extent. As is if forced on an answer they could just claim he got an arrow in the neck on the way back from the Tower of Joy.

FortuneChip

Lads,
Gendry's gone missing again...

awec

Billy86 wrote: »

Well this is true, but he seems a bit of a conveniently forgotten/almost non-existent character on the show so kind of easy to just forget about to an extent. As is if forced on an answer they could just claim he got an arrow in the neck on the way back from the Tower of Joy.

He isn't in the books either. He has just as much plot and air time in the show as he has in the books.

Daith

KKkitty wrote: »

He was there at the Tower of Joy so he must know?

He knows Ned came out of the tower with a baby. We don't know if he knew it was Lyanna's though.

KKkitty

FortuneChip wrote: »

Lads,
Gendry's gone missing again...

He's just resting after his run

KKkitty

Daith wrote: »

He knows Ned came out of the tower with a baby. We don't know if he knew it was Lyanna's though.

I'm sure he had a feeling the baby wasn't really Ned's though.

awec

Daith wrote: »

He knows Ned came out of the tower with a baby. We don't know if he knew it was Lyanna's though.

He would surely know it was Lyanna's and he'd surely know it was Rhaegars.

Screaming woman locked in a tower and Ned emerging with a baby, it's too obvious. And Lyanna Stark has been "kidnapped" and guarded by the Targaryen's, nobody else is going to be able to touch her.

He'd have known R+L=J.

connemara man

awec wrote: »

He would surely know it was Lyanna's and he'd surely know it was Rhaegars.

Screaming woman locked in a tower and Ned emerging with a baby, it's too obvious. And Lyanna Stark has been "kidnapped" and guarded by the Targaryen's, nobody else is going to be able to touch her.

He'd have known R+L=J.

Need to change that to R+L=A

awec

connemara man wrote: »

Need to change that to R+L=A

He most likely wouldn't have known that. In Reed's eyes it was the bastard child of R+L.

I suspect that Reed and Ned are the two that knew who Jon's parents were, but only Ned knew he was legitimate.

wandatowell

Well that was great.

wandatowell

Even though it wasn't specifically shown surely both Beric Tormund are dead?

PTH2009

Why does the night king want the 7 kingdoms ???

Is he some mad bastard that loves death ???

sabat

wandatowell wrote: »

Even though it wasn't specifically show surely both Beric Tormund are dead?

I doubt they would end the brothers without banners storyline like that.

Loafing Oaf

wandatowell wrote: »

Even though it wasn't specifically show surely both Beric Tormund are dead?

I'm with this guy:

golfball37 wrote: »

After Davos resurfaced post blackwater a few years back I assume they're alive until we see them die. Stannis upset that belief however but I think it's a sound assumption

KKkitty

What was with the look Tyrion gave when he saw Jon/Aegon go into Dany's room?

J. Marston

Pretty sure Beric and Tormund outran the portion of the wall that went down.

NinjaTruncs

wandatowell wrote: »

Even though it wasn't specifically show surely both Beric Tormund are dead?

sabat wrote: »

I doubt they would end the brothers without banners storyline like that.

I don't think they are dead, if you watch how the wall collapses, after they both leap onto a bit of the wall it's only one side of the wall that continues to collapse, the side out to sea, the inland side seems to stay intact from the point when you see them both jump to safety.

Loafing Oaf

klose wrote: »

I feel slightly stupid when I believed cerseis lie about joining forces only to pull the what is now obvious rug from under us,

I totally bought it too. If I was round her court I'm sure I'd have 'bought it' long ago.:P

wandatowell

PTH2009 wrote: »

Why does the night king want the 7 kingdoms ???

Is he some mad bastard that loves death ???

Oh ya, I was kinda hoping that we might get a look into the story behind him or even just to delve into it slightly.

I think he's just on some revenge mission over something.

thomond2006

Didn't Aegon the Conqueror have two sisters as well? Nice little nod to that.

Loafing Oaf

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Great episode.
Everything is moving very quickly now , can't wait for next season things are set up perfectly, seeing the supposedly impregnable wall crumbling so easily was frightening scene and it was brilliantly done.

Maybe too quickly, in a way it's kind of hard to see how they will spin 8 full episodes or whatever it is out of the remaining story. Surely things should be coming to a head within a couple of hours of screen time with the dead through the wall.

KKkitty

I'd say Qyburn was wet with excitement looking at the wight.

GavRedKing

Well that was bloody intense. I assumed cersei was going to have Jamie killed when she didnt kill Tyrion. He must be going north now to help Dany and Jon.

Wall scene could have been longer but I did enjoy it.

I cant tell if Tyrion was disappointed with Jon and Dany for gettng it on or dkes he have a different motive.

The end of Littlefinger was played out very well I felt. A fitting end for his character.

Dravokivich

PTH2009 wrote: »

Why does the night king want the 7 kingdoms ???

Is he some mad bastard that loves death ???

I was under the impression The Children of the Forest created him to destroy men?

alchemist33

KKkitty wrote: »

What was with the look Tyrion gave when he saw Jon/Aegon go into Dany's room?

Probably thinking they're mixing business with pleasure and its sure to end badly. Which it will.

challengemaster

Bran: I CAN SEE EVERYTHING

Meanwhile: Cersai betrayal, NK has a dragon

Bran: WE MUST TELL JON HIS REAL NAME

Dravokivich wrote: »

I was under the impression The Children of the Forest created him to destroy men?

If you go back to that episode with Bran and the Three Eyed Raven and Children of the forest... yes, they did.

Something along the lines of
"You... you created him, why?"
"To protect us, from you (man)"

Evade

challengemaster wrote: »

Bran: I CAN SEE EVERYTHING

Meanwhile: Cersai betrayal, NK has a dragon

Bran: WE MUST TELL JON HIS REAL NAME

I think Bran's line should be "I can see anything" he clearly has to focus on a specific event or place and time or he would already have known John wasn't a bastard.

Dravokivich

Evade wrote: »

I think Bran's line should be "I can see anything" he clearly has to focus on a specific event or place and time or he would already have known John wasn't a bastard.

Yeah, but being able to see everything, he can be distracted by events he considers more important than others. Even though he tried to express earlier in the season that overall they are insignificant to him.

Richard Hillman

In reckon the Tyrion disappointment is due to the fact that him and Cersei have mildly buried the hatchet over Joffrey and that he is to become an uncle again, with the future of Lannister family being revived.

He already expressed sorrow over seeing the Lannister army being destroyed in battle. Is he slowly returning to Team Lannister?

Mousewar

Bran: Oh great Jon, you're back. I have something important to tell you...

Jon:

DeadHand

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

Not sure what to make of Tyrion's look of concern after he watched Jon go into his aunt's chambers. I presume he doesn't know who Jon really is yet.

I think it's because such a union could spell the end for the Lannisters.

I've had this gnawing feeling all season that Tyrion has more residual loyalty for his family than is prudent for him to let on. He looks despondent at the battle of Blackwater Rush to see Lannister forces massacred and is the most enthusiastic advocate for a truce- just as things start to go against the Lannisters.

He was firmly on team Lannister in the earlier seasons until basically being forced to betray them in self defense when Tywin attempted to have him killed.

knucklehead6

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but being able to see everything, he can be distracted by events he considers more important than others. Even though he tried to express earlier in the season that overall they are insignificant to him.

Kinda like Wikipedia. You start looking for information about a particular type of building material, and end up looking up the heat of the surface of the sun 5 hours later.

Unshelved

If the Wights can't swim then how the hell did they get the chains on the dragon last week?

Was anyone else holding their breath in those five seconds before the Wight burst out of the box? Fantastic bit of suspense.

Brilliant episode. Just brilliant. Now what am I going to watch?

Lemlin

Brilliant episode. I enjoyed last week's but on a second watch it didn't fare out great.

Looking forward to watching this one again.

I wouldn't think Beric or Tormund are dead. They would have been shown on screen falling or being crushed.

My expectation is that we won't see any more GoT for about 15 months now. I have a feeling they'll aim to start showing the episodes in November next year with the finale being shown on or around Christmas Day.

Dravokivich

Unshelved wrote: »

If the Wights can't swim then how the hell did they get the chains on the dragon last week?

Was anyone else holding their breath in those five seconds before the Wight burst out of the box? Fantastic bit of suspense.

Brilliant episode. Just brilliant. Now what am I going to watch?

No reason why they couldn't walk under the water. In the climax to Ep 6, we saw one fall under the ice, but 2 try to pull Jon down. Presumably the second had fallen in the day before.

Dial Hard

Unshelved wrote: »

Was anyone else holding their breath in those five seconds before the Wight burst out of the box? Fantastic bit of suspense.

I was like "Fcuk, it's totally dead".

Unshelved wrote: »

Brilliant episode. Just brilliant. Now what am I going to watch?

Britannia and Electric Dreams for me. That should fill, oooh, I reckon about .000001% of the gaping Thrones-shaped hole in my life.

JamboMac

Really wandering what bran warged, thought it was the crows, but not sure.

Washout

wandatowell wrote: »

Oh ya, I was kinda hoping that we might get a look into the story behind him or even just to delve into it slightly.

I think he's just on some revenge mission over something.

Isn't it just a case of that his only mission is to ensure the annihilation of all humans as per the reason of his creation. So he is fulfilling his purpose of his existence

KKkitty

Anyone going to miss Littlefinger? I won't anyway. He got what he deserved. When Bran said what he said Littlefinger knew it was curtains for him.

Billy86

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In reckon the Tyrion disappointment is due to the fact that him and Cersei have mildly buried the hatchet over Joffrey and that he is to become an uncle again, with the future of Lannister family being revived.

He already expressed sorrow over seeing the Lannister army being destroyed in battle. Is he slowly returning to Team Lannister?

If he is, it's only for a twist to turn him back - the character is far too smart to not be aware that if they did defeat Danaerys, Snow & Co., Cersei would have his head taken off the same night the war was won.

omerin

KKkitty wrote: »

Anyone going to miss Littlefinger? I won't anyway. He got what he deserved. When Bran said what he said Littlefinger knew it was curtains for him.

I think we'll see "him" again next season in KL

Brock Turnpike

Washout wrote: »

Isn't it just a case of that his only mission is to ensure the annihilation of all humans as per the reason of his creation. So he is fulfilling his purpose of his existence

There's one thing nagging at me. I'll spoiler it as it's purely my own theory/thoughts...

The reveal that Melissandre is actually really old has never really been followed up. Is it possible she has a part to play in this?

Loved it when The Hound squared up to the Mountain. "You know what's coming for you. You've always known."

Thought Jamie was a goner for certain. The look of sorrow in his eyes

flazio

Does this mean Arya gets the Castle with the hole?

irishfeen

Jesus that was spectacular! This show is amazing, it will be up there with the Sopranos and Breaking Bad in changing television forever.

KKkitty

omerin wrote: »

I think we'll see "him" again next season in KL

So many saw him being killed though. How could Arya pull that ruse off?

Evade

flazio wrote: »

Does this mean Arya gets the Castle with the hole?

If Jon Arryn had no siblings or none with living heirs wouldn't it go to Edmure Tully as Lysa's oldest living male relative?

Wouldn't that mean Edmure controls the Vale, the Twins, and Riverrun?

flazio

KKkitty wrote: »

So many saw him being killed though. How could Arya pull that ruse off?

Which is why I think she'll go for the maid who walked in on Cersei and Jamie earlier in the series.

Delighted to see Little Finger get a needle up his hole. (shame it was his air hole)
Was anyone else worried that Cersei was going to torch the dragon pits? It crossed my mind when they first arrived.