"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

Billy86

By the way when The Hound said to The Zombie Mountain something along the liens of "you know he's coming for you, you've always known he's coming for you" who was he referring to? God, given The Hound's apparent new calling... or a character I've completely forgotten about?

Really thought we might be getting a Clegane Bowl out of nowhere when they were walking up with Bronn and co.

Dial Hard

flazio wrote: »

Does this mean Arya gets the Castle with the hole?

Evade wrote: »

If Jon Arryn had no siblings or none with living heirs wouldn't it go to Edmure Tully as Lysa's oldest living male relative?

Wouldn't that mean Edmure controls the Vale, the Twins, and Riverrun?

No, Robert Arryn is the Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger was just the Lord Protector as Robert is still underage.

Riskymove

Evade wrote: »

If Jon Arryn had no siblings or none with living heirs wouldn't it go to Edmure Tully as Lysa's oldest living male relative?

Wouldn't that mean Edmure controls the Vale, the Twins, and Riverrun?

Is Robin not still around?

ED E

Billy86 wrote: »

By the way when The Hound said to The Zombie Mountain something along the liens of "you know he's coming for you, you've always known he's coming for you" who was he referring to? God, given The Hound's apparent new calling... or a character I've completely forgotten about?

"Who's coming for you brother", not "he's".

Evade

Dial Hard wrote: »

No, Robert Arryn is the Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger was just the Lord Protector as Robert is still underage.

You're right. It's been so long since we've seen him I was sure he was dead, but he isn't.

J. Marston

flazio wrote: »

Does this mean Arya gets the Castle with the hole?

Evade wrote: »

If Jon Arryn had no siblings or none with living heirs wouldn't it go to Edmure Tully as Lysa's oldest living male relative?

Wouldn't that mean Edmure controls the Vale, the Twins, and Riverrun?

Robin Arryn is Lord of the Vale. Littlefinger was Lord Protector of the Vale.

Yohn Royce will probably take over that role now.

Edit: Yep, what Dial Hard said!

Loafing Oaf

Riskymove wrote: »

Is Robin not still around?

Yohn Royce finally snapped and chucked him through the moon door.:P

flazio

Evade wrote: »

You're right. It's been so long since we've seen him I was sure he was dead, but he isn't.

Isn't that the kid we first met suckling his mother and useless at archery?

A Primal Nut

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

Great episode.

When I saw Bran sitting behind Stanza in the Great Hall I knew Little Finger was finally about to get his comupence

I was sure Jamie was done, thought Cersie's nod was a "go ahead a kill my brother" nod rather than a "let him go" one.

Not sure what to make of Tyrion's look of concern after he watched Jon go into his aunt's chambers. I presume he doesn't know who Jon really is yet and I doubt it was one of jealousy (although no doubt he wouldn't mind getting to know Dani better).

I think he is concerned that his influence might wane, with Jon taking over as Dani's lead advisor, so probably a bit sad about that. Also if they get together it gives up the possibility of Dani making a strategic marriage later.

Or maybe just sad that someone is getting some but not him.:)

Billy86

ED E wrote: »

"Who's coming for you brother", not "he's".

Ah yes that was it, was still digesting the morning coffee at that stage.

Evade

flazio wrote: »

Isn't that the kid we first met suckling his mother and useless at archery?

That's him.

MadYaker

Good episode! I was delighted to finally see the end of littlefinger. Sansa always understood that he was totally self serving.

Hard to know what effect the fact that Dany and Jon being aunt and nephew will have. The throne may be Jons but I don't think he wants it. I think they'll marry and Dany will be queen and he'll serve as commander of her armies or whatever. Kind of like Jamie and Cersei only they'll be a legitimate couple? I don't think the fact that are related will matter considering it was standard practice in that family.

I thought it felt odd seeing the night king riding the dragon too. The blue fire was cool though.

Washout

What is Jamie's Fake hand made of....wonder if his handicap will actually play a crucial role if it is Valarian Steal. Or Am I reading too much into the scene where is leaving KL and has a long look at his hand.

Dravokivich

MadYaker wrote: »

Good episode! I was delighted to finally see the end of littlefinger. Sansa always understood that he was totally self serving.

Hard to know what effect the fact that Dany and Jon being aunt and nephew will have. The throne may be Jons but I don't think he wants it. I think they'll marry and Dany will be queen and he'll serve as commander of her armies or whatever. Kind of like Jamie and Cersei only they'll be a legitimate couple? I don't think the fact that are related will matter considering it was standard practice in that family.

I thought it felt odd seeing the night king riding the dragon too. The blue fire was cool though.

I'd be guessing...

Once Jon know's he's Aegon, he wouldn't be keen on getting on with Dany any further and Tyrion becomes the only one who knew they were together, while others only suspected there may be such intentions.

He didn't want to be king of the north, he's not going to want the Iron throne.
But who's going to rule Winterfell will be an interesting one. Would Stansa carry the alliance with Dany?

Washout wrote: »

What is Jamie's Fake hand made of....wonder if his handicap will actually play a crucial role if it is Valarian Steal. Or Am I reading too much into the scene where is leaving KL and has a long look at his hand.

I thought it had been mentioned that it was gold. Typical of Lannister ego really.

Loafing Oaf

Unshelved wrote: »

Was anyone else holding their breath in those five seconds before the Wight burst out of the box? Fantastic bit of suspense.

Did that guy seem a lot more threatening than most of the other shuffling wight's we've seen? Maybe they lucked out and grabbed the Conor McGregor of the undead?:P

A Primal Nut

MadYaker wrote: »

Good episode! I was delighted to finally see the end of littlefinger. Sansa always understood that he was totally self serving.

Hard to know what effect the fact that Dany and Jon being aunt and nephew will have. The throne may be Jons but I don't think he wants it. I think they'll marry and Dany will be queen and he'll serve as commander of her armies or whatever. Kind of like Jamie and Cersei only they'll be a legitimate couple? I don't think the fact that are related will matter considering it was standard practice in that family.

I thought it felt odd seeing the night king riding the dragon too. The blue fire was cool though.

Danaerys won't like that Jon has a better claim to the throne than her. She may get paranoid and try to kill him. I could see the final battle being between those two.

The two of them just staying together afterwards seems a bit too neat.

A Primal Nut

JamboMac wrote: »

If Jon isn't neds bastard, then can he still be king of the north? Does Sansa become de facto queen of the north?

He's still a Stark via his mother, and now a trueborn Stark instead of a bastard, so he has a better claim. Anyway he became king of the north not by birthright, but by being chosen because of his character and successes on the battlefield. I don't think expect that to change although given how unpopular the Mad King was, it could work against him to some extent.

Vincent Vega

Creeping Death wrote: »

Absolutely hated seeing the Night King riding Viserion, just seemed too cheesy to me.

Yes, yes, suspend your disbelief, it's all fantasy, blah blah blah...don't care, didn't like it.

golfball37 wrote: »

Night king on the dragon looked a bit 60s horror b movie but that's just a personal thing.

Certain things about that scene just felt off.

The choice to include a close up fixed camera shot cut into the middle of the sequence with him just bobbing up and down has to be one of the stranger choices of the series so far.

A Primal Nut

Great episode.

Can't believe nobody mentioned Ser Friendzone's jealous looks at Jon. Cracked me up. Poor Jorah.

The scene where Sansa turned on Littlefinger and then his death was one of my favorite moments of the entire show so far,

Finally getting the official reveal of Jon's heritage was great, but a bit disappointed Jon himself still didn't find out.

If Bran tells him everything he knows, Jon finding out about his heritage will be overshadowed by the immediate danger of the Ice Dragon and no more wall.

The ending was incredible.

eeloe

When Cersi said that there's "one more on the way" and holds her stomach, the very next line moves on to Euron Greyjoy....marrying the queen.


Wouldn't it be an absolute hoot if Euron was the father of her child and not Jamie?

gpstracker

I liked that the Night King was riding the dragon, before we saw that I was thinking it'd be handy enough for him to fly over the wall, kill a good few and raise an undead army that side, then attack the wall from both sides. Even Essos wouldn't have been safe if the series was not to finish next turn out. When it came down to it the auld wall was brittle enough. Not sure the livings plan of sailing off to an island someplace has much credence now with the undead air force in play.

MisterAnarchy

gpstracker wrote: »

When it came down to it the auld wall was brittle enough.

The wall is supposed to be 700 feet tall (213 meters) and an average of 300 feet in width (91 meters).
What we saw at the end of that episode was a wall about 700 feet tall and about 30 feet wide .:rolleyes:

pah

It's a pity they had the Aegon reveal like that. We all suspected of course and when Gilly dropped it a couple of episodes ago it was glossed over by Sam too quickly.

IMO it would have been much better to have Sam arrive at Winterfell earlier and have Bran tell him about L+R=J only for Gilly to drop the bomb a little later. It would have been more effective I reckon.

Overall great Ep, wasn't sure how sansa/arya would play out. Was all the animosity from the last few eps purely for littlefingers benefit as part of their ploy? even the private scenes.

pah

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The wall is supposed to be 700 feet tall (213 meters) and an average of 300 feet in width (91 meters).
What we saw at the end of that episode was a wall about 700 feet tall and about 30 feet wide .:rolleyes:

If I was going to try and knock a wall I'd start at one end or the other rather than in the middle. Perhaps it tapers near the end at Eastwatch compared to Castleblack?

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but being able to see everything, he can be distracted by events he considers more important than others. Even though he tried to express earlier in the season that overall they are insignificant to him.

Not quite it seems. Bran seemed unaware of Rhaegar's annullment, since he referred to 'Sand'. i.e. a b*st*rd in Dorne, until Sam Tarly told him about it.

MisterAnarchy

pah wrote: »

If I was going to try and knock a wall I'd start at one end or the other rather than in the middle. Perhaps it tapers near the end at Eastwatch compared to Castleblack?

Yes you are probably correct ,it certainly seems very narrow at Eastwatch .
Still though it seemed to collapse pretty easily ,a few blasts from the dragon and it came down in minutes.

I was sad to see Littlefingers go , he was an excellent character who the writers made a complete mess of this series.
He met his end in what was, in effect, nothing more than a meaningless 'aside' and as a 'sop to fandom who might be wanting a 'shocking death' but not of anyone they actually like.

A Primal Nut

pah wrote: »

It's a pity they had the Aegon reveal like that. We all suspected of course and when Gilly dropped it a couple of episodes ago it was glossed over by Sam too quickly.

IMO it would have been much better to have Sam arrive at Winterfell earlier and have Bran tell him about L+R=J only for Gilly to drop the bomb a little later. It would have been more effective I reckon.

Overall great Ep, wasn't sure how sansa/arya would play out. Was all the animosity from the last few eps purely for littlefingers benefit as part of their ploy? even the private scenes.

I think there was animosity between Sansa and Arya but clearly Sansa talked to Bran in between the two scenes and he told her about Littlefinger holding a knife to Ned's throat, and the knife belonging to him being used in the attempt to kill Bran, both of which came up in the inquest, and Sansa finally figured out ("I'm a slow learner") that it was Littlefinger who was trying to turn Arya and Sansa against each other.

Sparko

Washout wrote: »

What is Jamie's Fake hand made of....wonder if his handicap will actually play a crucial role if it is Valarian Steal. Or Am I reading too much into the scene where is leaving KL and has a long look at his hand.

He was looking at the snow that had just started falling I think.

Brock Turnpike

I honestly think people must play with their phones during episodes. Some of the questions being asked...

Brock Turnpike

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

leggo

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

One of those decisions that looks foolish in hindsight, but then how were they to know they'd even need a dragon in that venture? Then how were they to know the NK had the capability of taking one down? How were they to know before they left that he could turn it if he did (considering the purpose of the bear scene was to establish "Oh yeah, he can turn big animals too..." to the characters)? Did the Night's King even know the blue dragon fire could take down the wall or was it just a hit-and-hope that worked?

It's a cock-up on the characters' part, no doubt, but it's one I can easily accept.

MisterAnarchy

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

So the NK needed a dragon to take the wall down, which he only got as a result of the "Dragonstone Brains Trust" deciding to go north to capture a wight. They effectively opened the door to him. He's have been stood looking at the wall for years if they'd just left him.

That would seem to be the case,he and his army would be stranded only for Tyrion and Jon Snows idiotic ideas.
Jon Snow doesn't have much between the ears .
He is all heart no brain I'm afraid as he demonstrated in the Battle of the Bastards and on the Frozen Lake .

You'd think that the Dragonstone Brains Trust would have consulted a maester or two to find out if the army of the dead and Night King can pass the pass voluntarily.
Maybe Bran would pipe up instead of moping around and keeping his mouth shut .He sees everything but doesn't seem to do anything about it .
Bran provides knowledge to decide bits of the plot, but not the knowledge that would rewrite other bits, if the participants had it.
He seemed to know Little Finger's past in detail, but not Jon's. And he's provided no future guidance on the wisdom of trusting Cersei, or the trip north that lost the dragon. No one has asked the obvious questions - should we trust Cersei, or what will happen if we go north?
You will lose a dragon , might have put them all off. The Night King seems much better at this - he seems to have known they would come, dragons would arrive, and he could get one, and use it to move south.

The whole capture a wight plot has to be the worst idea the writers ever came up with.
They lost a dragon to the Night King ,they didn't convince Cersei to aid them ,in fact she did what the dog on the street knew she would do ,betray them.
They wasted a couple of months travelling to the wall and back ,time they could have used to wipe out Cersei and then turn their attentions to the North.

I mean the army of the dead have been travelling towards the wall for the last 7 series ,whats the rush with Jon Snow now ?

johnny_ultimate

Y'know, for all the revelations this week, my favourite scene by far was the snow falling on King's Landing. Game of Thrones is so plot-heavy there's rarely time for moments of contemplation or atmospheric storytelling. It may only be 30 seconds, but I found that a more ominous (and poetic!) sequence than the big Wall collapse at the end.

Essien

He's Aegon Targaryan,
He's never been a bastard,
He's the heir to the iron throne,
And he's...
Oh my god he's ****ing his aunt!!

arayess

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

arayess

qyburn has a plan. i just know it

JaMarcusHustle

What was the Night King's plan to breach the wall had they not lucked out and ended up with a dragon?

Also, I thought the blue flame was very cheesy

Dyr

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

What was the Night King's plan to breach the wall had they not lucked out and ended up with a dragon?

Also, I thought the blue flame was very cheesy

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

mikefoxo

re Tyrion, didn't he talk to Dany about succession, and that she couldn't have children?

False Prophet

arayess wrote: »

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

Agree, littlefinger shouldnt have been played that easily. Guess he regrets saving john snow life now

Varys pointless this season, hoping that he becomes relevant next season , surely he will have contacts with the iron bank to discover cersei plan

Topbike77

I think when the hound said to the mountain "You know whats coming for you" he was talking about Arya, he was on her list.

False Prophet

Bambi wrote: »

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

Should try watching GOT without a phone:P

Gold was prioritised over food by Jamie/cersei , gold was not destroyed by the dragon.

Euron was not going of the cuff, all part of Cersei plan to fool the other side which she explained later (collect her new army from the mainland)

PressRun

Action packed to say the least.
Glad Jamie finally grew a spine and glad the Stark sisters stuck together, and Bran too. It was time for Littlefinger to go. He'd outstayed his welcome and I don't think he offered much to the story going forward.
The relationship between Jon and Daenerys is surely going to be awkward once Sam and Bran tell him the truth? He's the heir to the throne that she believes she's entitled to. I've never really believed Daenerys will ever sit on the throne, but now I'm thinking Jon might not either? It might be the child the conceive from their weird incest?
Didn't know what Tyrion's longing look was supposed to be about.

SimonTemplar

I loved Arya's smirk after Sansa addressed Littlefinger, followed by "My sister asked you a question" during his stunned silence.

A lot of poetic justice in Littlefinger's demise: Executed by the Stark sisters. The master manipulator having his throat cut unable to speak anymore.

I liked that scene a lot. Glad to see the end of that character too who has outlived his usefulness to the story since the battle of the bastards.

duffman13

Bambi wrote: »

It was always going to be an ice/calor gas dragon

What's the story with Cersei going on about the highgarden gold? I though they lost it?

Also Euron going deciding off the cuff to put on a show by going "f**k that for a game of cowboys Im off" seems a bit...contrived.

They didn't lose the gold, the Tarlys clearly told Jaime and Bronn it was through the gates of KL before Danys attack. Euron didn't decide off the cuff to leave, it was a premeditated plan to make Cersei look weaker and give them time to get the Golden Company from Essos. Cersei was always going go agree to the truce as it was the only way she wasn't going to be annihilated.

Penn

Fantastic episode. Really loved all the little moments between characters who've either never met or haven't seen each other in a long time. Only a few minor complaints:

- Sam and Gilly got into Winterfell (and Sam got up to Bran's room) surprisingly easy considering how hard it was for Arya to get in a few episodes before.
- Theon's fight and how he got his men back on side was a bit cheesy
- Really really wish we'd have seen Jon finding out the truth this season, as the last moment before seeing The Wall come down, rather than just Bran and Sam (possibly Tyrion too, I wasn't sure if that's why he was looking on them weirdly. I'm guessing Bran sent a raven and Tyrion read it)
- And speaking of The Wall, didn't Benjen say there was magic built into The Wall? Is that just gone now that the actual Wall has come down? If so, it seems like the "magic" was simply "a big wall"

But overall very happy with that. Cersei stole the show, and the reveal of her plan (including Euron going to get the Golden Company) was really well done. Her scenes with Tyrion and Jaime were great. And I'm really glad the Arya V Sansa stuff from last week was quite quickly laid to rest.

SimonTemplar

I am sick of Theon and Yara. I thought they were going to be disposed of with those Sand Snake Sisters at the beginning of the season but unfortunately not.

I couldn't care less of Theon fully redeems himself and ends up leading the Ironborn or if he gets killed. The Starks, Lannisters, and Daenerys are far more interesting.

Brock Turnpike

Ronan14 wrote: »

I think when the hound said to the mountain "You know whats coming for you" he was talking about Arya, he was on her list.

I took it to mean the Hound is going to kill him. Or there is some weird religious **** going on between the Cleganes that they've never mentioned before.

Degag

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I took it to mean the Hound is going to kill him. Or there is some weird religious **** going on between the Cleganes that they've never mentioned before.

Yeah, i took it as being the Hound also. Don't see it being Arya as the Hound said "you've always known" (or words to that effect) Doubt Mountain knows who Arya is.

arayess

arayess wrote: »

i think littlefinger deserved a better ending. All characters who were a pair are coming together for the finale.
I thought littlefinger and varys would have a final showdown.

varys has gone a bit stale too

I think thats been one of the disappointments this season. He appears to have been shunted into the background quite a bit with little much happening with him.