"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

False Prophet

Venom wrote: »

But without the zombie it would seem really off from him to just freak out and scutter off.

If Cersi's plan all along was to pick up the Golden Legion Merc's, it would of made much more sense to have the ships already in route to pick them up, thus avoiding running into some Dragons along the way with a bonus option of maybe even having the new army there before the talks to take out her enemies!

he could use the dragons and scutter off or if no dragons the unsullied and horsesboyos. its not rocket science to find a reason and he is will able to play act.

If he wasnt there then they would be wondering where he was and would "investigate" or show concern to what he is up to instead

rtron

Unshelved wrote: »

If the Wights can't swim then how the hell did they get the chains on the dragon last week?

I fill that gap in by imagining there are hooks at the ends of the chains and they fished him out.

expectationlost

does george rr martin have something to tell us about him and his aunt?

A Primal Nut

I think I'll have to read the books so I can read the next one when it's released and find out how the Night King really got a dragon. I'm pretty sure the story will be different.

A Primal Nut

Drumpot wrote: »

Should bran not know that the NK has a dragon who has Destroyed the wall in seconds? If so, I presume he would be telling everybody fairly lively!

Yeah, he'll tell Jon about his parentage and about the NK/Dragon/Wall at the same time. Jon won't have time to dwell on the whole "heir to the Iron Throne" thing.

MisterAnarchy

Drumpot wrote: »

Should bran not know that the NK has a dragon who has Destroyed the wall in seconds? If so, I presume he would be telling everybody fairly lively!

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Pugzilla

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .

Not to mind the fact the Night King is concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

The Wall was partly created with magic by the Children of the Forest.
Dragons are magic as well.

Remember the Warlock in Qarth who wanted to imprison Daenarys and the three dragons in the House of the Undying.

Cantona's Collars

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

In fairness a wight with bits chopped off can function pretty OK.One bit of the attack on the wall also showed a hole near the bottom of the wall,I was thinking the same as you about why he was attacking the top third until I saw that hole plus there were tunnels etc which weakened the whole structure.

Turtwig

The twin towers collapsed even though the planes struck the upper floors. The load for the floors below was no longer evenly distributed so the buildings collapsed downwards. Same for the wall.

Presumably the blue flame had magical properties to penetrate the ice and magic holding the wall.

Drumpot

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Maybe the ice king had the wall rigged for a controlled collapse, like 9/11.

challengemaster

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Maybe the writers are trying to push 9/11 conspiracy theories? :pac:

MisterAnarchy

Turtwig wrote: »

The twin towers collapsed even though the planes struck the upper floors. The load for the floors below was no longer evenly distributed so the buildings collapsed downwards. Same for the wall.

Presumably the blue flame had magical properties to penetrate the ice and magic holding the wall.

Well I suppose a blue flame is the hottest you can get , as a flame grows hotter, its colour changes from red, to orange, to yellow, to the bluish-white shade that is seen taking down The Wall.
How can Viserion breath fire hotter than a living dragon.
Its possible that the Night King has imbued some magic into his flame.

If Viserion were to go head-to-head with Drogon or Rhaegal, Viserion would likely come out on top with his hotter flame and longer breath but it is said that fire cannot kill a dragon, but dragons have never encountered fire like this.

delly

Just finished it now, absolute cracker of an episode. The speed of previous episodes makes more sense now to be fair, it had to be to get to this point. Fav line has to be 'How do you answer these charges...Lord Baelish?', Baelish is like WTF!

I have a bad feeling about Tyrion perving on the Targaryen lovefest. We never did get to see how his meeting with Cersei ended, he could be compromised.

CobraClan

I thought this episode was really good! Enjoyed the whole season but have to say all the spoilers and leeks this year, it was so bad it was unavoidable! Say it ruined it for a lot of people, that's probably the reason a lot of people didn't enjoy it this year. Other than that I love Game of Thrones and cant wait till next year!

WealthyB

Seeing Theon's groin becoming an impenetrable shield of steel, I'm thinking Ramsay had a side of meatballs with that sausage dinner

J. Marston

HBO need to be make a serious effort next year to avoid leaks.

Would be an awful shame for the final few episodes of the show to be ruined by leaks and spoilers.

Tell me how

Agree with those that feel it could have been a 10 episode season without extensive additional CGI.
Varys, Bronn, Brienne, Arya, Tormund, Littlefinger, Euron, Yara, Tyrion (??). Greyworm and more could have had greater roles/storylines throughout the season in my opinion.

Think it might be as much to do with lack of direction from GRR Martin than a financial thing.

Tell me how

Agree that leaks/spoilers made this season very difficult to enjoy and to discuss with people who had fecked off to torrent sites and only wanted to talk about the leaked episode.

Cantona's Collars

Joe.ie did all the hard work and dissected previous episodes to give a good explanation as to how the NK took the wall down.
Basically since "the end of dragons" magic had been on the wane and perhaps what protected the wall wasn't as powerful as before.The NK seems to be the most powerful magical being around and can overcome weaker magic.Even the dragons were born of it and now he has one under his command.

Cina

Cina wrote: »

"I know everything, Sam"
"So you know Rhaeger and Lysa were married?"
"Err... gimme a sec.. just... need to.."
*flashback with the weird eye thing*
".. yep, knew that too, I did, shut up Sam!"

Wonder what Cersei and The Mountain's follow-up conversation went like once Jaime left...

Jaime: "I don't believe you."

*Turns and walks away from Cersei, possibly forever as Cersei looks on*

Cersei: "What the f*ck, Greg? I gave you the death smirk!"

The Mountain: "Right, right...damn, I wasn't sure. It seemed ambiguous enough, a bit on-the-fence like. As if you were giving me a bit of leeway there and sure before I could decide, he was away out the door."

Cersei: "Leeway? That's not the way it works Greg and you know it. I give you the smirk, you give them the smash."

The Mountain: "But it's Jaime. You guys do this, he'll be back tomo...."

Cersei: "HE IS BEYOND USELESS TO ME!!!"

The Mountain: "It sure doesn't sound like that to me from outside your chambers any chance yis get"

Cersei: "What did you say?"

The Mountain: "Nothing "

Creeping Death

^^ brilliant

laugh

Anyone think Danny might now be cooking a prince that was promised bun?

Dave_The_Sheep

You mean an incestous my grand-nephew-is-my-son bun?

Probably, knowing the writing on this series.

Super sperm vs Witch Woman was a Liar!

flazio

Zaph wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that was absolutely fcuking ridiculous. There's no way that dragon was aerodynamically sound and able to make those turns with all those holes in its wings! :pac:

There's no way a dead man or woman can walk without a heartbeat, blood or muscle but you suspend belief over that.

SuperSean11

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Sounds like a 9/11 conspiracy

Optimalprimerib

So has the table turned for "Brienne the beauty" and now after men laughing at her, she has a bit of a love triangle going on. Well, with 4 people instead of 3.

The reason tyrion was pissed off with Jon and danaerys could be because it might remove danys interest in the throne.

I felt that there was a bit of an over-reaction to the zombie thing by everyone with euron running off like a little girl. It may have been a ruse but the show and tell did not prove how dangerous they were.

I really like bran laying down the truth about Jon. It was like ah **** it let's just tell them, they know anyway.

All in all season 7 fits in after season 4 for me in terms of quality. I was terrified that it would ponder along until the last two episodes but they pushed the story along with purpose.

It was the most straight forward of seasons with the subtly and intrigue of previous seasons removed and replaced with very broad strokes of storytelling. It had silly moments as well, but it didn't detract too much although the wight kidnapping idea was close.

I now need to watch it from the start which I withheld until it was all done.

pickarooney

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Probably steel beams in the upper section.

Cina

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

I think we need to get out the girth-to-length formula.

Mushy

Didn't Olenna mention early in the season how Tyrion couldn't be trusted? Between that, the quote about telling lies and the end scene, makes me think Cersei may have a hold over him.

Fun episode, at least we're at the fun bits now. Liked the scene of the snow in Kings Landing!

knucklehead6

rtron wrote: »

I fill that gap in by imagining there are hooks at the ends of the chains and they fished him out.

THATS WHERE THE WING HOLES CAME FROM!! The hooks, the hooks!!

lazybones32

delly wrote: »

I have a bad feeling about Tyrion perving on the Targaryen lovefest. We never did get to see how his meeting with Cersei ended, he could be compromised.

I see it differently...to have the queen and an ally romantically-linked is not good when facing into battle. It could remove objectivity and muddy waters; cause undue influence, etc.

So.

Daenerys and Jon did a Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia?

lazybones32

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

So has the table turned for "Brienne the beauty" and now after men laughing at her, she has a bit of a love triangle going on. Well, with 4 people instead of 3.

Lady Brienne would be able to take all 4 men, i'm sure

flazio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So.

Daenerys and Jon did a Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia?

No, Jon and Dany did a Luke and Aunt Beru.

CiarraiAbu2

How are they sailing north if greyjoy destroyed their fleet. Isn't that why the unsullied had to walk home couple of episodes back.

Penn

Mushy wrote: »

Didn't Olenna mention early in the season how Tyrion couldn't be trusted? Between that, the quote about telling lies and the end scene, makes me think Cersei may have a hold over him.

Yeah I rewatched bits of the episode again last night. There's definitely something up with Tyrion and how he was shown looking on Dany's room on the boat. I initially thought maybe he had received word about Jon's true parentage but Bran/Sam would have sent a raven (presuming ravens can even deliver to ships which is unlikely) to Jon or Davos. And I don't think they would have shown Tyrion in that way if he was simply worried about how Dany & Jon's relationship will affect things. Maybe finding out Cersei was pregnant and how she had the chance to kill him right there but didn't may have been enough to make him switch sides, back to the Lannisters. A chance to have his family back (before Jaime f*cked off, of course).

Oh man are we going to see a double-turn with Jaime & Tyrion...

Effects

Deleted User wrote: »

So.

Daenerys and Jon did a Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia?

Nope. Jon and Dany aren't siblings.

super_furry

SuperSean11 wrote: »

Sounds like a 9/11 conspiracy

Dragon breath can't melt ice-beams.

Riskymove

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

How are they sailing north if greyjoy destroyed their fleet. Isn't that why the unsullied had to walk home couple of episodes back.

not all their fleet...just the ships that brought unsullied to casterly rock

they originally had enough for all unsullied and all the dothraki as well as dornish fleet

MisterAnarchy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

If it doesn't make sense, it's magic, duh :pac:

In fairness MisterA, the entire episode was daft.

Q: Are some of the actors overdubbed? The intonations are very off sometimes, and I will give professional actors the benefit of doubt rathers than just say they were bad.

Drumpot

Penn wrote: »

Yeah I rewatched bits of the episode again last night. There's definitely something up with Tyrion and how he was shown looking on Dany's room on the boat. I initially thought maybe he had received word about Jon's true parentage but Bran/Sam would have sent a raven (presuming ravens can even deliver to ships which is unlikely) to Jon or Davos. And I don't think they would have shown Tyrion in that way if he was simply worried about how Dany & Jon's relationship will affect things. Maybe finding out Cersei was pregnant and how she had the chance to kill him right there but didn't may have been enough to make him switch sides, back to the Lannisters. A chance to have his family back (before Jaime f*cked off, of course).

Oh man are we going to see a double-turn with Jaime & Tyrion...

Not when she's going to double cross the dragon queen. It would destroy his character for them to spend seasons with Tyrian totally sold on Darnerys, even for him to be risking his life to tell cersai that he believes the world would be a better place as her as queen. And then because she doesn't kill him he makes a complete switcharoo . That's not Tyrian.

I think it was odd him standing outside , but maybe he was contemplating what that would mean for the war or his queen. He is her hand, so his job is to anticipate trouble and advise her accordingly. In short he is always worried about his queen , maybe he will have less say with Jon in by picture and it signals Tyrions waning importance to Her. Or maybe she felt a bit like family or a good friend and after seeing his own family for the firt time in years he felt he just wanted her company.

BetsyEllen

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In reckon the Tyrion disappointment is due to the fact that him and Cersei have mildly buried the hatchet over Joffrey and that he is to become an uncle again, with the future of Lannister family being revived.

He already expressed sorrow over seeing the Lannister army being destroyed in battle. Is he slowly returning to Team Lannister?

I was discussing this at work this morning and the general feeling is that Tyrion may turn. We didn't see the rest of the conversation with Cersei.
She revealed she is pregnant and then next thing she's agreeing to help them. Maybe Tyrion, now knowing there is going to be a Lannister child, has agreed to act as a spy?

Unshelved wrote: »

Now what am I going to watch?

The Great British Bake Off is back tonight :P

Penn

Drumpot wrote: »

Not when she's going to double cross the dragon queen. It would destroy his character for them to spend seasons with Tyrian totally sold on Darnerys, even for him to be risking his life to tell cersai that he believes the world would be a better place as her as queen. And then because she doesn't kill him he makes a complete switcharoo . That's not Tyrian.

I think it was odd him standing outside , but maybe he was contemplating what that would mean for the war or his queen. He is her hand, so his job is to anticipate trouble and advise her accordingly. In short he is always worried about his queen , maybe he will have less say with Jon in by picture and it signals Tyrions waning importance to Her. Or maybe she felt a bit like family or a good friend and after seeing his own family for the firt time in years he felt he just wanted her company.

I think a lot of the time, you'd be right. But considering the importance of that moment, its position in the season finale during this big reveal of Jon's true parentage and claim to the Iron Throne... cutting away to Tyrion repeatedly just because he's worried about Dany is an odd choice and unnecessary. If that's all it is, they could easily have left it until next season, show Tyrion seeing Jon coming out of Dany's room the next morning and gone with the same story of him being worried about Dany.

But I think there's likely some significance to purposefully showing Tyrion watching them during that huge moment and that it's hinting at something far stronger than just Tyrion being concerned about their relationship.

silvervixen84

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

Tell me how

silvervixen84 wrote:

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

Not unless they are claimed as a Wight by the NK and/or a nightwalker, if my understanding is correct.

Penn

silvervixen84 wrote: »

So if anyone who died beyond the wall became a wight, now that the wall is gone, will anyone who dies anywhere become a wight?

I think they have to be raised by either the Night King or a White Walker. They don't just come back to life themselves. We saw that in episode 6 where once the White Walker was killed, the wights he had raised we suddenly full dead again. I presume there's some sort of distance they have to be near to raise the dead.

I think the reason they always burnt bodies was to prevent the WW from being able to raise them, rather than them definitely coming back to life.

Mousewar

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I was discussing this at work this morning and the general feeling is that Tyrion may turn. We didn't see the rest of the conversation with Cersei.
She revealed she is pregnant and then next thing she's agreeing to help them. Maybe Tyrion, now knowing there is going to be a Lannister child, has agreed to act as a spy?

There was quite a bit of emphasis on how much Tyrion loved the children alright. He made quite a meal of it. It was almost as if they were laying the justification for why he might consider helping Cersei now that there's another child's life at stake.

AlmightyCushion

Isn't that big, scary, undead, dragon actually not that big of a threat? One hit from an arrow made from valerian steel or dragonglass and he's done for.

charlieIRL

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

I came to post the exact same thing. I think Tyrion has been conflicted since he saw the Lannister men burning. When all that was left of the family was Cersei and Jamie I think he could justify his support for Dany. Now that there is a child on the way to keep the family line going, and knowing that it's highly likely there's no version of a Dany win where Cersei (and the baby) lives, I think we're going to see a heel turn from Tyrion.

Maybe Tyrion was feeling guilt but if Jamie makes it to Winterfell and they make up then he'll be firmly back on team Danny.


Great episode, such a pity that's it for this season.

Billy86

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Isn't that big, scary, undead, dragon actually not that big of a threat? One hit from an arrow made from valerian steel or dragonglass and he's done for.

What if it's not enough to penetrate his scales, like when a flurry of (admittedly non dragon glass) just bounced off Drogon in Highgarden a few episodes ago?

Seems like Qyburn's invention might come in particularly useful at some point!