"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

marklazarcovic

If your into pop vinyls

Darch Nemesis

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

I suppose; he already got her to ditch Daario for the good of her campaign.

It will be interesting to see how he acts in the next season.

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

My impression of Tyrion's stare at Dany's door was that he was worried about her being distracted by love during a time when they all need their wits about them. I didn't pick up even a hint that he has feelings for her.

That was how I read that scene too. My thoughts were that Tyrion knows that between the wars with the Night King and Cersei, not all of them will be getting out of those battles alive. A relationship could end tragically and derail the entire project.

If, and this is a big if, Tyrion has made some secret pact with Cersei, then possibly he is in it for the doublecross too. He berated Jon for not being able to lie, well maybe Tyrion takes his own advice and has no problem spoofing his sister for the greater good.

It would make no sense for him to change sides. I sure hope that wasn't what was being hinted at anyways.

MisterAnarchy

Sleepy wrote: »

The series is being rushed to completion for the sake of rushing it to completion. The scenes we're missing out on are ones where most of the costs have already been incurred: the actors have already been paid, the sets have already been created, the costumes have already been stitched. It's literally a matter of writing a few more pages of dialogue and paying the filming crew (which have already been assembled) for a few additional days work.

Ever since I heard a few years ago that Weiss and Benioff were planning to produce a new series Confederate directly after GOT ,its been apparent that they want to get the show finished up as soon as possible and get onto Confederate.
The original plan was for 10 Seasons to do the books justice.
Even up to about Season 5 ,10 Seasons was still the benchmark .
However somewhere along the line this was truncated to 8 Seasons of which Season 7 and 8 would be shorter seasons than previous ones.

Obviously Martin hasn't released a new book so the lack of extra material was a factor in shortening the series.
There could be issues with retaining key cast members for longer than 8 Seasons ,they might want to move onto other things .
Of course in Game of Thrones no character is indisposable ,well that used to be the case up until this series where some characters have becoming immortal.

Budgetary costs are also a factor ,for example the battle on the Frozen lake in episode 6 took 5 weeks to shoot .
But as you correctly said ,the scenes cut from this season have mostly been dialogue driven ,low budget scenes that can easily and quickly be shot as there are 2 shooting crews at all times for GOT.
The producers might have also wanted to keep things simple but whatever way you look at way the decision to shorten the season to 7 episodes has been a very poor one.

KKkitty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My impression of Tyrion's stare at Dany's door was that he was worried about her being distracted by love during a time when they all need their wits about them. I didn't pick up even a hint that he has feelings for her.

Look what happened with Shae when Tyrion fell in love with her. Tyrion let his guard down big time with Shae and she stabbed him in the back in more ways than one. He probably knows that if you're going into battle love doesn't come into it. It's survival. I doubt he's ever going to be on Cersei's side ever again. She has treated him badly and on numerous occasions tried to have him killed. He can't forgive or forget that hopefully.

MisterAnarchy

The actor who plays Bran revealed that an important scene was cut in the season finale

It’s clear after Sansa turns the tables on Littlefinger that she has had some sort of conversation with Bran, but we don’t get to see it. When did it take place?
We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—.”

Billy86

Bit of a shame to cut that a few episodes after (if I recall) she was being told to use everything at her disposal, etc etc.

J. Marston

I'm glad it was. I know the actor isn't explaining the scene fully but "I need your help" sounds a little clunky.

Sometimes less is more.

MisterAnarchy

Jamie is only gone a few days and Cersei has already conjured herself a new fella.
Who knew she was a master of the black arts and was such a chav !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf3CPnDMVz0

benny79

Why is everyone going on about the budget? and how many episodes etc.. I do agree there should be 10 episodes in series 7 & 8 but this is G.O.T it's the most successful show ever earning millions, probably billions. I doubt they reduced it because of budget sure the longer it goes on the better!

Or else what's the point of producing it in the first place! A good example was Lost. It was so successful that they kept dragging it out & out till everyone eventually was lost!! but you get my point..

5star02707

benny79 wrote: »

Why is everyone going on about the budget? and how many episodes etc.. I do agree there should be 10 episodes in series 7 & 8 but this is G.O.T it's the most successful show ever earning millions, probably billions. I doubt they reduced it because of budget sure the longer it goes on the better!

Or else what's the point of producing it in the first place! A good example was Lost. It was so successful that they kept dragging it out & out till everyone eventually was lost!! but you get my point..

I'd say the actors have conflicting schedules and they couldn't afford their wages. That's my hunch.

homerun_homer

benny79 wrote: »

A good example was Lost. It was so successful that they kept dragging it out & out till everyone eventually was lost!! but you get my point..

You're wrong actually, the studio's intention was to drag it out which is why the 2nd & 3rd seasons particularly felt dragged out, but the show runners negotiated that they had to have an end to the show so they could just get on with the story and worked out the amount of episodes and end date off the back of that. There wasn't too much filler from that point on, but of course personal taste in the show is another debate in itself.

Tabnabs

And for Cersai to pull this stunt off, Daenerys, the most powerful women and leader in the GOT universe, has to have no military intelligence or spies to warn her of these movements. She also has to suspend her mistrust of Cersai and believe she will not go back on her "word".

Seems legit...

Cantona's Collars

Somebody posted about Euron legging it when he saw the wight and how could that have been foreseen to use as an excuse to get away and bring back an army.Looking back,he started a row straight away and was probably gonna use that as an excuse by being asked to leave,a few more insults and he'd have been sent away from the negotiations, the wight just gave him that chance to get away without raising suspicion and he took it.

KKkitty

zerks wrote: »

Somebody posted about Euron legging it when he saw the wight and how could that have been foreseen to use as an excuse to get away and bring back an army.Looking back,he started a row straight away and was probably gonna use that as an excuse by being asked to leave,a few more insults and he'd have been sent away from the negotiations, the wight just gave him that chance to get away without raising suspicion and he took it.

Or maybe he ran away scared? He's a bit of a bully really and didn't want any part of the fight against the night king. He goes after people weaker than him.

AlmightyCushion

KKkitty wrote: »

Or maybe he ran away scared? He's a bit of a bully really and didn't want any part of the fight against the night king. He goes after people weaker than him.

Cersei said that him running off back to the Iron Islands was all part of her plan and he's really going off to collect the army she bought from the Golden Company.

KKkitty

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Cersei said that him running off back to the Iron Islands was all part of her plan and he's really going off to collect the army she bought from the Golden Company.

I'd say if she is pregnant it's Euron's. Jaime finds out and kills her. They'll need one hell of an army with what's coming.

JamboMac

KKkitty wrote: »

I'd say if she is pregnant it's Euron's. Jaime finds out and kills her. They'll need one hell of an army with what's coming.

I think it's a zombie monster baby, I think her witch doctor did some black magic.

benny79

I dont think she is Pregnant as she is kinda of making it obvious by rubbing her stomach in front of certain people

Jamie will find out Id say theres definitely a twist to it!

homerun_homer

benny79 wrote: »

I dont think she is Pregnant as she is kinda of making it obvious by rubbing her stomach in front of certain people

Jamie will find out Id say theres definitely a twist to it!

Don't forget Qyburn was with her asking if if she wanted him to give her something for it when Jaime walked in on them in the episode where she revealed she was pregnant. I don't think it's a fake out.

benny79

She could of had a headache

podgemonster

When the Wight attacks she doesn't protect her stomach. A pregnant mother would immediately shield her child, wouldn't she?

Cina

benny79 wrote: »

Why is everyone going on about the budget? and how many episodes etc.. I do agree there should be 10 episodes in series 7 & 8 but this is G.O.T it's the most successful show ever earning millions, probably billions. I doubt they reduced it because of budget sure the longer it goes on the better!

Or else what's the point of producing it in the first place! A good example was Lost. It was so successful that they kept dragging it out & out till everyone eventually was lost!! but you get my point..

You can't really compare GoT with Lost, though.

Lost is a public network show, so it had adverts, and that was their primary source of money for it. More episodes = more adverts = more money.

GoT is on a private network with no adverts.

HBO know it's the world's most popular show and that people will subscribe for it regardless of whether it's seven or ten episodes. Considering the increasing cost in production, acting fees and overall budget, they probably decided to reduce it to seven to keep it the same overall budget, knowing it won't affect subscribers and will probably still get the same rights fees from networks and charge the same price for Bluray/DVD as previous seasons.

benny79

Cina wrote: »

You can't really compare GoT with Lost, though.

Lost is a public network show, so it had adverts, and that was their primary source of money for it. More episodes = more adverts = more money.

GoT is on a private network with no adverts.

HBO know it's the world's most popular show and that people will subscribe for it regardless of whether it's seven or ten episodes. Considering the increasing cost in production, acting fees and overall budget, they probably decided to reduce it to seven to keep it the same overall budget, knowing it won't affect subscribers and will probably still get the same rights fees from networks and charge the same price for Bluray/DVD as previous seasons.

I wasn't comparing it was an example! What show do you watch? because when I watch G.O.T on Sky Atlantic there is defiantly ad breaks..

homerun_homer

benny79 wrote: »

I wasn't comparing it was an example! What show do you watch? because when I watch G.O.T on Sky Atlantic there is defiantly ad breaks..

HBO don't have adverts during shows. Sky do.

JamboMac

podgemonster wrote: »

When the Wight attacks she doesn't protect her stomach. A pregnant mother would immediately shield her child, wouldn't she?

If she is pregnant and she dies guess what happens;). Plus it's clearly the mountains, I see the way he looks at her:D

Robsweezie

saw sansa actress defending her role in having littlefinger killed

http://www.nme.com/news/tv/sophie-turner-defends-character-sansa-stark-game-thrones-fans-twitter-2132742

all this talk of him loving sansa....everything littlefinger ever did was for littlefinger. whatever served him best or worked to his advantage..whats in it for him? how can he benefit from it?

he was fuucked ever since bran hit him with ''chaos is a ladder''.

benny79

homerun_homer wrote: »

HBO don't have adverts during shows. Sky do.

Dont get you. HBO isn't a channel its a producer of a show which in turn sells it to a network ie Sky etc.. So technically no show would have adverts or am I missing something?

Evade

benny79 wrote: »

Dont get you. HBO isn't a channel its a producer of a show which in turn sells it to a network ie Sky etc.. So technically no show would have adverts or am I missing something?

HBO is a subscription only channel in the US that doesn't show ads.

Mousewar

podgemonster wrote: »

When the Wight attacks she doesn't protect her stomach. A pregnant mother would immediately shield her child, wouldn't she?

I don't know, would she?
Any pregnant women here? Preferably one who has been attacked by a wight.

KKkitty

After this season what houses are no more? Arya killed all the Freys, Sansa fed Ramsay to his dogs and Drogon burned Sam's father and brother so is that house gone too?

Mr Crispy

Sam will count as a Tarly imo, despite his father disowning him.

Tyrells are gone too of course.

KKkitty

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Sam will count as a Tarly imo, despite his father disowning him.

Tyrells are gone too of course.

Sam isn't a fighter so hopefully it'll be a neutral house if that's even possible. Forgot about House Tyrell.

AlanG

Penn wrote: »

Not that it matters as such, just that it's poor writing that took me out of the moment. Arya shows up and is barred at the gates after saying she's a Stark, but Sam shows up, says he's a friend of Jon and is suddenly allowed to just wander up to Bran's bedroom.

Just thinking out loud, but I think it could have been better that Sam introduces himself to a guard at the gate, the guard says Bran is waiting to speak with him, then it gives Sam a reason to ask how Bran knew he was coming, leading to the Three Eyed Raven conversation

Its not that long since Sam traveled through the North from the wall and he looks the same - lots of people probably know him.

jcd5971

AlanG wrote:

Its not that long since Sam traveled through the North from the wall and he looks the same - lots of people probably know him.

Exactly this.



Also how do you know he wasn't stopped at the gates had a nice chat with guards who identified him and then organised lodgings for for Gilly and little sam , Sam himself then was directed to see the mental fella who calls himself a raven.


Not every detail can or needs to be shown on screen.

J. Marston

KKkitty wrote: »

After this season what houses are no more? Arya killed all the Freys, Sansa fed Ramsay to his dogs and Drogon burned Sam's father and brother so is that house gone too?

Dorne, Martell/Sand: Gone.
Highgarden, Tyrell: Gone.
The Twins, Frey: Gone.
Dreadfort, Bolton: Gone.

Storm's End, Baratheon: Gone, more or less. Gendry's a bastard.
Horn Hill, Tarly: Gone, more or less. Sam gave up all lands and titles joining the Night's Watch.
Riverrun, Tully: Gone, mostly. Edmure still imprisoned presumably.

Evade

J. Marston wrote: »

Horn Hill, Tarly: Gone, more or less. Sam gave up all lands and titles joining the Night's Watch.

What happens if they defeat the night king and there's no more need for the Nightwatch?

J. Marston

Evade wrote: »

What happens if they defeat the night king and there's no more need for the Nightwatch?

Stannis said he could legitimise Jon and make him Lord of Winterfell. So if Jon/Dany end up on the throne, they could do the same for Sam, if he wants it.

Evade

J. Marston wrote: »

Stannis said he could legitimise Jon and make him Lord of Wintefell. So if Jon/Dany end up on the throne, they could do the same for Sam, if he wants it.

I meant in a more general case. I don't know if there are any other highborn in the Nightwatch but if there are and they're released from their oath it would make succession in those houses interesting.

J. Marston

I don't think there's many highborn in the Night's Watch. The only highborn that I can think of are Jon, Sam, Jeor Mormont, Aemon Targaryen and Benjen. And only one of them is still in the NW/alive. The very first guy we see in GoT was also highborn but I don't think the show ever mentioned his name. He was Waymar Royce, Yohn Royce's son.

Dial Hard

homerun_homer wrote: »

Don't forget Qyburn was with her asking if if she wanted him to give her something for it when Jaime walked in on them in the episode where she revealed she was pregnant

All of which could have been part of the fake-out for Jaime's benefit.

Vojera

J. Marston wrote: »

Edmure still imprisoned presumably.

Did the Freys still have Edmure or did the Lannisters take him? I can't remember.

Penn

Vojera wrote: »

Did the Freys still have Edmure or did the Lannisters take him? I can't remember.

Freys took him. Walder said that Edmure was back in chains when they were having the feast with the Lannisters. Forgot about him myself actually. Maybe he was able to become Lord of Riverrun again with the Freys dead.

DeadHand

Penn wrote: »

Freys took him. Walder said that Edmure was back in chains when they were having the feast with the Lannisters. Forgot about him myself actually. Maybe he was able to become Lord of Riverrun again with the Freys dead.

I doubt Cersei would allow it, so far as I can tell the Lannisters have occupied the Riverlands and probably Riverrun with it with the demise of House Frey. Ed Sheeran and his crew were part of that occupying force.

Doubtful that Edmure will play any further part in the story.

DeadHand

The breaking of the wheel has been one of the main themes of the later seasons. We have seen major dynasties shaken: either eradicated entirely or staggering on with imperfect scions.

The Starks are relatively healthy though still headed by a bastard (so far as is popularly known) with only two girls and a cripple (don't goggle that) as alternative heirs. The Mormonts have lost Jeor and probably Jorah, Lyanna is as formidable as either but the house still seems to lack male heirs. The Boltons are extinct while the Umbers and Karstarks are barely hanging in with child lords.

House Arryn is down to a single, sickly heir who does not look like becoming the next Tywin Lannister anytime soon. The Greyjoys are now headed by an insane person with the rightful heir being a eunuch disinterested in rule. The three surviving members of that dynasty are intent on murdering each other.

The Freys are dead. House Tully is deposed, it's sole surviving son weak and in a weak position. The Baratheon's are extinct for now- Gendrey being the only hope of a future restoration. The Martells are gone, mostly murdered by their own.

House Tyrell is extinguished, House Tarly with them. A Tarly restoration seems even less likely than a Baratheon, resting as it does on Sam who swore away his inheritance. The Lannisters are down to three deeply troubled individuals facing fatal threats from various sources- including each other.

So far as is popularly known (and as far as Dany knows) the Targs are down to a single, infertile member. The ironic twist being that that great House, which was the closest to perishing throughout the series, could be the strongest by the story's end comprised of two young, widely respected and highly capable individuals.

With the legendary figures who dominated Westeros at the beginning of the story such as Robert, Tywin, Stannis, Oleanna and Ned all passed (none of old age) a new generation of heroes/villains has emerged in the forms of Jon, Dany, Cersei and Euron among others. As much as the breaking of the wheel has been a theme of the series, as the established Houses have floundered, so too has the changing of the guard: the fall of the old order, the disappearance of the figures of that order and the struggle to replace them.

ludite

degrassinoel wrote: »

Theon finally regrew some balls by using his ehh, groin - you know what i mean!

And, poor Sam, does he still not know about his Da and Brother?

And so much for my dream of seeing this happen

I guess that makes Sam the lord of wherever the Tarly's are from now.

KKkitty

ludite wrote: »

I guess that makes Sam the lord of wherever the Tarly's are from now.

Don't they denounce all titles and houses when they become commander of the night's watch?

Pugzilla

Talla Tarly is likely the Head of House Tarly now.

KKkitty

Since the wall is gone doesn't that make the night's watch obsolete?

Pugzilla

Castle Black and the Shadow Tower are still standing, could be used as a rallying points to launch a counterattack against the flank of the army of the dead. If the Nightking didn't have a dragon, I imagine a disciplined army with heavy infantry, missile units and artillery could f@ck up the wights. But this being TV show, we''ll probably get another lame battle like Spoils of War where a few hundred men are supposed to represent the whole Lannister/Tarly army.