Anti-vaxxers

ancapailldorcha

astrofool wrote: »

I see the latest tactic is a "they hide or don't tell me information about vaccines". All the information is readily available, all side-effects and risks are called out, I've never met a doctor who won't go through them as necessary (having got many vaccines due to travelling to different parts of the world), I mean, do people want it played on TV 24/7 in loud voices and big flashing writing before they're happy? If a doctor won't tell you, find another doctor, if you're going down the realm of asking nonsensical questions to try and reaffirm wrongly held beliefs, then the doctors (of above average intelligence) will see through this and likely give short shrift.

On a more constructive note, I have read convincing arguments that if doctors were able to spend more time with patients who were genuinely skeptical of vaccines and not just trying to spread a doctrine of ignorance then there might be fewer anti-vaxxers. The problem is that modern GP's don't spend much time with patients and modern healthcare systems are starting to feel the strains being imposed by an ageing population.

Amantine

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I have read convincing arguments that if doctors were able to spend more time with patients who were genuinely skeptical of vaccines and not just trying to spread a doctrine of ignorance then there might be fewer anti-vaxxers. The problem is that modern GP's don't spend much time with patients and modern healthcare systems are starting to feel the strains being imposed by an ageing population.

Also if there wasn't so many people reporting vaccine injury including quite a few on this site, people would feel more comfortable injecting their children with known neurotoxins.

batgoat

Amantine wrote: »

Also if there wasn't so many people reporting vaccine injury including quite a few on this site, people would feel more comfortable injecting their children with known neurotoxins.

You do realise the hpv vaccine now has high uptake rates? Had to combat a fear campaign but looking good on the uptake rate now.

Capt'n Midnight

Amantine wrote: »

Search the thread, there is lots of evidence that vaccines are not risk free. Show me a single study that proves that the HPV protects from cervical cancer. There is no such thing.
And please, do NOT patronise a parent on what did or did not cause their child's illness.

You need to prove that hundreds of women are killed by the HPV vaccine in Ireland or Scotland. Or thousands in the UK , or tens of thousands in the EU. Otherwise all available evidence shows the benefits of the HPV vaccine outweigh the risks.

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l1161

138 692 women born between 1 January 1988 and 5 June 1996 and who had a smear test result recorded at age 20. Compared with unvaccinated women born in 1988, vaccinated women born in 1995 and 1996 showed an 89% reduction ... in prevalent cervical intraepithelial neoplasia (CIN) grade 3 or worse
...
Younger age at immunisation was associated with increasing vaccine effectiveness

Please do not think I'm posting this for you.

The audience is undecided parents.
To show them that their children could die from easily preventable diseases.



I wonder about the ethics of this. 310,000 women die of cervical cancer every year. That's three million a decade for ONE mostly preventable disease. How many active anti-vaxxers are there ? How much blood is on their hands ? What is the best way to silence them ? If people have to die then those who self-select should be ahead of the victims. Trolls deserve even less respect.

ancapailldorcha

Amantine wrote: »

Also if there wasn't so many people reporting vaccine injury including quite a few on this site, people would feel more comfortable injecting their children with known neurotoxins.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

ToBeFrank123

There is no evidence of a link between autism and the mmr vaccine.

There is strong evidence of a link between not being vaccinated and children picking up a potentially serious illness like measles.

Creches in particular should ban non vaccinated kids over the age of 1 as it puts kids under the age of 1 at serious risk. If you want to endanger your own child that's fine but do it away from other people's kids.

Dohnjoe

Amantine wrote: »

Also if there wasn't so many people reporting vaccine injury including quite a few on this site, people would feel more comfortable injecting their children with known neurotoxins.

Benefit of the doubt gone

Varta

Amantine wrote: »

Also if there wasn't so many people reporting vaccine injury including quite a few on this site, people would feel more comfortable injecting their children with known neurotoxins.

I reported a vaccine injury, however, I am still 100% committed to the principle of vaccination.

Capt'n Midnight

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Creches in particular should ban non vaccinated kids over the age of 1 as it puts kids under the age of 1 at serious risk. If you want to endanger your own child that's fine but do it away from other people's kids.

Please note

You only need to keep them away from other people's kids until they are vaccinated.

ToBeFrank123

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Please note

You only need to keep them away from other people's kids until they are vaccinated.

Please note, children under 1 cannot be effectively vaccinated. So they are prime candidates for being infected with measles from an unvaccinated kid.

A creche with an older unvaccinated kid puts a kid under 1 at risk. Which is why older unvaccinated kids shouldn't be allowed into a creche.

DublinWriter

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You only need to keep them away from other people's kids until they are vaccinated.

Ohh...I thought the whole thing was that being vaccinated made them immune in the first place, do tell?

mulbot

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There is no evidence of a link between autism and the mmr vaccine.

There is strong evidence of a link between not being vaccinated and children picking up a potentially serious illness like measles.

Creches in particular should ban non vaccinated kids over the age of 1 as it puts kids under the age of 1 at serious risk. If you want to endanger your own child that's fine but do it away from other people's kids.

Serious question-should Creche workers be subject to the same criteria? As in, make sure they are fully up to date with all necessary vaccines?

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Serious question-should Creche workers be subject to the same criteria? As in, make sure they are fully up to date with all necessary vaccines?

Yeah they should. When we were looking at creches made sure the kids had to be vaccinated , forgot about the staff. Must look into that.

mulbot

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Please note, children under 1 cannot be effectively vaccinated. So they are prime candidates for being infected with measles from an unvaccinated kid.

A creche with an older unvaccinated kid puts a kid under 1 at risk. Which is why older unvaccinated kids shouldn't be allowed into a creche.

Just need to ask, why are children under 1 vaccinated if its not effective?

Igotadose

Even Donald Trump is advocating for the MMR now:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-measles-vaccination_n_5cc33edfe4b04eb7ff95a4b1

ToBeFrank123

mulbot wrote: »

Just need to ask, why are children under 1 vaccinated if its not effective?

Not 100% sure of the reason but its not recommended. Here is a good resource about the vaccine.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/pcischedule/commonqs/

As for creches, creche workers should absolutely show proof of vaccination. Measles is highly contagious.

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

Even Donald Trump is advocating for the MMR now:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-measles-vaccination_n_5cc33edfe4b04eb7ff95a4b1

That's going to annoy some of his fans on here, and I'm sure the conspiracy folks will be on about it at some point.

Amantine

Igotadose wrote: »

Even Donald Trump is advocating for the MMR now:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-measles-vaccination_n_5cc33edfe4b04eb7ff95a4b1

Donald Trump really? Where can I get some? Give me some now!

moonage

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't accept that medics are refusing to acknowledge incidents. That would be highly irresponsible.

Vaccines aren't just developed and sold like the latest iPhone. They have to be rigorously assessed for safety and efficacy.

The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries there is!

moonage

batgoat wrote: »

In positive news, mandatory vaccines for attending school are being run through the attorney general to see if it's constitutional.

Sounds like something out of Brave New World or 1984.

TheRepentent

And another wingnut joins the anti-vax thread......

Amantine

TheRepentent wrote: »

And another wingnut joins the anti-vax thread......

Don't worry, you have a bunch of self appointed experts bloggers with the word "skeptic" in their websites name to help you fight them off.

Amantine

TheRepentent wrote: »

And another wingnut joins the anti-vax thread......

You should be delighted, how else would you continue this all-or-nothing propaganda.
Welcome Moonage, be aware that you are now and forever more an idiotics, filthy "anti-vaxxer" as this crowd doesn't do subtle.

Amantine

moonage wrote: »

The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries there is!

How dare you, they want nothing but the best for everyone!

One of the more recent publicized examples of corruption concerns China, where the country fined the UK pharmaceuticals firm GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) a staggering $490m when the company was found guilty of bribery. Meanwhile in Argentina, the company paid out $240,000 after it was found to be experimenting on human beings during vaccine trials, which lead to numerous deaths. Moreover, the firm dumped more that 45 liters of concentrated live polio into the water at a Belgium treatment plant, potentially endangering swimmers and fishermen, along with individuals working at the facility

Amantine

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Otherwise all available evidence shows the benefits of the HPV vaccine outweigh the risks.

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l1161

From 2002 through 2005 the Australian affiliate of Merck paid Elsevier an undisclosed amount to publish eight issues of a medical journal, the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine. Although it gave the appearance of being an independent peer-reviewed journal, without any indication that Merck had paid for it, the journal actually reprinted articles that originally appeared in other publications and that were favorable to Merck. The misleading publication came to light in 2009 during a personal injury lawsuit filed over Vioxx; 9 of 29 articles in the journal's second issue referred positively to Vioxx."

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merck_%26_Co.#Sham_medical_journal

Merck says thanks you though as they are laughing all the way to the bank!

Full-year 2018 worldwide sales were $42.3 billion, an increase of 5 percent compared with the full year of 2017.

Sales for the full year of 2018 include approximately $125 million for the replenishment of doses of GARDASIL 9 (Human Papillomavirus 9-valent Vaccine, Recombinant).

Source:https://www.mrknewsroom.com/news-release/corporate-news/merck-announces-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2018-financial-results

Erik Shun

So, as usual... nothing but diversion from you....I don't see any studies from you showing HPV doesn't work

Amantine

Erik Shun wrote: »

So, as usual... nothing but diversion from you....I don't see any studies from you showing HPV doesn't work

What? HPV is a virus, how does it "work"?

Erik Shun

Amantine wrote: »

What? HPV is a virus, how does it "work"?

So, you have nothing...that's all you had to say, tnx

Timberrrrrrrr

Amantine wrote: »

How dare you, they want nothing but the best for everyone!

One of the more recent publicized examples of corruption concerns China, where the country fined the UK pharmaceuticals firm GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) a staggering $490m when the company was found guilty of bribery. Meanwhile in Argentina, the company paid out $240,000 after it was found to be experimenting on human beings during vaccine trials, which lead to numerous deaths. Moreover, the firm dumped more that 45 liters of concentrated live polio into the water at a Belgium treatment plant, potentially endangering swimmers and fishermen, along with individuals working at the facility

If i recall correctly this was an accident so using the word "dumped" is a little disingenuous of you.

Amantine

Erik Shun wrote: »

So, as usual... nothing but diversion from you....I don't see any studies from you showing HPV doesn't work

6. How effective is the new vaccine?

Studies have shown it is 100% effective in the prevention of cervical precancers and noninvasive cervical cancers caused by HPV-16 and 18 in those not already exposed to those strains, according to Merck & Co. Inc., which makes Gardasil. Merck is a WebMD sponsor.

source:https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/hpv-cervical-cancer-vaccine-15-facts#2

Precancers does not equal cancer. Not all cervical cancer is caused by HPV-16 and 18 and most precancers will be caught in anyone who has regular smear test.
Japan pulled gardasil because it was too dangerous and the benefit unknown. Are they loony "anti-vaxxers" too?