Anti-vaxxers

TheRepentent

mountai wrote: »

Firstly , Im not an antivaxer

Yeah right :rolleyes:

Igotadose

DublinWriter wrote: »

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

And, their autism rate rose. See, the MMR vaccine reduces autism!
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7076-autism-rises-despite-mmr-ban-in-japan/

Plus, it's now again recommended in Japan :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5557250/
From 2006 onward, measles and rubella vaccine (MR) has been given free-of-charge to children aged 1 y and 5–6 y.1 More than 10 y passed before NIP resumed its recommendation for the MR vaccine. As a result, there are susceptible pockets among female birth cohorts 1989–1993, with seropositive proportions of 78.3%.3

DublinWriter

paul71 wrote: »

Are you back to start denying 350 million deaths from Smallpox after your last drivel post?

Do you have any scientific papers to back that figure up?

DublinWriter

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And they've had their biggest Measles outbreak in years recently:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/world/asia/japan-measles-outbreak.html

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

ancapailldorcha

DublinWriter wrote: »

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

I don't have one either and it worked for me.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

DublinWriter wrote: »

Don't have a subscription to the NYT, so I can't read that. Any links to scientific papers that back that claim up?

It's an open free link. I've just read it.

paul71

DublinWriter wrote: »

Do you have any scientific papers to back that figure up?

Are you trying to deny the figure The WHO says 350 to 500 million deaths in the 20th Century. 300 million in the 19th, I have read that 7% of all humans who ever lived prior to vaccination died of smallpox.

A seven year old can type "Smallpox deaths" into google and the number of deaths pop up instantly from hundreds of sources. Go on try it and inform yourself or should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

mountai

should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

Cant think too much of your Kid , offering to send it over to an Antivaxers to "Educate" him . You should be reported to Child Protection Services

paul71

mountai wrote: »

should I send my 7 year old over to help you.

Cant think too much of your Kid , offering to send it over to an Antivaxers to "Educate" him . You should be reported to Child Protection Services

No you should for deliberately spreading disinformation that put kids lives at risk. I vaccinated my kids and refuse to any anti vaxxers kids near them.

paul71

https://ourworldindata.org/smallpox#long-run-smallpox-deaths-in-europe

Oxford university study on Smallpox, I dumped the data for Smallpox cases in Europe only from 1920 to 1976 into excel, total cases 115,869,742. The death rate for contracted cases was 30%.

paul71

mountai wrote: »

esearchers at Newcastle University and Queen Mary University of London discovered the trials were not designed to identify cervical cancer, which takes decades to develop.

Dr Claire Rees, lead researcher, said: “Trials may have overestimated efficacy by combining high-grade cervical disease with low-grade cervical changes that occur more frequently but often resolve spontaneously without progressing. We found insufficient data to clearly conclude that HPV vaccine prevents the higher-grade abnormal cell changes that can eventually develop into cervical cancer.

“Abnormal cell changes are likely to have been over diagnosed in the trials because cervical cytology was conducted at six to 12 months rather than at the normal screening interval of 36 months. This, too, means that the trials may have overestimated the efficacy of the vaccine, again because some of the lesions would have regressed spontaneously.”

The last sentence should be especially noted . I suppose these researchers will be vilified , as they dont CONFORM .

Here you go, cherry picking anti vax poison.

GreeBo

mountai wrote: »

. I do not support HPV on the basis of witnessing huge damage done to a family member but would encourage Vaccination against other disease .

That's the equivalent of not wearing a seatbelt because you know someone who drowned when they couldn't escape from a car that crashed into water.

I'm still going to wear my belt and still going to get all the possible vaccinations for my children.
If there are negative outcomes then so be it, I'd much rather a negative outcome due to doing something positive than not doing anything.

paul71

https://www.who.int/immunization/diseases/hpv/en/

HPV deaths 2012. 266,000

Ping Chow Chi

DublinWriter wrote: »

Any source for the claim on the high rates?

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2018/5374725/

Wow, didn't realise Japan had banned the MMR...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/676354/autism-rate-among-children-select-countries-worldwide/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/autism-rates-by-country/

https://www.focusforhealth.org/autism-rates-across-the-developed-world/

Tops many/most countries who use the MMR jab

ohnonotgmail

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/676354/autism-rate-among-children-select-countries-worldwide/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/autism-rates-by-country/

https://www.focusforhealth.org/autism-rates-across-the-developed-world/

Tops many/most countries who use the MMR jab

Perhaps you are confusing correlation and causation. Is it not as likely that autism is more likely to get diagnosed in more developed countries?

Igotadose

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/676354/autism-rate-among-children-select-countries-worldwide/


Tops many/most countries who use the MMR jab

Absolute numbers mean nothing, of course. It's genetic as posted about a couple pages back.

When Japan had banned the MMR, the autism rate *rose* during that period. So, get your kids the MMR to prevent autism! See how this works?

seamus

Igotadose wrote: »

When Japan had banned the MMR, the autism rate *rose* during that period. So, get your kids the MMR to prevent autism! See how this works?

Make sure you move to Japan first. Something about Japanese auras and their naturally low-gluten diet probably helps prevent the aul autism.

DublinWriter

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not as likely that autism is more likely to get diagnosed in more developed countries?

Interesting point. One of issues regarding Japan was that a lot autism was going undiagnosed because of cultural "mores", the same was true in other non-western cultures...

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/core-set-autism-traits-shows-diverse-cultures/

Even with DSM-V bringing Aspergers into the Autism-spectrum, the type of Autism I'm referring to is the total non-verbal, self-harming, un-toilet-trainable end of the spectrum.

As the father of a boy on the spectrum with lots of experience with local special needs units in Co. Meath, I've never seen this high level of societal Autism in Ireland, ever.

I grew up in a working-class North Dublin suburb in the 1970's with over 4,000 people. Everyone knew everyone. The worst I ever saw was a kid in my class with Elective Mutism. Nobody in my locus had the type of extreme non-verbal autism that's becoming so prevalent today.

There's been fantastic research recently identifying over 140 'damaged' genes that are common to kids with Autism.

But this is only the start. I don't believe there's any "one-thing" causing it, there's no doubt is has to be a compound issue, but the politicisation of the issue isn't helping and closing down many avenues of research and debate.

ohnonotgmail

DublinWriter wrote: »

Interesting point. One of issues regarding Japan was that a lot autism was going undiagnosed because of cultural "mores", the same was true in other non-western cultures...

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/core-set-autism-traits-shows-diverse-cultures/

Even with DSM-V bringing Aspergers into the Autism-spectrum, the type of Autism I'm referring to is the total non-verbal, self-harming, un-toilet-trainable end of the spectrum.

As the father of a boy on the spectrum with lots of experience with local special needs units in Co. Meath, I've never seen this high level of societal Autism in Ireland, ever.

I grew up in a working-class North Dublin suburb in the 1970's with over 4,000 people. Everyone knew everyone. The worst I ever saw was a kid in my class with Elective Mutism. Nobody in my locus had the type of extreme non-verbal autism that's becoming so prevalent today.

There's been fantastic research recently identifying over 140 'damaged' genes that are common to kids with Autism.

But this is only the start. I don't believe there's any "one-thing" causing it, there's no doubt is has to be a compound issue, but the politicisation of the issue isn't helping and closing down many avenues of research and debate.

Because they were usually put into residential homes. well, abandoned is probably a better word

paul71

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/let-those-damaged-by-the-irish-asylum-system-tell-their-stories/

Ireland had the second highest rate of Institutionised population in the world after the Soviet union in the 1950s. Thats where our Autistic population was, stuffed into places like Portrane.

DublinWriter

paul71 wrote: »

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/let-those-damaged-by-the-irish-asylum-system-tell-their-stories/

Interesting read, but I'm talking about the 1970's, not the 1950's.

Even in the 1950's, 710 beds per 100,000 equates to 0.71% of the population.

Rates for diagnosed Autism are far, far higher than that now.

Considering that Autism was first defined in 1938, the study doesn't differentiate those with severe mental and physical handicap against those diagnosed with Autism. But yeah, let's throw them in the same demographic bucket because we didn't know any better back then.

Capt'n Midnight

paul71 wrote: »

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/let-those-damaged-by-the-irish-asylum-system-tell-their-stories/

Ireland had the second highest rate of Institutionised population in the world after the Soviet union in the 1950s. Thats where our Autistic population was, stuffed into places like Portrane.

Back in the day one way to inherit the farm was to get feeble minded parent committed.

AFAIK all it took was co signature with a priest or doctor.

And no need to pay for a retirement home either.

The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.

Big Gerry

4 Billion reasons why vaccines are not always safe.

ancapailldorcha

Big Gerry wrote: »

4 Billion reasons why vaccines are not always safe.

No, that's just a videodump featuring a far right, climate change denying Ayn Rand-obsessed crackpot. Feel free to post some evidence if you have any.

ohnonotgmail

DublinWriter wrote: »

Interesting read, but I'm talking about the 1970's, not the 1950's.

Even in the 1950's, 710 beds per 100,000 equates to 0.71% of the population.

Rates for diagnosed Autism are far, far higher than that now.

Considering that Autism was first defined in 1938, the study doesn't differentiate those with severe mental and physical handicap against those diagnosed with Autism. But yeah, let's throw them in the same demographic bucket because we didn't know any better back then.

it doesnt matter when it was defined. or are you trying to say that autism didnt exist before 1938? and perhaps the study didnt differentiate those with severe mental and physical handicap from those diagnosed with Autism because as a society we didnt. It was easier just to hide them all away.

ohnonotgmail

Big Gerry wrote: »

4 Billion reasons why vaccines are not always safe.

nobody has said that vaccines are always safe. Thats the reason they list side affects on the information leaflet. Even somebody as incredibly stupid still believes the benefits outweigh the risks.

Big Gerry

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No, that's just a videodump featuring a far right, climate change denying Ayn Rand-obsessed crackpot. Feel free to post some evidence if you have any.

Ah yeah so 4 Billion dollars was paid out for unsafe vaccines just for the craic.


I must be "far right" for pointing this out.

ancapailldorcha

Big Gerry wrote: »

Ah yeah so 4 Billion dollars was paid out for unsafe vaccines just for the craic.


I must be "far right" for pointing this out.

Pathetic. Nobody claimed that vaccines were 100% safe but of course the anti-vaxx brigade take this as an invitation to dump nonsense from any and every crackpot they can find.

Medication has side effects for some people. It's one of those things that everyone should know.

Big Gerry

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pathetic. Nobody claimed that vaccines were 100% safe but of course the anti-vaxx brigade take this as an invitation to dump nonsense from any and every crackpot they can find.

Medication has side effects for some people. It's one of those things that everyone should know.

But we are never told about risks.


Its always black and white.



Question vaccines and you are "anti vax".

ancapailldorcha

Big Gerry wrote: »

But we are never told about risks.


Its always black and white.



Question vaccines and you are "anti vax".

The "risks" are detailed in the patient information leaflet.